The Rayber Voices - Gwen Murray

[copley]

Can anyone please help with information on Gwen Murray who was a late addition to the group? I've not been able to find anything.

Thanks

http://www.marvellousmotown.com/moto...yber-voices-2/

[copley]

Nobody?

[robb_k]

I've always heard Gwen Murray mentioned as a later addition to The RayBer Voices, and nothing more about her, other than a reference to her way into Motown [[which friend brought her in). I think that was on a very early [[2001 or 2002 thread on SDF's original forum. I can't remember who brought her in, but we could search The SDF Archives. But, unfortunately, almost none of those early threads have survived. She came in in early 1960, so her friend had to be someone already around back then. Now Al Abrams is gone. So, we can't ask him. Who is still alive with whom we have contact, who we could ask about Gwen?

[copley]

Thanks Rob

[keith_hughes]

I can't answer your question, copley, but I can mention that she co-wrote Marv Johnson's "I'm Coming Home", and that an early [[pre-Hitsville) recording of her singing a song called "Patty Cake" exists in the Motown Vaults.

Is the website you point to yours? It doesn't seem to show who "owns" it.

[copley]

Thanks Keith. No that website isn't mine, just one that I found when trying research Gwen.

[robb_k]

I can't answer your question, copley, but I can mention that she co-wrote Marv Johnson's "I'm Coming Home", and that an early [[pre-Hitsville) recording of her singing a song called "Patty Cake" exists in the Motown Vaults.

Is the website you point to yours? It doesn't seem to show who "owns" it.

All the copies of that record that I've seen showed only Berry Gordy as the writer of that song. Did Gwen Murray's name get added very recently as part of the effort to get full writing credits and royalties to the original writers? She is also not listed on the record's flip, "River of Tears", which is credited to Berry Gordy and Gil Martin [[misspelt as "Martins").

[woodward]

[QUOTE=copley;377859]Can anyone please help with information on Gwen Murray who was a late addition to the group? I've not been able to find anything.]QUOTE

I have an old Record Profile Magazine R.P.M. from July 1984 which featured a story by Kevin Keegan on Marv Johnson. It is one of the more extensive write ups I have seen on Marv. There is a picture of the Rayber Voices which Marv provided to the author. It shows Robert Bateman, Gwendolyn [U]Murry[U]Brian Holland, Raynoma Liles Gordy Singleton.

The author spelled her last name as Murry, NOT Murray. This could have an impact on her whereabouts. Interesting that 1/2 of them are no longer with us. Hopefully she is with us.

However, the name is spelled Murry underneath the picture but in the article it is spelled Murray. I suspect this is like looking for a needle in a haystack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[copley]

Thanks Woodward

[robb_k]

I looked up her name as a songwriter on BMI.com and ASCAP.com, and nothing came up. If she were co-writer on "I'm Coming Home" [[a song whose rights are still paid for by Jobete Music) shouldn't she be listed?

[motownjohnny]

There aren't many left who were around at that time and might have known her. The only people I can think of are Eddie and Brian Holland, Louvain Demps, Jackie Hicks possibly Martha Reeves and Ros Holmes [[Ashford), Mable John and some of the Miracles. There may be some others, who had admin/technical jobs etc., but I'm not sure any of them are members here or visit the site.

She may have been some young kid from college, who was just passing thru or hanging around Hitsville in the early days and hoping to catching someone's attention and maybe getting a job in the process.

From the fact that her name never comes up in any of the autobiographies that have been published over the years and no-one seems to know of her I'm guessing she didn't stay there for very long.

Maybe she and Eugene Remus met, hit it off and ran away together never to be heard of again. LOL.

[robb_k]

Louvain Demps posted on this forum a few times on threads about The Andantes and I have had Internet "conversations" with her here, and on Motown Junkies, and on Soul-Source Forums/ I will contact her and see if she remembers Gwen. Both of them were fill-ins with the later RayBer Voices, in 1960 and early 1961. They MUST have crossed paths. Louvain even remembered Wade Jones, and was even at his Motown recording session at Bristol Bryant's recording studio in late 1958. She must have met Gwen if the latter hung out at Motown enough to co-write a few songs, and sing background in sessions once in a while.

[robb_k]

I've sent an E-mail message to Ms. Demps on this subject. So, perhaps [[with some luck) we'll know a little more about Ms. Murray soon. Keep your fingers crossed that the two ladies paths have crossed back in the day.

[robb_k]

Here is what Louvain said about Gwen Murry:

"When I had just started going to Hitsville [[ it had not been named at the time ), there was a young lady that was singing with the Rayber Voices , though I never met her, Raynoma spoke to me about her.

The group was traveling to New York, doing backing of artist on stage and she was with them....I was asked to go but I had a young baby at the time and could not travel....When the group came back to Detroit, Raynoma spoke with me, asking if I would join the group, as Ms. Murry would no longer be a part of The Rayber Voices...It seems Gwen was with the group for a very short time.. I think she was a friend of someone....

I'm sorry cannot help very much, as I never met her...though I do know she was there...

Louvain"

It seems that Gwen Murry was a young, aspiring singer and songwriter, who was brought into Motown by a friend, when they first moved to Grand Blvd. It appears that she replaced Sonny Sanders in The RayBer Voices, and Louvain replaced her as the 4th member, along with Robert Bateman, Brian Holland and Raynoma Gordy.

[keith_hughes]

I looked up her name as a songwriter on BMI.com and ASCAP.com, and nothing came up. If she were co-writer on "I'm Coming Home" [[a song whose rights are still paid for by Jobete Music) shouldn't she be listed?

Robb, I've been meaning to reply to your original query on this but life has been a bit full recently.

The Jobete Catalog Jan 1959/Mar 31 1967 lists the writers of "I'm Coming Home" as Brian Holland, Robert Bateman, Berry Gordy Jr and Gwen Murray. That's the only source for Gwen's [[or Brian's or Bert's) authorship I can find. The Tape Filing Card is missing. The Library of Congress file shows just Berry [[and the date May 15 1959, for what that may be worth). And the 45 and all other label credits the same. I couldn't even find the song at BMI or ASCAP so can't say who gets paid nowadays, the EMI site seemed to be down when I looked.