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  1. #1

    The supremes mary,florence,diana were on ed sullivan, not diana alone,it's history

    Yes,OPRAH is a big fan of DIANA ROSS,and there's nothing wrong with that,there's a lot of DIANA ROSS fans in the world,And there's a love of SUPREMES fans also,but you can't rewrite HISTORY,ED SULLIVAN introduced THE SUPREMES,MARY WILSON FLORENCE BALLARD AND DIANA ROSS,And later,DIANA ROSS AND THE SUPREMES,MARY WILSON AND CINDY BIRDSONG,To his TV audience,As OPRAH has said,in the past,when she saw THE SUPREMES on THE ED SULLIVAN,it gave her hope,but on her show 02-25-2011,it's has change to,watching DIANA ROSS on THE ED SULLIVAN SHOW,DIANA ROSS was never on his show as a solo act,I love ORAPH,but you can't chaner HISTORY,i was a little disappointed,It seems like OPRAH idolize DIANA,and there's nothing wrong with that,we all have idolized someone,but come on,the world fell in love with THE SUPREMES in the 60s,and that includes,MARY WILSON FLORENCE AND DIANA ROSS,and don't be so hard on DIANA, on OPRAH,It was a 3 hour show,editing it down to one hour.OPRAH is in charge.
    Please stay positive

  2. #2
    Oprah has also said that Diana was the first black woman on TV!!!! I have contacted her with no response asking if she
    ever watched American Bandstand. Long before the Supremes became Supreme, Dee Dee Sharp, Mary Wells, Little Eva,
    the Crystals, the Ronettes, Martha & the Vandellas, the Marvelettes, and much too many to name were on Dick Clark's
    show. Oprah makes it sound that before the Supremes became hit-makers, young black performers just didn't even
    exist. I'd love to give her a rock and roll history lesson.
    Dee Dee Sharp played big showrooms in Vegas long before the Supremes got there.

  3. #3
    And, then, let's not forget performers like Eartha Kitt, Sarah Vaughn, etc. Not the young rock & rollers, but certainly known
    to television audiences in the '50s.

  4. #4
    You have to take what Oprah says with a big grain of salt! She gushes over Tina Turner the same way. She is simply taking advantage of the fact that she has a television show and has tried several times to promote Diana Ross over others and it never works. Diane has not experienced any true tangible benefits from being on the Oprah Winfrey show which in itself is amazing. She went on that show to promote her book, her CD "Everyday", her "RTL Tour" etc,etc and they all failed! So Oprah pretending that she only saw Diana Ross on the Ed Sullivan Show and before that there were no Black people, Black women on television is ludicrious! I learned my history lesson long before there was an Oprah Winfrey Show and I was also around long enough to have seen other famous Black performers on television before the Supremes and Diana Ross!

    Now the fact that Diana Ross is the only one to inspire her is fine, but to say that all little girls watching TV in 1964 were inspired by Diane is a huge exaggeration! I heard her use the term "Dare to Dream", so evidently as quiet as it's kept, she must have been paying attention to another Supreme
    Last edited by marv2; 02-28-2011 at 04:37 PM.

  5. #5
    How true! And that Ed Sullivan performance was NOT the Supremes first TV appearance, as Oprah has stated.

  6. #6
    You are exactly right! I saw them on the Bill Kennedy Show months before they were on Ed Sullivan.

  7. #7
    Before Sullivan they did Shindig and American Bandstand and I think even Steve Allen.

  8. #8
    I must say, i agree with all the above,and i'll say it again,you can't change HISTORY,THE SUPREMES MARY WILSON FLORENCE BALLARD AND DIANA ROSS made HISTORY,thanks to MOTOWN'S BERRY GORDY.
    Please stay positive

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by randy_russi View Post
    Before Sullivan they did Shindig and American Bandstand and I think even Steve Allen.
    You may be right about Bandstand, but I believe Shindig came later in '65. I was thinking, I bet a woman like Diahann Carroll is sitting somewhere wondering what the hell was she doing prior to the Supremes performing on Ed Sullivan! LOL

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by REDHOT View Post
    I must say, i agree with all the above,and i'll say it again,you can't change HISTORY,THE SUPREMES MARY WILSON FLORENCE BALLARD AND DIANA ROSS made HISTORY,thanks to MOTOWN'S BERRY GORDY.
    Please stay positive
    True, so very true. Thanks Redhot!

  11. #11
    I am reluctant to enter into this elementary discussion; however, someone must at least attempt to inject a sense of logic here.

    Do y'all really think Oprah literally meant that the Supremes were the first black folks one television? LMAO?! Even though there is a mountain of evidence to contradict a claim as significant as that?!! Lord and have mercy. Instead, and bear with me here, LOL!, do you suppose she could have meant that the Supremes appearance on Ed Sullivan was the first time that blacks appeared on television as harbingers of their own culture? This was the first time a group of black individuals appeared on national television, singing their own music, written by African-American writers, choreographed by African- American choreographers, and being promoted by an African-American owned company. Additionally, The Ed Sullivan Show was an American staple. Appearing on such a program was significant because it meant your appearance was viewed my almost everyone in American. American Bandstand was significant, but it's was marketed to teenagers; Sullivan's audience was the entire country. See the difference?

    I wonder why I even took the time to type this because I know it will bear no significance to those who have their own agendas and who are hell bent on finding diversion where none exists. Carry on!

  12. #12
    I think they did Shindig in '64--Baby Love and Come See About Me, prior to the Sullivan show. Sullivan was done in December
    '64. Come See was just released, I think, when they did Shindig. They also did Hullabaloo for Come See About Me and
    I think this may have been before Sullivan. They did Amer. Bndstnd. for Where Did Our Love Go when they were on tour
    with Dick Clark.

  13. #13
    Miss Lish, I agree with you.

    I'm sure Oprah knows her history. Some shows inspire you more than others. And that is in the eye of the beholder.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by miss_lish View Post
    I am reluctant to enter into this elementary discussion; however, someone must at least attempt to inject a sense of logic here.

    Do y'all really think Oprah literally meant that the Supremes were the first black folks one television? LMAO?! Even though there is a mountain of evidence to contradict a claim as significant as that?!! Lord and have mercy. Instead, and bear with me here, LOL!, do you suppose she could have meant that the Supremes appearance on Ed Sullivan was the first time that blacks appeared on television as harbingers of their own culture? This was the first time a group of black individuals appeared on national television, singing their own music, written by African-American writers, choreographed by African- American choreographers, and being promoted by an African-American owned company. Additionally, The Ed Sullivan Show was an American staple. Appearing on such a program was significant because it meant your appearance was viewed my almost everyone in American. American Bandstand was significant, but it's was marketed to teenagers; Sullivan's audience was the entire country. See the difference?

    I wonder why I even took the time to type this because I know it will bear no significance to those who have their own agendas and who are hell bent on finding diversion where none exists. Carry on!
    Well said Miss Lish. You also notice the biggest complainers arethe usual Mary Wilson fanatics? SHE IS NOT GOING TO BE ON OPRAH. The fact that Diana Ross (an icon) was on the most powerful black woman's show in TV history is killing these haters. Be glad in 2011, you see black people on TV dong being positive and being recognized, period.
    Last edited by Motown_M_1056; 02-28-2011 at 05:54 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by 1382hitsville View Post
    Miss Lish, I agree with you.

    I'm sure Oprah knows her history. Some shows inspire you more than others. And that is in the eye of the beholder.
    If you don't like a person or a show, don't watch it. The blessing and the beauty of our country is we have the freedom to watch what we want.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by randy_russi View Post
    I think they did Shindig in '64--Baby Love and Come See About Me, prior to the Sullivan show. Sullivan was done in December
    '64. Come See was just released, I think, when they did Shindig. They also did Hullabaloo for Come See About Me and
    I think this may have been before Sullivan. They did Amer. Bndstnd. for Where Did Our Love Go when they were on tour
    with Dick Clark.
    You are making some really good points, especially what you said earlier about the Steve Allen Show. I know Mary Wells and Martha & the Vandellas also did American Bandstand in like '62 or '63 when the show was still out of Philadelphia.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown_M_1056 View Post
    Well said Miss Lish. You also notice the biggest complainers arethe usual Mary Wilson fanatics? SHE IS NOT GOING TO BE ON OPRAH. The fact that Diana Ross (an icon) was on the most powerful black woman's show in TV history is killing these haters. Be glad in 2011, you see black people on TV dong being positive and being recognized, period.
    There is nothing fanatical about being factual! Now Diane can go on there every week, it will not improve things for her in terms of her career.
    Last edited by marv2; 02-28-2011 at 06:15 PM.

  18. #18
    I'll just say that I agree with what miss lish said. And I'll leave it at that before y'all turn this into a personal civil war.

  19. #19
    midnightman

    But will you still run for cover!!

    HA-HA

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    There is nothing fanatical about being factual! Now Diane can go on there every week, it will not improve things for her in terms of her career.
    When you've reached ICON status like Diana Ross, you don't have to do much in terms of your career. ICONS can rest or coast on their laurels if they desire to do so. They are always relevant. ICONS have already done much to leave a mark on history. They've changed or impacted culture and influenced people. ICONS like Diana Ross just show up somewhere and most people already know and respect them. ICONS don't need or have to sell or promote anything.
    Last edited by Motown_M_1056; 02-28-2011 at 07:25 PM.

  21. #21
    Oprah needs to go back on her diet. She is very selective about history and her diet. Unfortunately she chooses to ignore the healthy benefits of not being into denial.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motown_M_1056 View Post
    When you've reached ICON status like Diana Ross, you don't have to do much in terms of your career. ICONS can rest or coast on their laurels if they desire to do so. They are always relevant. ICONS have already done much to leave a mark on history. They've changed or impacted culture and influenced people. ICONS like Diana Ross just show up somewhere and most people already know and respect them. ICONS don't need or have to sell or promote anything.

    Ms ross as well as the orginal group The Supremes - all have become ICONS - dead or alive - however - of course there were many Icons still living - and some dead before The SUpremes.

    Diana Ross did a simple nice TV appearance on Oprah's last season. THAT IS ALL - I am sure Oprah will have others she loves on before she says her final goodbyes.

    That is all this is - no need for a huge nasty debate.

  23. #23
    I'm not debating or being nasty with anyone. I stated my opinion AND WHAT IS FACTUAL. Diana Ross is an ICON. And she's been a solo performer longer than she was a Supreme so much of her iconic status was attained long after she left the Supremes.
    Last edited by Motown_M_1056; 02-28-2011 at 08:46 PM.

  24. #24
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    Tell me something i do not know. However - may I point out that Ms. Ross is just one of many Icons still roaming the earth - and is not the be all end all, to most of us.

    She is a good entertainer - but I would not take a bullet for her. Nor would she for any of her devoted fanantics.

    Don't play.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by topdiva1 View Post
    Tell me something i do not know. However - may I point out that Ms. Ross is just one of many Icons still roaming the earth - and is not the be all end all, to most of us.

    She is a good entertainer - but I would not take a bullet for her. Nor would she for any of her devoted fanantics.

    Don't play.
    No one has asked you to take a bullet for her OR even acknowledge her status as a true cultural icon. Give your validation and admiration to whomever you choose. Real icons don't need it.
    Last edited by Motown_M_1056; 02-28-2011 at 09:25 PM.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown_M_1056 View Post
    I'm not debating or being nasty with anyone. I stated my opinion AND WHAT IS FACTUAL. Diana Ross is an ICON. And she's been a solo performer longer than she was a Supreme so much of her iconic status was attained long after she left the Supremes.
    They are all icons. There would be no "Diana Ross Solo...." if it weren't for the Supremes success.

  27. #27
    I wonder how many people that saw the Beatles on The Ed Sullivan Show in 1964, turn around today and characterize that historic appearance as "the time they saw PAUL McCartney" on the Sullivan show changed my friggin' life! LOL!!!!!

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    They are all icons. There would be no "Diana Ross Solo...." if it weren't for the Supremes success.
    How does 8 or 10 years with a group compare with 40 years of performing on your own? It doesn't add up or balance out to me.
    Last edited by Motown_M_1056; 02-28-2011 at 09:39 PM.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown_M_1056 View Post
    How does 8 or 10 years with a group compare with 40 years of performing on your own? It doesn't add up or balance out to me.
    Well since you want to go there. They did have twice the number of number one hit records in those 8 to 10 years than she has had solo in 40! Doesn't add up to or balance out to me either..................!
    Last edited by marv2; 02-28-2011 at 10:42 PM.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Well since you want to go there. They did have twice the number of number one hit records in those 8 to 10 years than she has had solo in 40! Doiesn't add up to or balance out to me either..................!
    Hit records be damned - the woman has held it down as a cultural ICON and a legendary entertainer ...without the Supremes and on her own for 40 years. Remember, true ICONS don't need hit records...those are mere triffles when you compare everything else they've achieved.
    Last edited by Motown_M_1056; 02-28-2011 at 10:01 PM.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown_M_1056 View Post
    Hit records be damned - the woman has held it down as a cultural ICON and a legendary entertainer ...without the Supremes and on her own for 40 years. Remember, true ICONS don't need hit records...those are mere triffles when you compare everything else they've achieved.
    I am sure Mary and the others will appreciate those sentiments as well. Thank you!

  32. #32
    I'm sure you will give her my sentiments.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    They are all icons. There would be no "Diana Ross Solo...." if it weren't for the Supremes success.
    With all respect, Marv, you don't KNOW that. To keep the debate pure & transparent, you can't make statements like that, simply because they're not solid facts. There are liars enough on this board, as it is.
    Even without The Supremes having been successfull, Diana's talents more than likely could/would have been discovered at some point in the sixties.

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by robbert View Post
    With all respect, Marv, you don't KNOW that. To keep the debate pure & transparent, you can't make statements like that, simply because they're not solid facts. There are liars enough on this board, as it is.
    Even without The Supremes having been successfull, Diana's talents more than likely could/would have been discovered at some point in the sixties.
    Robbert, I am only speaking factually, not hypothetically. The success of the Supremes was a springboard for the future success of Diana Ross solo artist. She's even said that using different words of course. I can say what I did with confidence because that is what happened. I cannot say the same if it were any other way because that would be pure speculation.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Motown_M_1056 View Post
    I'm not debating or being nasty with anyone. I stated my opinion AND WHAT IS FACTUAL. Diana Ross is an ICON. And she's been a solo performer longer than she was a Supreme so much of her iconic status was attained long after she left the Supremes.
    One shouldn't worship graven images.

  36. #36
    According to the collegiate dictionary, a graven image is an idol or fetish carved in or made from wood or stone. I didn't see anyone saying they worshipped anyone or anything made of or carved into wood or stone. Maybe Sister Roberta will weigh in on this.
    Last edited by Kamasu_Jr; 02-28-2011 at 10:46 PM.

  37. #37
    Much of the content on this thread and most Supremes, Wilson and Ross threads across the internet really boil down to the attitudes of hard core fans and the defensiveness they inspire as well as their persistent need to pit Ross against Wilson and/or Ross against the Supremes. I wish hard core Ross fans who've dismissed the Supremes over the years would stop it and acknowledge how good the group was as a group. Likewise, hardcore Wilson and Supremes fans who've put down Ross solo over the years need to acknowledge that Ross did bring something special to the group which continued when she went solo. The Supremes had star quality as a group but Ross had star quality, not just as a part of a charismatic ensemble, but also on her own.

  38. #38
    Yeah Marv, but it could have helped a whole generation of young people like my kids,nieces and nephews,cousins know about more than Micheal Jackson,Diana Ross,Stevie Wonder. They know the Supremes,J5,Tempts and Tops but explain Mary Who?,Jackie & Tito Who?

    It's Mary Wilson, who history like it or not along with the other Tops & Tempts who sang behind the lead singers are unknown,forgotten and the media and public often follow suit. Be honest set yourself aside from being Mary Wilson's #1 fan. For example we all know Gladys Knight but who outside of this forum can name the 3 Pips who sang behind her for 30 yrs. No snide remarks be honest.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamasu_Jr View Post
    According to the collegiate dictionary, a graven image is an idol or fetish carved in or made from wood or stone. I didn't see anyone saying they worshipped anyone or anything made of or carved into wood or stone. Maybe Sister Roberta will weigh in on this.
    Well the good book of Exodus says the following. "And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them for I the Lord thy God"

    I only worship Jesus Christ my Lord and God. I may respect and love certain painters, photos, ornaments, singers and writers but I cannot worship at the feet of them.

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by motown4ever View Post
    Yeah Marv, but it could have helped a whole generation of young people like my kids,nieces and nephews,cousins know about more than Micheal Jackson,Diana Ross,Stevie Wonder. They know the Supremes,J5,Tempts and Tops but explain Mary Who?,Jackie & Tito Who?

    It's Mary Wilson, who history like it or not along with the other Tops & Tempts who sang behind the lead singers are unknown,forgotten and the media and public often follow suit. Be honest set yourself aside from being Mary Wilson's #1 fan. For example we all know Gladys Knight but who outside of this forum can name the 3 Pips who sang behind her for 30 yrs. No snide remarks be honest.
    I think many fans would like their favorite group to be like the Beatles, a group in which the general pubic knew and remembered the names of all 4 members. But The Beatles are the exception to the rule as their success, impact and influence was stratospheric, a once in a lifetime phenomenon. For all other groups, it's fortunate that the public remembers the name of one member. Ten years ago, most young people into pop music could probably name all the members of NSYNC or Destiny's Child, but nowadays, I'm sure most of them, except their hardcore fans, now ten years older and in a different stage of their lives, can only name the enduring stars that came from the group--Justin Timberlake and Beyonce. That's just how it is.

  41. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    Well the good book of Exodus says the following. "And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them for I the Lord thy God"

    I only worship Jesus Christ my Lord and God. I may respect and love certain painters, photos, ornaments, singers and writers but I cannot worship at the feet of them.
    I thought so. There is no OUR LADY OF DIANA ROSS church as far as I know. So who is worshipping there?

  42. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamasu_Jr View Post
    I thought so. There is no OUR LADY OF DIANA ROSS church as far as I know. So who is worshipping there?

    LOL. Well if there is I have yet to come across it and I have visited thousand of churches over the years.

  43. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by motown4ever View Post
    Yeah Marv, but it could have helped a whole generation of young people like my kids,nieces and nephews,cousins know about more than Micheal Jackson,Diana Ross,Stevie Wonder. They know the Supremes,J5,Tempts and Tops but explain Mary Who?,Jackie & Tito Who?

    It's Mary Wilson, who history like it or not along with the other Tops & Tempts who sang behind the lead singers are unknown,forgotten and the media and public often follow suit. Be honest set yourself aside from being Mary Wilson's #1 fan. For example we all know Gladys Knight but who outside of this forum can name the 3 Pips who sang behind her for 30 yrs. No snide remarks be honest.
    I don't know (who aside from those on this forum can name the three members of the Pips). I do know I am watching a clip of "Mary Wilson" in concert in Kiev from earlier this month now. The members of the Pips did not work outside of the context of "Gladys Knight & the Pips" aside from a very short recording obligation in the late 70's. As far as Tito?

  44. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by smark21 View Post
    I think many fans would like their favorite group to be like the Beatles, a group in which the general pubic knew and remembered the names of all 4 members. But The Beatles are the exception to the rule as their success, impact and influence was stratospheric, a once in a lifetime phenomenon. For all other groups, it's fortunate that the public remembers the name of one member. Ten years ago, most young people into pop music could probably name all the members of NSYNC or Destiny's Child, but nowadays, I'm sure most of them, except their hardcore fans, now ten years older and in a different stage of their lives, can only name the enduring stars that came from the group--Justin Timberlake and Beyonce. That's just how it is.
    I agree, but you see the Supremes (who are not even my favorite group, that would be the Four Tops just to be clear) were like the Beatles in regards to their initial popularity. I think that yes because they were women and Black that society at large has let them slip down several pegs on the popularity charts, polls or whatever they call what Billboard and Rolling Stones, publications like that put out.

    I can only speak from and about personal experience and that would be everyone I knew ,knew the names of the individual Supremes and many also knew the names of the members of the Temptations and Jackson Five,etc. Now if you are asking me if someone outside of say the baby boom generation would know the names, I can't tell you much because that is not my frame of reference.

  45. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by randy_russi View Post
    I think they did Shindig in '64--Baby Love and Come See About Me, prior to the Sullivan show. Sullivan was done in December
    '64. Come See was just released, I think, when they did Shindig. They also did Hullabaloo for Come See About Me and
    I think this may have been before Sullivan. They did Amer. Bndstnd. for Where Did Our Love Go when they were on tour
    with Dick Clark.
    Randy, I believe you are right about the Shindig appearance!

  46. #46
    the supremes were on steve allen in september 1964 for where did our love go, then they did shindig, the bill kennedy show and lloyd thaxton twice in november/december for come see about me all before ed sullivan. they did come see about me on hullabaloo in january/feb 1965 when it jumped back up to the #1 spot. it seems the song received a lot of promotion. never heard of the american bandstand performance but included thats 6 US TV appearances made before ed sullivan.

  47. #47
    And that doesn't include local TV shows they did in different cities, which they did do. Yes, American Bandstand in either
    July or August of '64 for Where Did Our Love Go. I had forgotten about Lloyd Thaxton.

    Also, again, with Oprah's remarks...A lot of younger people who were not around in the '60s do take her literally for what
    she is saying. She makes it sound as if because the Supremes hit, other black young performers were given a shot.
    They were NOT the first blacks on TV who came from a black label, with black choreographers, etc.
    Again, from Motown...Mary Wells, Marvelettes, Martha & Vandellas, Marvin Gaye, Miracles, had all made several TV
    appearances before the Supremes did the Sullivan show.

  48. #48
    Here is the first lady as she speaks about Motown and states what it was like to see "DIANA ROSS" on TV and what it meant to see her on television (eventhough Flo and Mary were alongside her).

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and...history-motown

    With that being said I understand what she and Oprah are saying and didn't take it literally as the "First African American woman" on TV. What will be remembered is DIANA ROSS was the Lead Singer of one of the most famous girl groups of all times and with that she continued on to bigger success to super stardom.

    What I remember about it was they were on radio and then to actual see them nationwide after hearing them was surreal to me. I don't remember all the other performances that are mentioned her until I went to seek them out latter at an adult age. Sorry, but my household did not watch them at all.

  49. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by randy_russi View Post
    And that doesn't include local TV shows they did in different cities, which they did do. Yes, American Bandstand in either
    July or August of '64 for Where Did Our Love Go. I had forgotten about Lloyd Thaxton.

    Also, again, with Oprah's remarks...A lot of younger people who were not around in the '60s do take her literally for what
    she is saying. She makes it sound as if because the Supremes hit, other black young performers were given a shot.
    They were NOT the first blacks on TV who came from a black label, with black choreographers, etc.
    Again, from Motown...Mary Wells, Marvelettes, Martha & Vandellas, Marvin Gaye, Miracles, had all made several TV
    appearances before the Supremes did the Sullivan show.
    And as I mentioned in the other thread... Dionne had hit it big the year before, and the mention earlier of Dee Dee sharp.

  50. #50
    At some point they also did Where The Action Is, which was also a Dick Clark TV show.

    Yes, Dionne Warwick hit BIG a few years earlier than the Supremes and made several TV appearances as well.

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