Flo's ABC album: stereo mix

[carlo]

It's my understanding that a stereo mix exists or existed of Flo's solo album for ABC. I remember in the early days of the internet, the Florence Ballard Yahoo Club was selling a fan-made bootleg CD of her album, before the official Spectrum CD came out, which was a mono mix. I am curious if anyone can confirm if the bootleg CD contained the stereo version of the album?

[RanRan79]

I can't answer your question Carlo, but I am interested in the answer. I have a copy of that bootleg from the old yahoo club days. I remember how excited I was to get it, and then the subsequent excitement of the official release. Anyway, I'm not knowledgeable enough regarding mono vs stereo to even offer a guess as to which the bootleg is.

I'm still waiting on some clarification regarding whether or not Flo's masters were actually destroyed in the Universal warehouse fire. Her name is listed among the artists whose masters were lost, but DFTMC has all of the tracks listed and I was under the impression that the music listed on the site were currently owned by Motown, which was said to be housed in a different location than the fire.

[RanRan79]

So a bit of further research: apparently the list of artists comes from a NYT series of articles and Universal has disputed this and also claimed the number is overexaggerated. If I'm also understanding correctly, in many cases, while the original master might have been destroyed, backups exist. There was more information but it's after 1am, so, yeah... Either way, whether Flo's masters are housed with the rest of Motown or not, all may not be lost.

It would really be cool if someday we were to get an expanded edition of the album. I have a list of what was recorded, but I think it's on a backup hard drive. I know there are alternates for "My Heart" and "It Doesn't Matter" because I have them. I recall that my list has an alternate for "Everything Wonderful" as well. And since the mono version of the album has been released, if the stereo version exists, that would be cool to have and maybe compare differences. Might give those sessions some new life, as they were very hit and miss in terms of quality.

[paul_nixon]

So a bit of further research: apparently the list of artists comes from a NYT series of articles and Universal has disputed this and also claimed the number is overexaggerated. If I'm also understanding correctly, in many cases, while the original master might have been destroyed, backups exist. There was more information but it's after 1am, so, yeah... Either way, whether Flo's masters are housed with the rest of Motown or not, all may not be lost.

It would really be cool if someday we were to get an expanded edition of the album. I have a list of what was recorded, but I think it's on a backup hard drive. I know there are alternates for "My Heart" and "It Doesn't Matter" because I have them. I recall that my list has an alternate for "Everything Wonderful" as well. And since the mono version of the album has been released, if the stereo version exists, that would be cool to have and maybe compare differences. Might give those sessions some new life, as they were very hit and miss in terms of quality.

If you knew how long and how hard I campaigned to get that Spectrum album released you would be amazed and that was at a time when releases were plentiful. You are more likely to get asked to dinner with Beyonce than get an expanded edition of the album - times have changed I'm very much afraid. It's difficult enough to get a mainstream release let alone a niche project such as one like this... Still you can dream

[carlo]

Thanks RanRan. I also remember Flo's masters being listed among the contents that were destroyed in the fire, but I seem to remember reading confirmation from Andy or someone else 'in-the-know' at that time, confirming that Flo's masters were not lost? I remember there was an alternate version of My Heart on Youtube at one time, which you already mentioned. There is also a first take of It Doesn't Matter How I Say It, which is still on Youtube. It's interesting to hear, but definitely pales in comparison to the released version. I'll dig up the link later.

Paul, I am certainly thankful for all of your campaigning and contributions to the Spectrum release. It remains to be one of my favourite items in my collection.

[floyjoy678]

Thanks RanRan. I also remember Flo's masters being listed among the contents that were destroyed in the fire, but I seem to remember reading confirmation from Andy or someone else 'in-the-know' at that time, confirming that Flo's masters were not lost? I remember there was an alternate version of My Heart on Youtube at one time, which you already mentioned. There is also a first take of It Doesn't Matter How I Say It, which is still on Youtube. It's interesting to hear, but definitely pales in comparison to the released version. I'll dig up the link later.

Paul, I am certainly thankful for all of your campaigning and contributions to the Spectrum release. It remains to be one of my favourite items in my collection.

I actually enjoyed the earlier take of "Doesn't Matter". It sounded jazzier and Flo sounded more like herself. I also liked the absence of the background vocals on that earlier take too.

[sup_fan]

i don't know that a stereo mix of this album would have helped. the music is just poor IMO. Flo isn't in her best voice and the material is just not fit to her range or style of singing.

[RanRan79]

If you knew how long and how hard I campaigned to get that Spectrum album released you would be amazed and that was at a time when releases were plentiful. You are more likely to get asked to dinner with Beyonce than get an expanded edition of the album - times have changed I'm very much afraid. It's difficult enough to get a mainstream release let alone a niche project such as one like this... Still you can dream

I seem to recall you detailing your efforts before. Didn't MCA[[?) write back that the album was poor quality or something along those lines? Anyway, your efforts are greatly appreciated as I ultimately enjoy at least half of Flo's album.

[RanRan79]

Thanks RanRan. I also remember Flo's masters being listed among the contents that were destroyed in the fire, but I seem to remember reading confirmation from Andy or someone else 'in-the-know' at that time, confirming that Flo's masters were not lost? I remember there was an alternate version of My Heart on Youtube at one time, which you already mentioned. There is also a first take of It Doesn't Matter How I Say It, which is still on Youtube. It's interesting to hear, but definitely pales in comparison to the released version. I'll dig up the link later.

Paul, I am certainly thankful for all of your campaigning and contributions to the Spectrum release. It remains to be one of my favourite items in my collection.

I have a couple alternates of "My Heart". There's also a couple alternates of "It Doesn't Matter". I actually prefer one of the alternates to the released version. She sounds more like the Flo we know, her vocal being more soulful, as opposed to, I'm guessing, the more pop direction of Flo's vocal that Kerr wanted the final product to be.

[RanRan79]

I actually enjoyed the earlier take of "Doesn't Matter". It sounded jazzier and Flo sounded more like herself. I also liked the absence of the background vocals on that earlier take too.

Same here. I didn't take into account the absence of the backing vocals, but now that you mention it, I think that also might make the alternates better. Anyway, if we were to get an EE of the sessions, having cleaned up versions of these alternates would be great.

[carlo]

I actually enjoyed the earlier take of "Doesn't Matter". It sounded jazzier and Flo sounded more like herself. I also liked the absence of the background vocals on that earlier take too.

Giving it a second listen now and you're right...she sounds more like herself in this first take. She is singing in her own natural range, whereas in the released version, they had her singing lower/deeper.

https://youtu.be/RzdxmfGJ67w?si=vEGaIe35_KAyYi8n

[woodward]

I seem to recall you detailing your efforts before. Didn't MCA[[?) write back that the album was poor quality or something along those lines? Anyway, your efforts are greatly appreciated as I ultimately enjoy at least half of Flo's album.

Here is what I posted nearly a year ago from my archives. I am copying and pasting it into this as I don't know how to tie in the posting from another thread without copying and pasting. This should confirm some details about it.

Here are the facts, courtesy of the Florence Ballard Fan Club. February 1988 issue.

In 1968, Florence recorded an album for ABC Records with the proposed title YOU DON"T HAVE TO. As thousands of fans waited in anticipation of its release, the album became a hushed topic. As her solo career went into a decline, the album became an abandoned project, never to see the light of day. This year marks the 20th anniversary of this unreleased album which now sets in the vault at MCA. This album was the crowning act of Florence's solo career. Great effort and love went into its creation. It meant a lot to her.

However, sentiment alone will not get the album released. A massive letter writing campaign must be started. I am setting this process in action by appealing to each of you to ask at least five of your acquaintances to write to MCA requesting the release of Florence's album. In turn your acquaintances should ask at least five of their friends and associates to do to the same. Letters should be addressed to Mr. Andy McKaie, Special Markets and Products, MCA Records, Universal City, CA 91602.


In the next issue May 1988 the following was disseminated.

I [Alan White, President, FBFC] have been corresponding with Andy McKaie of MCA Records as a result of the letter writing campaign to gain the release of Florence's recordings. The letter writing campaign, McKaie say, was a success in one level in that he finally listened to the FB ABC tapes. He goes on to state, "Unfortunately the reason they were never released was quite apparent--the recordings are not very good. In fact, the recordings are quite disappointing on every level, and I would recommend against MCA releasing the collection in tact. At some point in the future a song may be culled for a 'rare soul' or similar compilation, but that's as far as I would take it."

Alan then states that as an aside, he might mention that he has heard seven songs from the ABC recordings and they sound just fine to him. Apparently they do not measure up to MCA's standards for whatever reason. Meanwhile he called off the letter writing campaign at McKaie's request. He stated that all writers were wonderful in the great support given to the letter writing campaign. It was great team work and definitely made a big statement to MCA.

Moving forward, we can all thank Paul Nixon from the UK as Universal Music Operations in 2001 released a Spectrum label CD entitled The Supreme Florence Ballard. 544 517 2. If you don't have this CD, search and you shall get it.


Hope this helps. We all owed a debt of gratitude to Paul Nixon.

[RanRan79]

Thank you Woodward for reposting!

It's interesting to me that someone would have the unilateral decision making to deem an album of "historical interest" not very good or disappointing "on every level". Like I said before, I enjoy at least half of Flo's album, and think only one or two songs truly utterly suck. There are a couple of real gems cut during the sessions. Just goes to show how even subjectivity can get in the way of releasing material, apparently.

That being said, man, how I wish Flo had gone to Stax.

[sup_fan]

Thank you Woodward for reposting!

It's interesting to me that someone would have the unilateral decision making to deem an album of "historical interest" not very good or disappointing "on every level". Like I said before, I enjoy at least half of Flo's album, and think only one or two songs truly utterly suck. There are a couple of real gems cut during the sessions. Just goes to show how even subjectivity can get in the way of releasing material, apparently.

That being said, man, how I wish Flo had gone to Stax.

technically, i believe Andy and George and the rest have also done this. they purposely do not want to release material that might be viewed by people or detractors as "bad." something that doesn't show the singer off in a positive light.

some things might not have been completed. maybe the lead vocal was a scratch or sort of just a demo. the singer might only be trying to do certain marks or something and so not really "singing" as they would if they were really focusing on recording.

now i would find it fascinating to hear the evolution of a song or recording. maybe they tried something but it just didn't work out as expected.

but some would look at these as a means to put down the singer

[thanxal]

If you knew how long and how hard I campaigned to get that Spectrum album released you would be amazed and that was at a time when releases were plentiful. You are more likely to get asked to dinner with Beyonce than get an expanded edition of the album - times have changed I'm very much afraid. It's difficult enough to get a mainstream release let alone a niche project such as one like this... Still you can dream

Thanks for the hard work campaigning! I love that CD and burned a hole in it playing it when I first got it!

[RanRan79]

Thanks for the hard work campaigning! I love that CD and burned a hole in it playing it when I first got it!

Alright Al, what's your favorite songs on it?

[thanxal]

Alright Al, what's your favorite songs on it?

1. Goin' Out of My Head
2. It's Not Unusual
3. Love Ain't Love
Very difficult question, Ran. But those are right off the top of my head.

[floyjoy678]

Oooh are we doing a favorite Flo Ballard solo album songs? Here's mine:

1. Forever Faithful
2. Goin' Out Of My Head
3. The Impossible Dream
4. Love Ain't Love
5. My Heart

BONUS: Doesn't Matter How I Say It [[Earlier take)

While the album was lackluster and the quality was not what I was expecting, I was very excited when this was released on CD back in the day. Flo was, and still is, my favorite Supreme so I was able to overlook any flaws with the album. I was just happy it was finally released. Thank you to those who were able to make that happen.

EDIT: Also I wanted to add I remember being very shocked at how deep Flo's voice was on a lot of these songs. I kept thinking I was going to hear the same soaring soprano on Come See About Me or People.

[Ollie9]

I don’t like the album at all, containing weak cover versions that just don’t sit comfortably with Flo’s voice at all. There’s certainly nothing on it that compares favourably with the wonderfully raunchy “Ain’t That Good News”. Just my opinion.

[RanRan79]

1. Goin' Out of My Head
2. It's Not Unusual
3. Love Ain't Love
Very difficult question, Ran. But those are right off the top of my head.

I'm with you on the first one. Nelson George called Flo's version a superior cover of Little Anthony and the Imperials. Looking back, I'm not sure if he was saying Flo's version was better than LA and the guys, or if her cover version was the best of the cover versions. It would be hard for anyone to beat the original. "Head" is one of my favorite songs of all time. I don't believe I've ever heard a version I didn't like. Flo didn't disappoint me at all. Within a set of songs- her ABC sessions- where she sometimes came across as not her usual self, "Goin Out of My Head" was one of the ones where I think she sounds like the old Flo.

I'm not wild about "Love Aint Love", but I think it's a good song that had the potential to be a hit.

But you got me on "It's Not Unusual". I do not like Flo's version. Again, production can make or break a song. I would bet money that if Flo were at Stax, or Atlantic, or Brunswick, or Cadet, she would've rocked "Unusual". That backing track at ABC sucks, IMO, and Flo's vocal doesn't go anywhere that makes me ignore the track. To be fair, I'm not that crazy about the Supremes' version of "Unusual" either. I suspect if Flo did the lead on that one, it would have had a bit more life.

[RanRan79]

Oooh are we doing a favorite Flo Ballard solo album songs? Here's mine:

1. Forever Faithful
2. Goin' Out Of My Head
3. The Impossible Dream
4. Love Ain't Love
5. My Heart

BONUS: Doesn't Matter How I Say It [[Earlier take)

While the album was lackluster and the quality was not what I was expecting, I was very excited when this was released on CD back in the day. Flo was, and still is, my favorite Supreme so I was able to overlook any flaws with the album. I was just happy it was finally released. Thank you to those who were able to make that happen.

EDIT: Also I wanted to add I remember being very shocked at how deep Flo's voice was on a lot of these songs. I kept thinking I was going to hear the same soaring soprano on Come See About Me or People.

While we wait to find out if Carlo gets an answer to his question, I figure why not hijack the thread? I have a feeling he doesn't mind.

"Forever Faithful" is one of my favs too Floy. She really gets into it. I think it also had hit potential as an A side.

"My Heart" is my favorite of all the songs. Again, she sounds like the Flo I know and love. As producers, I feel Robert Bateman had the much better read on what to do with Florence. Part of that might be because he had known her and her talent for so long at that point. I know Kerr worked at Motown for a time, but I'm unaware of when, if at all, his path crossed with hers. He did say that working with her at ABC, he didn't think her voice had the quality it once did. So I don't know if that was based on any close proximity to Flo during her time as a Supreme or if he was familiar with her lead voice via the albums released. Bateman's couple of songs with Flo just come across leaps and bounds better than the recordings she did with George Kerr. However, "My Heart" is classic. I love that one. Played it to death.

But like Al's pick of "It's Not Unusual", your choice of "Impossible Dream" threw me off. Lol I don't like it. In another thread I said this about it:

While it's bouncy arrangement still could have worked for such a sentimental song, the track is missing any kind of warmth. And Flo's vocal isn't all that good until she lets go a little bit toward the end, but by then the bad taste is firmly in my mouth.

Yeah, that 'bout sums it up.

[RanRan79]

I also love "Like You Babe", "Sweetness" and "Everything Wonderful". There's a point in "Wonderful" where I felt like Flo should have taken it up several notches, and it feels like that's exactly what she's going to do, and then it falls flat. An alternate exists for it. If it ever sees the light of day, fingers crossed that it's like that alternate of "It Doesn't Matter", where Flo is much more soulful and "Flo" in her delivery. But as is, I still like the song a lot.

"Walk On By" is another one of my favorite songs of all time. I've never heard a version I didn't like, except...wait for it...Dionne's original. Lol Flo's cover ranks highly with me, although no one will be able to beat Isaac Hayes' version in my book.

[thanxal]

I know that "It's Not Unusual" is an... unusual choice. I like this track not because it is well mixed, background is excellent or that Flo's phrasing is great. None of those are true. I like this so much because I think this track beyond all others lets me hear her "raw" talent. I can hear her struggling with the phrasing and trying different approaches. I can also hear her accent/draw at several points. Others will prompt troll fights by asking if Flo could have been lead singer, but that's not the point. The point is to hear the raw talent of Mary, Florence, Cindy, etc. and wonder what they could have done with practice, coaching and refinement. INU let' me do that, which is why I like it.

[Ollie9]

Others will prompt troll fights by asking if Flo could have been lead singer, but that's not the point. The point is to hear the raw talent of Mary, Florence, Cindy, etc. and wonder what they could have done with practice, coaching and refinement. INU let' me do that, which is why I like it.

So if your of the opinion Flo didn’t have the chops to be lead singer your labelled a troll.
Having the right material was essential for Flo, as unlike Diana her voice simply wasn’t as pliant or adaptable to other musical genre’s.
I agree that given the training and right material anything was possible. Unfortunately, i don’t hear the potential in her voice singing the kind of songs featured on this album.

[thanxal]

So if your of the opinion Flo didn’t have the chops to be lead singer your labelled a troll.

Not at all. But you know that some people love to lead with that just to start drama.

[Ollie9]

Not at all. But you know that some people love to lead with that just to start drama.

I don’t mind a bit of drama, so long as it’s conducive to the point trying to be made.

[marybrewster]

It's my understanding that a stereo mix exists or existed of Flo's solo album for ABC. I remember in the early days of the internet, the Florence Ballard Yahoo Club was selling a fan-made bootleg CD of her album, before the official Spectrum CD came out, which was a mono mix. I am curious if anyone can confirm if the bootleg CD contained the stereo version of the album?

Is this the CD you're talking about?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22597629169...saAl_1EALw_wcB

I wonder how this differs from THE SUPREME FLORENCE BALLARD?

[RanRan79]

I know that "It's Not Unusual" is an... unusual choice. I like this track not because it is well mixed, background is excellent or that Flo's phrasing is great. None of those are true. I like this so much because I think this track beyond all others lets me hear her "raw" talent. I can hear her struggling with the phrasing and trying different approaches. I can also hear her accent/draw at several points. Others will prompt troll fights by asking if Flo could have been lead singer, but that's not the point. The point is to hear the raw talent of Mary, Florence, Cindy, etc. and wonder what they could have done with practice, coaching and refinement. INU let' me do that, which is why I like it.

I can understand that. For some, that might also be the appeal of some of those Barbara era Supremes songs, checking out how the girls find their way through certain songs. I might give "Unusual" a listen on account of your post. I hope I can get through it.

[RanRan79]

Others will prompt troll fights by asking if Flo could have been lead singer, but that's not the point.

I feel ya. It's a shame that discussing Flo's abilities has to be framed in a combative way. I started to delete my response in the other thread, thinking that my first instinct not to respond should have been the thought to follow. In the end I decided to leave it up, lone, or near lone, opinion it may have been.

[RanRan79]

Having the right material was essential for Flo

Which would make her no different than any other singer, including Diana. If it were not for HDH, we could very well be having a different conversation about Diana Ross, as in "what could have been", since prior to HDH her voice wasn't moving any sales forward.

[RanRan79]

Is this the CD you're talking about?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22597629169...saAl_1EALw_wcB

I wonder how this differs from THE SUPREME FLORENCE BALLARD?

It could very well be the back in the day bootleg transfers to this bootleg version of the official Spectrum release. How the person knows that it's stereo, I don't know.

[Ollie9]

Which would make her no different than any other singer, including Diana. If it were not for HDH, we could very well be having a different conversation about Diana Ross, as in "what could have been", since prior to HDH her voice wasn't moving any sales forward.

Neither was Flo’s, but that was more to do with the quality of the songs than the individual voices. I think most people would acknowledge that Diana had a light, lilting soul/pop voice that is adaptable to most musical genres. Flo didn’t, as for me her only album proves.
When performing songs in the vein of “Ain’t That Good News” she sounded completely at home, being why a label like Stax would have been perfect for her.

[thanxal]

Neither was Flo’s, but that was more to do with the quality of the songs than the individual voices. I think most people would acknowledge that Diana had a light, lilting soul/pop voice that is adaptable to most musical genres. Flo didn’t, as for me her only album proves.
When performing songs in the vein of “Ain’t That Good News” she sounded completely at home, being why a label like Stax would have been perfect for her.

Or Atlantic.

[carlo]

Is this the CD you're talking about?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22597629169...saAl_1EALw_wcB

I wonder how this differs from THE SUPREME FLORENCE BALLARD?

Prior to starting this thread, I had communicated with the individual who put this bootleg CD out and they confirmed it's a stereo mix that was made from the mono mix, using 'cutting edge technology'. So unfortunately it's not an original stereo mix of the album, which is what I am looking for. I've been told that the original stereo mix did exist, and it did circulate amongst fans at one point...but this particular bootleg CD isn't it.

I'm sure all of the copies of the original stereo mix are hiding in dusty attics, stolen by mafioso ex-boyfriends, lost on the sunken Titanic, etc., just like everything else.

[floyjoy678]

Isn't it sad? Somewhere there will be a niece and nephew cleaning out poor old Uncle Fred's basement, who preferred the company of men, and they're going to find the bootleg with the stereo mix of Flo Ballard's solo album...and just toss it in the trash.

Meanwhile a rabid Flo fan such as myself would sell my car to hear it.

[floyjoy678]

Does anyone else think the line in Forever Faithful, "won't you please come see about me", was a nod to her Supremes days?

[RanRan79]

Does anyone else think the line in Forever Faithful, "won't you please come see about me", was a nod to her Supremes days?

Lol Yes, I think it was.

[Ollie9]

Or Atlantic.

Indeed it would.