People Question

[floyjoy678]

After Flo sings "We're children..." what do Mary and Diana sing in the background? Are they saying "today"? Love Mary and Diana when they sing background together...well except Aint That Good News lol.

[BobbyC]

I have to say I don't like the song People at all. Flo should been happy it was taken from her.

[floyjoy678]

I have to say I don't like the song People at all. Flo should been happy it was taken from her.

She must have been a fan of the song as she's the one who had the idea of including it in the act.

[sup_fan]

After Flo sings "We're children..." what do Mary and Diana sing in the background? Are they saying "today"? Love Mary and Diana when they sing background together...well except Aint That Good News lol.

sounds like they're just say "ren" as in childREN lolol

[BobbyC]

I'm sorry. I was just bored and hateful. I will take my evil self off this thread.

[sup_fan]

I'm sorry. I was just bored and hateful. I will take my evil self off this thread.

it's ok Bobby - we still love ya

i agree that out of all of the songs from Broadway and within the American Songbook they could select, and they picked People?!?!? it's never been one of my favs and frankly i wish they would have picked something else

One curiosity i always had was why 2 songs from the same show? I Am Woman was a good fit for the girls. cute, funny. Diana could really ham it up and play it up.

but then People!?!?! lol I don't know the song really did much to display Flo's talent. if i was her, i would have found something else. with more energy and punch

[TYK1986]

Bobby nothing hateful about what you said. It's your opinion. I don't like the song either and skip it when I listen to their live shows. Same for Somewhere when it's sung by Diana. I just don't like them songs.

I would have preferred if Florence sang something more up-tempo and cheerful. I think that would have done her good. Would ain't that good news been a good choice as add on to their already Sam Cooke medley and have Flo sing it?

[BobbyC]

Thanks, guys! I was basically kidding when I said I was being hateful but normally I tend to keep it zipped if I don't like something. Anyway, I guess with all the drama about who sang lead on People, it never crossed my mind that I didn't even like the song! I just prefer songs like, say, those that were on Touch. I've never been a Broadway kinda guy and People sounds to me like a Broadway song. Kinda the same way I never liked Up Up and Away--just not style of music.

[floyjoy678]

Lmao all I wanted to know was what are Diana and Mary singing on that one part of the song. Sup_fan I don't hear the ren that you hear. I keep hearing a two syllable word.

[khansperac]

Can we get a video imbedded or a link so we can hear what you are talking about?

[reese]

I think floyjoy678 is asking about what Diana and Mary are singing at timecode 1:03. I've wondered myself. Maybe they are saying "today."

[khansperac]

Thanks Reese. Now that I’ve listened, I have no idea.

[khansperac]

Ok. I just listened to them sing this live. It sounds like they are saying “today”.

[floyjoy678]

Khansperac yeah I always hear "today" but I always thought it didn't make sense as a response to "we're children".

So since so many of you hate Flo on lead for People, which standard do you think would have been right for her? I'm thinking maybe Zing! Went The Strings Of My Heart. Maybe What'll I Do?

[floyjoy678]

Oh I also always could hear her singing Rodgers and Hammerstein's Do I Love You really well.

[khansperac]

Khansperac yeah I always hear "today" but I always thought it didn't make sense as a response to "we're children".

So since so many of you hate Flo on lead for People, which standard do you think would have been right for her? I'm thinking maybe Zing! Went The Strings Of My Heart. Maybe What'll I Do?

I think it’s “where”, not we’re.

[reese]

Khansperac yeah I always hear "today" but I always thought it didn't make sense as a response to "we're children".

So since so many of you hate Flo on lead for People, which standard do you think would have been right for her? I'm thinking maybe Zing! Went The Strings Of My Heart. Maybe What'll I Do?

I don't hate Flo's lead on PEOPLE. But after years of hearing how much of a standout it was and how Flo would stop the show with it, I was expecting something REALLY exceptional. When I first heard it, I thought "That's it?" It's nice enough but I don't enjoy it as much as I do, say, MAKE SOMEONE HAPPY.

Oddly enough, I really like the version on the expanded MOTORTOWN REVUE IN PARIS cd. It was deleted from the original album because of microphone issues. I think Diana's mike went dead at times. But you can really hear what Mary was doing with her harmony part and her tone is great.

But if I had to pick a favorite PEOPLE, it is Diana's solo version from the FUNNY GIRL album.

[BobbyC]

I like Flo's lead, and I like Mary's. Now this is just a gut feeling, but Flo should have had the lead on These Boots Are Made for Walking--I think she had the best voice for that kind of song

[RanRan79]

I would have preferred if Florence sang something more up-tempo and cheerful. I think that would have done her good. Would ain't that good news been a good choice as add on to their already Sam Cooke medley and have Flo sing it?

I think it's as I said before, Florence loved the song and so she figured why not sing it? It's an obviously popular song, covered many times so can't be a stretch to figure that Flo might be one of the fans. But as a Flo fan, yeah I would've preferred something where the things I love about her voice are on display more. "Good News" showcases that she could rock, but don't sleep on her abilities with a ballad. She killed her verse on the album version of "Makes No Difference Now". I think it's as someone said before [[it might have been you) that Flo needed arrangements that would allow her to stretch out. There's a point in "People" where the song segues from the initial slow pace and kind of picks up a bit into more of a jazzy pace. Perhaps if the song had been that way from the start, I might enjoy Flo on it more. Plus for much of their version of the song, Flo is singing lead but she also has to work in tandem with the harmony of the other two. Compare that to Diana's version in 1968 where she only has to work with the music and you get this incredible vocal. [[Diana's "People" is one of my favorite Diana Ross vocals ever.) Maybe if Flo were truly given "People" as a Flo solo- no Supremes- she may have done something different with the lead. "Oh Holy Night" has an even slower pace than "People" and Flo sang the shit out of that, so who knows what might have been with a different spin.

As for "Good News", it should've been part of the medley. The problem is that I love when they do "Shake" and it makes an energetic finale to the medley. So would the medley move into "Good News" and then "Shake"? If so, Flo might be a tough act to follow if she could kill it as good or better than how she did it in the studio. But if they did "Shake" and then "Good News", it is as Sup pointed out in another thread that it would mean ending on a Flo note and not a Diana one which Gordy wasn't going to go for.

But it would've been nice if Flo had gotten some other moments during the live act, lead singing wise. Would've loved to hear her tackle Martha's "My Baby Loves Me", maybe during a nod to their labelmates, like how the Tops did "You Can't Hurry Love".

[RanRan79]

But if I had to pick a favorite PEOPLE, it is Diana's solo version from the FUNNY GIRL album.

Yes, of the versions I've heard from various people, Diana's in my fav.

[khansperac]

The version with Florence and Diana sharing leads is a perfect example of the difference in their voices. No disrespect to Florence, but although she technically has a “better” voice than Diana, her verse is dull and boring. The song doesn’t come to life until Diana sings her verse. She breathes life into the lyric. That’s the difference between their voices.

[TYK1986]

Yes Ran I was thinking the same after I wrote my post. I think both Berry and Diana wouldn't want Flo to do Ain't that good news as it would distract the attention away from Diana singing her parts in the medley. I also think Florence sounded good on some of the bit of Liverpool sessions. Probably not a popular choice but I love Florence on "I saw him standing there" and her very audible vocals on "Hard day's night". Maybe as a tribute to their biggest rivals "the Beatles" they could have added one of these songs to their act and have Florence sing one of them. Just not at the end lol.

Has Florence ever publicly said that she liked the song "People" or how she felt about it taken out of their shows. As we know the song was still in their act in 66'. Like some said I don't hate Florence on the song. I think she sounds ok but I just don't like the song. Don't like it when Barbara sings it and don't like it when Diana sings it. Are there any interviews in which Florence mentions what her favourite songs are? I know of the short interview after an Ed Sullivan performance in which she says that "Where did our love go" was her favourite Supremes song.....I think it was staged and that she had to say it or maybe she changed her mind and actually did like the song.

[RanRan79]

The version with Florence and Diana sharing leads is a perfect example of the difference in their voices. No disrespect to Florence, but although she technically has a “better” voice than Diana, her verse is dull and boring. The song doesn’t come to life until Diana sings her verse. She breathes life into the lyric. That’s the difference between their voices.

While I disagree with this being the bottom line difference between them, I do agree that Diana's, and later Mary's, turn on the song gives it some interesting energy not present before it. Is it their voices or the arrangement of the verse? I don't know, especially since I'm not one to consider Mary's lead voice during the 60s as particularly interesting, most of the time.

To your point though, similarly I feel the same way about "Makes No Difference Now". Flo's verse has the song in a great place and then Diana comes in behind it and the energy level drops off tremendously. It's not that she sounds bad, but it is a bit boring. I don't object to Mary starting the song off, but Florence should've finished it, like how "Sunset" is constructed. Now on "Sunset" Mary sounds great and then Diana comes in and the song gets even better.

[RanRan79]

Yes Ran I was thinking the same after I wrote my post. I think both Berry and Diana wouldn't want Flo to do Ain't that good news as it would distract the attention away from Diana singing her parts in the medley. I also think Florence sounded good on some of the bit of Liverpool sessions. Probably not a popular choice but I love Florence on "I saw him standing there" and her very audible vocals on "Hard day's night". Maybe as a tribute to their biggest rivals "the Beatles" they could have added one of these songs to their act and have Florence sing one of them. Just not at the end lol.

Has Florence ever publicly said that she liked the song "People" or how she felt about it taken out of their shows. As we know the song was still in their act in 66'. Like some said I don't hate Florence on the song. I think she sounds ok but I just don't like the song. Don't like it when Barbara sings it and don't like it when Diana sings it. Are there any interviews in which Florence mentions what her favourite songs are? I know of the short interview after an Ed Sullivan performance in which she says that "Where did our love go" was her favourite Supremes song.....I think it was staged and that she had to say it or maybe she changed her mind and actually did like the song.

I don't think Diana would've minded Flo doing "Good News". Diana had a whole show to shine, and even though her ego seemed to grow by the day, I don't think it ever got so big- at least while Flo was in the group- that she would object to or even actively campaign against Flo doing the song. Obviously the opinions on "People" vary among us fans, but again, I have to point out that Gordy was obviously getting positive feedback from concertgoers and critics about Florence and "People" or it never would've remained in the act so long. Now "Good News" would've obviously taken the show in a different direction than "People" and I feel this Gordy might have had a problem with.

Flo said she chose "People" for herself, so I'd think she liked it.

[Levi Stubbs Tears]

I guess since Motown was the first 'cross-over' label [[talking about black vs white supposed tastes at the time) it may be the only one, but I wonder why Berry was so insistent on having Motown acts sing show tunes.

One performance of a show-tune or cover during a concert or TV appearance might be fine, but why the heck would you want Elton John or Frank Sinatra to put on a show and sing Motown tunes instead of their own popular stuff?

Was it just an American thing? I remember someone [[was it English singer Cilla Black?) complained she was supposed to go to New York supper clubs and sing torch songs that she hated that nobody in the club even actually seemed to listen to?

[RanRan79]

I guess since Motown was the first 'cross-over' label [[talking about black vs white supposed tastes at the time) it may be the only one, but I wonder why Berry was so insistent on having Motown acts sing show tunes.

One performance of a show-tune or cover during a concert or TV appearance might be fine, but why the heck would you want Elton John or Frank Sinatra to put on a show and sing Motown tunes instead of their own popular stuff?

Was it just an American thing? I remember someone [[was it English singer Cilla Black?) complained she was supposed to go to New York supper clubs and sing torch songs that she hated that nobody in the club even actually seemed to listen to?

Gordy was chasing the money. Had he focused on the Motown Sound alone, he would've still become uber rich and a legend in music. But at some point he set his sides on something bigger than just a music legend. That started with getting the Supremes into the major clubs and arenas where you didn't typically find so called rock and roll acts. Once they were successful, the push was to do the same with the others, which of course resulted in various degrees of success. If he could show that his acts could do more than the "usual" of what was expected of them, the sky's the limit, and so was the money. Hollywood was on his radar and you don't get there with Diana Ross singing "Baby Love" or even "I Hear A Symphony". Also, keep in mind that Gordy had a wide range of musical taste himself, and so having his major acts branch out into something other than R&B/pop, probably seemed like a natural way to go.

From my fan perspective though, all the show tunes, especially where the Supremes are concerned, is annoying. Yes, there's a lot of it that they recorded that I find to be fantastic music. No question these ladies could sing the hell out of those songs. But the world fell in love with the Supremes singing to the Motown Sound and, song for song, I'd rather hear those than the show tunes.

[floyjoy678]

I didn't mind the showtunes. In fact it often showcased the group as a whole and their harmonies. What I did mind though was when the show became uneven with 70% of it being showtunes and the rest being rushed, condensed versions of the hits. Somewhere was in the show for like 5 years. It should've been dropped after a year. They didn't change up their set often and that's a problem I had. They should've kept like 3 or 4 showtunes in the show but change them up every few months.

[sup_fan]

While I disagree with this being the bottom line difference between them, I do agree that Diana's, and later Mary's, turn on the song gives it some interesting energy not present before it. Is it their voices or the arrangement of the verse? I don't know, especially since I'm not one to consider Mary's lead voice during the 60s as particularly interesting, most of the time.

To your point though, similarly I feel the same way about "Makes No Difference Now". Flo's verse has the song in a great place and then Diana comes in behind it and the energy level drops off tremendously. It's not that she sounds bad, but it is a bit boring. I don't object to Mary starting the song off, but Florence should've finished it, like how "Sunset" is constructed. Now on "Sunset" Mary sounds great and then Diana comes in and the song gets even better.

i agree that Diana's lead on Makes No Difference is a bit thin but i think that's more attributed to her vocals being placed in the stratosphere. her lyric interpretation is still excellent as always. and i think Flo's interpretation on Makes is also very strong. all 3 girls are in excellent form. i just think diana's vocals would have come across better had she not been singing so high.

on People, both Mary and Diana benefited from essentially have a cadenza in the song - a cadenza is a musical term describing a section of a song where a soloist or featured player has a section of the piece where they can improvise and be free with the piece. not only does this allow them to show of some sort of technique but they have much greater ability to alter rhythm, interpretation, etc. Meanwhile the rest of the band or orchestra typically pauses or just provides the most simple or basic accompaniment.

Diana was naturally gifted in her interpretation skills so a cadenza would naturally be a place to show off. I think it would have been great to hear Flo do this section too. in order to really compare

[sup_fan]

I think it's as I said before, Florence loved the song and so she figured why not sing it? It's an obviously popular song, covered many times so can't be a stretch to figure that Flo might be one of the fans. But as a Flo fan, yeah I would've preferred something where the things I love about her voice are on display more. "Good News" showcases that she could rock, but don't sleep on her abilities with a ballad. She killed her verse on the album version of "Makes No Difference Now". I think it's as someone said before [[it might have been you) that Flo needed arrangements that would allow her to stretch out. There's a point in "People" where the song segues from the initial slow pace and kind of picks up a bit into more of a jazzy pace. Perhaps if the song had been that way from the start, I might enjoy Flo on it more. Plus for much of their version of the song, Flo is singing lead but she also has to work in tandem with the harmony of the other two. Compare that to Diana's version in 1968 where she only has to work with the music and you get this incredible vocal. [[Diana's "People" is one of my favorite Diana Ross vocals ever.) Maybe if Flo were truly given "People" as a Flo solo- no Supremes- she may have done something different with the lead. "Oh Holy Night" has an even slower pace than "People" and Flo sang the shit out of that, so who knows what might have been with a different spin.

As for "Good News", it should've been part of the medley. The problem is that I love when they do "Shake" and it makes an energetic finale to the medley. So would the medley move into "Good News" and then "Shake"? If so, Flo might be a tough act to follow if she could kill it as good or better than how she did it in the studio. But if they did "Shake" and then "Good News", it is as Sup pointed out in another thread that it would mean ending on a Flo note and not a Diana one which Gordy wasn't going to go for.

But it would've been nice if Flo had gotten some other moments during the live act, lead singing wise. Would've loved to hear her tackle Martha's "My Baby Loves Me", maybe during a nod to their labelmates, like how the Tops did "You Can't Hurry Love".

yeah it would be hard to top Shake. Plus it was a top ten hit in it's own right and one of Sam Cook's last hits [[posthumously). but the medley had several high points prior to Shake so maybe it would have worked earlier. when the girls go into 3 part harmony on Bring It To me, you can hear the audiences really applaud.

Maybe start with You Send Me, then slow it down for Sentimental Reasons and let Mary sing lead. then Cupid. Then Chain Gang [[both Diana lead), then Good News with Flo. Then Bring It and finally Shake.

[sup_fan]

I didn't mind the showtunes. In fact it often showcased the group as a whole and their harmonies. What I did mind though was when the show became uneven with 70% of it being showtunes and the rest being rushed, condensed versions of the hits. Somewhere was in the show for like 5 years. It should've been dropped after a year. They didn't change up their set often and that's a problem I had. They should've kept like 3 or 4 showtunes in the show but change them up every few months.

agreed. the addition of other styles of music and songs into their act was a brilliant move because it showed DMF as well rounded, versatile entertainers. someone mentioned Frank Sinatra only performing his material. not at all. Frank made total bank by displaying versatility. Frank hit big in the 40s as part of the teeny bopper set but then his career stalled until he hit up Vegas. he also then appeared in big budget Hollywood musicals like Guys and Dolls, On The Town. His act was often full of a full range of musical styles and tastes.

with the supremes hitting it big in 64, the most lucrative outlets for show business were the big supper clubs. hence the whole Copa strategy. But the girls were singing all sorts of material well prior to this. Their ability to adapt to all of these was the primary reason Gordy focused on them. he could see that they had the goods to sing a varied act and appeal to these clubs [[and the money generated there).

I still think the problem was their inflexibility with altering their stage act. and this really didn't seem apparent until the name change. when DRATS played a college gig [[which they did a lot of), i would hope they did more hits and less IHAS medley. then when they played the Waldorf or Vegas, sure - pile on the MOR stuff

when i did all of that research on the Billboard rankings, I saw that Billboard began issuing in 1964 an issue that focused on Music On Campus to address the teen and young adult market. it was mostly filled with dates big acts were playing at colleges, ads for acts and how to book acts. the Sups were listed in there earlier on until music really got more aggressive in the later 60s. i didn't bother to read through all of them because they really weren't part of the research i was doing. but the girls weren't really advertising in these issues any longer.

just as Berry was wildly adept at spotting out the opportunity to grow and profit with the MOR/Supper club route, he and motown were wildly INEPT at tackling the youth and campus market that emerged. the Temps sort of hit this. Stevie did eventually too but i believe that was more due to his breaking free and touring with the Stones.

[supremesouluk2]

sounds like they're just say "ren" as in childREN lolol

do they sing "Play"?