Four Tops Question

[Optimal Saint]

A question that just popped in my head

In the late 60s Motown group changed to Smokey and the Miracles, Martha & the Vandella, Diana Ross and the Supremes

David Ruffin wanted similar treatment for the Temptations, didn't happen and the reason I always heard was [[Ruffin's temperment besides) the Tempts had more than one lead singer

That wasn't the case with the Four Tops

So 2 questions:

1. Was a name change highlighting Levi ever seriously discussed? I thought I had read that Levi was against it

2. If a change was made, what would they have called the group afterwards?

Levi Stubbs & the Four Tops? That wouldn't work, unless they brought on another singer there'd be three guys and wouldn't make sense

Levi Stubbs and the Three Tops? Makes sense numbers wise but no

Levi Stubbs and the Tops?

Once this question popped into my head I've spent way too much thinking about it

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

A question that just popped in my head

In the late 60s Motown group changed to Smokey and the Miracles, Martha & the Vandella, Diana Ross and the Supremes

David Ruffin wanted similar treatment for the Temptations, didn't happen and the reason I always heard was [[Ruffin's temperment besides) the Tempts had more than one lead singer

That wasn't the case with the Four Tops

So 2 questions:

1. Was a name change highlighting Levi ever seriously discussed? I thought I had read that Levi was against it

2. If a change was made, what would they have called the group afterwards?

Levi Stubbs & the Four Tops? That wouldn't work, unless they brought on another singer there'd be three guys and wouldn't make sense

Levi Stubbs and the Three Tops? Makes sense numbers wise but no

Levi Stubbs and the Tops?

Once this question popped into my head I've spent way too much thinking about it

I'll give you a "quick response" but others may come along who know better. From what I've read, this was never an issue and never was going to be an issue because Levi wasn't interested in it. I seem to remember reading that it had been discussed, some name change to spotlight Levi, but he wanted no part of it. I think that group really WAS a tight band of friends/brothers with absolutely no ego tripping.

[Roger Polhill]

Also as they were known as Four Tops without "the" in front. So it would have been Levi Stubbs & Four Tops which sounds dumb unless they included a new member.

[Spreadinglove21]

Four Tops featuring [[or Starring) Levi Stubbs?

[marybrewster]

I'd assume Levi and the Tops, or Levi Stubbs and the Tops.

[Roger Polhill]

Changing the names of those famous groups did not appear to have been successful as
the hits seem to dry up soon after. Martha and the Vandellas was a better name than Martha Reeves and the Vandellas imho. The record buying public were probably confused as who the members were.

[WaitingWatchingLookingForAChance]

Changing the names of those famous groups did not appear to have been successful as
the hits seem to dry up soon after. Martha and the Vandellas was a better name than Martha Reeves and the Vandellas imho. The record buying public were probably confused as who the members were.

You're oversimplifying things. The sales dropped off for Martha and the Vandellas, not because of a simple name change. There wasn't that much of a change anyway- just adding Martha's last name, which fans of the times would have known from fan magazines, and just being fans period. The sales dropping off had very much to do with the increasing difficulty of creating a hit for Top 40 radio. In the 50s and first half of the 60s, songs usually were built around the central theme of love- finding it, losing, getting it back. Once the Beatles hit, they started changing the game as far as writing more complex songs and music. Also you had Folk Rock, Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys, Psychedelic Rock, the advent of albums becoming more important- music was growing up and it was getting harder to find a spot on the charts. I read in a book about the history of Top 40 radio, even the DJs weren't always happy with the changes in music that were happening so fast.

Also, after Holland-Dozier-Holland left Motown [[which happened around the same time of the name change,) many believed that The Tops, Supremes and to some extent, Martha, lost the team that knew them best and came up with the best material for them. Without good material, the group would have floundered even if they had still called themselves Martha and the Vandellas. As it is, the group actually did well considering the fact that they and Motown were having to battle harder and more adventurous sounds that were changing radio. Not many groups made up of females survived the latter part of the 60s. The ones that hit big at first, Shirelles, Orlons, Dixie Cups, Ronnettes, Chantels- they found it harder to maintain continued success on the charts. Motown kept, not only the Supremes, but the Marvelettes and Vandellas on the charts regularly- and they did very well, hanging in amongst the harder rock bands.

[BayouMotownMan]

Any discussion of changing Four Tops billing would have been introduced from outside the group, most likely from BG. Each Top was devoted to the group even moreso than the Tempts were devoted to theirs. When BG tried to lure Levi into playing Louis McKay in Lady Sings The Blues, that was quickly shot down by Levi as it would have put the group out of work during the months of filming and promotion. This would likely have started Levi on a solo career because of the film's success. But the guys were having none of it. Their egos were purely into the group as a whole, not an individual.

[Sotosound]

We also have to remember that Lawrence Payton was also an occasional lead singer, and arranged the vocals for the group which, to my knowledge, was probably unique for a Motown vocal group.

You can hear Lawrence Payton taking lead vocals in "Do What You Gotta Do" and "One Woman Man". He's a natural tenor with a much gentler style than Levi Stubbs, but you can also recognise his vocals a mile away. Plus he sounds rather good.

The only Top who I've never heard singing lead is Abdul Fakir.

Perhaps the band should have been renamed as 'Levi, Lawrence, Renaldo, and The Top'.

[lyrie]

The only Top who I've never heard singing lead is Abdul Fakir.

Perhaps the band should have been renamed as 'Levi, Lawrence, Renaldo, and The Top'.

That's a really good one.

[rovereab]

For me, this answers the question very nicely!

https://youtu.be/OigC77F1xxA

[paul_nixon]

For me, this answers the question very nicely!

https://youtu.be/OigC77F1xxA

Great performance - wonder if there was ever a cover version There'll Always Be - Just Me

[theboyfromxtown]

We also have to remember that Lawrence Payton was also an occasional lead singer, and arranged the vocals for the group which, to my knowledge, was probably unique for a Motown vocal group.

You can hear Lawrence Payton taking lead vocals in "Do What You Gotta Do" and "One Woman Man". He's a natural tenor with a much gentler style than Levi Stubbs, but you can also recognise his vocals a mile away. Plus he sounds rather good.

The only Top who I've never heard singing lead is Abdul Fakir.

Perhaps the band should have been renamed as 'Levi, Lawrence, Renaldo, and The Top'.

Each member sings.....

[1382hitsville]

With Mary Wilson:

[Sotosound]

Each member sings.....

I sit corrected.

[gman]

I thought Duke sang some lead on It's All In The Game????

Maybe "Levi Stubbs Four Tops" would have been the best choice if there had to be one...Flowers to the entire group for being so successful and not ego tripping...arguing...voting a member out, or breaking up.

[MIKEW-UK]

It seems evident that Levi was only interested in being a part of a group of four brothers, Four Tops. Each member played an important role. Obie had interests in songwriting, including composing some of Marvin's What's Going On album.

Lawrence sang lead on a number of early motown tracks, eg Love Feels Like Fire. Motown allegedly pushed for Levi to be the lead vocalist anf front man.
As has been discussed, he continued to do the occasional lead even after leaving Motown. He had a very touching and empathetic delivery.

I do believe Abdul took care of business for the group which was an absolutely crucial part of their success.

Here's a lesser known track of Lawrence on lead.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JsIc1Mu-ucA