Just a chime....or??

[Jerry Oz]

Ahhh... But that is just it: I don't wish to find out that I or either of us is the favorite. We just probably feel as though we are. I would feel horrible if Mom or Dad told me that I was their favorite. I love my siblings too much and respect my parents too strongly to want to know that it is me. As I said, I am literally proud to be the least of us because I put them all before myself.

[westgrandboulevard]

I'm not sure that I can agree when you say that being third and youngest, makes you 'least', Jerry.

So don't forget that 'the last shall be first' , as they are, in certain circumstances. Good old life is a great leveller.

It's also a bit of a lottery, throwing chance and luck at us every single day

[Jerry Oz]

I'm the least because I find in them qualities that I aspire to possess, not so much because of birth order. I simply refuse to consider that I'm sure they might have a similar opinion about me, but as long as I see their strengths, I can strive to be like them in that regard. And after I feel that I'm like them in that regard, I'll always find some other quality to emulate. I'm the least because I choose to lift them up. As a result, I find myself living a better life as tribute to them [[and Grandma). I live my life by the premise that he that is last shall be first; I'm pleased to see the reference in your post.

[westgrandboulevard]

I'd say modesty is much more attractive in people than an over-inflated ego, especially when real talent is evident. Our fortunes can change all too rapidly.

The only thing where we may differ is to make the most of yourself here on earth, not simply puting others ahead. Of course, making the most of oneself should not involve stepping on others simply to make progress .

That said, yes, always better to be one of life's givers than one of life's takers. That way, you undoubtedly have far more choice on where to give your love , and a lot less competition

[Jerry Oz]

I think we should all find reasons to do the right thing. If it's not to shame yourself before a loved one, why not? Or better yet, if it's to attain greatness to make them proud, do that. It doesn't always work, however, as the example of Marvin Gaye and his dad can illustrate. With that being said, do your best for yourself and if that's not good enough, do it for someone else.

I'm amazed at the shamelessness of people in our modern age. All manner of selfish and amoral behavior is highlighted at an alarming rate. Soon, nothing will shock us anymore. Yet, with that being said, I often ponder something that a co-worker once said that haunts me: I'd hate to think of what I might do if not for the constraint of law. "Law", for my use, is anything that gives pause by providing negative consequences for my actions, not just the legal system.

[westgrandboulevard]

Although I think I made a remark recently, I might as well repeat it : a lot of people are only as honest as they need to be without being caught.

I agree with you that there are many who are not self-regulating. If their lifestyle involves relatively trivial matters which rebound only on them, and have as much to do with moral ethics as anything else, I suppose I should mind my own business.

Take away the constraints of the law, and I do start to ponder my vulnerability. Add to that how I might feel when I'm becoming more frail, and it starts to become distinctly worrying.

Our mutual discussions here seem to involve ideals, which at the least is looking to higher things, and I do believe in the goodness of most people.

However, if the time were to come when we find ourselves obliged to face unruly individuals who do not share the same views, because they do not understand them, or wish to do so, and these individuals begin to form into groups, we shall be in trouble.

[Jerry Oz]

Ah, and to your last point, that seems to be the direction of the world. After centuries of imperialistic pursuits, the world's powers are finding themselves the victims of other, perhaps more dangerous groups willing to stop at nothing to prove their point. How else would you determine "pro-life" groups sanctioning the murder of abortion doctors? How else would you consider allegedly fundamentalist religious groups who believe you can use a bomb to make someone love God? Why is it possible that baby dolls containing bombs were dropped on school yards during conflicts in various parts of the world? We are indeed in trouble.

Think about it: Christians? Catholics vs. Protestants on Northern Irish streets. Muslim? Shia vs. Sunni all over the world. Americans? Conservatives and Progressives willing to run the country into foreclosure based on philosophy. Consensus is an afterthought for so many of us. Progress is halted due to the fact that for many [[not most, thank God) of us, progress can only go in one direction and if that means dissenters are dragged along, then so be it.

I bet the people who scattered away from Babel would look at the world today and wonder why these people make them look like the absolute picture of order and harmony. Another reason that I'm glad to be a Boomer is the fact that I don't want to see what our world becomes in the next 100 years.

[westgrandboulevard]

I'm all for being positive,but it is concerning to consider that many who are alive in this world in the next 100 years will feel it to be a wonderful place......

[moe]

Ah, and to your last point, that seems to be the direction of the world. After centuries of imperialistic pursuits, the world's powers are finding themselves the victims of other, perhaps more dangerous groups willing to stop at nothing to prove their point. How else would you determine "pro-life" groups sanctioning the murder of abortion doctors? How else would you consider allegedly fundamentalist religious groups who believe you can use a bomb to make someone love God? Why is it possible that baby dolls containing bombs were dropped on school yards during conflicts in various parts of the world? We are indeed in trouble.

Think about it: Christians? Catholics vs. Protestants on Northern Irish streets. Muslim? Shia vs. Sunni all over the world. Americans? Conservatives and Progressives willing to run the country into foreclosure based on philosophy. Consensus is an afterthought for so many of us. Progress is halted due to the fact that for many [[not most, thank God) of us, progress can only go in one direction and if that means dissenters are dragged along, then so be it.

I bet the people who scattered away from Babel would look at the world today and wonder why these people make them look like the absolute picture of order and harmony. Another reason that I'm glad to be a Boomer is the fact that I don't want to see what our world becomes in the next 100 years.

You must be reading my mind, Jerry!!

[Jerry Oz]

I'm all for being positive,but it is concerning to consider that many who are alive in this world in the next 100 years will feel it to be a wonderful place......

I'm too old because every so often [[as seen from my fear-filled rants), I do forget that the world is indeed a wonderful place. As Lou Rawls sang beautifully: "What's the matter with the world, has the world gone mad? Nothing's wrong with the world; it's just the people that's in it."

And to that point, we cannot let the scariest rung of the human ladder be the one that we stand on. As I can attest from this thread alone, there are many beautiful and intelligent people out there. I am grateful to be able to converse with you guys... I wish we'd encountered each other years ago.

[westgrandboulevard]

That's a very nice sentiment Jerry, and likewise from me.

One thing to consider : we are the modern day equivalent of penfriends, but now also sharing with others. I don't believe we could have had the opportunity of exactly the same level of communication and responses years ago - so that's what makes what we have here to be current, and special.

It's of 'today', and makes a nice counterbalance to the subject matter of many of the other threads, all of which I enjoy, but which also address themselves to 'yesterday'.

[moe]

What I like about this thread is the freedom to express freely. There are no "my feelings are correct...yours aren't." But you both express what I feel and that's probably the reason you get such short postings from me. Intelligent conversation. Boy, what ever happened to it? Well, I thank you for this.

[westgrandboulevard]

Oh yes, moe, [[and thank you, too )I know exactly what you mean when threads veer off on a tangent of "my feelings are correct...yours aren't".

I remember how that behaviour was quite common practice at school and, whenever I'm aware of it now, I still regard it as something which represents a retrograde step back to the playground.

I remember I could become quite intimidated in situations where the louder, more extroverted ones would raise their voices, especially if I knew that my basic convictions were not in agreement, but also that I hadn't quite got my thoughts together on the subject. But that's bullying isn't it and, somehow, we all had to learn to negotiate around it - and look out for it, to this day.

This thread seems to be about common sense, and is an effective platform for mutual support, even counselling. At the moment, there's more going on in my life than I can hardly manage, so there's no shortfall in it. However, I have a feeling that, if my circumstances were to change negatively, I could venture to express any uncertain, bothering feelings here - and I know that would be of great comfort.

I have to say it does seem somewhat of a contradiction to express deeper, very personal thoughts [[which in person I'd be disinclined to do) in an impersonal medium such as this forum, but it's good for all of us to get the thoughts out - to express ourselves.

It's obvious to me that Jerry thinks and feels on a very much deeper level than I, and in some ways I admit I feel pushed when it comes to making a response, almost as if I feel the need to rise to the challenge. I'm then quite surprised at what does come from my fingertips - so swiftly that I'm hardly aware of it. So the exercise is teaching me something, and I'm learning from it - so I'm happy about it

[Jerry Oz]

I once debated with a classmate the relative "fakeness" of people who post things on line that they would never say in person. I posited that they could bully and belittle someone with impunity, so that showed them to be something other than who they truly are. I conceded the debate when he made the point that since there is no constriction or repercussions for expressing their feelings in an anonymous forum, the avatar and screen name reveals the very nature of the poster. Consequently, that is the real person saying those evil words and behaving in that reprehensible fashion. He was 100% right.

[westgrandboulevard]

I could understand that shy people might make positive online comments which they would otherwise be too shy to say in person - but I take your point about the hostile approach, irrespective of the name being used. It does sound quite logical.

Their own unhappiness - it must be the one thing these mean people wish to share.

[Jerry Oz]

I've been known to use my words in a very pointed manner when people bug me. When I feel someone is taking a personal and low shot at me, I can be quite harsh and wind up apologizing quite often for countering verbal spit wads with relative H-bombs. [[I am working on it...) But, with that said, I honestly will not say something on the web that I am not willing to say to anyone's face. How cowardly that would be. But, cowardice is the essence of a bully.

[westgrandboulevard]

Yes, words spoken in person might be spoken in anger - and which may then need to be followed by an apology as soon as possible. An unguarded, spontaneous remark which bears no inherent anger or malice can also be misinterpreted.

Online, there's still the possibility of a misunderstanding, but I'm inclined to think there's plenty of time to think about the best way to make a point, before hitting 'send' in anger.

[Jerry Oz]

I read my work e-mails as many as three times before sending. Thankfully, I've deleted most of the ones that should never be sent. I have the capacity for being passively aggressive, so when someone irks me in a conversation, I plant what my brother calls "seeds of anxiety". On the surface, it may not sound like much. But between the other person and me, the understanding is clear and it can manifest itself in hurt feelings immediately or over the course of days. It's highly inappropriate behavior on my part... Think of it like a Jedi mind trick, if you will.

I honestly don't think I've done it for years, but I know that the mean streak is still there. I think it's more unsettling because 98% of the time, most of my acquaintances know that I'm a good guy. It's hard to find that nerve of insecurity in me, but the best way is to make what I consider to be an unfair judgment or accusation against me. My wife touches that nerve on purpose sometimes, just to get me to let it out. I think she feels that I'm holding something inside that might need to be released, but I feel worse afterward, not better.

[westgrandboulevard]

Ha! I get cross with myself sometimes when I'm aware I'm giving people the 'me' I feel it's fair they should see, in an attempt not to dump on them any irritation I'm feeling with other issues not connected with them.

Just sometimes, it gets a bit tricky to keep smiling and being pleasant, but all the while seething inside haha....but the ideal is to deal with it quickly.

It's a habit of mine to be thoughtful, turning over issues in my mind like a washing machine cycle - but it's a bad habit when the thoughts are veering towards negative.

That's when I have to tell myself to get a clear focus on whatever is niggling me, and deal with it.

"Seeds of anxiety"? Yes, the merest suspicion of someone else's concealed annoyance or anger can often have a negative effect on our own feelings...

[Jerry Oz]

My brother was a drug and alcohol counselor in the US Air Force and seeds of anxiety are things that he was taught to use. Basically, when someone has something to hide, you allude to it without saying it outright. It takes root in his mind and later in the conversation, he reveals the truth by wanting to accuse you of saying something that was never actually said. Of course, the reply is "I never said that. Why would you suppose to bring it up?" Usually, this gets the conversation going toward the truth or straight to hell, depending on how resistant the person is to admitting that his own thoughts just betrayed him.

Anyway, I'm better at planting those sees than most, even though I've never been trained to use the tactic. It's almost unfair, though. The part about it that bugs me is that it is clearly a self-defense mechanism for me to strike out in an admittedly passive-aggressive and mean-spirited way. So I at once enjoy the "Gotcha!!" moment and despise myself for doing it. I believe that I should be bigger than that.

[westgrandboulevard]

There's nothing 'small' about just wanting to get to the truth, although that may lead to you being accused of having an interrogative style. [[by whom, or for what reasons, are a different, and very interesting matter...)

You may just have a precise, analytical nature?

[Jerry Oz]

I'm more intuitive than analytical. I can find a nerve almost instinctually and press it easier than I can figure out why the nerve is there. By the same token, however, I am considered "a people person" because I am excellent at finding out what makes people tick and in my job as a manager, it's quite natural for me to motivate someone. They work well for me because they know that I care enough to find out what is important to them. In other words, they're comfortable around me and I work better around comfortable people.

[westgrandboulevard]

Sounds like good team work.

Do you have much turnover of staff where you work?

[Jerry Oz]

This year, we have had more attrition than before. Mostly, that's because the general demeanor of the place has plummeted. I've never seen morale as low as this in over 20 years of working in these environments. I still do what I can to keep them uplifted. Most are unhappy because this place used to be a much easier job to have. Modern business is a harsh mistress. Unfortunately, I have no direct reports, so I tend to be everybody's unofficial boss. That helps when they feel that their actual boss is leaning on them unduly. They come my way and I smooth the waters so they can focus on the important things instead of something that upset them.

[westgrandboulevard]

I can sympathise with that. In an ideal situation, it's a real advantage [[but due more to luck than design) to have a team which has an harmonious blend. Whenever members change, there is a threat to the dynamics of the team, especially if working in close proximity with each other.

Low morale is tough for everybody. Those final words you used: 'something that upset them' , are very telling. Feeling upset at work, where so much time is spent, is not a good feeling at all, for anyone.

[144man]

I am so thankful that I have retired and no longer have the problem of motivating staff.

I worked in both large and small companies, and found the small companies much more rewarding as far as being appreciated was concerned.

[westgrandboulevard]

Yes, I've also worked in both large and small companies.

During and after college in London I worked in many of the bigger stores there, before settling at that certain store in Knightsbridge beginning with an 'H' [[and certainly not a 'haitch' ), which was a lot of fun.

Following on, I was lucky in that I was the fifth successive generation to work [[for 21 years) in my family's furnishing business, and am now the last surviving member of my family to have done so.

It was more a way of life than simply '9-5' work, and the same is also true of my current activity, running a smaller furnishing business with my partner, together with self-employed members of our team. It's personal ,it's hard work [[especially posting here while doing my admin!) but very rewarding.

[144man]

I'm guessing that you do what you can to make the working-day more enjoyable.

[westgrandboulevard]

That's absolutely true, as it's in my own interests to do so.

Besides, the working days can be long, and SDF keeps me focused and in good company!

[Jerry Oz]

I stop by on my breaks and lunches everyday. Speaking of long working days, one of the things that has hurt morale at my warehouse is the fact that we have been working crazy amounts of overtime. The temps have been working 12 hour days since the beginning of August with only two days off until the end of September. The union workers have had two voluntary Sundays during that period. I am responsible for safety in a warehouse full of exhausted forklift drivers. We typically have accidents during periods of heavy overtime and we are working at an unprecedented rate. That is the source of much of my stress these days...

[westgrandboulevard]

Are all the minimum legal requirements of employment being upheld?

It sounds as if a reduced number of staff is attempting to maintain the same output achieved by more people in the past. Surely that can be sustained only for a relatively short period of time, before the flow of operation begins to break down?

[Jerry Oz]

All legal requirements are being met. I can't speak as to whether the ethical considerations have been given as much thought. We are permitted to have no more than 50% as many contract employees as union employees. We once had 87 union workers and over 40 contract workers [[aka temps). In the past five years, attrition has whittled the union workforce down to 39, so we may have no more than 19 contracts. We currently have 12. Since some of the union workers are on disability leave, we actually have only 36 that are here each day, so there are a maximum of 48 people working each day.

The processes have changed, so fortunately we do not need 120 workers anymore, but we still could easily keep 60+ busy. The company steadfastly refuses to hire any permanent workers, so the number of temps we may bring in will only shrink as the perms quit or are terminated. And my boss insists on setting production targets higher than anyone can possibly work in a normal working day, so the operations teams are always working from behind. Hence, the overtime. He informed us on Wednesday that he was going to bring in the full complement of contracts permitted by the union, but that our volume of work is not expected to reduce for the remainder of 2013. Or, as he stated, we should set our target to be six 10-hour days per working week instead of seven.

[westgrandboulevard]

Having been self-employed for so long, I'm unsure how the law stands here in the UK, but there used to be a limit to the total hours that an employee should work in any week. If they worked overtime, they had to be given time off another day, generally about half a day.

When your boss says 'we should set our target to be six 10-hour days per working week instead of seven' does that mean the days an employee is expected to work?

[Jerry Oz]

Yes. In his vision, we'll be good to work 58 hours or less, but should plan on working seven days per week if everything doesn't synchronize perfectly. However, for the contract workers, that 58 hours is typically 80 [[12 hours Monday thru Friday, and 10 hours on Saturdays and Sundays). Those poor folks have only had two scheduled days off in 50 days. And now, because the union had a worker fired due to excessive tardiness, they're clamoring about how often the contract workers are late. I understand their point, but someone is bound to be tardy from time to time when they only have enough time to work, go home, go to sleep, and return to work.

[moe]

How do people in your neck of the works get to work on time with all that road construction around you Jerry???

[Jerry Oz]

I'm fortunate enough to live 8 miles and 15 minutes away. Everybody else just leaves on time. Well, except for the guy who got fired for tardiness. He was late 25 times in the 20 months since the first time he was written up. If they're late five times in three months, they receive a write-up. The second time within a year gets them a three-day suspension, and the third time in two years gets them fired. Guess what he did?

[westgrandboulevard]

Looking at those working hours, Jerry, even if everyone was being paid a million dollars in justification of working them, they'd still be tired. The guy who was fired was working much harder than very many others elsewhere.

Just by the details you give, it sounds completely unrealistic, but I totally accept what you say as being the reality.

What sort of daily breaks are provided, and annual holidays?

[Jerry Oz]

Breaks are 15 minutes every two hours after shift start with 30 minute lunch at noon. I'm typing this at 8:00 AM break [[Saturday morning!!!!!!). Otherwise, I'd still be asleep from enjoying a Friday night with the Missus. The light is on the horizon, though. The current schedule ends the overtime on Friday, but there's always a likelihood that it will extend.

[westgrandboulevard]

If there were a dormitory at work, there would be no need to go home to bed....!

[moe]

And the poor missus would be alone!!

[Jerry Oz]

That last point, moe, is the killer for me. My wife is wonderful in her support. But I would rather have time with her than the loot that I get from overtime.

[westgrandboulevard]

Sounds like everything is fine at home, Jerry.

In the short term, money is very important when considering what else we want to do with our time.

In the medium to long term, I'd say time becomes the more important. Coming home regularly is particularly important. People who, through distance, are apart a lot miss much, even in the most faithful of relationships.

[Jerry Oz]

I hate business trips because of that separation. Whereas I think it would be exciting to travel for a living, I don't think that I could do it. As you guys know, there's nothing more important to me than my wife/family and time.

The worst phone calls are those made from a thousand miles away when you wish you were home. The closest I ever come to loneliness is hanging up the phone after a three-hour phone call knowing that she's there and I'm not. Especially when you know that she feels the same way...

[westgrandboulevard]

That's one of the worst feelings, being in a place, but knowing where else you wholeheartedly would prefer to be.

[Jerry Oz]

It really is. We moved 900 miles away to Memphis, Tennessee once and when my Mom called to let me know that it was my nephew's first birthday, I felt horrible being so far away. To make it worse, I was working non-stop then, as well [[six days per week, up to 12 hours per day), so I left my wife at home with no car, no friends, no family, and only a dog-tired husband to look forward to.

One day, the phone rang and her crying sister was on the other line to tell her that their dad had a stroke and was hospitalized. My wife was on a Grayhound Bus around midnight that evening and by the time I drove home to our empty apartment the next day, my mind was cemented on one point: We were moving back home as soon as it was possible. As supportive as she was, I didn't feel as if I was doing the same for her.

[westgrandboulevard]

Sometimes, it's difficult to know what's worse - trying to look ahead, but not knowing quite what to do for the best - or knowing what seems best at the moment, but all the while feeling guilty about it....

[Jerry Oz]

Of course, hindsight is an unfair companion. With infinite possibilities and a choice to be made, you either make one or face an inevitable result. When that result doesn't yield the anticipated payback, we look behind and think of something else that we could have done. Only, instead of "could", we tell ourselves "I should have done that". How wonderful would life be if we intuitively knew the best of all options that we face and never made a bad decision?

[westgrandboulevard]

Perhaps, if we never made a bad decision, we would simply spend all our time wondering what might have happened if we had...

[Jerry Oz]

I think that's probably right. But of course, our decisions aren't the only ones that affect us. We decide what is best for us, often to the detriment of others [[and vice versa). In the end, the best decision almost always is to handle the things we face in a manner that won't make things worse. We are emotional beings, however, so that is easier said than done. REM was right: Everybody hurts.

[westgrandboulevard]

It doesn't always help, but whatever we do will probably benefit somebody, somewhere....