Produced by Hardye Producing Company

[woodward]

I just noted that both the Tri-Phi and Harvey labels had all their releases produced by Hardye Producing Company. Does anyone know if there is any significance to Hardye Producing Company - surely the Har in Hardye refers to Harvey Fuqua but does anyone know if there is any significance to Dye?

I also just noticed that Harvey Fuqua, in addition to Tri Phi and Harvey labels also owned a gospel label entitled Message for which there were 3 releases. This was the first I had ever heard of the Message label.

Can anyone shed any additional light on this label?

[Graham Jarvis]

I have all 3 of the Message 45's I have also put them all on YouTube you can listen to all six tracks.
The Sensational Saints of Ohio is the rarest of the three.

[robb_k]

I just noted that both the Tri-Phi and Harvey labels had all their releases produced by Hardye Producing Company. Does anyone know if there is any significance to Hardye Producing Company - surely the Har in Hardye refers to Harvey Fuqua but does anyone know if there is any significance to Dye?

I also just noticed that Harvey Fuqua, in addition to Tri Phi and Harvey labels also owned a gospel label entitled Message for which there were 3 releases. This was the first I had ever heard of the Message label.

Can anyone shed any additional light on this label?

I've read, and been told that Hardye Producing Co. was owned by Harvey Fuqua and Gwen Gordy [[and a few people also mentioned that Anna Gordy was also a partner-but I I'm not sure about that). The "Har' stood for Harvey. The 'dy" may have stood for Gordy [[Gwen or Gwen and Anna) - maybe the "e" stood for Esther [[for their other sister, Esther, who later ran The Motown Museum)?

Message records was Hardye's Gospel label. I've seen a discography entry and label scan for a 4th issue, other than the 3 above, sung by a different group. In addition to Harvey, Tri-Phi and message, Hardye also operated HPC Records, which stood for "Hardeye Producing Co." It was notable for having Clyde Wilson [[AKA "Steve Mancha") as one of its artists. After Hardye was "Folded into Motown" in 1963, Wilson was given a songwriter's contract, and wrote songs for Jobete music, but not offered a singing artist's contract, so he left in 1965, to work with ex-Motowner', Don Davis, at the latter's Groovesville records.

[Graham Jarvis]

Robb
Message Records: Which one is number four? originally there was only two Message records. Later back in 2016 a 3rd "Message 45" popped up, it was the "Ohio" record on Youtube, at that time I lost out on buying it, however it was a beat up copy.

The other two are Detroit. I was so lucky then to obtain the third "Sensational Saints of Ohio" a Mint copy from Berry's Detroit basement.

Can you please give me the "discography entry and label Scan" for a 4th issue? I found the "Ohio" copy from Berry's Detroit palace that went up for sale. The new owner was then a Lady solicitor, she had also decided to sell everything when she came to selling her home that Berry had left behind when he sold his Detroit palace, she too it was also her time to finally clear the property.

Having left to California after a couple of years Berry then sold up. The solicitor had bought it early to mid 7T's.

I have all the photographs of the "Big Sale" Pianos, Artists Clothing etc, and 100's of Harvey's 45's Tri-Phi and all others. When Berry took everything over from Harvey Fuqua, everything then ended up in Berry's garage, in addition there was 12 mint copies in original sleeves "Saundra Mallett & The Vandellas" Camel Walk!. I met the guy who bought all 12 Camel Walk 45's [a number of the 12 records had damp labels which a slight touch of the label just disintegrated] and one or two other Motown 45's.

[DWSheffer]

Graham,
Not wanting to pick apart your story, but I wanted to clarify a couple things in your post, unless of course I'm misunderstanding some things. Berry Gordy maintained ownership of Gordy Manor until 2002 when he finally decided to sell it to lawyer Cynthia Reaves who he felt would take good care of the property, which she certainly did. She restored it to the beautiful condition it is today and maintained ownership until August of 2017.

The auction of the contents of the home was in October of 2017, which included around 600 45's that were stored in the basement. I've never quite understood why they were stored there, being BG moved in in 1967 and most of the titles were early ones. At any rate, I bought one of the copies of "Camel Walk" from the man who bought them at the auction. There were a total of 29 copies of "Camel Walk" found in an original box. Two copies were separated from the original box and placed in two separate lots. The other 27 were sold in one lot and purchased by a record dealer in Detroit. He said the initial starting bid for the 27 copies was $2500, but it dropped to $50 and went up from there. He subsequently offered all of those copies for sale, mostly on Ebay and each came with a COA [certificate of authenticity] from the sale stating they were formerly the property of Berry Gordy Jr. He told me approximately half of them had very compromised labels due to moisture, as you mentioned. Maybe the person you spoke with bought 12 copies from him but I just wanted to add these additional facts to the post in the case anyone is researching the subject in the future.
Darin

[mysterysinger]

According to 45Cat

MG1234 Dec 62
A Sensational Jubilettes Remember Judgment Day Writer - Lincoln Blankenship
B Sensational Jubilettes Jordan River Writer - Leroy Acklin


MG1235 Feb 63
A Sensational Saints Of Ohio Come On Writer - Rufus Anderson
B Sensational Saints Of Ohio Ain't That A Shame Writer - Winfield Grayson



MG1236 Apr 63
A Sensational Skylarks Of Detroit A Little More Grace Writer - Calvin Fair
B Sensational Skylarks Of Detroit A Sinner's Prayer Writer - Calvin Fair


For MG1235 - The only person, who has been confirmed as a group member on this recording is Winfield Grayson.

Other members are thought to possibly include Rufus Anderson, Jimmy Hughes, Israel Harris, Walter Deadwyler and Charles Chambliss, who as The Sensational Saints had a release in early 1966 on the Checker label [[catalogue no. 5015). Winfield Grayson also sang on that record.

Musicians known to have played on this release are:

Bobby McCaffiney - guitar,
Ray Kinniebrew - bass and
Stevie Wonder - drums

[mysterysinger]

And here's a link to a previous thread - funnily enough also started by Woodward - in 2012

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthrea...l-subsidiaries

[Graham Jarvis]

Darin, thanks for that.
You have more details on this than I can remember so thank you. Somewhere I have the whole number of Records and all of the Photo's for everything that was auctioned, I also had spoken to the auctioneer well before the auction, he had also sent me other details on dates times etc.
The one guy I was talking to had mentioned on Ebay weeks after the auction that he had twelve copies of "Camel Walk". [I already had a copy beforehand]

Two of the Message 45's I brought from the Detroit auction [along with other 45's], The Saints of Ohio ended up for sale in the UK which I picked up from there a year later, highly likely that it came out of the same Auction?

There is only know three MG copies, it would be fantastic if others turned up.
I have a copy of the 45Cat and really useful, the more that have an interest in such great gospel the better it can only be.
Graham

[robb_k]

Robb
Message Records: Which one is number four? originally there was only two Message records. Later back in 2016 a 3rd "Message 45" popped up, it was the "Ohio" record on Youtube, at that time I lost out on buying it, however it was a beat up copy.

The other two are Detroit. I was so lucky then to obtain the third "Sensational Saints of Ohio" a Mint copy from Berry's Detroit basement.

Can you please give me the "discography entry and label Scan" for a 4th issue? I found the "Ohio" copy from Berry's Detroit palace that went up for sale. The new owner was then a Lady solicitor, she had also decided to sell everything when she came to selling her home that Berry had left behind when he sold his Detroit palace, she too it was also her time to finally clear the property.

Having left to California after a couple of years Berry then sold up. The solicitor had bought it early to mid 7T's.

I have all the photographs of the "Big Sale" Pianos, Artists Clothing etc, and 100's of Harvey's 45's Tri-Phi and all others. When Berry took everything over from Harvey Fuqua, everything then ended up in Berry's garage, in addition there was 12 mint copies in original sleeves "Saundra Mallett & The Vandellas" Camel Walk!. I met the guy who bought all 12 Camel Walk 45's [a number of the 12 records had damp labels which a slight touch of the label just disintegrated] and one or two other Motown 45's.

Graham,
I'm not with my lists of wants by me and other collectors from the 1960s & 1970s [[wrong continent). So, I can't check my old lists. So I made the comment above from memory of 55 or more years ago. I googled Message Records, but couldn't find a 4th record. So, apparently, I remembered incorrectly that the new listing I found was different from the 3 known issues. Apparently I was remembering the finding and listing as a want, of the Ohio group's record.

[Graham Jarvis]

Robb
No problem at all, I got excited when you mentioned a fourth "Message" 45, so thank you as it really could get others more interested in some of the Gospel side, all 3 of the records both sides are on YouTube for everyone to enjoy.
Thank you.