Mary Wilson and Marvin Gaye

[kenneth]

I think when Diana and Marvin came out, the golden era of the duets had really passed, at least until Ashford and Simpson [[ironically) seemed to bring it back to the charts a few years later. To me, Diana and Marvin didn't really blend. They both have great voices but they just don't seem to be singing together somehow.

I actually think Marvin and Mary Wilson would have been more interesting. Her voice could sound at times like Mary Wells, with a similar breathy quality, and I think they might have complemented each other in the same way that Marvin and Mary Wells did. Too bad we'll never know.

[marv2]

I think when Diana and Marvin came out, the golden era of the duets had really passed, at least until Ashford and Simpson [[ironically) seemed to bring it back to the charts a few years later. To me, Diana and Marvin didn't really blend. They both have great voices but they just don't seem to be singing together somehow.

I actually think Marvin and Mary Wilson would have been more interesting. Her voice could sound at times like Mary Wells, with a similar breathy quality, and I think they might have complemented each other in the same way that Marvin and Mary Wells did. Too bad we'll never know.

i heard that marvin and diane recorded separately.

[honest man]

Yes i read that too,what a fantastic duet album it was-is,just imagine if they had recorded it together in studio the result would still have been fantastic,would love their solo versions of duets project to be released someday,cheers.

[ralpht]

RanRan,
I just read the entire thread. Yeah, things seem to be drifting a bit. I'm going to let things stand for a bit and see if things can get on track.

[Roberta75]

Yes i read that too,what a fantastic duet album it was-is,just imagine if they had recorded it together in studio the result would still have been fantastic,would love their solo versions of duets project to be released someday,cheers.

I was told that Mr Gaye was smoking during the recording sessiion and Miss Ross was pregnant at that time so Mr Gordy suggested they record seperatley but a few tracks were recorded together. Perhaps Rick B can conform or add to this.

Fondly,

Roberta

[ralpht]

Only one track was recorded together, Roberta. Marvin was smoking weed and Diana objected. Since Marvin declared that he couldn't sing without it, the album was completed by Diana and Marvin coming to the studio at separate times.

[Roberta75]

Only one track was recorded together, Roberta. Marvin was smoking weed and Diana objected. Since Marvin declared that he couldn't sing without it, the album was completed by Diana and Marvin coming to the studio at separate times.

Thank you dear Ralph. I can see Miss Ross not wanting smoke around her when shes pregnant

[soulwally]

How do I report Honest Man to the moderators? He/she is a most objectionable poster, as well as a disgrace to his English language teacher.

[Roberta75]

How do I report Honest Man to the moderators? He/she is a most objectionable poster, as well as a disgrace to his English language teacher.

IMHO I dont think Ralph cares or needst to be bothered with someones language or English or writing or spelling skills.

[marv2]

How do I report Honest Man to the moderators? He/she is a most objectionable poster, as well as a disgrace to his English language teacher.

soulwally, just send ralph a private message. go to the top and click notifications.

[vgalindo]

How do I report Honest Man to the moderators? He/she is a most objectionable poster, as well as a disgrace to his English language teacher.

I haven't seen Honest man say anything bad. Only his dislike of Mary Wilsons voice. He has the right to post his opinion. Just like the others who constantly post their negative opinions on Diana Ross. Nothing is ever done to them because they say that's their opinion. You can't have it both ways!!

[captainjames]

HAHA
If ever there was a description for a male DIVA, Marvin's name would be included as well.

It could have been interesting had Marvin produced Mary. During the same period, his biographer David Ritz wrote that Marvin was slated to produce Dionne Warwick. Dionne and Marvin met to discuss material and she was telling him which songs she liked and which ones she didn't. Marvin suddenly excused himself and never returned, saying Dionne was "too bossy."

[blackguy69]

I haven't seen Honest man say anything bad. Only his dislike of Mary Wilsons voice. He has the right to post his opinion. Just like the others who constantly post their negative opinions on Diana Ross. Nothing is ever done to them because they say that's their opinion. You can't have it both ways!!

I've seen his post and it isn't just her voice he doesn't like. I think in a nutshell I think what soulwally is pointing out that there are those who have no problem calling out Marv for his remarks about Diana but are stone quiet when he does the same about Mary

[vgalindo]

I've seen his post and it isn't just her voice he doesn't like. I think in a nutshell I think what soulwally is pointing out that there are those who have no problem calling out Marv for his remarks about Diana but are stone quiet when he does the same about Mary

I am just saying why does Soulwally want to contact Ralph? Marv has been bashing Diana forever and Ralph hasn't stoped him. So why should he stop Honest man from bashing Mary? It seems Ralph gets upset when members bash other members but he let's people speak their mind about how they feel about the different artists. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[detmotownguy]

soulwally, just send ralph a private message. go to the top and click notifications.

Marv check your email please.

[blackguy69]

Personally I wouldn't stop either of them. I dont like their comments but that doesn't stop me from listening to their music.

[Jaap]

So funny that people continue to make a big deal out of the fact that most of the Diana & Marvin duets were recorded separately, as that was and is still common practice when recording duets [[similarly to the backing vocals being recorded separately). One of the most beautiful duets ever -- Marvin and Tammi's "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" -- was made by adding Marvin's vocals to Tammi's earlier recorded vocals. Patti LaBelle and Michael McDonald didn't even meet in person AFTER their duet "On My Own" was a hit--not only did they record the song separately, also the music video was taped separately [[though, in this case, it does fit the song's theme). I love [[most) of the Diana & Marvin album. Just listen to "Just Say, Just Say" -- that's a intimate duet in which the vocals blend beautifully, regardless of how they were recorded.

[honest man]

soulwally, just send ralph a private message. go to the top and click notifications.

i Must remember that the next time you tELL a poster to DROP DEAD last week, better still Ralph can see it himself from SUPREME SHOW PHOTO THREAD, Double standards sums you up.

[honest man]

I am just saying why does Soulwally want to contact Ralph? Marv has been bashing Diana forever and Ralph hasn't stoped him. So why should he stop Honest man from bashing Mary? It seems Ralph gets upset when members bash other members but he let's people speak their mind about how they feel about the different artists. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Believe it or not i love Mary Wilson IT is just that this Marv bloke keeps trying to change Motown history by slagging her group leader ,and she is no better,i just don't like her for THE 2 trash rags she produced ,but as a Supreme i love her,there you go.

[honest man]

How do I report Honest Man to the moderators? He/she is a most objectionable poster, as well as a disgrace to his English language teacher.

BOVVERED =[Bothered]

[Bluebrock]

Believe it or not i love Mary Wilson IT is just that this Marv bloke keeps trying to change Motown history by slagging her group leader ,and she is no better,i just don't like her for THE 2 trash rags she produced ,but as a Supreme i love her,there you go.

I loved Mary as a Supreme but now i accuse her of double standards. She wrote that awful memoir and made herself a lot of money in the process, but now she wants to "make it right with Diane". Diana quite rightly wants nothing to do with this woman and refuses all advances.
This situation is unlikely to change and i think we should all move on.

[blackguy69]

I think everyone needs to let it go and move on. Bluerock I understand what you mean, but put it in this light, the Diana Ross you worked with and respect more than likely is not the same person Mary felt with years earlier. Just a thought

[thanxal]

I am just saying why does Soulwally want to contact Ralph? Marv has been bashing Diana forever and Ralph hasn't stoped him. So why should he stop Honest man from bashing Mary? It seems Ralph gets upset when members bash other members but he let's people speak their mind about how they feel about the different artists. Correct me if I'm wrong.

From my short time here what you've written seems correct. I personally don't know how Ralph puts up with all the pettiness.

Why people need to childishly start a fight on every thread has more to do with their own personality shortcomings and mental instabilities. I've long suspected certain people are posting under 3-5 other IDs and get some mentally disturbed kick out of stirring up trouble. We know there is a ghost site that has stolen our IDs and posts. I showed that conclusively in a recent thread. The same crowd comes [[back) over here when things get boring there.

The "block" function of this forum is one of its more useful tools.

[ralpht]

vgalindo. I really don't see Marv bashing Diana, or anyone for that matter. And yes it is true that artists are open for critical comments. That goes with the territory, and as long as it is not fiction, I let it stand. However, I don't stand for one member attacking another member. And for the billionth time its only music...get a grip.

[kenneth]

So funny that people continue to make a big deal out of the fact that most of the Diana & Marvin duets were recorded separately, as that was and is still common practice when recording duets [[similarly to the backing vocals being recorded separately). One of the most beautiful duets ever -- Marvin and Tammi's "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" -- was made by adding Marvin's vocals to Tammi's earlier recorded vocals. Patti LaBelle and Michael McDonald didn't even meet in person AFTER their duet "On My Own" was a hit--not only did they record the song separately, also the music video was taped separately [[though, in this case, it does fit the song's theme). I love [[most) of the Diana & Marvin album. Just listen to "Just Say, Just Say" -- that's a intimate duet in which the vocals blend beautifully, regardless of how they were recorded.

All very good points. I think for me there are two things at play. One is that when I know that the vocals were recorded separately, it is much harder for the singers to sound like they've got any synergy or a true collaborative artistic process going on as I am a more critical listener. The second is that if I assume they were together, or have no idea going in, they can still sound like they don't blend well somehow.

As an example of the first problem, I have a hard time listening to the Sinatra duet albums because I know they were all recorded individually. But even if I didn't, somehow to me they come off as too sterile, not organic [[not musical terms, I know).

As an example of the second, the Tony Bennett duets and his album with Lady Gaga to me seem full of great touches that sound like they are spontaneous. So I'd be surprised if they weren't recorded simultaneously, though I really don't know. On the other hand, I hated the old Summer/Streisand "Enough is Enough." Again, I have no idea if they recorded together but their voices don't blend at all and they sound like they're fighting with each other somehow.

And to touch on one of your points, what Marvin and Tammi had was pure magic, however it was created! I do like some of his songs with Diana as well. But clearly, what male singer ever had so much success with so many different partners [[Wells, Terrell, Weston, Ross, and even the ones we didn't know about back then such as Simpson, Page [[or was it Heard? I always forget). I don't think Gaye gets nearly as much credit as he should for how adaptable and flexible he was to his singing partners.

I'm sure all these things are different for each listener.

[thanxal]

vgalindo. I really don't see Marv bashing Diana, or anyone for that matter. And yes it is true that artists are open for critical comments. That goes with the territory, and as long as it is not fiction, I let it stand. However, I don't stand for one member attacking another member. And for the billionth time its only music...get a grip.

Ralph, respectfully...
Marv2 continuously bashes Diana. Its on thread after thread after thread.

If he doesn't like her, that's perfectly fine. He can even express that. But on thread after thread, continuously? What's the point?

[ralpht]

It is his opinion Al.

[thanxal]

It is his opinion Al.

Fair enough Ralph. But can you see where doing this on just about every thread causes constant issues?

A little restraint [[on all sides) would go along way to making these threads about the music, which is why I come here.

[[In fairness, I think the recent round of Mary bashing is just as objectionable. My mother taught me that if I don't have something nice to say, I should keep my mouth shut).

[Bluebrock]

All very good points. I think for me there are two things at play. One is that when I know that the vocals were recorded separately, it is much harder for the singers to sound like they've got any synergy or a true collaborative artistic process going on as I am a more critical listener. The second is that if I assume they were together, or have no idea going in, they can still sound like they don't blend well somehow.

As an example of the first problem, I have a hard time listening to the Sinatra duet albums because I know they were all recorded individually. But even if I didn't, somehow to me they come off as too sterile, not organic [[not musical terms, I know).

As an example of the second, the Tony Bennett duets and his album with Lady Gaga to me seem full of great touches that sound like they are spontaneous. So I'd be surprised if they weren't recorded simultaneously, though I really don't know. On the other hand, I hated the old Summer/Streisand "Enough is Enough." Again, I have no idea if they recorded together but their voices don't blend at all and they sound like they're fighting with each other somehow.

And to touch on one of your points, what Marvin and Tammi had was pure magic, however it was created! I do like some of his songs with Diana as well. But clearly, what male singer ever had so much success with so many different partners [[Wells, Terrell, Weston, Ross, and even the ones we didn't know about back then such as Simpson, Page [[or was it Heard? I always forget). I don't think Gaye gets nearly as much credit as he should for how adaptable and flexible he was to his singing partners.

I'm sure all these things are different for each listener.

The Lady Ga ga/Tony Bennett duets were recorded together just as Bennett's duet with Amy Winehouse was. Streisand and Summer recorded their duet separately.i agree that the Ga Ga/ Bennett album was pretty damn fine Kenneth.

[honest man]

Fair enough Ralph. But can you see where doing this on just about every thread causes constant issues?

A little restraint [[on all sides) would go along way to making these threads about the music, which is why I come here.

[[In fairness, I think the recent round of Mary bashing is just as objectionable. My mother taught me that if I don't have something nice to say, I should keep my mouth shut).

Iwas brought up different to you,i was told id someone hits you ,hit them back harder,and also to fight fire with fire,being the youngest of 8 siblings 4 brothers 3 sisters,i reckon i have turned out smart enough to look after myself,thank you.cheers,

[blackguy69]

May I ask where are you from QUOTE=honest man;391091]Iwas brought up different to you,i was told id someone hits you ,hit them back harder,and also to fight fire with fire,being the youngest of 8 siblings 4 brothers 3 sisters,i reckon i have turned out smart enough to look after myself,thank you.cheers,[/QUOTE]

[ralpht]

Al, you and I are in complete agreement. There should be absolutely no problems on a music forum. But then there is that Diana Ross/Supremes mystique that seems to turn reasonable adults into bickering teenagers. Something I will never understand. So I let things go until it starts to piss me off and I delete the thread. Terrific!

[smallworld]

what male singer ever had so much success with so many different partners

Fred Astaire?

[smallworld]

Streisand and Summer recorded their duet separately.

Not according to this. Apparently Summer fell off her stool while holding a note, prompting Streisand to ask "Are you okay?".

[thanxal]

Al, you and I are in complete agreement. There should be absolutely no problems on a music forum. But then there is that Diana Ross/Supremes mystique that seems to turn reasonable adults into bickering teenagers. Something I will never understand. So I let things go until it starts to piss me off and I delete the thread. Terrific!

Ralph, I lol'ed at this. It's like MAGIC. Just mention Diana Ross/the Supremes and its like a fountain of youth where everyone is 16 again. It reminds me of one of those corny 70s sitcoms... what was it?... "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha". Except here its "Diane, Diane, Diane"...Keep up the good work, Ralph.

[vgalindo]

Fair enough Ralph. But can you see where doing this on just about every thread causes constant issues?

A little restraint [[on all sides) would go along way to making these threads about the music, which is why I come here.

[[In fairness, I think the recent round of Mary bashing is just as objectionable. My mother taught me that if I don't have something nice to say, I should keep my mouth shut).

Yes I agree. I come here for the music and get tired of the bashing. Yes using a little restraint is a very good idea. I use it all the time. Even though I may have a negative opinion on a certain artist. I usually don't post it because I don't want others who like them to get riled up!

[daviddh]

i try to ignore some but some are just funny. but hey maybe some find me funny or whatever.
I do not know either of these ladies/ both are due their props for the work.
but I think some of us can offer opinions or make comments without it being personal while other jump in as if they were there when things happened like a fly on the wall.
Marys solo album sucked , but really so did a few of dianas albums such as Last time I saw Him and I Love You. both contained some ok songs while the rest I scratch my head and say What Were They thinking.
Motown wanted rid of Mary. she sued Motown. the record deal was part of the settlement. they released it and then released her shortly thereafter. they were glad to be rid of her.
she has also made comments about other supremes members while they have never dished on her.
I had to laugh somewhat when she told an interviewer that the 70s supremes were another group. they weren't the supremes. funny my copy of Floy Joy states The Supremes!
when the supremes were inducted in to the rock and roll of fame , cindy and scherrie were there. she never mentioned them at all or called them on stage but later wrote I was the only supremes there that night! what a slap after these ladies helped her.
when Martha Reeves was inducted ...she brought up all her Vandellas on stage. now that's class.
now I have seen Mary perform. great stage presence. lovely in person. and has grown as a singer and performer.my props. but I don't always agree on what she says out of her mouth,
perhaps a duet with her a Marvin would have been nice. come to think of it. I would prefer her and Marvin performing Touch . that would of been nice.
but I did read in Marys book about the Marvin deal. I 'THINK' Mary wrote that her former husband may have not sealed the deal. I will look it up because now I am interested in finding out the details.
but aren't we all here for the music?

[marv2]

i try to ignore some but some are just funny. but hey maybe some find me funny or whatever.
I do not know either of these ladies/ both are due their props for the work.
but I think some of us can offer opinions or make comments without it being personal while other jump in as if they were there when things happened like a fly on the wall.
Marys solo album sucked , but really so did a few of dianas albums such as Last time I saw Him and I Love You. both contained some ok songs while the rest I scratch my head and say What Were They thinking.
Motown wanted rid of Mary. she sued Motown. the record deal was part of the settlement. they released it and then released her shortly thereafter. they were glad to be rid of her.
she has also made comments about other supremes members while they have never dished on her.
I had to laugh somewhat when she told an interviewer that the 70s supremes were another group. they weren't the supremes. funny my copy of Floy Joy states The Supremes!
when the supremes were inducted in to the rock and roll of fame , cindy and scherrie were there. she never mentioned them at all or called them on stage but later wrote I was the only supremes there that night! what a slap after these ladies helped her.
when Martha Reeves was inducted ...she brought up all her Vandellas on stage. now that's class.
now I have seen Mary perform. great stage presence. lovely in person. and has grown as a singer and performer.my props. but I don't always agree on what she says out of her mouth,
perhaps a duet with her a Marvin would have been nice. come to think of it. I would prefer her and Marvin performing Touch . that would of been nice.
but I did read in Marys book about the Marvin deal. I 'THINK' Mary wrote that her former husband may have not sealed the deal. I will look it up because now I am interested in finding out the details.
but aren't we all here for the music?

Motown wanted to be rid of Diane which is why as soon as Berry Gordy was no longer in the picture they stopped promoting her and her music. They eventually dropped her from the label.

[bradsupremes]

when the supremes were inducted in to the rock and roll of fame , cindy and scherrie were there. she never mentioned them at all or called them on stage but later wrote I was the only supremes there that night! what a slap after these ladies helped her.
when Martha Reeves was inducted ...she brought up all her Vandellas on stage. now that's class.

This is the first time I've ever heard both Cindy AND Scherrie were there. Other than hearsay, I don't believe they were there. There are no photos of either lady being present. If someone could produce evidence they were, I'd like to see it.

I'd like to point out the blame put on Mary Wilson regarding excluding the other Supremes from induction is utter ridiculous. I worked at the Rock Hall. I've spoken with individuals on the nominating and voting committees. It is the decision of the Rock Hall on who gets inducted in groups, not the members of the groups themselves. The Rock Hall saw the original three Supremes as having the most success and influence and felt they were the ones who should be inducted. Now, I think Cindy should have been inducted as well as Jean too, but you can't change the past. Look at other groups. There have been many glaring omissions of people not inducted with their groups. Has there been word Otis Williams demanded Richard Street not be inducted? Did the Four Seasons demand Joe Long not be inducted with them? Let's end it here and now. Mary had no power or say over which Supreme got inducted into the Rock Hall.

[marv2]

This is the first time I've ever heard both Cindy AND Scherrie were there. Other than hearsay, I don't believe they were there. There are no photos of either lady being present. If someone could produce evidence they were, I'd like to see it.

I'd like to point out the blame put on Mary Wilson regarding excluding the other Supremes from induction is utter ridiculous. I worked at the Rock Hall. I've spoken with individuals on the nominating and voting committees. It is the decision of the Rock Hall on who gets inducted in groups, not the members of the groups themselves. The Rock Hall saw the original three Supremes as having the most success and influence and felt they were the ones who should be inducted. Now, I think Cindy should have been inducted as well as Jean too, but you can't change the past. Look at other groups. There have been many glaring omissions of people not inducted with their groups. Has there been word Otis Williams demanded Richard Street not be inducted? Did the Four Seasons demand Joe Long not be inducted with them? Let's end it here and now. Mary had no power or say over which Supreme got inducted into the Rock Hall.

They [[Cindy Birdsong and Scherrie Payne) were not there at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony in 1988. He made that up. Why, I am not sure, but I believe to try to make Mary Wilson look bad. She also had no control over what group members would be inducted. The Hall [[meaning the nominating and voting committees) decides who gets in. This was always a lie that's been spread by certain individuals.

[luke]

Didnt it change over the years e.g. When Martha insisted All the Vandellas get inducted?

[marv2]

Didnt it change over the years e.g. When Martha insisted All the Vandellas get inducted?

I don't know if it really changed. I don't know if the Hall knew which set of Vandellas were more prominent than the next set. For instance, Annette left in early 1964 so she is on some of their early hits. Betty Kelly joined in '64 and was there when hits like "Dancing in the Streets" were out. When "Jimmy Mack" became a big hit in 1967, Betty was in the group, but it is my understanding that it was recorded with Annette Sterling still in the group. I don't know if any of this makes sense LOL! Just speculation on my part with the Vandellas.

[bradsupremes]

Didnt it change over the years e.g. When Martha insisted All the Vandellas get inducted?

Martha could have insisted all the Vandellas be inducted, but again it's the decision of the Rock Hall.

Here's some notable exclusions from Rock Hall inductions:
Pete Best - The Beatles
Bruce Johnston - The Beach Boys
Bob Welch - Fleetwood Mac
Joe Long - The Four Seasons
Damon Harris & Richard Street - The Temptations
John Dalton & John Gosling - The Kinks
Several members of the Allman Brothers Band & the Grateful Dead
...this could go on.

Here's a full list of people excluded from induction with their bands/groups. The funny thing is that Sandra Tilley is listed as being excluded from induction. Do we know for sure she was inducted? The Rock Hall website doesn't have her listed as being inducted.
http://www.futurerocklegends.com/Snubbed_Members.php

[marv2]

Martha could have insisted all the Vandellas be inducted, but again it's the decision of the Rock Hall.

Here's some notable exclusions from Rock Hall inductions:
Pete Best - The Beatles
Bruce Johnston - The Beach Boys
Bob Welch - Fleetwood Mac
Joe Long - The Four Seasons
Damon Harris & Richard Street - The Temptations
John Dalton & John Gosling - The Kinks
Several members of the Allman Brothers Band & the Grateful Dead
...this could go on.

Here's a full list of people excluded from induction with their bands/groups. The funny thing is that Sandra Tilley is listed as being excluded from induction. Do we know for sure she was inducted? The Rock Hall website doesn't have her listed as being inducted.
http://www.futurerocklegends.com/Snubbed_Members.php

Thanks Brad for that information. I hope all is going well.

[marv2]

How great is this picture?

[luke]

Wow Florence looks just lovely and Mary looks like Liz Taylor in Cleopatra!

[marv2]

Wow Florence looks just lovely and Mary looks like Liz Taylor in Cleopatra!

They were truly beautiful women....!

[jobeterob]

We all have our preferences

In the end, there are some facts about movies awards hits chart positions background singers being replaced money

A very few did very well- Diana Berry smokey Lionel

Many people didn't

Jealousy by them and on their behalf is natural and hard to overcome - Cindy did it and not many others

It doesn't seem to bother Ralph a lot that a few made a lot. That's to be admired

[rod_rick]

I'm thinking that Cindy and Scherrie were at the Hollywood Walk of fame when theSupremes received their star, not the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but I could be mistaken.

[Bluebrock]

Not according to this. Apparently Summer fell off her stool while holding a note, prompting Streisand to ask "Are you okay?".

I think that was just a publicity photo. I recall reading that Barbra approached Donna to record the duet, but they were in different places at the time of recording, but they did meet up a couple of times afterwards for publicity photos but rarely kept in touch after that. i shall try to dig out more information smallworld. I have heard this story myself but i was told Barbra said this to Donna later when they played it back. Thanks for the info.