Mary's Going to see Diana's Vegas Show?

[bradsupremes]

Sounds to me like that was the most pointed way of saying "I don't fuck with Mary Wilson" and remaining a class act. Lol Oh well.

It is confusing to read comments saying Diana is aware of Cindy's situation and contributing financially and then hear Diana say that she's tried looking for Cindy but can't find her. Somebody is lying.

Diana knows where is Cindy. I know I’m not the only person on here who knows she’s informed on Cindy’s condition. Maybe Diana wanted to play it off and respect Cindy’s privacy. She could have simply said “I’ve heard Cindy respects her privacy.” To say she can’t find her sends the wrong message.

As for Mary, I’m sure Diana heard of Mary saying she would possibly attend one of her shows, but I don’t read into her saying she could be in the audience or that she doesn’t talk to her as anything disrespectful. These women are in their 70’s. Do people still think these ladies are still trying to stick it to the other? They’re on their own paths in life and I’m sure wish the other the best and send love. I’ve had a few friends that I had problems with the past and even though we don’t talk anymore and I still have love for them and hope they’re happy and doing well.

[Roberta75]

Diana knows where is Cindy. I know I’m not the only person on here who knows she’s informed on Cindy’s condition. Maybe Diana wanted to play it off and respect Cindy’s privacy. She could have simply said “I’ve heard Cindy respects her privacy.” To say she can’t find her sends the wrong message.

As for Mary, I’m sure Diana heard of Mary saying she would possibly attend one of her shows, but I don’t read into her saying she could be in the audience or that she doesn’t talk to her as anything disrespectful. These women are in their 70’s. Do people still think these ladies are still trying to stick it to the other? They’re on their own paths in life and I’m sure wish the other the best and send love. I’ve had a few friends that I had problems with the past and even though we don’t talk anymore and I still have love for them and hope they’re happy and doing well.

The voice of reason dear. Thank you.

Roberta������

[longtimefan]

Diana knows where is Cindy. I know I’m not the only person on here who knows she’s informed on Cindy’s condition. Maybe Diana wanted to play it off and respect Cindy’s privacy. She could have simply said “I’ve heard Cindy respects her privacy.” To say she can’t find her sends the wrong message.

As for Mary, I’m sure Diana heard of Mary saying she would possibly attend one of her shows, but I don’t read into her saying she could be in the audience or that she doesn’t talk to her as anything disrespectful. These women are in their 70’s. Do people still think these ladies are still trying to stick it to the other? They’re on their own paths in life and I’m sure wish the other the best and send love. I’ve had a few friends that I had problems with the past and even though we don’t talk anymore and I still have love for them and hope they’re happy and doing well.

I basically agree with you, Brad, and your statements are well informed. True, the issues between Diana and Mary are old and tired and barely need discussion.

However, I am very sad that with all of her kudos and well deserved success, Diana took a public occasion in this show to marginalize Cindy. With her resources, she could certainly “find” Cindy! That remark was insincere — and as a true Diana fan, I cannot come up with any a logical reason that she should have said this. Too bad.

[RanRan79]

However, I am very sad that with all of her kudos and well deserved success, Diana took a public occasion in this show to marginalize Cindy. With her resources, she could certainly “find” Cindy! That remark was insincere — and as a true Diana fan, I cannot come up with any a logical reason that she should have said this. Too bad.

Insincere. That's exactly how it comes across to me, whether she knows where Cindy is or not. But I do hope behind the scenes Diana is staying true to form and helping Cindy out where and how she can. Diana is good for that kind of thing. Very free hearted in that way.

[Circa 1824]

P.S. it is great to know Diana is losing weight. Who knew her knees were bad?

Also, I wonder if the lady who asked about the Supremes was a plant in order for Ross to subtlety tell the Wilson gal to stop talking about her in interviews as if they still have some sort of relationship or that a reconciliation or reunion is possible.

[captainjames]

Cindy's situation and where she is at is private.. Ross did good.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Cindy's situation and where she is at is private.. Ross did good.

This. And then some.

[Circa 1824]

Diana could have told the whole story in her autobiography, but she choose to write a fluff piece with little or no substance. She will never again have the opportunity to tell her story for “the first time.” If there is ever a part 2 to her autobiography, the record might be set straight about many things.

Not sure I am all that interested now because years and decades slowly change one’s interests and loves.

[floyjoy678]

Not gonna lie I lol'ed when she said Mary could be in the audience. Obviously she got wind of Mary's recent comments about attending her show.

[luke]

You’re not kidding. I find this all a bit coincidental and Diana saying Mary could be In The audience after Mary not attending any of her shows for almost thirty years and then saying she might go to her Vegas show. And Scherrie said she called her about Susaye joining Flos. Scherrie visits Cindy!

[TomatoTom123]

Here it is. Judge for yourselves. Exact question at 2:35. She called Florence Ballard "the Original Supreme", doesn't know where Cindy is and "I never stay in touch with Mary Wilson".
https://youtu.be/blqKtk_nrUE

Damn, who had the guts to ask Diana that question?!! Lol... interesting to hear her response though...

Thanks for posting thanxal

[floyjoy678]

On another positive observation: Diana seems to be reverting back to her Supremes days with her performances. She's doing the over the top facial expressions, bugging out her eyes and hunching up her shoulders. Its so cute. It's the Diana that I love. I even saw a clip of her performing Come See About Me and she was doing some of the original choreography that they used to do for the song. She seems like she's really having fun with the Supremes songs nowadays.

[luke]

And if Mary was in the audience she wouldn’t know it and therefore wouldn’t acknowledge her. ?! Diana is a piece of work

[Jimi LaLumia]

OMG! let it go, people! this was a Ross concert, not a Supremes show and she remained civil..what happened, happened, and while I'm a fan of all the ladies, if someone wrote a book like that about me, and then publicly pulled the rug out of a national tour they'd been invited on, well, forget about it...after the book, I'd never give then a second chance, and certainly not a third... and neither would any of you..move on!

[PeaceNHarmony]

OMG! let it go, people! this was a Ross concert, not a Supremes show and she remained civil..what happened, happened, and while I'm a fan of all the ladies, if someone wrote a book like that about me, and then publicly pulled the rug out of a national tour they'd been invited on, well, forget about it...after the book, I'd never give then a second chance, and certainly not a third... and neither would any of you..move on!

To you, sir, I bow down.

[captainjames]

OMG! let it go, people! this was a Ross concert, not a Supremes show and she remained civil..what happened, happened, and while I'm a fan of all the ladies, if someone wrote a book like that about me, and then publicly pulled the rug out of a national tour they'd been invited on, well, forget about it...after the book, I'd never give then a second chance, and certainly not a third... and neither would any of you..move on!

So true - The fans seem to think they know more about what is going on with these women than these women.

[thanxal]

OMG! let it go, people! this was a Ross concert, not a Supremes show and she remained civil..what happened, happened, and while I'm a fan of all the ladies, if someone wrote a book like that about me, and then publicly pulled the rug out of a national tour they'd been invited on, well, forget about it...after the book, I'd never give then a second chance, and certainly not a third... and neither would any of you..move on!

No molehills shall ever be passed over without making them into mountains here in the Motown Forum, esp. when it comes to Mary and Diana.

[reese]

I listened to the Q&A and agree with those who think that Diana was just respecting Cindy's privacy. Sure, she could have worded her response better but that is the risk one takes when doing an impromptu Q&A. You never know what question is going to be thrown at you and there is often little or no time to choose your words.

[RanRan79]

Btw, for the record I'll talk about whatever the fuck I wanna talk about in here unless told to refrain by Ralph. Just thought I'd put that out there in case there's any misconceptions regarding any thoughts about allowed or disallowed topics in the forum. You may return to your regularly scheduled program.

[Boogiedown]

I think it's great Diana Ross is doing Q and A and it seems here the questions are genuine. It takes courage to field questions like that , a very generous thing to do towards her fans who'll treasure the opportunity to interact. Maybe Diana doesn't realize that casual comments these days will likely get recorded and find their way outside the room to be more closely scrutinized . She might want to work on making her answers more thoughtful . But, I don't want her answers to be fake and totally rehearsed either . If having been a Supreme at one point in her life totally bores her , so be it.

[RanRan79]

Diana's response regarding Cindy was disingenuous at best, a flat out lie at worst. And that's disappointing. Her statement about Mary I'll take at face value and the final word on their relationship. Anything that happens [[positive) in the future between these two will officially take me by surprise. I'm officially over it, as Diana appears to be also. In the words of Mary, time to move on.

[jobeterob]

So it's now final? No Mary, No Mary in Audience, No Response from Diana. All a continuation of "it's been 30 years and we've hardly seen each other".

Actually, two lawyers worked with me in the past and I haven't seen one for 33 years and the other one for 29 years.

So, it's pretty common I expect.

[floyjoy678]

So it's now final? No Mary, No Mary in Audience, No Response from Diana. All a continuation of "it's been 30 years and we've hardly seen each other".

Actually, two lawyers worked with me in the past and I haven't seen one for 33 years and the other one for 29 years.

So, it's pretty common I expect.

It really is. Even with personal friendships it's common. My best friend from childhood and I had a falling out around age 24. He tried to reconnect a few years after but I had no interest as our lives had moved in different directions in that short amount of time. It's been years since we've talked or seen each other but I still look back fondly on the many good memories and laughs we shared as friends.

[Guy]

Much ado about nothing, courtesy of Miss Wilson.

[Boogiedown]

Originally Posted by RanRan79
Btw, for the record I'll talk about whatever the fuck I wanna talk about in here unless told to refrain by Ralph. .

OK then let's do it !!! I'd like to back this thread up a bit if you please :

RanRan 79:

Back to the serious portion of the discussion. Both Flo and Diana have confirmed that in 1975 Flo called Diana and the two of them had a nice conversation for about an hour. Flo has said she had the need to speak to Diana. Diana has said the call surprised her. It was also during this call that Diana confirms that Flo indeed was interested in getting back to singing, contrary to what some folks around here like to say, that Flo didn't desire to be a singer anymore.

Thanks for that info Ran! When Flo says she "had the need" to speak to Diana , I wonder what her need was in talking with her ?? As far as the part of the conversation where Flo expresses a renewed interest in singing , when Diana likely asked, "So whatcha' got going on Flo ?", I wouldn't expect her to say anything other than her wanting to get back into singing. What else? I'm not getting the impression though that the call was specifically about Flo wanting to discuss with Diana her singing future , or that she was seeking Diana's help in this area. ???

RanRan 79:
Like I said in my other post, Flo seemed to be maturing. And while a lot of people around here like to oversimplify the relationships of the Supremes [[comparing them to people who work "regular" jobs), the truth is they were just like us: with complicated relationships. Florence has gone on record very clearly about her love for Mary and Diana, no matter what went down. It doesn't surprise me that after some years apart, and some growing up, that one would reach out to the other. I've done it. I've had it done to me. Nothing saintly about it.

So I'm not referring to the phone call as being anything saintly. I too have made such types of calls , and I definitely ain't no Saint! Flo gets that designation because of the idea that's being suggested that Flo had the Supreme Power: that all Flo needed to do was wave her backup singer arms a certain way and both Diana and Mary would obediently fall into line --- and above that, if Flo had lived to command it, the Supremes would've eventually gotten something going again . Sainthood stuff for sure !

But, can we really be so assertive that by re-adding Flo to the mix it would've made it smooth sailing between the three , isn't it just as possible it would just make matters ten times worse?

So, was the call to Diana due to some sort of new found maturity on Flo's part ? We don't even fully know Flo's intentions, or what state Flo was in that day when she suddenly made the call, not suggesting anything here, just saying no one knows. And you could say Diana's having not called Flo showed maturity on Diana's part, she likely realized with her career in full swing and in a stable place , the risks from opening that old can of worms made reaching out not worth it.

What is wonderful is that these two did talk , about whatever , and without an awareness of the heavy cloud hovering over them concerning the tragedy waiting just up the road.

[RanRan79]

Thanks for that info Ran! When Flo says she "had the need" to speak to Diana , I wonder what her need was in talking with her ?? As far as the part of the conversation where Flo expresses a renewed interest in singing , when Diana likely asked, "So whatcha' got going on Flo ?", I wouldn't expect her to say anything other than her wanting to get back into singing. What else? I'm not getting the impression though that the call was specifically about Flo wanting to discuss with Diana her singing future , or that she was seeking Diana's help in this area. ???

According to Florence, they spent most of the time talking about motherhood, so I don't think her stepping back into a musical career was the reason for the call. Interesting note: a researcher named Rick B [[can't remember how to spell his last name) MANY years ago, he said that Diana actually offered Flo the use of her home when and if she decided to come to LA to jump start her career. If this is true, I think it also says a lot about Diana's feelings for Flo, again, after everything that had gone down between them. Keep in mind that Diana is also said to have attempted to save Florence's home before she lost it, and of course we know that for many years Diana kept in touch with and did things for Flo's children. So there was definitely something more between these two women than the normal "we use to work together" feelings. For all the talk about former colleagues, how many of you all have done these things for someone you once worked with?

Btw, Flo has never struck me as the kind of person who answers a question like "whatcha got going on" with anything other than the truth. If she wasn't interested in singing I don't think she would've mentioned her plans.

So I'm not referring to the phone call as being anything saintly. I too have made such types of calls , and I definitely ain't no Saint! Flo gets that designation because of the idea that's being suggested that Flo had the Supreme Power: that all Flo needed to do was wave her backup singer arms a certain way and both Diana and Mary would obediently fall into line --- and above that, if Flo had lived to command it, the Supremes would've eventually gotten something going again . Sainthood stuff for sure !

Lol Oversimplification of a fix, for sure. However, again I must stress that I use real life experience when I'm dissecting the Supremes story, because they are, ya know, real people. [[I think that is forgotten sometimes, believe it or not.) And there are people that I know personally who have personalities or mindsets that give them a commanding presence. They have the ability to operate within a relationship that keeps everyone in line. Flo is said to have had a mothering type of presence at times, and that was when she was in her 20s and hadn't even had children yet. I can only imagine how much more of that instinct she received after becoming a real mother. I think she had it in her to potentially keep her singing partners' egos in check had she lived and grown more.

Remember, at this point in her life [[75/76) Flo was already maturely taking responsibility for her role in the end of the original Supremes. That is something I still haven't heard Diana do in her 70s. Mary willingly states the part that she played but IMO still doesn't accept the fact that what she did was some bullshit. Just a bunch of excuses. [[I do understand her excuses though and I'm certainly not holding it against her.) As I said before, Flo seemed to be maturing in a way that her singing partners hadn't yet done, and I think had she continued to live, her presence would have had a positive effect on the original Supremes going forward.

But, can we really be so assertive that by re-adding Flo to the mix it would've made it smooth sailing between the three , isn't it just as possible it would just make matters ten times worse?

Very possible. There's a chance that if the three women didn't have a sit down to talk about [[as Diana once put it) "the heart", all the old issues would've crept back up. Personally I believe that was the problem with Motown 25. Mary had issues that had never been dealt with and as a result, she was paranoid about being just another one of Diana's backup singers at their reunion and she acted unprofessionally during the taping, which resulted in Diana also acting unprofessionally. [[Not that I'm blaming Mary for Diana's behavior. Diana was grown enough to know how to deal with that without acting like a child.) And we know how things just went downhill from there. Who knows, maybe if Flo had been there, a couple of bitches might have ended up on the floor. How's that for a headline the next day? Lol But somehow I don't think that would have been the case.

So, was the call to Diana due to some sort of new found maturity on Flo's part ? We don't even fully know Flo's intentions, or what state Flo was in that day when she suddenly made the call, not suggesting anything here, just saying no one knows. And you could say Diana's having not called Flo showed maturity on Diana's part, she likely realized with her career in full swing and in a stable place , the risks from opening that old can of worms made reaching out not worth it.

Diana mature in 1975? Who you kiddin?? LOL But in truth, no one here can say with certainty what was going on in any of the women's minds, unless we consulted them. And in Flo's case that's impossible. I just use my brain to deduce the probability based on the information I do have, the same way people who write about Abe Lincoln or Martin Luther King arrive at potential scenarios based on research. I stand behind my original comments: Flo very likely would have kept the ship righted had she lived. And there would have been no Dreamgirl book to really nail the coffin shut. [[I've always felt that if Flo lived Mary wouldn't have had the balls to write the book. The book sold on the strength of Diana dirt and Flo's tragic story.)

What is wonderful is that these two did talk , about whatever , and without an awareness of the heavy cloud hovering over them concerning the tragedy waiting just up the road.

That's the beautiful thing. I'm glad they had that moment.

[Boogiedown]

Nice reply Ran! Some thoughts:

According to Florence, they spent most of the time talking about motherhood, so I don't think her stepping back into a musical career was the reason for the call. Interesting note: a researcher named Rick B [[can't remember how to spell his last name) MANY years ago, he said that Diana actually offered Flo the use of her home when and if she decided to come to LA to jump start her career. [[but no offer to do a jump starter appearance on her next project or to call Berry Gordy?) this is true, I think it also says a lot about Diana's feelings for Flo, again, after everything that had gone down between them. Keep in mind that Diana is also said to have attempted to save Florence's home before she lost it, and of course we know that for many years Diana kept in touch with and did things for Flo's children. So there was definitely something more between these two women than the normal "we use to work together" feelings. For all the talk about former colleagues, how many of you all have done these things for someone you once worked with? [[but then how many of us make Diana's kind of money and have her kind of resources ?)

Btw, Flo has never struck me as the kind of person who answers a question like "whatcha got going on" with anything other than the truth. If she wasn't interested in singing I don't think she would've mentioned her plans. [[saying you're "interested" could mean many degrees of seriousness , saying you're seriously interested and then doing something about it is an entirely different thing.)



Lol Oversimplification of a fix, for sure. However, again I must stress that I use real life experience when I'm dissecting the Supremes story, because they are, ya know, real people. [[I think that is forgotten sometimes, believe it or not.) And there are people that I know personally who have personalities or mindsets that give them a commanding presence. [[Is that how Flo commanded herself to so many leads on Supremes songs?? )They have the ability to operate within a relationship that keeps everyone in line [[including wife- beating husbands? ). Flo is said to have had a mothering type of presence at times, and that was when she was in her 20s and hadn't even had children yet. I can only imagine how much more of that instinct she received after becoming a real mother. [[I'm having a hard time imagining either Diana or Mary seeking her profound motherliness!) I think she had it in her to potentially keep her singing partners' egos in check had she lived and grown more. [[I don't see how, Diana was already far beyond being another Supreme , completely independent, as a movie star and a top tier recording solo artist.)

Remember, at this point in her life [[75/76) Flo was already maturely taking responsibility for her role in the end of the original Supremes. [[interesting. I don't know about this. Are there more details ?) That is something I still haven't heard Diana do in her 70s. [[I don't quite follow , how does Diana not take responsibility, or rather take responsibility for what ? From the get-go , she was the one that wanted out , she wanted to go solo. It all went as she wanted and successfully , so why would she have regrets?) Mary willingly states the part that she played but IMO still doesn't accept the fact that what she did was some bullshit. Just a bunch of excuses. [[I do understand her excuses though and I'm certainly not holding it against her.) As I said before, Flo seemed to be maturing in a way that her singing partners hadn't yet done, and I think had she continued to live, her presence would have had a positive effect on the original Supremes going forward. [[Not sure what going forward means , you mean a reforming of the group ? The miraculous work of Saint Flo for sure !!)



Very possible. There's a chance that if the three women didn't have a sit down to talk about [[as Diana once put it) "the heart", all the old issues would've crept back up. Personally I believe that was the problem with Motown 25. Mary had issues that had never been dealt with and as a result, she was paranoid about being just another one of Diana's backup singers at their reunion and she acted unprofessionally during the taping, which resulted in Diana also acting unprofessionally. [[Not that I'm blaming Mary for Diana's behavior. Diana was grown enough to know how to deal with that without acting like a child.) And we know how things just went downhill from there. Who knows, maybe if Flo had been there, a couple of bitches might have ended up on the floor. How's that for a headline the next day? Lol [[lol) But somehow I don't think that would have been the case.



Diana mature in 1975? Who you kiddin?? LOL [[ oh don't let her ability to play a pre-teen Dorothy fool you! and , if Flo were more mature then because of her motherly status , I think Diana had the same number of kids at that time too.) But in truth, no one here can say with certainty what was going on in any of the women's minds, unless we consulted them. And in Flo's case that's impossible. I just use my brain to deduce the probability based on the information I do have, the same way people who write about Abe Lincoln or Martin Luther King arrive at potential scenarios based on research. I stand behind my original comments: Flo very likely would have kept the ship righted [[what ship?) had she lived. And there would have been no Dreamgirl book to really nail the coffin shut. [[I've always felt that if Flo lived Mary wouldn't have had the balls to write the book. The book sold on the strength of Diana dirt and Flo's tragic story.) [[in the end though, its a very worthwhile book)



That's the beautiful thing. I'm glad they had that moment. [[yes at least there's that brief moment of relief in this twisted story)

[RanRan79]

Boogie I kinda like how you replied to my post, so I'm going to respond in kind because it seems a little easier than the way I normally do it when replying piece by piece. My responses in blue.

[[but no offer to do a jump starter appearance on her next project or to call Berry Gordy?)

I would think this an unlikely offer considering that everybody in the mix knew there was no love lost between Flo and Gordy. Diana was in no position to offer anything other than a place to stay if Flo chose to take her up on that offer.

[[but then how many of us make Diana's kind of money and have her kind of resources ?)

Not very many. But is it still standard practice among the wealthy to help out former colleagues they have no affection for? I don't think so. For all the negative talk people like to do about Diana, she is very generous when approached for help. Interestingly, Diana trying to save Flo's home and Diana keeping up with Flo's children, these things are never said to have been accompanied by Florence or anyone acting on Flo's behalf asking Diana to do anything. My spidey senses say there was real affection there. Diana isn't the Ice Queen she's made out to be.

[[saying you're "interested" could mean many degrees of seriousness , saying you're seriously interested and then doing something about it is an entirely different thing.)

Agreed, but I think Diana's quote is that Flo said she was ready to get back into singing. Jack Ashford has said that he and Flo spoke about getting together to do something. And of course there was her last public performance some six or so months before her death. As I've said in a previous thread, it's hard for singers who have been at the top to let it go. I bet Flo did her last performance and remembered more than anything where her place [[other than motherhood) was at.

[[Is that how Flo commanded herself to so many leads on Supremes songs?? )

Yes, that's exactly how she did it.

[[including wife- beating husbands? ).

I found this to be a rather low blow. I'm going to assume your comment is born out of ignorance regarding domestic abuse and who it happens to. Sadly, just about every kind of person you can think of can end up in an abusive relationship. That's a sad fact. I won't participate in any discussion where any physical abuse perpetrated on Flo is used as commentary against her.

[[I'm having a hard time imagining either Diana or Mary seeking her profound motherliness!)

Believe it or not, there was that time in Boston when Diana had her breakdown. According to witnesses it was Florence who took care of Diana, exhibiting that maternal instinct. This shouldn't be a far out thought considering that Flo is said to have been her mother's helper when it came to her siblings. If you know anything about big families [[as I do, coming from a HUGE one myself), a lot of times the girls who were charged with "motherly" duties for siblings are often very maternal. Flo would not be odd in this.

[[I don't see how, Diana was already far beyond being another Supreme , completely independent, as a movie star and a top tier recording solo artist.)

But that's the question, isn't it? Could Flo have reigned in Miss Ross? I think Flo would have had no problem keeping Mary in line, but Diana was DIANA. So would Flo have had it in her in the 1980s to be the piece that allowed the original Supremes to come together for projects and performances now and again? Again my answer is "I think so", but unfortunately we'll never know.

[[interesting. I don't know about this. Are there more details ?)

Flo said she felt she messed up in the past. She said a lot of things she shouldn't have said. She handled the situation poorly, she said. And I agree. I get it, she was in her early 20s. Look at the kinds of things people in their early 20s are doing now. Hell, I shudder at some of my own decisions when I was that young. Shit happens. You learn, you mature, you grow up. But she definitely handled that situation in the worst possible way and she knew it.

[[I don't quite follow , how does Diana not take responsibility, or rather take responsibility for what ? From the get-go , she was the one that wanted out , she wanted to go solo. It all went as she wanted and successfully , so why would she have regrets?)

Ah yes. Gotta love the ever popular mentality "I hurt some folks but I got what I wanted. Screw 'em." For me to go in on Diana's part in the breakup of the original Supremes would be a bit much in this post. But in short, I am of the opinion that Diana did some bullshit not to just get her goal of going solo but because she was a selfish 20 something year old girl. She was no different than any other selfish 20 something. But she definitely had a role in the disintegration of the force that was the original Supremes. And she knows it. At least I believe she knows it. LOL

[[Not sure what going forward means , you mean a reforming of the group ? The miraculous work of Saint Flo for sure !!)

Yeah, reforming the group like the Temptations did for a project. There's no reason why the Supremes with Flo and Diana couldn't have had a reunion album and I don't think it would have taken a saintly act to do it.

[[ oh don't let her ability to play a pre-teen Dorothy fool you! and , if Flo were more mature then because of her motherly status , I think Diana had the same number of kids at that time too.)

Yeah, but Diana was smacking the shit out of Gordy on movie sets because she couldn't have her way. Very mature. Not!

[[in the end though, its a very worthwhile book)

Oh don't get me wrong. Mary's first book is- IMO- the definitive insider look at the Supremes. It's what I source first for the group's history, especially the Primettes days. And it's a helluva read. I'm not knocking Mary's right to tell her view of things either. What I'm suggesting is that there wouldn't have been a book if Mary couldn't capitalize off of Flo's story. Mean Diana doesn't look quite as mean when the narrative doesn't end with one of the people she was mean to dying off. Also I suspect the Motown 25 debacle fueled Mary's desire to write the book to at least a small extent. And it's been my supposition from the jump that had Flo been at the reunion it wouldn't have gone down like that, and thus nothing for Mary and Diana to feud about, resulting in a "tell all".

[[yes at least there's that brief moment of relief in this twisted story)

Personally I don't think the story is so twisted. I think we fans make it twisted by making these three women supernatural. They aren't allowed to be human, flawed. They can't react like the rest of us do. They can't feel like the rest of us do. And they can't have ups and downs with one another like the rest of us do in some of our own relationships. In reality the Supremes story is just every day life for many people. The girls just happened to be household names with famous faces and voices.

Nice reply Ran!

Thanks Boogie. I appreciate our back and forth, whether we agree or not. I don't need anyone to agree with me, as long as they respectfully disagree, and you do that well. [[As I hope I do also.) I wish everyone in this forum would disagree so pleasantly.

[Jimi LaLumia]

and that Ross has always been there for Ballard's kids, financially and elsewise, which the kids apparently are glad to acknowledge in public, and maybe that was part of the conversation, that if anything were to ever happen to Ballard..no one will ever truly know except Ross and she ain't tellin.

[gman]

this is show biz...we can all assume from the public going ons but who really knows what goes on privately between well known public figures? I loved Cindy...vocal power wise, she may have been the weakest but she was and still is my all time favorite Supreme in the soprano role. Man, did she look good! there was always something endearing in her presence...and I always wanted to ask her why she never changed her wig during TCB??? and BTW..exactly how many blonde wigs did Mary have?

[PeaceNHarmony]

this is show biz...we can all assume from the public going ons but who really knows what goes on privately between well known public figures? I loved Cindy...vocal power wise, she may have been the weakest but she was and still is my all time favorite Supreme in the soprano role. Man, did she look good! there was always something endearing in her presence...and I always wanted to ask her why she never changed her wig during TCB??? and BTW..exactly how many blonde wigs did Mary have?

I loved Cindy as well; she brought the group into a 'lady-like' stature after the greatly appealing sassy teen- then young-lady phases. Don't know about the wigs - maybe newish to the group she just didn't have the deep catalog of changes Diana and Mary had.

[floyjoy678]

I loved Cindy as well; she brought the group into a 'lady-like' stature after the greatly appealing sassy teen- then young-lady phases. Don't know about the wigs - maybe newish to the group she just didn't have the deep catalog of changes Diana and Mary had.

That's a very good way to word it. I always thought it was amazing how much different the group seemed just by Cindy coming into the group. If you watch the girls on Sullivan from May of '67 with Flo and then the Hollywood palace just a few months later in September with Cindy, it's amazing how much more mature the group came off in that short amount of time. I do love Cindy and thought she had an amazing personality but the magic that made the Supremes for me was gone when Flo left.

[Jaap]

Secrets of a Sparrow is definitely fluffy and does not "set the record straight," yet does contain interesting and revealing parts. In her essay on Diana Ross, published in her book On Racial Icons: Blackness and the Public Imagination [[which features a picture of Ross on the cover) by Nicole R. Fleetwood and published by Rutgers University Press, Fleetwood quotes from the memoirs and subsequently writes: "While the memoir is not meant to be challenging reading or sober in tone, Ross pointedly addresses the continued struggle agains racial oppression [[using the powerful term bondage to signal injustice)." See below for part of the Ross quote and the interpretation by Fleetwood. The essay "Giving Face: Diana Ross and the Black Celebrity as Icon" [[as well as the entire book) is a great read if you can appreciate academic jargon.

[jobeterob]

I expect Secrets of a Sparrow will be her last book with any discussion of anything in any way personal regarding The Supremes.

What is the point of anything else now?

She has collected most of the major awards she could possibly collect. She made a fortune. She hasn't had much to do with any Supremes for many years although she may have a friendship with many of them.

Most of the public doesn't really care anymore what their relationship was or is.

What matters to Diana Ross is her family and extended family although she's obviously thrilled to be getting more awards at 73.

[imakicola]

Or maybe Diana Ross is respecting Cindys privacy and taking the high road.

That’s not an “or.” High road or not, a lie is a lie.

[Roberta75]

That’s not an “or.” High road or not, a lie is a lie.

In your opinion. I still think Diane may have been caught of guard or was protecting Cindy cause if she had said Cindys real ill it would have prompted more questions so Im not judging her on this.

[PeaceNHarmony]

In your opinion. I still think Diane may have been caught of guard or was protecting Cindy cause if she had said Cindys real ill it would have prompted more questions so Im not judging her on this.

As you know from your meeting with Ross, Ms. Roberta, she is a guarded and gracious lady who does not profit from pouring 't' about anyone for the yowling masses, and even less about any Supreme or fellow Motowner. I hope you are well in these stressful times.

[Bluebrock]

As you know from your meeting with Ross, Ms. Roberta, she is a guarded and gracious lady who does not profit from pouring 't' about anyone for the yowling masses, and even less about any Supreme or fellow Motowner. I hope you are well in these stressful times.

Diana is the most private celebrity i have ever met. She hates questions about her private life and hates being caught off guard, and she would never willingly discuss Cindy or Flo in public. Unlike certain others i could mention here. Her behind the scenes charity work is kept firmly behind closed doors and are handled with the utmost discretion, and that is how it should be.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Diana is the most private celebrity i have ever met. She hates questions about her private life and hates being caught off guard, and she would never willingly discuss Cindy or Flo in public. Unlike certain others i could mention here. Her behind the scenes charity work is kept firmly behind closed doors and are handled with the utmost discretion, and that is how it should be.

Absolutely, though of course it's a personal, individual's choice. I'm sure that's why Diana chose to cancel the book 'Upside Down' [[still having young children at the time). I think of the decades of TV interviews wherein Ross chose never to reveal sex positions [[hi, Oprah ...), romances, charity causes, etc. I think Diana's basically introverted desire for privacy sometimes gets interpreted as coldness and/or rudeness when really [[like Jacqueline Kennedy-Onassis and some other admirable celebs) there are times when she just wants to go about her own life.

[milven]

I remember pre-ordering an autobiography by Diana Ross around 2002 called "Upside Down [[........)" Can't remember the full title of the book. It stayed on pre-order for quite a long time, and then was cancelled.

If it was going to be Diana's tell-all book, she must have had second thoughts about releasing the book, and decided to go high when others went low. It was also at a low point of her life, and being negative usually only brings you lower.

Since then, she has had a wonderful career with her tours, has gotten more prestigious awards, her family has grown and she seems very happy living in the present.

Good. It seems that all the former Supremes who still want to work are doing okay. So, let it be. Let's just enjoy them while they are still out there entertaining us.

By the way, did anyone else pre-order this book , or remember when it was being talked about? I have not heard a reference to it in years.

Makes me wonder if I am already senile and just imagining it in my mind

[reese]

I remember pre-ordering an autobiography by Diana Ross around 2002 called "Upside Down [[........)" Can't remember the full title of the book. It stayed on pre-order for quite a long time, and then was cancelled.

If it was going to be Diana's tell-all book, she must have had second thoughts about releasing the book, and decided to go high when others went low. It was also at a low point of her life, and being negative usually only brings you lower.

Since then, she has had a wonderful career with her tours, has gotten more prestigious awards, her family has grown and she seems very happy living in the present.

Good. It seems that all the former Supremes who still want to work are doing okay. So, let it be. Let's just enjoy them while they are still out there entertaining us.

By the way, did anyone else pre-order this book , or remember when it was being talked about? I have not heard a reference to it in years.

Makes me wonder if I am already senile and just imagining it in my mind

It was called "Upside Down: Wrong Turns, Right Turns, and the Road Ahead" or something like that.

I didn't pre-order it, but I definitely remember hearing about it. There was even an excerpt on line at one point. There was also supposed to be a revealing interview on the Fox channel.

[Circa 1824]

It was called "Upside Down: Wrong Turns, Right Turns, and the Road Ahead" or something like that.

I didn't pre-order it, but I definitely remember hearing about it. There was even an excerpt on line at one point. There was also supposed to be a revealing interview on the Fox channel.

.......

My memory is that Diana was given a hefty advance with the understanding she would tell the whole story, nitty gritty and all. When she submitted the text to the publishers, it was another fluff piece and they rejected it, and she gave back the advance payment.

Has it ever been explained why the first fluff piece was never released in paperback? Very very very unusual in publishing.

[Jaap]

The "Upside Down" book was announced in 2003, after the DUI. Billboard reported:
<<Veteran singer Diana Ross is writing a memoir that will offer "a tough look at the recent heartaches in her life," including her drunken driving arrest, the breakup of her marriage, and her disastrous Supremes reunion tour. "Upside Down: Wrong Turns, Right Turns and the Road Ahead" is scheduled for release this spring from ReganBooks, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers. "What readers will discover in this moving memoir is that no one is immune from the pain of loneliness, abandonment, divorce, and all of the losses and challenges we each face in our lives," ReganBooks publisher Judith Regan said in a statement. Financial terms were not disclosed. In addition, Ross has also agreed to a one-hour interview, scheduled to air in May on the Fox Television Network. Ross was arrested Dec. 30 in Tucson, Ariz., for investigation of driving under the influence and extreme DUI, a charge that can carry greater penalties than a regular DUI. A breath test showed the pop diva had a blood-alcohol reading of 0.20, more than twice Arizona's legal limit of 0.08.>>

http://www.billboard.com/articles/ne...rtaches-memoir

One website even published an excerpt [[don't know whether the excerpt was real or not):
<<I really tried to be strong about the divorce. I took the boys to visit Arne and his new love and their baby, and I even planned a divorce ceremony so that the kids would know that our relationship had ended on a good note. I spoke at the ceremony about the good things that had come into my life since I met Arne, and about how much I loved him and the children. Later on, I realized that I was really denying myself the time to grieve over losing his love. I denied the hurt and tried to rise above it. But one day, I realized I still needed to heal. I wanted to be left alone. Many people encouraged me to go back to work, but my heart said, "Stay in bed." >>
http://www.powells.com/book/upside-down-9780060571818

Not sure if it would have been an interesting book; but good for her not to go through with it.

[Boogiedown]

Does anyone know where Cindy Birdsong is??

Diana Ross is looking but can't find her and is asking if anybody knows where she is !!

[jobeterob]

Does anyone know where Cindy Birdsong is??

Diana Ross is looking but can't find her and is asking if anybody knows where she is !!

Is the consensus that she knows, has provided her assistance, and politely would not answer the question.

Even fans that seem to know don't want to say what is actually wrong with Cindy and why she has disappeared from public view.

[bradsupremes]

Is the consensus that she knows, has provided her assistance, and politely would not answer the question.

Yes, that’s exactly what happened.

I think people forget that despite the fact none of these ladies are buddies anymore, they know how to get a hold of the other. When emergencies have happened they are on the phone calling the other. They still love and care for each other even if the friendship isn’t there anymore.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Is the consensus that she knows, has provided her assistance, and politely would not answer the question.

Even fans that seem to know don't want to say what is actually wrong with Cindy and why she has disappeared from public view.

Yes. Because there are situations that families do not wish to exploit. 2-3 years ago there was a bit of an outreach to provide assistance [[including here, where it was largely shot down). True fans and industry peeps [[predominantly Diana Ross, it is said) came through.

[daviddh]

Diana knows where Cindy is.

[PeaceNHarmony]

Diana knows where Cindy is.

... and is professional enough, sophisticated enough, and empathetic enough to know that it's none of our f*!kin' business. Rock on, Ms. Ross.

[Boogiedown]

hi Ran! thanks for your thoughtful and quick response! I don't have time to do so in kind , but would like to continue if you are so inclined. Please give me a couple of days .*

... and is professional enough, sophisticated enough, and empathetic enough to know that it's none of our f*!kin' business. Rock on, Ms. Ross.

LOL !!!!!
I'm just imagining Diana during that audience participation segment in which people are invited to ask her unfielded questions,
when the person innocently asks whether she keeps in touch with any of the Supremes , Diana's face turns a brilliant red , her fiery hair extends out twice its already exaggerated length , and with eyes intensely glaring, she shrieks back , "Do I keep in touch???? --- Do I keep in touch with any of the old Supremes you dare to ask???? --- IT'S NONE OF YOUR F*!CKIN' BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!!!"

....LOL!!!!!!

then after catching her breath and her appearance returning to normal, she says, "Now , will somebody ask me some real questions, like who makes my terrific gowns, or how does my voice keep sounding better every year?"

Well , better that I say , than the apparent fake news she so professionally and sophisticatedly responded with.
LOL!!!!!

* if this thread doesn't sadly get deleted before then as I'm sensing it might be headed there