Dream Girl: My Life As A Supreme.

[Ollie9]

This could have made for a great and heart wrenching movie if allowed to include all those timeless HDH songs and featuring three strong actors.
Flo’s tragic rape and the groups encounter with extreme racism when touring the south would alone have made DreamGirls appear more a Disney production.

[BobbyC]

It would be fascinating if a Dreamgirl movie traced Mary's real feelings about Flo's ouster from the group, and then her view of DR's ascendance. If the producers are HONEST, this movie would be huge. If they turn it into nonstop Ross bashing, or moving Flo up to sainthood, it will fail.The real story is way better than fiction.

[sup_fan]

It would be fascinating if a Dreamgirl movie traced Mary's real feelings about Flo's ouster from the group, and then her view of DR's ascendance. If the producers are HONEST, this movie would be huge. If they turn it into nonstop Ross bashing, or moving Flo up to sainthood, it will fail.The real story is way better than fiction.

agreed - i don't think Mary's Dreamgirl book would be considered the definite source of content for the group's history. it's her perspective. naturally diana or cindy or jean or flo or berry or whomever might have different recollections on events. on top of that, others might remember things mary totally forgot. just like when i go back for Homecoming, friends bring up funny stories that had totally left my mind.

so the TRUE supremes story would require a merging of content from all of the key players.

[BobbyC]

Exactly, Sup. From the perspective of Mary! There's certainly enough books out there from which to sculpt a convincing story for a movie. I'd love to see a movie like this, but my gut says the time has passed. You never know!

[sup_fan]

Exactly, Sup. From the perspective of Mary! There's certainly enough books out there from which to sculpt a convincing story for a movie. I'd love to see a movie like this, but my gut says the time has passed. You never know!

hehehe imagine a big screen version of Viscountess Tonita Turner's book!!

[BobbyC]

I wish!! I want to hear the Flo character bellow "If you raise your hand to strike me, you'll draw back a bloody stump!"

[Ollie9]

Exactly, Sup. From the perspective of Mary! There's certainly enough books out there from which to sculpt a convincing story for a movie. I'd love to see a movie like this, but my gut says the time has passed. You never know!

I’m not so sure Bobby. Like you said, as long as Flo is not portrayed as being a saint and Diana a complete demon i think there’s still enough interest in the music to make such a movie worthwhile. It could perhaps be based upon Mary’s book.

[sup_fan]

I wish!! I want to hear the Flo character bellow "If you raise your hand to strike me, you'll draw back a bloody stump!"

i've used that with friends and coworkers lol to rousing laughter and success lol

[marybrewster]

agreed - i don't think Mary's Dreamgirl book would be considered the definite source of content for the group's history. it's her perspective. naturally diana or cindy or jean or flo or berry or whomever might have different recollections on events. on top of that, others might remember things mary totally forgot. just like when i go back for Homecoming, friends bring up funny stories that had totally left my mind.

so the TRUE supremes story would require a merging of content from all of the key players.

Neither was Otis' book, but a successful mini-series on The Temptations was based on his recollections.

I guess it's all about subject matter.

[Ollie9]

Mary’s Dreamgirl book would i think remain the best source of information regarding any serious movie ever being made of the Supremes being she was actually there.
Any such movie is unlikely to be directed by a starry eyed Diana Ross fan, but at the same time would need to be seen from all three women’s perspectives.
As such, based on Mary Wilson’s best seller Dreamgirl: My Life As A Supreme would be the best way to go.

[RanRan79]

I still consider Mary's two books to be the authority on all things Supremes, even with inaccuracies. Indeed, she was there and I'll take her word for most of it. It sucks that we don't have an autobio from Florence, nor do we have one with much useful information from Diana Ross.

That being said, any movie based on the first book would, IMO, have to focus and center on Mary. Any script that is going to be non-partisan could certainly use Mary's book as a source, but would have to be sourced by everything ever written [[Mary's books, Diana's book...for what that's worth, the book on Flo, JRT's books, and others) in order to give each lady her "true" story, as opposed to one lady's POV.

If a movie were made specifically about Mary and based on her books, I would thumbs down the idea of titling it Dreamgirl. The movie has blurred the lines of fact and fiction with the Supremes and it's best to create some distance. Perhaps naming the movie after the second book, Supreme Faith, would be the better idea.

[RanRan79]

I've seen this term floating around the forum before, but I've never understood it. Where in the world is the idea of a "Saint Flo" coming from? I'd wager that if there is one thing everyone in Supremesdom agrees on, it would definitely be Flo was nobody's saint. If anything, the sainthood is bounded about by the Diana fans vs Mary fans, each group portraying the other singer as somehow never having done anything or anyone wrong.

[Ollie9]

I still consider Mary's two books to be the authority on all things Supremes, even with inaccuracies. Indeed, she was there and I'll take her word for most of it. It sucks that we don't have an autobio from Florence, nor do we have one with much useful information from Diana Ross.

That being said, any movie based on the first book would, IMO, have to focus and center on Mary. Any script that is going to be non-partisan could certainly use Mary's book as a source, but would have to be sourced by everything ever written [[Mary's books, Diana's book...for what that's worth, the book on Flo, JRT's books, and others) in order to give each lady her "true" story, as opposed to one lady's POV.

If a movie were made specifically about Mary and based on her books, I would thumbs down the idea of titling it Dreamgirl. The movie has blurred the lines of fact and fiction with the Supremes and it's best to create some distance. Perhaps naming the movie after the second book, Supreme Faith, would be the better idea.

I agree that any film would be best seen through Mary’s eyes being she was actually there and the one who wrote the book. The three women’s minor squabbles could be left to one side, allowing the script to concentrate on more important issues such as Flo’s mental health, tour of the south, and perhaps Diana’s collapse.
Mary’s book really isn’t as negative as some have come to believe, being she refers to Diana’s work ethic and how they both tried to help Flo curtail her drinking.
I agree that Supreme Faith would be a much better title so as not to avoid confusion with the film musical.

[sup_fan]

I've seen this term floating around the forum before, but I've never understood it. Where in the world is the idea of a "Saint Flo" coming from? I'd wager that if there is one thing everyone in Supremesdom agrees on, it would definitely be Flo was nobody's saint. If anything, the sainthood is bounded about by the Diana fans vs Mary fans, each group portraying the other singer as somehow never having done anything or anyone wrong.

i think what they're referring to is the martyrization of Flo after her death. of course her death was tragic but people then tend to overlook her issues and problems. some fans just say it was cruel, evil diana that pushed flo to being an alcoholic and blah blah blah.

same with JFK. it you actually look and examine the accomplishments of his presidency, it's a mixed bag. but because of the horror and tragedy of his death, those are often overlooked when rating his time in office.

[Ollie9]

i think what they're referring to is the martyrization of Flo after her death. of course her death was tragic but people then tend to overlook her issues and problems. some fans just say it was cruel, evil diana that pushed flo to being an alcoholic and blah blah blah.
.

Do we know for certain that Flo was an alcoholic. Mary mentioned in her book that it only took a couple of drinks for Flo to appear unsteady, while Flo told Peter Benjaminson that she liked a few beers but no more.

[BobbyC]

Dreamgirl is the reason I got interested in Motown and the Supremes. I never saw it as DR bashing

[sup_fan]

Do we know for certain that Flo was an alcoholic. Mary mentioned in her book that it only took a couple of drinks for Flo to appear unsteady, while Flo told Peter Benjaminson that she liked a few beers but no more.

i'm certainly not a doctor or clinical psychologist. so i don't want to say "flo was an alcoholic" but my guess is probably. I don't know all of the various definitions of alcoholic. there's the stereotype of someone stumbling and just being totally incoherent. but there's also "functional alcoholic." again, i don't know what she was in a clinical term. clearly she had issues with misusing alcohol when she was in pain. the proof of this is she used alcohol during periods of very high stress and turmoil. like when she was on the flight to New Orleans and couldn't perform. or in Vegas when she went on stage drunk.

so not sure if this makes her an alcohol or if she was misusing alcohol

[Ollie9]

i'm certainly not a doctor or clinical psychologist. so i don't want to say "flo was an alcoholic" but my guess is probably. I don't know all of the various definitions of alcoholic. there's the stereotype of someone stumbling and just being totally incoherent. but there's also "functional alcoholic." again, i don't know what she was in a clinical term. clearly she had issues with misusing alcohol when she was in pain. the proof of this is she used alcohol during periods of very high stress and turmoil. like when she was on the flight to New Orleans and couldn't perform. or in Vegas when she went on stage drunk.

so not sure if this makes her an alcohol or if she was misusing alcohol

It was just that you mentioned Diana being accused of pushing Flo to becoming an alcoholic.
I think Flo was one of those people with an extremely low tolerance to alcohol. A couple of drinks and she was flying. She categorically denys in her interviews with Peter Benjaminson that she ever had a drink problem, but rather enjoyed a few beers.
It’s worth remembering that other than that final night in Vegas when she discovered Cindy’s costume, Flo remained nothing but professional when performing on stage.

[sup_fan]

It was just that you mentioned Diana being accused of pushing Flo to becoming an alcoholic.
I think Flo was one of those people with an extremely low tolerance to alcohol. A couple of drinks and she was flying. She categorically denys in her interviews with Peter Benjaminson that she ever had a drink problem, but rather enjoyed a few beers.
It’s worth remembering that other than that final night in Vegas when she discovered Cindy’s costume, Flo remained nothing but professional when performing on stage.

well, other than that time she was too drunk to even GO on stage

my diana comment wasn't meant to be literal. it was me parroting what the rabid anti-diana fans say about the situation.

in Dreamgirl Mary also mentioned that after the April 67 meeting at Berry's house where they decided Flo had to go, Flo ended up still working with the group. And Mary said it appeared flo was really just going through the motions. Although others have said that Flo was pretty glad to be given a second chance.

Also Flo's "job" was more than simply going onto stage. all of the pr, press interviews, photo shoots, rehearsals, preparing new music in the studio, etc was a massive part of it too. I don't have the specifics but again, mary and other books mentioned that Flo would often be missing and excused as having "the flu" or late or whatever. it's possible that she just skipped out or didn't bother. maybe that was because she was drunk, maybe not. maybe it was she was hung over. maybe she was just in a mood and couldn't deal with it. maybe she really was sick.

[Ollie9]

well, other than that time she was too drunk to even GO on stage

my diana comment wasn't meant to be literal. it was me parroting what the rabid anti-diana fans say about the situation.

in Dreamgirl Mary also mentioned that after the April 67 meeting at Berry's house where they decided Flo had to go, Flo ended up still working with the group. And Mary said it appeared flo was really just going through the motions. Although others have said that Flo was pretty glad to be given a second chance.

Also Flo's "job" was more than simply going onto stage. all of the pr, press interviews, photo shoots, rehearsals, preparing new music in the studio, etc was a massive part of it too. I don't have the specifics but again, mary and other books mentioned that Flo would often be missing and excused as having "the flu" or late or whatever. it's possible that she just skipped out or didn't bother. maybe that was because she was drunk, maybe not. maybe it was she was hung over. maybe she was just in a mood and couldn't deal with it. maybe she really was sick.

I don't consider there to be any rabid, anti- Diana fans on the forum anymore, though perhaps a few Diana never did anything wrong ones lol.
It’s not really fair to Flo to think she might have been drunk when absent through illness which actually wasn’t that many times in the scheme of things. I genuinely believe she was more prone to illness then either Diana or Mary.
I can understand how her being ill might effect the tightly run itinerary of the group, but I don’t think it fair to paint Flo in a less professional light as someone who veered from either being drunk to not actually caring when i truly believe she did.

[RanRan79]

Flo said she told her doctor when she was on the mental ward that she thought she was an alcoholic. The doctor told her that the amount of drinking she did didn't constitute alcoholism. It may have been more accurate to describe it as alcohol abuse. Where alcoholism is the body's- both physical and mental- need for alcohol, alcohol abuse can exist where there is no physical need for it, but the alcohol is also creating problems for the person. For certain, during Flo's time as a Supreme, that last year or last six months, Flo's alcohol use affected her life, creating problems for her as related to the group. George Kerr also remembered Florence drinking before or during recording sessions at ABC, and this could have impacted their working relationship, which wasn't very good.

Now whether or not alcohol use was creating problems for her during the 70s, I don't guess we know. There's the story via Mary of Flo being drunk at her house in California, and then calling her drunk on the phone from Detroit, but getting drunk twice or so doesn't a problem make. I don't know if we have any further information to be certain that Flo was an alcoholic at any time, or that she had an alcohol problem in the 70s. She may have thought she was an alcoholic because, as she said, she had a family history of it.

[RanRan79]

Some of that was Flo acting out. Both she and Mary claim that they were being told certain times for things like interviews only to find out that they were either given a later time in order to give Diana some time alone with the interviewer, or they would find that the interview was over by the time they arrived and Diana had done the whole thing alone. At some point, I can't remember if Mary said it or someone else, Flo's attitude was basically why go through the hassle if these are the games being played?

Gordy fostered an atmosphere within the group that just wasn't conducive to Flo being on her best behavior. That Supreme ship would have rocked a lot longer if he had done all he could to make Flo and Mary happy, rather than expect them to be good with his plans for one of them when they all had dreams and aspirations that they arrived at the company with.

[floyjoy678]

Some of that was Flo acting out. Both she and Mary claim that they were being told certain times for things like interviews only to find out that they were either given a later time in order to give Diana some time alone with the interviewer, or they would find that the interview was over by the time they arrived and Diana had done the whole thing alone. At some point, I can't remember if Mary said it or someone else, Flo's attitude was basically why go through the hassle if these are the games being played?

Gordy fostered an atmosphere within the group that just wasn't conducive to Flo being on her best behavior. That Supreme ship would have rocked a lot longer if he had done all he could to make Flo and Mary happy, rather than expect them to be good with his plans for one of them when they all had dreams and aspirations that they arrived at the company with.

I really can't praise Berry for this reason. He knew what he was doing and was a lot older than the Supremes. I don't think he's held accountable enough for the problems he created.

[Ollie9]

Some of that was Flo acting out. Both she and Mary claim that they were being told certain times for things like interviews only to find out that they were either given a later time in order to give Diana some time alone with the interviewer, or they would find that the interview was over by the time they arrived and Diana had done the whole thing alone. At some point, I can't remember if Mary said it or someone else, Flo's attitude was basically why go through the hassle if these are the games being played?

Gordy fostered an atmosphere within the group that just wasn't conducive to Flo being on her best behavior. That Supreme ship would have rocked a lot longer if he had done all he could to make Flo and Mary happy, rather than expect them to be good with his plans for one of them when they all had dreams and aspirations that they arrived at the company with.

Good factual post regarding what was actually going down at the time.

[sup_fan]

I don't consider there to be any rabid, anti- Diana fans on the forum anymore, though perhaps a few Diana never did anything wrong ones lol.
It’s not really fair to Flo to think she might have been drunk when absent through illness which actually wasn’t that many times in the scheme of things. I genuinely believe she was more prone to illness then either Diana or Mary.
I can understand how her being ill might effect the tightly run itinerary of the group, but I don’t think it fair to paint Flo in a less professional light as someone who veered from either being drunk to not actually caring when i truly believe she did.

completely agree - the forum is, for the most part, very well balanced. people might have differing opinions but the dialogs all tend to be quite civil.

of course when reading posts, you don't get to hear tone or sarcasm or inflection. please note that my replies to you haven't been intended to be stern or harsh

also completely agree that we don't know the reasons for flo's absences. nor do we really know how many there were. was this something the occurred weekly? randomly? no idea. was she sick? pissed off? depressed? avoiding work? drunk? again, don't know

what seems to be clear is her reliability was declining steadily. this was a super-high pressured job and there were millions of $ at stake. everyone [[flo included i believe) wanted the money riches and rewards of this experience. but flo was struggling to match the level of work as the others.

now we know there were a lot of details as to WHY she was coming apart. and today we would handle it differently. but unfortunately that wasn't the case in the mid 60s

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

The doctor told her that the amount of drinking she did didn't constitute alcoholism.

Back then, probably not. These days it certainly would.

Now doctors say only two drinks [[say a beer or a small glass of wine) per day and two days per week not drinking at all. Any more than that and you have a problem.

[jobeterob]

I don’t believe that drinking more than today’s guidelines necessarily makes you an alcoholic or constitutes an alcohol problem - but I think it’s very foolish for apparently intelligent people to drink more.

But I also can’t believe people smoke these days

I understand that it takes very little to turn your cells on to cigarettes or alcohol - and then your body requires it all the time

It’s a bad road to go down and those that reverse course are strong people who deserve support and congratulations

[floyjoy678]

I don't think Flo was alcoholic. I do think she used it to cope with her untreated mental problems which only made them worse. She talked about wandering the streets in a daze often and having mental anguish.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I thoroughly enjoyed Dreamgirl and it made me like Mary, Diana, Flo and Cindy even more since it told the story of their group.
I think a film and actual movie would be quite fascinating and interesting as I look at all of the group members and what their lives entailed.
We have Diana who had confidence in herself, was bit of a tomboy and extremely competitive to achieve goals and win. She also had her issues with her Father never really giving her praise for all of her successes. She became involved with Berry. She was under tremendous pressure from him and her own desires to succeed. Those pressures on herself also contributed to losing some harmony within the group.
We have Florence, who came from a huge family. She suffered a rape with caused her distrust people. She looked at the group as her group even when she was no longer singing lead. With Gordy pushing Diana, that lack of trust in people became evident with that turn of events. She spoke out, she lashed out and did drink. Her exile from the group and the multilayered reasons would be fascinating in a film.
We have Mary. Mary was born in Mississippi but moved to Detroit to live with her Aunt not realizing she was not her Mother, who later came to Detroit to reclaim her. Mary certainly must have felt abandonment issues so to keep peace in situations she rarely spoke out. Mary loved to sing and entertain and met Florence at a talent show. Florence later recommended Mary to sing in the Primettes. Mary was trying to reassure Florence to keep the peace in the group and not speak out. Mary had confidence issues related to being told she could not sing while Diana was chosen by Berry and Mary feeling that Florence was also an amazing singer. She later had stress and struggles when both Florence was fired and Diana left to go solo. Motown was never behind Mary so she tried to step up to keep it going. She entered an abusive marriage and dealt with Motown's indifference. Once she went solo, she was offered a contract to get her to settle a lawsuit. Motown released one LP filled with songs that were not suited for her talents and dropped her.
Then we have Cindy, who admired the group during her days with the Bluebelles. She was chosen to replace Florence. Flo was on probation and Cindy had to learn the group songs and moves with Mary just in case everything was going to come to a head with Florence. Cindy had to deal with becoming a member of a popular group, worrying if she would fit in and how she would fit in the dynamics of Diana and Mary, especially now that Florence was let go. It had to be awkward during such a tumultuous time in the group.
That would be just Dreamgirl and I think that kind of focus would be very interesting for a film.

[Ollie9]

I thoroughly enjoyed Dreamgirl and it made me like Mary, Diana, Flo and Cindy even more since it told the story of their group.
I think a film and actual movie would be quite fascinating and interesting as I look at all of the group members and what their lives entailed.
We have Diana who had confidence in herself, was bit of a tomboy and extremely competitive to achieve goals and win. She also had her issues with her Father never really giving her praise for all of her successes. She became involved with Berry. She was under tremendous pressure from him and her own desires to succeed. Those pressures on herself also contributed to losing some harmony within the group.
We have Florence, who came from a huge family. She suffered a rape with caused her distrust people. She looked at the group as her group even when she was no longer singing lead. With Gordy pushing Diana, that lack of trust in people became evident with that turn of events. She spoke out, she lashed out and did drink. Her exile from the group and the multilayered reasons would be fascinating in a film.
We have Mary. Mary was born in Mississippi but moved to Detroit to live with her Aunt not realizing she was not her Mother, who later came to Detroit to reclaim her. Mary certainly must have felt abandonment issues so to keep peace in situations she rarely spoke out. Mary loved to sing and entertain and met Florence at a talent show. Florence later recommended Mary to sing in the Primettes. Mary was trying to reassure Florence to keep the peace in the group and not speak out. Mary had confidence issues related to being told she could not sing while Diana was chosen by Berry and Mary feeling that Florence was also an amazing singer. She later had stress and struggles when both Florence was fired and Diana left to go solo. Motown was never behind Mary so she tried to step up to keep it going. She entered an abusive marriage and dealt with Motown's indifference. Once she went solo, she was offered a contract to get her to settle a lawsuit. Motown released one LP filled with songs that were not suited for her talents and dropped her.
Then we have Cindy, who admired the group during her days with the Bluebelles. She was chosen to replace Florence. Flo was on probation and Cindy had to learn the group songs and moves with Mary just in case everything was going to come to a head with Florence. Cindy had to deal with becoming a member of a popular group, worrying if she would fit in and how she would fit in the dynamics of Diana and Mary, especially now that Florence was let go. It had to be awkward during such a tumultuous time in the group.
That would be just Dreamgirl and I think that kind of focus would be very interesting for a film.

If ever a realistic movie were to be made of the Supremes, the main focus would undoubtedly be the tragedy of Florence Ballard and all that followed as opposed to anything else that occurred.
It’s now only Diana’s all revealing, intimate memoir that can lend a different perspective to events as they happened. I’ve pre-ordered mine already lol.

[BobbyC]

[QUOTE=jobeterob;790535]I don’t believe that drinking more than today’s guidelines necessarily makes you an alcoholic or constitutes an alcohol problem - but I think it’s very foolish for apparently intelligent people to drink more.

Thanks for saying this, Jobete. I think we can all agree that Flo was a problem drinker--by that I mean she drank to deal with anxiety and to escape reality for a while. She was not waking up with a good-morning-wake-up-cocktail every day. What I disagree with is that it has anything to do with being intelligent or not intelligent. Some of the smartest people on earth have had drinking problems. It is an emotional issue.

I haven't seen any evidence that Florence or any of the others were alcoholics in the true sense of the word as it is understood today. Flo didn't need alcohol to get up out of bed in the morning but she did need it when the stakes got high and she was experiencing some of the Motown politics she came to despise.

[Ollie9]

[QUOTE=BobbyC;790835]

I don’t believe that drinking more than today’s guidelines necessarily makes you an alcoholic or constitutes an alcohol problem - but I think it’s very foolish for apparently intelligent people to drink more.

What I disagree with is that it has anything to do with being intelligent or not intelligent. Some of the smartest people on earth have had drinking problems. It is an emotional issue.

Flo didn't need alcohol to get up out of bed in the morning but she did need it when the stakes got high and she was experiencing some of the Motown politics she came to despise.

Well said Bobby. To align alcohol issues with a persons intelligence shows a total lack of understanding or indeed compassion for what might drive any one of us into making potentially destructive or unwise choices at some point in our lives.

[jobeterob]

[QUOTE=Ollie9;790837]

Well said Bobby. To align alcohol issues with a persons intelligence shows a total lack of understanding or indeed compassion for what might drive any one of us into making potentially destructive or unwise choices at some point in our lives.

That’s what makes drinking so confounding - that very intelligent people get sucked down that road for one reason or another - it doesn’t take much

[BobbyC]

I'm a video game professional of 25 years so I work with very shy nerd types. My 40 YO friend Kevin cannot go through a fast food drive-through without having a panic attack. He is anything but dumb--but something EMOTIONAL is happening with him when he comes face-to-face with a human he doesn't know. On the intellect side, Kevin knows that the chance of any violent incident occurring in a MacDonalds drive-through is about zero, but those feelings come crashing through anyway. In Florence's case, she used alcohol to deal with life--it probably started as a bad, casual habit, but it grew into a crutch and made it impossible for her to actually deal with what was happening at the time. But was she an alcohol as we know it today? Not in my opinion. Just the fact that it was scandalous that she started drinking before performances tells you how rare it was. When it happened in the Rolling Stones a million times, nobody cared--it wasn't even a scandal. It was "cool."

[jim aka jtigre99]

I would have to say by the evidence that Florence Ballard had a problem with alcohol but was not an alcoholic. She used it as a way to deal with the pain of how Motown and Berry were treating her. She really was not able to handle the politics of show business and could not help but take it personal. It was more than the alcohol, she became outspoken, missed performances and talked back to those in charge. They were taking away her dignity and she fought back. It probably also hurt that Diana had been so focused on herself but then she needed to be with the pressures she was under with Motown and Berry. Mary tried to reassure her but Mary had her own insecurities to deal within the Supremes framework.
The Supremes drinking casually was alright but they were females of color at that time they had an image to uphold[[no matter how wrong it was) compared to white male rockers who were "bad boys".
Florence had a gift but so did Diana and Mary. The fact that she could not go on with her life was puzzling to both Diana and Mary. Mary found out how hard it was to go on when you had no one behind you [[unlike Diana) but both Diana and Mary seemed to have stronger determination than Florence, I believe Diana touched on this in her book.
But, yes, I would have to say Florence was not alcoholic but a problem drinker who became outspoken to the wrong people when alcohol gave her confidence to speak up and out.

[jim aka jtigre99]

I'm a video game professional of 25 years so I work with very shy nerd types. My 40 YO friend Kevin cannot go through a fast food drive-through without having a panic attack. He is anything but dumb--but something EMOTIONAL is happening with him when he comes face-to-face with a human he doesn't know. On the intellect side, Kevin knows that the chance of any violent incident occurring in a MacDonalds drive-through is about zero, but those feelings come crashing through anyway. In Florence's case, she used alcohol to deal with life--it probably started as a bad, casual habit, but it grew into a crutch and made it impossible for her to actually deal with what was happening at the time. But was she an alcohol as we know it today? Not in my opinion. Just the fact that it was scandalous that she started drinking before performances tells you how rare it was. When it happened in the Rolling Stones a million times, nobody cared--it wasn't even a scandal. It was "cool."

I am sorry that your friend deals with that. I know many people who have anxiety attacks when in public dealing with people. I worked in retail and banking and even some coworkers had that anxiety dealing with the public. I can understand it even if I am not wired that way because my positions were ones were I always tried to help.

[BobbyC]

Jim--I try so hard to empathize with friends like shy Kevin, but I don't really understand. For me to be anxious, there has to be a good reason, like seeing a doctor about test results, or talking to a lawyer about a lawsuit. Generally, I enjoy being around people and don't see them as a threat. But anyway, back to the ladies

[jobeterob]

I'm a video game professional of 25 years so I work with very shy nerd types. My 40 YO friend Kevin cannot go through a fast food drive-through without having a panic attack. He is anything but dumb--but something EMOTIONAL is happening with him when he comes face-to-face with a human he doesn't know. On the intellect side, Kevin knows that the chance of any violent incident occurring in a MacDonalds drive-through is about zero, but those feelings come crashing through anyway. In Florence's case, she used alcohol to deal with life--it probably started as a bad, casual habit, but it grew into a crutch and made it impossible for her to actually deal with what was happening at the time. But was she an alcohol as we know it today? Not in my opinion. Just the fact that it was scandalous that she started drinking before performances tells you how rare it was. When it happened in the Rolling Stones a million times, nobody cared--it wasn't even a scandal. It was "cool."

Navigating life is very difficult and we all have issues to face.

I think I have this bias like Diana had which is pick your butt up, work hard, get over it and help yourself.

But I understand not everyone can do it, not everyone has advantages and we all need crutches that can end up being problems

[Ollie9]

[QUOTE=jobeterob;790869]
I think I have this bias like Diana had which is pick your butt up, work hard, get over it and help yourself./QUOTE]

The thing being, unlike Diana Ross not everyone had the funds or can afford the luxury of having the time off work to book themselves into a Promises Rehabilitation Centre or jet off to the Bahamas for a month when dealing with their own personal demons.
It makes a difference.

[Roberta75]

OMG can we please let Florence Ballard rest in peace. She had great joy in her life and real great success and yes she had bad tragedy and issues in her life but who doesnt? Some people just want to victimize her but shes more than that and was and is much loved.

[jobeterob]

[QUOTE=Ollie9;790879]

I think I have this bias like Diana had which is pick your butt up, work hard, get over it and help yourself./QUOTE]

The thing being, unlike Diana Ross not everyone had the funds or can afford the luxury of having the time off work to book themselves into a Promises Rehabilitation Centre or jet off to the Bahamas for a month when dealing with their own personal demons.
It makes a difference.

True - agree; we all have biases.

[Ollie9]

It’s a worthy bias to have, but not necessarily when holding up the rich and famous as examples of fortitude.

[marybrewster]

OMG can we please let Florence Ballard rest in peace. She had great joy in her life and real great success and yes she had bad tragedy and issues in her life but who doesnt? Some people just want to victimize her but shes more than that and was and is much loved.

Good Lord, thank you Roberta. There is ZERO evidence to suggest that Flo was an alcoholic. If this has been a common occurrence, BG would have nipped it well before 1967. We all have that one friend that can't handle booze. Mary herself said it wasn't uncommon for the Supremes to have wine [[or champagne) before or after a show. Flo showed up or got drunk at a few performances and one party. You never heard any other stories. Let's not tarnish her legacy by calling her an addict. Especially if one of her daughters or family members should stumble across this thread.

[Ollie9]

Many of the posts regarding alcohol and drug addiction are pretty generic which i found rather interesting.
As regards Flo, whoever said she was an alcoholic go stand in the corner please. No supper for you tonight.

[sup_fan]

i don't think any of us have quite been taking this discussion of Flo drinking to be like a totally obliterated drunk. no one has tried to make her look like Suellen Ewing for god's sake lol



and we all know that all 3 girls drank, smoked. this isn't about basic indiscretions. Flo's drinking clearly had a major and serious impact on the group, regardless of if she was clinically an alcoholic or not. the fact that she was too inebriated to take the stage in New Orleans is a MAJOR incident with the group. and then to be onstage in Vegas and drunk is an even LARGER incident. Both of these were cataclysmic when it comes to the history of the original supremes lineup.

therefore the topic of Flo and her drinking is a major topic regarding the history of the group