The Supremes Dury Lane Theatre 1977

[marv2]

Rona Barrett. That's a name people barely remember these days. Where is she? And Earl "what's his name?" You can't even remember his name. If you're referring to Earl WILSON. His time had come & gone by 1977. Who was reading his column?
I don't revise history, but state what I remember and the Supremes' farewell in 1977 wasn't major news because most people didn't care by 1977. If it got such major press attention and masses of people around the world knew about it, why did Mary rehire two Supremes for that tour of South America or wherever?

Earl Wilson's column originated from the New York Post and ran from 1942 until 1983.

[marv2]

Marv

Are you sure Motown owned the name? There was a lot of stuff going on a few years later about Mary giving up her share of the name. Or was that all a smoke screen?

Yeah, Motown owned the name in 1977. Mary was granted 50% ownership in 1974 but stood only to benefit from it if the name or company were sold. She sued Motown's ass in 1977, they settled. hehehehehe! In 1990, Mary and Berry Gordy sat down and had a "conversation" about the name. There was money involved is all I know! LOL!!!

[Kamasu_Jr]

Yeah, Motown owned the name in 1977. Mary was granted 50% ownership in 1974 but stood only to benefit from it if the name or company were sold. She sued Motown's ass in 1977, they settled. hehehehehe! In 1990, Mary and Berry Gordy sat down and had a "conversation" about the name. There was money involved is all I know! LOL!!!

How does a company - a non-human entity made up of individuals - have an ass?
You see John, how untruths and distortions get repeated as facts. Read your history books on Motown. And if JobeteRob were here, he could gather information from sources regarding that lawsuit. The way I read, someone got played and it wasn't Motown.

[chestersong]

Amen, about internet photos!
Mary wanted back into the group and I wouldn't be surprised if this tour wasn't her way of showing just how bad she wanted the supremes back for billing.

[luke]

Mary owned half the right to the name IF Motown sold it. And apparently Berry sold the name along with Motown in the 80s. I think Mary referred to it and said he got $1!!!! Unreal. The Supremes were on the upswing in '76. However, Mary seems to say in her book that the group getting booed at MSG was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[captainjames]

If I remember correctly didn't Mary cave or give up her rights and claim to the Supremes ? I remember being told that she had them and didn't know it so she caved.

[theboyfromxtown]

Kamasu

Us guys in the UK always got very limited information. We don't have access to the sources you guys have in the States.

I am sure the UK only got an "official version" and you learn [[over the years) to take it with a pinch of salt.

[marv2]

How does a company - a non-human entity made up of individuals - have an ass?
You see John, how untruths and distortions get repeated as facts. Read your history books on Motown. And if JobeteRob were here, he could gather information from sources regarding that lawsuit. The way I read, someone got played and it wasn't Motown.

No, see you really don't know what you are talking about.

[marv2]

Mary owned half the right to the name IF Motown sold it. And apparently Berry sold the name along with Motown in the 80s. I think Mary referred to it and said he got $1!!!! Unreal. The Supremes were on the upswing in '76. However, Mary seems to say in her book that the group getting booed at MSG was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Yeah, well we told her and all of them not to do it [[that MSG gig), but noooooooooo! LOL!

[marv2]

If I remember correctly didn't Mary cave or give up her rights and claim to the Supremes ? I remember being told that she had them and didn't know it so she caved.

Nah, she didn't cave in. She explains in detail what happened in her Updated book from 2000. She does not go into detail about her talk with Berry in 1990. Although I know they did and there was a resolution satisfactory to both parties at that time.

[marv2]

Kamasu

Us guys in the UK always got very limited information. We don't have access to the sources you guys have in the States.

I am sure the UK only got an "official version" and you learn [[over the years) to take it with a pinch of salt.

What you have in Mary's books and what I am telling here is about all that can and will be said about it all.

[marv2]

Amen, about internet photos!
Mary wanted back into the group and I wouldn't be surprised if this tour wasn't her way of showing just how bad she wanted the supremes back for billing.

You are wrong. That is not what Mary says! LOL!

[Kamasu_Jr]

I'M STILL LOOKING FOR MY COMPANY'S ASS SO I CAN SUE IT. BUT APPARENTLY IT DOESN'T HAVE ONE.

[marv2]

I'M STILL LOOKING FOR MY COMPANY'S ASS SO I CAN SUE IT. BUT APPARENTLY IT DOESN'T HAVE ONE.

Weren't you born the year after all this happened? LOL!

[Kamasu_Jr]

weren't you born the year after all this happened? Lol!

I was born the year it happened. But my dad kept detailed files including press releases from Motown, clippings from Soul newspaper, etc. I've been reading since I was three.

[smark21]

Didn't Mary and Pedro start a company called Supremes, Inc? And it was Supremes, Inc that had to keep the contractual obligation for that South American tour?

[marv2]

Didn't Mary and Pedro start a company called Supremes, Inc? And it was Supremes, Inc that had to keep the contractual obligation for that South American tour?

That is true! However, Mary was led to believe that everything involving the Supremes was being turned over to Scherrie Payne, Susaye Greene and Motown! When she learned different, she had to get out there on that road and sing "Baby Love" or get sued! LOL!

[captainjames]

Wow this seems like so long ago but you are right the contract agreement was through Supreme Inc. And it was through that contract that the keeper of it was responsible. Susaye, I am sure would remember it better. Susaye and Scherrie were not responsible for those tour dates and any promises made by mouth was simply that....... "by mouth".

Didn't Mary and Pedro start a company called Supremes, Inc? And it was Supremes, Inc that had to keep the contractual obligation for that South American tour?

[skooldem1]

What I don't understand is how can Mary go out and declare she was leaving the group. Did she not know, or did her husband/manager not remember he booked those dates?

[captainjames]

.................Ok now I am going t leave that one alone.

What I don't understand is how can Mary go out and declare she was leaving the group. Did she not know, or did her husband/manager not remember he booked those dates?

[skooldem1]

Its been a while since I read her second book. I don't recall the circumstances.

[luke]

Marv-has Motown ever explained why they fought Mary on the name when the Vandellas, Temptations etc got theirs "back"?

[tomato tom]

I remember meeting Scherrie later, and she was a real sweetheart. I remember her vividly saying, after we had a brief chat, sorry, gotta go, we gotta lot to get through..Will never forget that. Its what makes us fans forever, no?...Paulo xxx

[marv2]

Marv-has Motown ever explained why they fought Mary on the name when the Vandellas, Temptations etc got theirs "back"?

They never explained it officially, at least not to me. But you have to know that they knew that there was a ton of money to be potentially made from "The Supremes" back catalog of recordings. As Abner once implied, they could have put any three female singers out there and call them the Supremes legally. Whether the public would buy that is another matter entirely.

[luke]

Well thats kind of fallacious reasoning as the Tempts got their name back and Im sure have continued to generate royalties for their recordings to Motown.

[StuartUK]

any chance anyone could send a copy of the show please. Even though I live in england have never heard this. Please email me at neil_dud@hotmail.com with subject as supremes please.

thanks

Neil

I have a cd copy of this show and the playlist is:

[[Band and intro)
Everybody gets to go to the moon
Let yourself go
Stoned love
[[Dialogue)
The way we were
Maybe this time
Someday we'll be together
You keep me hanging on
Where did our love go
Baby love
Love child
Stop in the name of love
My world is empty without you
[[Intro Susaye): I don't want to bore you
[[Intro Scherrie): What about today
[[Dialogue: Mary)
Your song
How lucky can you get
I'm gonna let my heart do the walking

It last about 50 minutes in all. The 'old' Supremes segment lasts about 10 minutes

[StuartUK]

Forgive me for asking this of you as you dont even know me nor i you. But any chance you could email me a rip of that cd to me please?? I would be very greatful.

any chance anyone could send a copy of the show please. Even though I live in england have never heard this. Please email me at neil_dud@hotmail.com with subject as supremes please.

thanks

Neil

[Drew P. Nads]

Forgive me for asking this of you as you dont even know me nor i you. But any chance you could email me a rip of that cd to me please?? I would be very greatful.

On it's way tomorrow!

[luke]

What was said by the ladies at that last show about the future of the Supremes?

[marv2]

What was said by the ladies at that last show about the future of the Supremes?

Susaye is a member here. Maybe you could ask her ?

[theboyfromxtown]

What was said by the ladies at that last show about the future of the Supremes?

As far as I recall, nothing was said. After the show us fans were outside the theatre screaming and shouting for the ladies to greet us and to explain what was happening. Whilst we were waiting, there was a lot of discussion [[as a a result of confusion and lack of information) about what was or was not going to happen.

[luke]

Interesting, thanks boy. So was the focus during the show just on Mary leaving as opposed to the Surpemes stopping?

[theboyfromxtown]

Luke

Not really, it was the Supremes and we were just happy to see them. Sure, there were lots of unanswered questions but it was a great show and those issues only happened after the show had finished and fans were eager to know about the future.

Mary brought out Turkessa [[which was so very endearing) and they toasted Motown's anniversary. Whilst the show was on, nobody cared about the future cos we were having such a good time.

As a Brit, I was very conscious that the last performance was in the UK and not in America. Even more so, it was in my home town in London and not in, say, Detroit. I felt a bit bad about that.

The UK embraced Susaye and Scherrie with open arms. The three girls together were a class act and it really was a shame that there was no more. But hey, all good things come to an end. I was a bit upset that Partners wasn't released here and I shall never understand why that was so. That was a really good album.

[Ramone Verona]

But at that time, weren't the Supremes still going to continue on?
It was Mary's farewell, not the Supremes, correct?
Good thing the show WAS in the UK because, sadly, at that time in their careers, the States would have been quite passé over "the situation". We throw our artists away, unfortunately.

[theboyfromxtown]

Ramone

US Brits were not as privy as you guys to the wealth of information available. And I think it's fair to say that we were not sure if the Supremes were to continue.

I regretfully have to agree with you, America does regard many of the artists as passe. Brenda Holloway, Kim Weston, Chris Clark and the Velvelettes have all said that to me and I don't understand why that should be. Yet when these artists do perform, they earn excellent reviews.

[luke]

I am a bit confused. Wasnt the show advertised as a farewell show?

[chestersong]

it was "Farewell to Mary". in the final show, both Mary and the others wish each other well in their futures; as a solo act and as they continue on as the supremes. have you not been fortunate enough to have heard the bootlegs? and the new Final Sessions also describes what went down.

[theboyfromxtown]

Luke-I thought it was the Supremes farewell show when I booked but by the time of the concert, I wasn't so sure. Others were also confused. Supremes fans are notorious for having insider information and convincing the rest of us of it. I listened to that gossp and was confused.

Chestersong-I don't remember that at all and I don't have bootlegs. Who wrote it in the liner notes for Final Sessions?

[luke]

Shouldnt Scherrie and Susaye have honored the contracts??

[kenneth]

I know that Mary discusses this issue in her "Supreme Faith" book, but I'm not sure it answers Luke's question. I'm guessing that the contracts, which by that time I believe were negotiated by Mary's then husband Pedro Ferrer, were specific as to Mary being part of the trio. That might explain why Motown wasn't able to effect the MW replacement and honor the remaining gig commitments with Payne and Greene. Another possibility is simply that Motown decided on its own to abandon the idea of perpetuating the Supremes group with a new third member so simply decided to let MW and two backup singers work off whatever commitments remained.

[luke]

Thx boy and Kenneth. Didnt Motown threaten Mary per the name Supremes went SHE went to fulfill the obligation?! They didnt waste any time harassing Miss Wilson!

[Ramone Verona]

And it has to due will Mary and her "Supremes Corporation" at the time.
She hired Scherrie and Susaye, but contracts were under Mary's corp.
S & S didn't have to honor anything since the contracts didn't legally belong to them.
They were just hired hands at the time.
Rick B. can explain it much better and has in the past.
Yes the bootleg recording of that final concert has Scherrie wishing Mary the best and saying "Goodbye but not for long".
But before that and before Mary sings "How Lucky Can You Get", Mary SPECIFICALLY says that Scherrie and Susaye will be going on as the Supremes.
I'm sure somebody here can back that up.
Just listen to the recording.
Maybe that is where the confusion comes from since history showed this would be their last concert.
I can't see any specific author listed on the FS liner notes so maybe it was a combined effort.
The liner notes have Scherrie saying that they had picked Joyce and were writing songs when one day an "edict" came down saying the group was done per Motown, or whoever.

[chestersong]

Susaye is quoted in the booklet saying that there was a meeting in L.A. where motown executives told Susaye and Scherrie that Mary and Pedro were leaving but to get a third girl and continue as the supremes. what i was surprised to read was the part where motown wanted Mary to reform the group in 1983 with Scherrie and Cindy but that "terms" were never reached. what were the terms? what prompted motown? was it the publicity around Motown 25 anniversary? why Scherrie and Cindy? what about the other girls? did Scherrie and Cindy want this bad for themselves? i don't remember Mary giving details in any of her books. so many questions. somebody here will know a few answers, at least.

[marybrewster]

This is one subject I've always been interested in.

Going off memory, I believe the MSC reunion was discussed following the success of the movie "The Big Chill" and the semi-successful reunion of the Temptations. Suddenly there was an interest in all things Motown, and Motown wanted to capitalize on it. Mary states in "Supreme Faith" [[forgive me, I am paraphrazing here) that Suzanne dePasse was laying the groundwork, and there was never any question that Diana would return [[by this time, wasn't she at RCA anyway?) that it would be Scherrie and Cindy. Mary went to Berry to get his thoughts on a "reunion" or "regrouping" and Berry showed little to no interest. That's most likely why negotiations never went any further.

[chestersong]

oh that's right. i remember Mary saying something like if Berry wasn't behind it then she wasn't going to chance it. maybe Mary chose these girls since she always said she got along with them and they were the most dedicated.

[theboyfromxtown]

Ramone

You can see how confusing it was to poor mites like me. The fans were also contributing various theories and making the situation even more unclear. As you noted, Rick Bueche can explain it in more detail.

Didn't the Supremes go to South Africa afterwards.

Next thing I knew, Mary was on stage in the UK with 2 girls [[including Karen Ragland) in a theatre not generally associated with the Supremes.

Ramone is the Joyce, Joyce Vincent? I am a fan of that lady. That would have been an excellent choice.

[luke]

Cindy was quoted at the time 1982 per the reunion possibly coming. I think it was Mary, Cindy and Scherrie as they had the best chemistry and got along best.

[theboyfromxtown]

As much as I am also a fan of Cindy, I would not wish to sound disrespectful by saying that Susaye was in a class of her own.

[dickiemint]

David Nathan's soulmusic.com has some Supremes interviews from this time on his page, along with some footage of the Montraex performance, where Susaye is interveiwed and says that she and Scherrie were going to continue as the Supremes, but writing and producing their own material, but keep the 60's medley in the live show, an interesting read .

[Ramone Verona]

Those sped up sixties medleys were my least favorite spot in hearing copies of their live shows. Save for Scherrie's "My World", which she took to a wonderful new level. I would have preferred more of their current album or covers with their great harmonies, like "Everybody Gets To Go To The Moon".