Just a chime....or??

[Jerry Oz]

Editor's note: [[Wowwwww.... I didn't realize how much I liked this place until I posted that. That'll put all of my complaining about it into proper perspective...)

[westgrandboulevard]

It's called 'counting your blessings' Jerry - which probably none of us do enough times

[Jerry Oz]

That's because many of us focus on everybody else's blessings. We do that without realizing that somebody, somewhere is focused on those things that we never notice in our own lives. I personally am not interested in trading places...

[westgrandboulevard]

Me neither, as I have no idea what some of them might have had to do, to get where they are...

It's very easy to look at the results without considering, let alone wanting, the work involved.

[moe]

I was driving down the road the other day to my house and I was behind a school bus. It stopped and a little girl came off, saw her daddy, and ran to him giggling. There was daddy waiting with open arms. A very simple thing but it brought a huge smile to my face! Such joy and innocence!!

[Jerry Oz]

Life is full of those moments. I remember I was once driving by my old elementary school and looking at the children on the playground. There were black kids playing with white kids and all of them were ignoring all of the racial politics to which they were inevitably exposed. They were just kids. I wonder why we become corrupted as we get older? It may not be race, it may be sexism or religion or politics or class. But we seem to be much more interested in our reasons to dislike someone than the many reasons to lift them up.

[moe]

Jerry, your last sentence made me think of a conversation I had with someone at work. She said that women have a tendency to bring each other down [[cattiness, pettiness) as opposed to lift them up and support each other. I can definitely understand what she said. What do you think?

[Jerry Oz]

I am a firm believer that men ultimately behave in the manner that women accept. And sadly, it seems that many women compete with each other in a great many areas for reasons that I can't discern. They did an exercise on television once wherein they showed teenage girls photos of bone-thin models and they all had the most catty, jealous opinions of them. They then showed them plus-sized [[not obese) models and they were extremely complimentary of them. All of these girls were of the bony variety, mind you. From the exercise, it appeared that they were threatened by those that they found to be attractive, so they tore them down over petty reasons. They were less threatened by the larger women, so they were more honest in their assessments of them.

My dad is always amazed at the long extensions that flow from beneath football helmets when he and I watch games. He talks about how ugly it is and wonders why young people today "insist on being ugly". I have to remind him every Sunday, that if girls didn't like that look, boys would look differently. It's a natural thing for men to appeal to what works for their desired mates. The colorful bird gets the female, after all. If women only understood their influence.

Yet, it appears that many compete with each and I cannot understand it. Nobody wants to be cheated on, but there is no shortage of women who are willing to cheat with somebody's husband. Some judge each other by impossible standards. And some [[not to bash her again in this thread) like Miley Cyrus, Madonna, and Britney Spears, sink to the lowest levels of animal attraction to gain acceptance. So sad.

It's a natural thing, moe. It goes all the way to what we are [[primal beings, animals) and can only be overcome by realizing who we are [[higher beings capable of morals and boundaries). Without that enlightenment, we revert back to nature and our actions are dictated by hormones and our personal sense of self-preservation. Unfortunately, if it means that we have to bring someone else down in order to get the desired benefit [[job, mate, power, legacy), then we will do it. I don't think that it's just women, by the way. I think it's more obvious in women because their 'cattiness' cuts a little harder than that of men.

[westgrandboulevard]

For what it's worth, my feelings on innocence are that we should hold on to it for as long as possible, while seeing it in an affectionate light for the unknowingness it represents.

Generally, we learn [[negatively) to let innocence slip away when something bad happens to us, which sours any innnocent enjoyment we have experienced. When we're really kids, we cry, forget and carry on but, as we grow a little older, we start to associate innocent feelings with bad, sad and hurtful occurrences.

Or.... someone who is older [[and someone we look to as possessing more 'authority') has told us we should drop the innocence. Or, maybe has made us feel we should.

There is no more destructive voice any of us will ever hear in our lives, than the one inside our own head.

Innocence is one thing, intelligence is another. We owe it to ourselves to maximise our intelligence, as well as common sense, and to 'ringfence' our innocence, to avoid becoming irreversibly cynical.

As for criticism of others,in my view that comes from insecurity and lack of awareness. Insecure people don't like the nagging feeling in their own head that someone else is better at this or that, so they deal with it by criticising them. Sometimes, people are just too lazy to admit someone else is admirable, and then try to be like them. Criticism is much the easier option. But it doesn't make them any happier.

That old adage "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" is always true -if only for the reason that listening to someone else being critical of another [[even when there is some justification for it) doesn't place them in an approachable and sympathetic light. Nobody ever looked good by putting someone else down. It becomes harder to reach an understanding on a conversational level. The same applies when people put themselves down.....

The first step is to be happy with as much of ourselves as possible, and then deal with the 'other issues' which we hope could be improved.

Gospel according to WGB, y'all.....LOL

[Jerry Oz]

I'll bring up something from the Bible just to substantiate what you said [[per my understanding): Jesus invited Peter onto the water and Peter actually walked on it until he looked around and saw the storm raging. He immediately began to sank. We do that all the time. The only reason we cannot all reach our potential is because we have doubt that usually comes not from within, but from how we believe others will perceive our failure.

We shouldn't worry about failing. We learn more from failure than succeeding, actually. We learn what doesn't work and if we are intelligent, we don't make the same mistake the next time. Consider: If babies approached development with the fearful and cynical eye that adults have, they'd never learn to walk.

We should concern ourselves with being the best that we can be and do everything as well as we can; screw everybody who wants us to fail or who enjoys it when we do. They're just jealous because we tried when they were too cowardly to go for it. And if they don't like us for any reason, guess what? That is their problem. No need for us both to be unhappy because they choose to be.

And that mi amigos, is the gospel according to Jerry...

[westgrandboulevard]

I'll go for that gospel!

One thing I notice can become tricky is that these ideals which we hold dear work well on paper, but it's tougher when we come to uphold them in real daily life.

Everyone has their story, just like us. it's not always that we don't agree with our colleague or friend, more that we can't, because of what we believe is best for us, or that our circumstances have been different from their own.

It's easy for me to set out my ideals on paper or a screen, but more of a challenge to actually sit with and listen to someone else's take when I know I don't agree - so it's give and take, agree to disagree, etc.

Age and past experiences start to tell on our perception, [[even our patience?) as the years pass but, goodness knows, we could all do with a friend or two at the end....

[Jerry Oz]

Great points. Human nature pretty much demands that we must be careful when considering anything new or different in our lives. We're all vulnerable and for some reason, we give more weight to the failing than we do to success as we get older. We don't to see somebody smirking as if to tell us "I told you so". But, with all of my urging, I'm at least as bad in that regard as others. That's why I've been planning to write the Great American Novel for more than 20 years and always give up after composing a couple of pages. It's why I stop drawing and painting soon after I put a few strokes on paper or canvas. It's why I look out the window on my job and wonder why I'm not doing something that I'd really enjoy. It's why I haven't booked that trip to Victoria Falls that I've always wanted. It's why I haven't gone anonymously to Amateur Night at the local Improv like I promised myself I'd do one day. But, I'm convinced that at some point I'll do some of the above and it will be for me, not for anyone else. And even if it's not everything that I wanted it to be, I'll see it for myself and I will motivate someone else to dare to do what they want.

[westgrandboulevard]

Those plans and wishes you say you've not yet tackled, Jerry, could of course be interpreted as meaning your life is as busy and happy as you need it to be, just at the moment.

Leastways, that's how it often seems with me. I give a bit of thought to this or that, have a flash or two of inspiration, "for when the time is right".... then find myself thinking about the grocery list for the supermarket, cleaning the bath, or trying to get some financial paperwork in order - ha!

While I'm going about such everyday routine chores, I do ask myself at times why I'm reticent even about thinking or dreaming much about what I'd like that's different from what I'm actually doing. Am I therefore happier than I wish to admit - or do I feel that wishing for 'something else' is an admission that life is not going so well? I don't mind having these strange little debates with myself, as long as I'm also doing something practical, and which has a result that I can see.

Reading your words Jerry, the first thing I would say from my own objective standpoint is "GIve your plans more thought". I wonder if, like many of us, you're someone who needs someone to show you some sort of lead?

And I wonder - are you one for making lists.......?!

[Jerry Oz]

I am not really one for lists. More likely I forgo doing what I want to do in favor of what needs to be done. I don't really have regrets because there is nothing that I would like to do that I cannot do. I am running out of time, but in honesty, I wouldn't trade my life for anyone else's. I have had it pretty good for most of my life and it would be disingenuous to pretend that my life would be better if anything that is in my control was different than it is.

[144man]

I suppose being too happy with ones lot can lead to complacency and a lack of ambition. I could be perceived as being in a rut, but to me it's a nice rut.

[Jerry Oz]

So, do you agree with the notion that happiness is less about having what you want than it is about wanting what you have?

[144man]

Yes, I do, and also about being happy in ones skin. If you don't like yourself, how can you expect other people to?

[westgrandboulevard]

Agreed, one hundred per cent. And if one is happy, why look any further?

Mind you, I'll admit that doesn't stop me being a bit tetchy about things at times....

[144man]

It's good to get things out of your system rather than bottling them up.

[westgrandboulevard]

I agree, but being well preserved leaves something in store.....

[moe]

Good conversation here & all good points! I believe in being happy with what you have. And anything else is a bonus!
More when I have the time..........

[Jerry Oz]

Speaking of time: It occurs to me that it is a blessing to grow old and in good health. However, knowing that if I was to live for another 100 years, I'd lose everybody that I know and love presently, should the gift of longevity be seen as a blessing or ultimately as a curse? I want to go for as long as I can, but I think often of my grandmother who died more than 40 years after Grandpa and nearly 20 years after her last surviving sibling. She left four generations behind her, knowing and loving each of us uniquely. But that is a long time to go without your husband/wife/lover/better half and brothers and sisters [[she had six of them). What say ye? Would you tarry forever on this Earth if given the opportunity?

[moe]

You must be listening in to our conversations at work Jerry!
My answer is no. We lost my dad 5 yrs ago and although my mother is remarkably mobile at 90 she wishes my dad was still here [[not a day goes by) and she's the last of her siblings so she thinks about it often!!!

[Jerry Oz]

I don't want to leave my wife, but I also don't want to lose her one day either. Thankfully, the decision is not up to me...

Still, I wonder at which point I'll be "ready" to go... I am confident in my faith but still, I don't want to miss what happens next week on [[fill in the blanks with your favorite TV show). Sometimes, I think the only thing that will worry me if I have time to consider it before passing on, is whether my favorite sports teams would be so audacious as to win a championship after I'm not around to enjoy it...

[westgrandboulevard]

I think we humans do have a knack of emotionally adjusting to our circumstances, although the result may not always be positive.

I would not wish to live forever. Even if my heart kept beating, some of life's disappointments [[i.e. the way life has to be) are enough to kill me. I do believe that disappointment features to a significant degree in hastening ends of life, but it's never entered on the death certificates.

We do have a natural lifespan, which varies between individuals. Most of us at some stage of advanced life withdraw into living our life on a simple, daily basis, here for the moment, nothing left to lose, why worry. Some withdraw from society, and some do find new interests, but that depends on the individual - and of how they have been in their life to that point.

When certain key people pass away, who have been with us for a great deal of our life, we coast through the subsequent days and years. The times of planning, activity and input are over. Simple pleasures become more appreciated. The memories of loved ones are particularly important, and are a reason to continue. "I'm doing the best I can to be cheerful, because 'ABC' would want me to..."

As for being 'the last one' of the generation, I think that is a someone that none of us would ever choose to be. That said, I've noticed it's often someone who has an optimistic outlook, and sees life in broad terms. They don't constantly recount the sadnesses they have borne.

Apart from health and luck, I can't make up my mind if they have outlived everyone else simply because of their outlook and mental adaptability - or whether the circumstances of the sad, farewell procession out of their life by family and friends has caused them to draw on their emotional resources, instead of giving in to sadness and despair.

Whether life be short or long, each day is of the greatest importance. We only have today!

[Jerry Oz]

"As for being 'the last one' of the generation, I think that is a someone that none of us would ever choose to be. That said, I've noticed it's often someone who has an optimistic outlook, and sees life in broad terms. They don't constantly recount the sadnesses they have borne."

And that describes Grandma Lucy to a "T". I'm convinced that she lived the last ten years of her life so as not to disappoint all of us who loved her.

Two thoughts: Have you ever wondered who we cry for at funerals? Is it really the decedent? Because that person's pain and burdens have ceased. I think it's because of our loss. I often believe that the grief should be considered in proper context.

And secondly, why is it so much easier to remember the pain of someone's passing than it is to enjoy the joy of their lives prior to that? I often find myself suppressing good thoughts because they inevitably bring me to the heartache again... I like to believe myself to be rational and in balance, if there wasn't so much more that is joyful, the pain wouldn't endure. So why can I not grab onto the saw that says "it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all"? I really want to do that.

[westgrandboulevard]

Absolutely Jerry, we do cry for ourselves at funerals.

It's quite natural, and perhaps more healthy than simply addressing the full strength of our emotion towards the memory of someone who has passed from sight, and cannot respond in a way which we would understand.

There are exceptional circumstances : the loss of a child or a young person, or someone whose life was taken by accident or otherwise, when the unfairness of what has happened is very raw. Then, there is a tendency to cry in sympathy and grief, which is quite understandable.

But, generally, we do forget that someone's life has ended, so that we may cry - and for ourselves..but don't forget the tears which are borne of relief, or those of gratitude, as well as those of happiness...

In recalling the heartache as a default emotion, it could be that you are dwelling a little too long - maybe more than is needed? If so, there will be a good reason for it, but only you will know what it is. Are there any other emotions which could also be addressed in addition to the feeling of personal loss?

For every loss, there is a gain. For every ending, there is a beginning. Trite, but true. They almost always are not immediately apparent, as the immediate sense of loss disguises them, but it is essential to seek and then recognise them.

In my own experience, it is only through open-minded reflections [[which I tend to regard as 'abstract' mode- just letting the thoughts hover, to come and go as they will) I can recognise and fully appreciate the benefits I now have, now that someone has passed away. A sense of experiencing a fuller understanding, of moving up a little higher.

I find my own memories of the dead [[starting with my Mum and Dad) to be wonderfully reassuring, and of great comfort. There needs to be room for a little humour and acceptance to flourish.

Although thoughts come out of the blue, and are sometimes disconnected, the dead don't ring you up when it's not the best moment, or ask if you can come as soon as possible because the TV won't work properly [[!) You can simply take them anywhere with you.

Memories are intended to be weightless, so that you may bear them as you travel, with a light step.

[Jerry Oz]

Ah, so a life well-lived goes on in the memories of those who were touched. Thanks, WGB. Your words speak to my intuition about these things, but it's comforting to actually see them expressed.

[westgrandboulevard]

It's interesting how life is very sequential in many ways, and not as random as we may sometimes think or, at times, wish. That may be viewed as boring, or reassuring, depending on one's perception at any given time.

On the topic of sequence, Jerry, and your earlier remark about suppressing good thoughts......always go with your feelings first, to be clear and recognise just how you feel - and, then, think about it, if you must.

The other way around - for example, thinking what you should be feeling and doing - causes confusion, and eliminates spontaneity.

Interesting - on one thread you say you are suppressing good thoughts - but on another thread [[Word Association), you often respond so fast it's obvious that you've gone with the feeling, and successfully so - and not needed to give extra time to the thought.

You can do it with ease.....

[Jerry Oz]

I'm not suppressing good thoughts so much as good memories. I remember when my Aunt Willie died when I was about 20 years old. I couldn't stop crying at her funeral and beyond. I missed her so much that each wonderful memory was somehow tainted by the pain of her departure. I must have cried for a week. At some point, I felt that I had to move on and the only way to do that was to suppress those good memories. And now, 30 years later, I can bare remember her. That was unhealthy, untherapeutic, and an unsuccessful way to move on...

But when my Grandma died, it was different. It was cathartic to see hundreds of people at her funeral, some of whom I didn't even know that called her "grandma" just like me. She was the best human being that I've ever known and her influence upon me keeps me from being depressed about her passing. I had a dream that she came to see me once and instead of the expectant depression when I woke up, I smiled as if I had been blessed. Perhaps I'm maturing in that regard...

And the other thread is my anchor against what the world throws at me. You guys are soooo good at it. Sometimes I read the responses that come from so far out of left field and I think "I wish I had thought of that". I have laughed so hard that I've cried at times.

Don't think of my therapy session on this thread as me being overly influenced by dark thoughts, by the way. Every bad day that I've experienced was a bridge to the most wonderful blessing of my life: today. I sometimes have to think things out to put everything into perspective and those heavy thoughts somehow make the lighter ones much better. Think of it like someone who appreciates the winter because it makes the spring seem so much better.

[144man]

The thing that makes me want to stay alive for as long as possible is curiosity. Whether it be world events, TV shows, or social matters, I always want to know what's going to happen next.

Like westgrandboulevard, I also find memories of my Mum and Dad a great comfort. They gave me a happy childhood, and I feel that they have never really left me.

[westgrandboulevard]

Jerry, your Grandma [[probably Aunt Willie too) sounds like one of those life-enhancing people who can exude the exact same positive force after their time as when they were alive. It's a real, real blessing to know people like that. Once known, always known. 'Have known', in past tense, seems irrelevant. They remain constantly current in our lives.

If events, or anyone's words or actions, should ever challenge your feelings, leaving you uncertain and unhappy, you should ask yourself what Grandma would have said about it to you, had you actually spoken to her in life together. I feel you will then receive the correct advice on the way to go.

I'm neither a medium nor a spiritualist, but my Mum and Dad 'speak' to me, generally taking me by surprise, either by their timing, or their message. While it feels strange, it doesn't bother me. As 144man said, they've never really left me, and will stay with me for as long as I need them, and it's a great comfort.

On the day my Mum died, my sister immediately asked me if I felt like her - an orphan - but I had to be truthful and say that I didn't, and I don't now. Sometimes I hear the odd word spoken in Mum or Dad's own voice [[s), but often it's simply a mild sensation to my brain - an unidentifiable feeling with an inherent meaning, like a sixth sense - but I know its source. I just have to consider the full meaning of what I am receiving.

Taking a rational approach to it, it could well be my own subconscious at work, reminding me of events and thoughts that I've suppressed. A form of self-analysis, fuelled by emotion.

Whatever it is, I act on it, because I believe in my own feelings.

[Jerry Oz]

One of my great blessings is that Mom and Dad are both still around, both well into their '70s. I should visit them more, but I always try to see them at church on Sunday morning and then I spend a few hours with them after it lets out. My job has scheduled me to work more Sundays this year than all together for the last five years and because it cuts into my time with my folks, it tends to upset me. I still go to see them when I get off [[if my attitude is not too soured by then), but I don't appreciate losing the opportunity to be blessed with their company. I owe them so much; they're easily the best parents with whom I've been acquainted [[and not just because they are mine) and it saddens me to hear that you guys have lost you own.

[moe]

You are very lucky to still have your parents, Jerry. There's not a day that goes by that I don't think of my dad. He was the one who told me that anything was possible with a good education. My parents were married 62 yrs when he died abruptly. My mom, at 90, doesn't look it & is fiercely independent [[ah, a strong Polish woman!!). Her short term memory is shot, but that long term memory is incredible. She still drives [[albeit a block or so) and has a social schedule every day of the week. I've tried to get her to move in with me but she says it would impede her social schedule [[HA!). I sure hope I am like her at 90!! My sister, however, does not appreciate her. Sad.

[Jerry Oz]

Perspective is reality. It's hard to understand how others can look at the same picture and see something completely different, isn't it? For some reason that we will never understand, we all have someone who views us in a less than favorable light. Some people are resented because they are too nice. Others are resented because they aren't. But in those cases, you often find that the simple act of saying "no" is the hardest and most necessary thing a parent or friend can do. That's not what the person being denied wants to hear, though...

[westgrandboulevard]

Yes, it is necessary to say 'no' at times.

I guess the best way to deal with it is first to say 'no' to a suggestion,but then immediately say when 'yes' might be convenient [[i.e. it's OK, just not right now)

Ah, but that's easy to say, but not always so easy to do, especially if some 'me' time is called for, and the preferred response to absolutely everybody might be 'no' ....

In that case,and from my own personal experience of years ago, very often a feeling of irritation sets in ,maybe even a tinge of guilt - it's so much easier to just say yes, to keep the peace - but that's no good if, by so doing, we cause mental stress to ourselves.

As is often said, best to keep busy, but saving some time just for ourselves.

Moe, when you say your sister just does not appreciate your Mum, I get the immediate impression that your sister is not as upbeat as you, and may even have some issues from way back, that are used as an excuse not to keep in regular contact with her. Don't shoot me if I'm wrong but, if right, then sadly there are a lot of people around doing just that.

The sort that will often say, when someone is dying and might like a visit : "I just want to remember him/her as he/she was..." I won't say it's wrong, but sometimes seems regrettable, whatever the reasons might be.

[Jerry Oz]

Families with more than one child often have to deal with the fact that loving them equally doesn't mean that each will be treated equally. My nephew had the misfortune of trying to live up to the standard set by his older brother who just happens to be the finest nephew/son/grandson/young man in the world [[in this proud uncle's opinion). Well, that standard was hard to live up to. I love the younger one every bit as much as the older one, but the older one received more praise because he did more praise worthy things. He helped his mom immensely. He did well in school. He is quick to help Grandma and Grandpa [[my parents) if they call. He's just a decent young man in every regard.

His brother is every bit as decent, but it didn't manifest itself in much of what he did. He didn't like school because he had a learning disability, so the praise offered to him as he passed from one year to the other was tempered because his attitude toward moving forward was tempered. We found other things to use to encourage him, but he always kept rapt attention to his brother and what he thought his brother was receiving. It's still sad. Unfortunately, the younger one has been dealing with mental health issues of late and refuses to talk to my parents or me for issues that I literally don't understand. I love him dearly and want to find out how to break that ice, but not knowing what put it between us makes it difficult.

[westgrandboulevard]

Jerry, your younger nephew sounds as if he's increasingly found reasons in his mind not to do things.

The learning disability has the potential to impede his progress, but I suppose there's no reason why he couldn't make the most of himself, as his elder brother is doing.

Some people with difficulties thrive and surpass those who are more gifted, but don't make the most of their gifts.

It sounds as if there is a gulf in attitude between the two nephews - one is positive, while the other is uncertain and maybe feeling hurt, perhaps hostile, as he feels the gulf growing between him and his brother - ?

It's a tricky one, isn't it. What are the mental health issues that you mention?

[Jerry Oz]

His grandmother [[on my brother-in-law's side) was paranoid schizophrenic, with emphasis on "paranoid". One of her daughters has serious issues and sometimes, I have worried that my brother-in-law might actually degrade into someone new, but he seems to hold it together pretty well. My nephew, however, seems to think of himself as a victim. He doesn't go out with friends very much and he has been known to drink to excess. In fact, he had a DUI a few years ago and almost anything that you say to him regarding alcohol brings that to the fore because he'll think you're referencing the arrest. He really is a wonderful young man but he never focused on who he is so much as who he isn't. His mother [[my sister) works in the mental health arena and although she isn't qualified to diagnose him, she knows the symptoms of someone who has emotional difficulties and he apparently has them.

[westgrandboulevard]

Oh, that really is a tough one. There's a buried clue there that he just might have the ability to overcome all that, but not before he himself realises it, and sees what is required to work around all that has happened, and continues to happen.

And it's also hard for all those involved who have a clear picture of the challenge ahead.

Coincidentally, only yesterday I was discussing the problems faced by Tim, a young friend of my partner, with Tim's new landlord. Tim has an addictive personality [[as does his father), and the emphasis seems to be on trying to encourage him to stop the binge drinking. His doctor has already diagnosed liver problems. There are also emotional difficulties, and my own feeling [[but only as an untrained bystander) is that if these difficulties could stabilised, maybe he could visualise himself in different circumstances, and it would give Tim hope. Then maybe, he could deal with the alcohol problem.

But....it's really something only he can tackle, but not until he has first accepted that he does have a problem....

[Jerry Oz]

It's all very difficult. I just saw my sister at church and asked about my nephew and she said that he won't seek help because he doesn't acknowledge having a problem. It's interesting that we both are witness to a similar situation.

[westgrandboulevard]

I think this is what is often considered to be a 'classic' scenario, and one that is quite common - but often concealed by loved ones, much of it behind closed doors.

The affected person, in a sense, returns to the womb, and acts as if in complete denial.

Of course, their nearest are also very much affected, probably more so. They are obliged to share the experience as a very subjective one for them, but also having at times at least to attempt to be objective, simply to cope.

And then, very often, a point is reached when the loved one's needs become so acute, it is in their own best interests for them to be taken into care for qualified, specialised medical treatment and nursing, not as the person they once were, but as a patient in the first instance.

It must test the emotional resources of even the strongest and bravest of people.

Which calls to mind the following....

"But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many people strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism" - Desiderata/Max Ehrmann

[moe]

Westgrand, you are right on the money. My sister had some idea that my mother wasn't a perfect mother in HER eyes [[what it is that she expected is anybody's guess). We were fed, clothed, and a roof over our heads. We had both parents. What you have to ask yourself [[and my mother) was: did she do the best she could? The answer is an overwhelmingly "YES." But my sister hangs on to resentment/anger forever [[I am not kidding on this.) She lost her husband over 20 yrs ago to leukemia & still hasn't gotten over it [[i.e. anger that he left her). Funny that both my mother and my sister exhibit the same traits [[always right & always right to the death-defying finish). She needs to let go but won't. So sad, but no one else can do it for her.

[westgrandboulevard]

We are all unique individuals, there's no doubt about it, but the more we talk here, the more it seems we are the same.

I can only think that there are but a few basic variations to the way human nature works.

My sister [[I came first, then my sister 18 months later - another little girl followed 5-6 years later, but didn't make it) did not have quite the same eye-to-eye relationship with my Mum as I did. My Mum felt she was a tomboy, and rather unruly. I was biddable, quite easy to please, and largely happy in my own company. It still seems to rankle with my sister that she felt our parents thought I was the brighter [[while we were treated differently, it was to equal degrees) and also that it was easier for me being a boy.

Her husband [[my brother-in-law) died early 2004, some months after being diagnosed with a brain tumour. I felt for her, and still do, but she developed a real attitude about it. I can quite understand why she would, but I just wish she didn't. Towards the end of his life, my brother-in-law started to make some decisions with finance which could have been thought through a little more, which meant my sister did not have as much to her name when he died as she thought - but neither was she short, as an insurance policy paid out. She has some very good qualities but it doesn't take much to start her off about it [["I'm a widow..."), but I don't hear her count her blessings.

I know my/our Mum was sometimes dismayed at the way my sister could be [[and maybe the way I was, too, in my way!) but I now find I feel the same way about my sister as she did. If my sister doesn't agree with something I say, she raises her voice, or becomes indignant and confrontational, often for things which aren't too important. There's a very strong trigger at work, that she just cannot get over. If I keep calm and evenhanded, she feels I'm being patronising. My view is we are only ever patronised if we feel ourselves to be.

We communicate best via the written word, and there is a county between our residences! Shortly after my Mum died, my sister wished to take over much of the funeral arrangements. She actually told me [[by email) that everything is OK between us only if she agrees with me. The remark dismayed me, but didn't upset me, as it's not true, but I wasn't about to respond to that sort of provocation.

It's a strange thing, but I was always supposed to be like my Mum both in looks and in nature but, as the years are sliding by, I'm becoming more like my Dad, particularly since he passed away 6 years ago.

My sister was never really quite like either of them [[I believe she takes after more distant relatives) but has seemed to adopt the worst of my Mum's little traits [[for example, Mum would be very careful and diligent and caring about things - but the other side was that she could at times be critical and nitpicking). There's an upside and a downside to all of our little characteristics, which are effective in some situations, and not so effective in others.

I still believe we should honour our parents by adopting the best of both of them when they have gone, not giving way to resentment and grumpiness....but I can only walk in my own shoes. It's difficult to know exactly how it is for anyone else, even for someone who is supposed to be 'close', like a sister......

There seems to be some sort of pattern emerging here, doesn't there.....

[Jerry Oz]

What I find interesting about our discussion is that we have very similar observations on life and those observations are based upon similar experiences. Conversely, I have long been of the opinion that our observations are unique to ourselves, so I'd love to hear the situations we've described from the viewpoint of my nephew, WGB's sister, and moe's sister. I wonder if they view us as stumbling blocks or negative personalities? Are they wondering if there's a way to help us straighten out our lives [[from their perspectives)?

When I watch movies, I always try to pay attention to the background actors. Faceless, nameless; they're only in the movie to be killed. But, I wonder who they are and who they leave behind when they are shot or blown up in a war film or as an unnamed thug in a gangster flick. All we know is that they are in the German army [[which makes them bad guys automatically) or came in with a menacing look and a machine gun with a more defined gangster. From their standpoint, they're just doing their jobs, but as depicted by the director, they're bad guys who exist only to do bad things making it easy for us to cheer when something bad happens to them.

Perspective is a remarkable thing. I'm sure there are very few people who see themselves as evil, yet per the collective of mankind and vantage point of history, that is exactly who they are. From the viewpoint of his tribesmen, Saddam Hussein was a great man. Bashar al-Assad is seen by someone as a savior. And yet, others saw Ghandi as an instigator and a roadblock to prosperity and peace.

The folks that we all admit to loving and caring for don't fit any description of the last couple of paragraphs. The thought just came to mind that they might have the same concerns about us that we have about them, although in their minds, we have room to improve ourselves. Sorry for the open [[and probably confusing) thought...

[westgrandboulevard]

Yes, I do feel that each of us is bound to view events from our own perspective.

We all have to generally lead our lives our way, although very often there may be the feeling of dissatisfaction and limitation of choice. If we didn't, we'd be leading our lives someone else's way - which could mean just anyone we meet. That could lead to complete victimisation.

Yes, I agree that those who you or I might regard as evil will not think they are.

We'd probably be horrified to know just how we are viewed by some people, and probably equally touched at how some others view us. Best all round if we keep our own counsel!

It's interesting that you identify, not with the most prominent personalities, but those who might be considered the subordinates, or the underdogs of the situation.

It's also interesting to consider if we were to find ourselves in identical circumstances as our nephew, or our sister, and therefore seemingly have much more in common than before, whether we would confide and commiserate - or whether we would retain the same perspective we have held to date...

[Jerry Oz]

If you were the 18 years younger than your sister, do you suppose life would have afforded you the opportunity to be who you are? Or would you have traded places with her from a personality standpoint? Would she have formulated the relationship that you had with your Mum if she was the eldest or do you suppose that most of her issues are based upon biology? Are we programmed by nature to be who we are or are we shaped by our circumstances? I'm the baby [[of three kids) and my folks' relationship with each of us was different. Each of us knows them differently but each of us lives our lives as tribute to who they are and who they raised us to be. I like to think that I'm blessed to be the least of us because I hold them all in higher regard than I hold myself.

[westgrandboulevard]

Starting in the middle, yes, we are programmed to be who we are, both physically and psychologically. Comparing [[or sometimes contrasting) ourselves with our siblings is maybe irrelevant, at least at times.

Because we all came from the same place means we are close, but that can also bring a certain amount of competition [[my Mum used to say with a smile "Ah, sibling rivalry!" - and my sister and me would exchange glances with each other, as we knew Mum wasn't close to her only sister!!)

My sister [[btw, she's only 18 months younger, not years ) has had to endure some ongoing and debilitating illness for decades. When I say I find her attitude difficult to bear at times without making comment, it is more so because I feel mean for even thinking it - as I know it has made life difficult for her. I have been luckier - that's not what I feel, so much as what I suspect her of thinking - and I can't blame her for that.

She and my brother-in-law had three sons in five years. My nephews are all very tall. Standing next to them, I feel dark. They're so tall in fact that, in comparison, when we stand together, we look like The Marvelettes at the Apollo - and I look like Wanda. You'll get the picture. Even they smile and roll their eyes about their Mum and say "she just doesn't listen!". The real key to it all I feel is that my sister is a free spirit, whereas I'm more conservative. When she lost Nick her husband, the sensitivity of the situation was so acute, that she over-compensated, and became insensitive, simply to try and hold it all together.

Mum not so long ago said that she loved both of her children equally in their own way - and I feel that was fair, and accurate. I'm certain your Mum, Jerry, at some point will have said the same.

[Jerry Oz]

Hello! Of course, I meant "months"...

Anyway, you are of course correct about Mom. I have no doubt that should you ask my brother or sister if either felt like her favorite child, both of them [[like me) would gladly admit they that do. I can say the same about my dad, too, although my Pops and my brother are often butting heads.

[westgrandboulevard]

Although we all need to be happy with ourselves as individuals [[Lord protect us from too many unhappy people), family members are particularly important, also old friends...as they and us go back a long way - even if there are times when we look back to certain events and think "ouchhhhh"....!

On the subject of favourite child, I'm actually not sure if I wanted to be 'favourite' or not - maybe I did, sometimes?

It seemed to me that if I was ever considered a favourite, I had a slightly uneasy feeling that I'd have to watch my step, and be very careful not to become 'unfavourite'....so I guess I wasn't someone who just wanted to be 'Number One'. Well, it can be a big responsibility, trying to keep ahead of the pack...