Just a chime....or??

[Jerry Oz]

I consider that if we don't know about how bad things can be, we cannot truly appreciate typical, non-bad days. Think about what prompted arr&bee to create the "Let It Snow" thread now that we're in the middle of summer. I use the worst situations as my baselines to consider everything else. So long as it's better than the baseline, I come out ahead.

[westgrandboulevard]

That's interesting. We must approach our days differently, I think. I actually use the best situations as a measure as, even if it turns out to be not quite the best day, it can still be a good one. If I were to give attention to 'bad' in any way, there is a strong chance the day will seem to wear that cloak throughout....

[Jerry Oz]

At the very least, recognize that a "bad" day is a bridge to a better one. The water can get choppy, sure. But your choices are simple: either you sink or you swim. At some point, you have to realize that if everything that came before was easy, you wouldn't find the value of holding on do tightly. But now that you've earned it, you might as well keep it.

[westgrandboulevard]

I'm thinking you may spend more time evaluating a mood more than I do, and are dealing more with a sense of good or bad...you may be more inclined to want to have something just right, so perhaps could be disappointed more times than I am....

I do seem to spend a fair time evaluating my thoughts, but which often come at random, and they have to be mentally filed, and quickly..but I don't think I'm affected by them enough to rate them as distinctly 'good' and 'bad'. That could simply be because I'm deep in thought myself, I suppose.....

[144man]

I suppose I'm in a bit of a rut, but it's quite a nice rut...!

[Jerry Oz]

I'm thinking you may spend more time evaluating a mood more than I do, and are dealing more with a sense of good or bad...you may be more inclined to want to have something just right, so perhaps could be disappointed more times than I am....

I do seem to spend a fair time evaluating my thoughts, but which often come at random, and they have to be mentally filed, and quickly..but I don't think I'm affected by them enough to rate them as distinctly 'good' and 'bad'. That could simply be because I'm deep in thought myself, I suppose.....

Not exactly. I've had enough rough days [[and spent enough time thinking about them) that now, it takes a lot to ruin my day. I'm more likely to get over rough patches sooner than I used to be because life seems like it's too short to feel crappy all of the time. My problem is that I tend to encourage others to get over their "bad" days and hard times, even though they don't seem to want to.

[144man]

Encouraging other people is a virtue. If they don't wan your help, that's their problem, not yours. You can't take responsibility for other people's lives or for things that are out of your control.

[Jerry Oz]

I know. I just encourage them to look into the future and ask themselves how long will it be before their present concern is forgotten. Usually, it's going to be forgotten in a few hours. That is evidence that it's not that important and certainly not worth all the calories being spent nursing it.

About half of them understand what I'm talking about and they get over it in short order [[an hour or so). The other half seem to register the idea, think about it, but then decide that they would be happier to be unhappy and maintain their current funk. As stated before, life is too short, so you might as well come off of that ledge and calm down.

[westgrandboulevard]

People, when unhappy, either quietly deal with it themselves, or wish to share their unhappiness.

When they share their unhappiness, they're looking for recognition, sympathy and understanding. Encouraging them to be more positive isn't what they want to hear, and they perceive it as veiled criticism or disagreement...and often shut up.

A much more elegant settlement than giving them a sharp, two word response, the second of which is 'off'......LOL

[Jerry Oz]

Gotcha. Some people want to have a pity party. The only time I try to lighten things is when they try to draw me into their gloom and typically, I don't want any part of that. So far as I'm concerned, "It's your party and you'll cry if you want to, cry if you want to, cry if you want to..."

[westgrandboulevard]

The best ones are those who listen to what is said to them, and who then make responses which lead me to feel they do appreciate a second opinion, and may very well consider any benefits it may have - instead of feeling [[un)happy enough just to sit doing nothing, dissatisfied and bored [[a horrible combination).

[Jerry Oz]

It's best to let them know that you care about them while not permitting their foul disposition to ruin your day.

[westgrandboulevard]

I must say that, quite often, not permitting their foul disposition to ruin my day, is paramount for me....

[Jerry Oz]

Really?! Well, now you've gone and ruined my day. I hope that you're happy...

[westgrandboulevard]

Well, you don't really think I have time to go around, just letting people know I care about them, do you...? LOL

If I did, there is a distinct possibility that they would have two people thinking about them [[me, and them).....and no-one thinking about me....

So no, wiser for me not to rush to play the role of Good Shepherd.....

[Jerry Oz]

If everybody knew that they were the only one invited to their pity party, then they wouldn't play the music so loudly... I'm just saying...

[westgrandboulevard]

Absolutely. I try to understand what it may be like to walk in their shoes, but also am aware that, if I were to look for sympathy and understanding from them, there's nothing on offer...

[144man]

You have to remember though that if someone gets to the stage where they are clinically depressed, there is not one thing that anyone can say to them that will make them feel better.

[westgrandboulevard]

That's indeed very true, but usually only at times....and clinically depressed people can still enjoy chat if it goes with a light touch, and maybe a laugh..they just don't need someone to make them feel worse....

[144man]

What they don't need is someone telling them to snap out of it.

[westgrandboulevard]

No, they don't as, whenever possible, they can do it themselves...and if they really want to.

Medication is much better than before, although getting off it can be tricky.

I've wondered sometimes if a depressive nature is linked to the compulsive, addictive streak which could be found in all of us to a degree , but which then gets out of control...

[144man]

Believe me, depression can happen to anyone. Mine happened at a specific point in my life, caused by a unique set of circumstances. Although it happened over thirty years ago, I still don't find it easy to talk about.

[westgrandboulevard]

Yes, depression does seem to happen to many people, at some time in their lives.

I've never been formally diagnosed with it, but have experienced periods of being aware of a 'lowered' response to what is going on around me. Also, a marked difficulty in making decisions, and getting on with things. A combination of tiredness and anxiety can trigger it.

The only way I can deal effectively with recalling bad periods is to imagine I was someone else and view it from that perspective....it sounds barmy, but can be effective...but at times can take a lot more in nervous energy than it is worth...LOL

[Jerry Oz]

Feeling as if the walls are closing in on you is a commonly shared human experience. Unfortunately, that feeling is compounded when a succession of troublesome events occurs in a short time. It's worse when the person doesn't know to seek help and cannot correct the downward spiral. As it's been stated, perception is reality, so when even the shadows threaten to overtake you, nobody can convince you that they won't. Very frightening.

[westgrandboulevard]

It is particularly prevalent among sensitive, intelligent people. Couple that with some introversion, and it becomes a real problem for the sufferer.

The hard part is that it becomes incumbent on the sufferer to deal with it, and live with it, with or without medication. Once that is accepted, the depressive person has the option of fashioning their nature to accommodate the ever-present threat, and even turning it into something which is positive for them. The worst they can do is accept it, and leave it at that.

[Jerry Oz]

Sadly, others may be inclined to withdraw from that person, further isolating them and further enabling that depressive state. Now there's nobody there to suggest that they "snap out of it" [[which, as previously stated, won't help) or talk with them about how they can. Many have gone through it and most of us have come through, so it can benefit someone to learn that the problem is correctable. In severe cases, it may take medication to get through it but in other situations, it may be a sympathetic ear and strategically silent mouth that helps them out. If they talk enough, they just might be able to figure it out. It sometimes helps to know that someone else cares, though.

[westgrandboulevard]

Yes, I'd say a good friend or two and/or someone who can help them with another perspective, can prevent a 'bad patch' becoming a chronic condition. That is, if they are available, at the right time - and the depressed person is able to at least considered tand then embrace the shared information.

Sometimes, we need more than just to listen to our favourite music. We need to believe in ourselves, without any undue over-compensation, and to establish an ever-present default level of self-esteem as a cushion.

Beyond that, medication can help. People seem to fall into two categories : those who hope and trust that the medication alone will solve the condition [[I don't believe it does, it assists by masking it)- and those who resist it as much as they can.

[Jerry Oz]

I'm unclear on how anti-depressants work. I have seen situations when people feel well enough that they think they can forego the medication, only to have a significant relapse in their condition. I suppose it replaces some chemical that is out of balance or provides a symptomatic relief. I knew a woman who went from being vibrant and well-adjusted to being extremely paranoid [[to the point of hearing voices behind the walls and also accusing everyone at work - including her husband - of doing drugs and talking about her) in the span of a couple of years. When she eventually had a near-total nervous breakdown, her doctors failed to prescribe the correct chemical cocktail to bring her close enough to being normal that she could return to work. It was very sad.

[westgrandboulevard]

I'm not totally clear either, both on how anti-depressants work, or how depression is caused. It seems that serontonin levels in the body may become unbalanced, which is likely to trigger depression. Whenever this occurs, I'm unsure if that is something which automatically affects everyone , or only selected individuals, and also if those affected are able to limit the effects, if not overcome them, by their own mental outlook.

[Jerry Oz]

I've had sporadic bouts of paranoia that seemed to abate after eating a good lunch. Not to make light of it, but I literally had spells in which I could see nothing positive facing me later in the day and after eating, everything seemed to be much more reasonable. Even to the extent that I wondered why the situation was ever worth my concern, let alone worth totally spazzing out. I always supposed that there's some chemical that must have been influenced by some missing nutrient, but I never looked deeply enough to find out. I would hate to live with that feeling 24/7.

[144man]

I had PTSD followed by neurasthenia. If I had recognised how much the traumatic event had affected me, I would have been able to get help in coping with this and the stressful events that followed which caused my breakdown, and been able to prevent it from happening.

Eventually, I was prescribed tranquilisers, and they didn't do me the slightest bit of good. I changed doctors and was switched to anti-depressants which did help me. Eventually at a consultation, the doctor told me he was thinking of reducing my dose, but not to do it by myself. I decided to go cold turkey, and that was when I really started to get better, because I had accepted that the problems were in my mind, I had to deal with them, and the pills were now preventing me from doing so. It took me about a year before I was completely back to normal, but I never needed to go back to the doctor, and I believe I ended up a lot stronger mentally than I was before.

I don't advocate that anyone should stop taking their pills, but it worked for me. They are a useful short-term stopgap in the treatment of depression, but they don't solve the root causes of the problem.

[westgrandboulevard]

144man, that's exactly the experience I have had when discussing virtually the same situation with friends. Learning all the details of their experiences made me certain that self-understanding is essential when faced with an unusual set of circumstances.

As part of my personality, I can become intensely absorbed in something which interests me . Sometimes that can be of positive benefit [[eg.Word Association thread) but negative stress when there is just too much information in total during a day to deal with. I've found the best way to deal with it is to set myself an ideal standard of default response or set of tasks in a day, which overcomes any moody or early morning 'yuuuk' feelings, as it then represents positive progress by the end of each day. If I let the negative prevail, I would not achieve nearly as much.

Jerry, assuming you have been tested and found not to have diabetes, what you describe sounds like a classic case of variable blood sugar problem. In short, you burn out quickly, which affects your thinking and verbal responses. At least, that's what happens to me.,if not addressed. I've simply reorganised myself to a default feeding programme each day, so I then become aware when I'm moving in a danger zone and can correct it. It has made such a difference. At 64, I can still work a whole day from 7 in the morning , and go to bed around midnight, without any snoozes [[although I'm still tempted at times...LOL.)

[Jerry Oz]

You are probably correct. Fortunately, I have been checked and I don't have diabetes. My folks developed it in their 60s, so I'll have to keep an attentive eye on it. I'm glad to hear 144man's testimony. I never figured out which situations are the result of traumatic events and which are the results of physiological changes in the brain. The employee that I referenced earlier lost something chemical that she needed and, according to get husband, doctors have no hope that she will ever be well again. She hates taking medication and when she falls to take it on time, she quickly reverts to her paranoid state. I can easily imagine her hurting herself out others when she's like that.

[westgrandboulevard]

It sounds as if her troubles are not rooted in depression alone. Must be extremely difficult, in several ways, for her husband to bear.

[Jerry Oz]

Very much. They actually divorced but stayed together during her darkest days. Had he left her, I shudder to think what would have happened to her. She alienated the son that dotes on her and the other one feels as if the world [[and his mom) owe him something, so he is not offering any support. And her siblings are a cabal of negative-thinkers who are ethically-challenged, so it would surprise nobody for them to use her disability to their financial advantage. Her husband has his own issues, but he has been there for her when many [[most?) men would have given up long ago.

[westgrandboulevard]

Their perception of normal family life must be so much different from the rest of us....

[Jerry Oz]

And that's exactly why I never socialized with my direct reports away from work. Everything that I ever knew about them was freely offered because they trusted me to listen, keep their private lives private, and only offer advice if it was desired. But it frightens me to consider who they were when they left the workplace. Every so often, evidence trickled in that made thank God that I have the best family and best wife in the world...

[144man]

I have the best family in the world individually. Put them together and what do you get...?

[westgrandboulevard]

I would say the same of my family. Put them together, and they tend to neutralise their demeanour, in an effort simply to be polite people, resulting in hybrid behaviour.

All groups are made up of individuals, and I've always taken an interest in the characteristics of each individual. Actually, I do prefer one-to-one or small group relationships.

Individuals can be lovely..but 'people' can be quite different. Groups are only as good as their weakest members.

[Jerry Oz]

That's true. But I'm blessed to say that my immediate family is wonderful when we get together at holidays or for dinners. No axes to grind or bury and memories inevitably we take trips down Memory Lane. Even my brother, who was my chief tormentor and wannabe motivator, is my best friend. The only thing missing is my eldest brother who lives two time zones away and only visits once every couple of years.

[westgrandboulevard]

My family members[[there's quite a large extended family) generally only get together en masse for necessary gatherings such as births, weddings and farewells.

The rest of the time, they keep in touch while doing their own thing. Just as I am, right here...

[Jerry Oz]

Our problem, which probably keeps us out of typical family drama, is that we're all to busy in our day-to-day lives to stay in constant contact. We all live within 10 miles of each other and can drop what we're doing to help within minutes but we have separate lives for the most part. I'm not really proud to say that, but it has worked for us and I'm comfortable with it.

[westgrandboulevard]

I must say that, IMO, I think that's not a problem and, in fact, really the best solution...and the way I prefer it. Space to be alone, but someone to turn to.....

[Jerry Oz]

I know you're right. I moved away for a year in the '90s and missed my folks. Little things like missing my nephew's first birthday party seemed to be more important when I want there to enjoy them.

[westgrandboulevard]

My three nephews [[and also a niece by marriage) are on Facebook, as am I.

My sister good-humouredly says she often knows what they may be doing only by looking on Facebook.

They all know how to contact me, but I hear directly from them only occasionally, probably because we don't see each other, as there is quite a geographical distance between us. So, they have their lives, and I have mine.

At least we do get along OK. I meet people who don't hear from their own children, even at Christmas.

[Jerry Oz]

That's sad. There's so much that goes unsaid between people who love[[d) each other. Sometimes, that leads to decades of enmity and broken hearts. It can all be worked out...

[westgrandboulevard]

That's what I think...but there must be more to it than we can know, mustn't there....

People who are related by blood will always remain that way, but no relationship is destined to last forever. Best to let go. Who knows, they may meet again in better circumstances, later in their journey.

[Jerry Oz]

Pride goes before the fall. It never ceases to amaze me when you have friends/family members suing each other over unpaid loans or other shady actions on syndicated "court" television shows. Typically, they needed money and they could get it from nobody else besides the person suing them in "court" that day.

Does it not dawn on the defendants that they have effectively cut off their last hope should they get in financial difficulty again? And the fact that everybody else turned them down reveals a trend that lets you know that they are 100% guaranteed to get into financial trouble again. Probably soon. Why do that to somebody, especially a loved one?

They usually reflect an indignant disposition, as if the other person is greedy for wanting their money back. From my standpoint, I don't lend money that I cannot afford to lose because I value the relationship more than the loot. But, if they fail to pay me back, they won't get anything more from me. Ever.

[westgrandboulevard]

Makes me think of that old Shakespearean line from 'Hamlet', now well out of fashion : "never a borrower nor a lender be".

[Jerry Oz]

There's a reason some people need co-signers. It's because they have bad credit due to non-payment of bills or the inability to prove that they are capable of maintaining new debt. If we're not friends because I won't extend myself to someone who maintains a perpetual inability to pay their bills, then I guess we weren't friends to begin with.