Soul music

[MIKEW-UK]

I went to YOUTUBE and saw their suggestions for a selection of soul music.

How many of these would you agree meet your idea of soul music?

Adele Hello

Bruno Mars Versace on the Floor

Adele When We Were Young

Charlie Puth One Call Away

Sam Smith Lay Me Down

Meghan Trainor Like I'm Gonna Lose You

Amy Winehouse Back To Black

Rihanna Love On The Brain

Gnarls Barkley Crazy

Jackson Five Who's Loving You?

The Weeknd Wicked Games

Marvin Gaye Sexual Healing

[[2 is my opinion)

[TomatoTom123]

Haaaa... Mike, I think I can guess which 2 you mean...

I don't really like Adele, Rihanna or The Weeknd [[misspelling "The Weekend" just annoys me in and of itself!!), and I don't really consider Sam Smith or Meghan Trainor Soul singers...? I quite like Charlie Puth [['soulful undertones' maybe), Bruno Mars and Amy Winehouse. But none of their stuff is 'classic Soul music' [[i.e. what people should be hearing when they want to listen to Soul music) IMO.

In other words, where are The Temptations!!???

[splanky]

I went to YOUTUBE and saw their suggestions for a selection of soul music.

How many of these would you agree meet your idea of soul music?

Adele Hello

Bruno Mars Versace on the Floor

Adele When We Were Young

Charlie Puth One Call Away

Sam Smith Lay Me Down

Meghan Trainor Like I'm Gonna Lose You

Amy Winehouse Back To Black

Rihanna Love On The Brain

Gnarls Barkley Crazy

Jackson Five Who's Loving You?

The Weeknd Wicked Games

Marvin Gaye Sexual Healing

[[2 is my opinion)

When you say "YouTube" you mean the site's self generated channel,
right? I looked at it and I see a lot of what I'd call soul and quite a bit
of what I consider R&B flavored pop. Then almost every major selling
genre of music in America has black roots or ties. Anyway going by
just the selections you listed based on the songs almost all of them are pop and I include Marvin Gaye's Sexual Healing though he was
for most of his career a core Soul Music artist. No sweat, I've always
liked some pop. As long as they are true to their sound. I like some
of the stuff Bruno Mars and Cee-lo Green have done and though she
kind of bores me I won't say Adele can't sing...Incidentally, The Temptations as well as The Stylistics and Al Green, among others
are indeed on youtube's channel...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COiI...DQMLa8DF9PsnSg
but that throw down hard core testifyin' classic soul sound that many
of us enjoyed coming up in the 60's and 70's, is not being made too
often these days because most have no taste for it or incapable of
producing it. I take Corrine Bailey Rae's advice here. I put my records
on...

[MIKEW-UK]

Hi Spanky, yes it is the "soul" suggestions by youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-9...ZkZNDHQJ6FgpwQ
and scroll down to soul music.

Same issues apply to Amazon and their categorising as to what is their idea of soul music.

You make excellent points. I believe there is a strong history of true soul music being ignored, under appreciated, misportrayed and poorly imitated and it's not going to change now.

[jsmith]

If I tuned into a channel that purported to play soul music and there were any of the above tracks except Gnarls & Marvin, I would never visit it again.
Whilst lots of the other tracks are good pop tracks, soul they ain't.
It's like calling the Beatles "Money", Moody Blues "Go Now", Hollies "Just One Look"or the Love Affair's "Everlasting Love" soul ... they're about as close to soul as the Spice Girls got.

[TomatoTom123]

A somewhat relevant question: Do you think Soul music gets a generally unfair deal?

I went to a CD store the other day and the 'Soul' section was significantly smaller than the 'Pop / Rock' section. [[On another note, why are 'Pop' and 'Rock' music always thrown in together; they're two distinct genres, aren't they? Anyways.) They also had a vinyl section and I'm pretty sure the only Soul album available in vinyl format was Marvin Gaye's What's Going On.

Thoughts?

[McMotown]

Soul definately gets a raw deal these days the only places I know of to get anything decent are shops that sell 2nd hand, record fairs and on-line.

[TomatoTom123]

Mmm. A shame.

I should have added, the 'Soul' section in the store was the same size as the 'Metal' section.

I nearly threw up right there and then

[soulster]

I've said it before: R&B/soul/whatever, is becoming a forgotten part of American history. And, if I didn't know any better, i'd say that there is a concerted effort to eliminate it from history.

[TomatoTom123]

I've said it before: R&B/soul/whatever, is becoming a forgotten part of American history. And, if I didn't know any better, i'd say that there is a concerted effort to eliminate it from history.

Oh dear, soulster. I hope not but I understand where you're coming from. Why do you think it is becoming forgotten / being erased?

[marv2]

There aren't many good songwriters, singers or real musicians anymore.

[Jerry Oz]

Oh dear, soulster. I hope not but I understand where you're coming from. Why do you think it is becoming forgotten / being erased?

Record producers have been blurring lines for years, creating pop that can play on multiple formats. Of course, the labels prefer this. In my opinion, Soul is going the route that nearly killed Country music when the flavorless pop songs that Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton were churning out in the late '70s and early '80s were taking over. The "Urban Cowboy" soundtrack brought the format back from bring a fringe genre to a powerhouse.

When I seek modern soul music, I usually find it from regional artists who are more likely to be heard in local venues than on national radio or television.

[Jerry Oz]

There aren't many good songwriters, singers or real musicians anymore.

Does it seem like there are fewer bands than there used to be? It seems like the music is created by powerhouse producers more than organically through musicians working together. I could be wrong.

Collaboration is not a bad thing.

[marv2]

Does it seem like there are fewer bands than there used to be? It seems like the music is created by powerhouse producers more than organically through musicians working together. I could be wrong.

Collaboration is not a bad thing.

New music of the type I liked is gone. I remember when there would be a good 10-15 new soul records released every month! i remember making shopping lists of the albums I had to have.......that week! I have not bought a new recording so far this year.

[Jerry Oz]

Me either. I miss the albums by Slave, EW&F, Cameo, Heatwave, and Con Funk Shun that had seven to 12 members. Outside of Prince and Stevie Wonder, few people do everything better than they could with help. So much is done with programming instead of real instruments as well and that alters the feel of songs. Do you remember when Mint Condition blew people away by using real drums when everybody else was using electronic skins or a drum machine.

[splanky]

I've said it before: R&B/soul/whatever, is becoming a forgotten part of American history. And, if I didn't know any better, i'd say that there is a concerted effort to eliminate it from history.

Given the history of race and popular culture in America it's easy for me to see how one could come to this conclusion but I personally don't believe that this is the case with soul music. Actually I think it's
more of a case of abandonment. As occurred with several other genres of music born in black communities the children of the producers began to look at other products and the audiences of the
originators began to reflect more and more those outside of the birth
circle. But nothing is absolute really. Some of the kids have tried to
uphold the flag of soul into the newer times. Though I admit largely
ignored by their target audiences. O well...Also, the notion that there
are no more people singing, writing and playing "real music" is something I don't adhere to as I've said before. I guess I tend to
look somewhere else for satisfaction....

[soulster]

Given the history of race and popular culture in America it's easy for me to see how one could come to this conclusion but I personally don't believe that this is the case with soul music. Actually I think it's
more of a case of abandonment. As occurred with several other genres of music born in black communities the children of the producers began to look at other products and the audiences of the
originators began to reflect more and more those outside of the birth
circle. But nothing is absolute really. Some of the kids have tried to
uphold the flag of soul into the newer times. Though I admit largely
ignored by their target audiences. O well...Also, the notion that there
are no more people singing, writing and playing "real music" is something I don't adhere to as I've said before. I guess I tend to
look somewhere else for satisfaction....

Good points, Splanky, but I was thinking more about our musical heritage of the last 50 years, or so. There are whole chunks of the musical history that are being systematically wiped out by radio and popular culture. It's kind of alarming to see terrible, very low-charting songs like The Romantics "What I Like About You" being elevated to classic status, when few people remember big, across the board tio 10 hits like "Cut The Cake" by AWB. The R&B community may remember it, but the wider American culture doesn't. Hardly anyone I talk to remembers or even knows about "I Wanna Get Next To You" by Rose Royce, despite it being another huge top 10 pop hit, but they sure remember "I Melt With You" by Modern English. Get my drift?

[Jerry Oz]

Sadly, Hip Hop seems to be the genre of choice for the former Soul audience. That's not a knock against Hip Hop or its artists, just that the landscape was once much more full. You had soul music that was influenced by blues, funk, gospel and Caribbean elements. So much more of a choice for the listener.

It's still being made, though. My cousin hipped me to Thundercat a few months ago and I ran out and got two of his albums. But I am sure you didn't hear him on the radio. Joe still performs and some of John Legend's music is soulful if not truly Soul. It's definitely not promoted as much as it used to be.

[MIKEW-UK]

I contend the black music industry itself elected to abandon the soul heritage and move onto a rap/ beats formula, leveraging new technologies to create computer based music cheaply, digital imaging techniques for high impact videos to showcase and promote the characters, and market new street fashions to the youth. Rap and hip hop and the attendant culture were enthusiastically adopted by the black youth community and rapidly crossed over into a global youth market.

No blame or criticism made or implied here, music has always evolved and mutated this was no different. Sadly for us soul fans, the new black music forms had little interest in the soul heritage and its vast reservoir of talented composers, arrangers, and producers, and those individual artists and vocal groups who understood harmonies were left high and dry. The only market where they might still make some kind of living is gospel or the oldies concerts. Think Joe Simon. A wonderful baritone voice, still releasing great gospel oriented material, but could not have survived in the commercial market place.

The irony is today many believe that Adele and Sam Smith are representative of soul music, that's how sad the situation is and how soul has been diluted to parody.

[soulster]

Sadly, Hip Hop seems to be the genre of choice for the former Soul audience. That's not a knock against Hip Hop or its artists, just that the landscape was once much more full. You had soul music that was influenced by blues, funk, gospel and Caribbean elements. So much more of a choice for the listener.

It's still being made, though. My cousin hipped me to Thundercat a few months ago and I ran out and got two of his albums. But I am sure you didn't hear him on the radio. Joe still performs and some of John Legend's music is soulful if not truly Soul. It's definitely not promoted as much as it used to be.

Though most people on this forum don't listen to it, there are a few modern-day pop artists who are keeping the flame.

[soulster]

The irony is today many believe that Adele and Sam Smith are representative of soul music, that's how sad the situation is and how soul has been diluted to parody.

Meghan Trainor makes better R&B music than Adele or Sam Smith, and are faster paced and more fun.

WE have gotten to the point where people don't even know what soul music is anymore. It's cringeworthy when people like Amy Winehouse is called soul. Blues, maybe, but not soul. And, Sam Smith? Puleeezzeee!

[splanky]

Sadly, Hip Hop seems to be the genre of choice for the former Soul audience. That's not a knock against Hip Hop or its artists, just that the landscape was once much more full. You had soul music that was influenced by blues, funk, gospel and Caribbean elements. So much more of a choice for the listener.

It's still being made, though. My cousin hipped me to Thundercat a few months ago and I ran out and got two of his albums. But I am sure you didn't hear him on the radio. Joe still performs and some of John Legend's music is soulful if not truly Soul. It's definitely not promoted as much as it used to be.

It's not easy but for those of us who remember the time
before hip hop became the dominant genre of popular
music accepting it as probably a permanent fixture
of the world musical landscape is a need to do thing.
That said, that mix of influential elements is still occurring today. Actually on a larger scale but the thing is depending on your tastes, you may have to scrape the
crust off the top before you try to digest it. Thundercat
as you mentioned, is a musician who really gets around
and I love his bass playing on Kamasi Washington's Epic
but I have no interest in his earlier involvement in Suicidal Tendencies. Still I like to track his radar because
doing so with artists I like helps me to discover others I like which I'm constantly doing. Anyway with Thundercat
singing too he joins others like Leela James, jazz's Gregory Porter, the underated Alice Smith and others as
singers who work well backed by real musicians enough
to keep me satisfied...

[splanky]

P.S. soulster...it's not soulful at all, not instrumentally virtuoso-like
in it's playing, it's silly and whiter than a cotton ball but you know
what?...I've always liked What I Like About You....sue me...

[MIKEW-UK]

splanky, you offer wise words and a balanced mature opinion. I like the measured thoughts you put forward. We are all sad, even downhearted to see soul music as we know it disappear, but you put an optomistic slant on going forward.

[soulster]

it's silly and whiter than a cotton ball

Hah! I like that! I like their hit "Talking In Your Sleep", but not that other one! Yuk!

[Jerry Oz]

Hah! I like that! I like their hit "Talking In Your Sleep", but not that other one! Yuk!

Just the opposite for me. "Talking In Your Sleep" sounded like it was composed for radio. "What I Like About You" had energy and definitely benefited from a hype but extremely low-budget video. MTV is the only reason anybody outside of Detroit ever heard of the Romantics. And this was at a time when Black artists could not get their songs played on the channel.

In hindsight, I'm pretty sure we can tie the dearth of modern soul records to the inclusion of our music on MTV and the rise of rap as an acceptable music form [[both back in the '80s). You can probably find Pop artists who have Soul influences and Soul artists becoming more Pop if you look hard enough at the charting records after the mid-80s.

Or maybe not.

[icustomboxes]

Hi i am jimmy ,i love music in free time i enjoy pop music,Soul definitely gets a raw deal these days the only places I know of to get anything decent are shops that sell 2nd hand, record fairs and on-line.