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    The Supremes Exodus in Hawaii 1972 - Lynda lead


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    I have never heard this fefore,Mary Cindy and Lynda sound great here,as i remember back in the day,The Supremes Mary Cindy and Jean,would end they're shows with Exodus,and would always get a standing ovation,it was very dramatic ,i'm loving this version tho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Lynda sounds awesome here. She could easily have taken over as lead singer. I always felt the MJL line up had the potential to be the best ever line up. I know Lynda is not the most popular ex Supreme with Mary or indeed many fans but having interviewed her recently i found her to be the dream interviewee . She was so honest [[perhaps too honest!) and forthright in her views . I learned a great deal from her ,and i now have the ultimate respect for this lady. Others will disagree as is their right , but i really like Lynda and i maintain she should have been given more lead vocals, and as for her natural beauty - wow!!

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    I can't remember: did Mary hire Lynda or was that a corporate hiring? She seemed to have a good ear when it came to powerhouse vocalists and always hired excellent ones when replacements were needed, even if it sometimes turned performances into vocal free-for-alls, as in the later years with Scherrie and Susaye belting it out against each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    I can't remember: did Mary hire Lynda or was that a corporate hiring? She seemed to have a good ear when it came to powerhouse vocalists and always hired excellent ones when replacements were needed, even if it sometimes turned performances into vocal free-for-alls, as in the later years with Scherrie and Susaye belting it out against each other.
    Mary hired Lynda. Mary was the one who did the auditioning and hiring. Motown stayed out of it. Sundray Tucker auditioned for Cindy's spot first then Lynda. Mary probably saw lead potential in Lynda for when Jean would leave thus why she hired her. When Jean left, Cindy returned and then Lynda leaving shortly after, Mary auditioned Leola Jiles and Shelly Clarke from Honey Cone for the third spot, but we all know Scherrie Payne won out.
    Last edited by bradsupremes; 02-09-2017 at 07:09 PM.

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    And didn't Mary turn Someone else down who sang " too good."? Maybe it was after the Supremes broke up for her backup.

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    Now I remember . I think it was Merry Clayton

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    Actually, knowing Cindy was leaving, all three ladies attended a Stevie Wonder concert in LA and saw Lynda onstage. When they called Stevie he sent them Sundray by accident. Sundray then had to call Lynda to say that she was the one the Supremes really wanted, and then Lynda met with Mary, Jean and some execs at Motown. She sang By The Time I Get To Phoenix and I think one other song. She was given the job on the spot and even moved in with Mary in Detroit to learn the show.

    Yes, Lynda has received far too much ire from fans. She was always direct and opinionated. But keep in mind, after only being in the group for a few days she was thrust into the lead singers spot and had to learn that whole show and the dialogue and choreography in only a few days. She is a trouper. Later in NYC at the Copa she was singing background and once again had to assume lead vocals for a couple shows. That had to have been tough. She got no extra money either.

    Shelly Clark never auditioned for The Supremes, she was still under contract to Invictus and still technically a member of Honey Cone, and they were still doing dates at the time of Jean and Lynda's departure. Mary considered many girls including Lois Reeves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan View Post
    Actually, knowing Cindy was leaving, all three ladies attended a Stevie Wonder concert in LA and saw Lynda onstage. When they called Stevie he sent them Sundray by accident. Sundray then had to call Lynda to say that she was the one the Supremes really wanted, and then Lynda met with Mary, Jean and some execs at Motown. She sang By The Time I Get To Phoenix and I think one other song. She was given the job on the spot and even moved in with Mary in Detroit to learn the show.

    Yes, Lynda has received far too much ire from fans. She was always direct and opinionated. But keep in mind, after only being in the group for a few days she was thrust into the lead singers spot and had to learn that whole show and the dialogue and choreography in only a few days. She is a trouper. Later in NYC at the Copa she was singing background and once again had to assume lead vocals for a couple shows. That had to have been tough. She got no extra money either.

    Shelly Clark never auditioned for The Supremes, she was still under contract to Invictus and still technically a member of Honey Cone, and they were still doing dates at the time of Jean and Lynda's departure. Mary considered many girls including Lois Reeves.
    She did not move in with Mary Wilson in Detroit to learn the show. Lynda joined the Supremes in 1972 [[not 1971 as she repeatedly claims.). Mary Wilson was living in LA since 1968. Lynda Lawrence moved into one side of Mary's Detroit twinplex, while Cholly and Maye Atkins lived in the other. Cholly trained her for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Now I remember . I think it was Merry Clayton
    Yes, it was Merry Clayton that auditioned in 1977 for one of the background spots in Mary's show. Eventually, Kaaren Ragland and Karen Jackson were selected.

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    Perhaps there was nothing that would have given the 70's Supremes more hits but I recently saw that the single Touch never even made the Top 100 of the Soul Singles Chart and that appears to have been a significant turning point in their demise

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    That doesn't make sense. They had hits after Touch

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    Remember people,don't go for the bate,hes trying to start something negative here,don't fall for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    That doesn't make sense. They had hits after Touch
    Exactly. It's not like they were having flop after flop. The Supremes were no longer being heavily promoted by the company. When you read something like that, just remember we were around during those times and also, consider the source!

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    Quote Originally Posted by REDHOT View Post
    Remember people,don't go for the bate,hes trying to start something negative here,don't fall for it.
    Exactly! The Supremes were still releasing high quality music all the way up to the time they disbanded in June 1977.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    Perhaps there was nothing that would have given the 70's Supremes more hits but I recently saw that the single Touch never even made the Top 100 of the Soul Singles Chart and that appears to have been a significant turning point in their demise
    It was a brave move to release TOUCH as a single, but it was also a foolish one. Following a commercial smash like NATHAN JONES with such an uncommercial song was always going to be a risky move. TOUCH is a lovely album track with Mary and Jean blending well together but it was never going to be a major hit single. There were more suitable tracks on the album for single release, and jobetrob has a point in what he says. It certainly slowed the hits flow down when the ladies were still pretty hot. A costly error was made here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan View Post
    Actually, knowing Cindy was leaving, all three ladies attended a Stevie Wonder concert in LA and saw Lynda onstage. When they called Stevie he sent them Sundray by accident. Sundray then had to call Lynda to say that she was the one the Supremes really wanted, and then Lynda met with Mary, Jean and some execs at Motown. She sang By The Time I Get To Phoenix and I think one other song. She was given the job on the spot and even moved in with Mary in Detroit to learn the show.

    Yes, Lynda has received far too much ire from fans. She was always direct and opinionated. But keep in mind, after only being in the group for a few days she was thrust into the lead singers spot and had to learn that whole show and the dialogue and choreography in only a few days. She is a trouper. Later in NYC at the Copa she was singing background and once again had to assume lead vocals for a couple shows. That had to have been tough. She got no extra money either.

    Shelly Clark never auditioned for The Supremes, she was still under contract to Invictus and still technically a member of Honey Cone, and they were still doing dates at the time of Jean and Lynda's departure. Mary considered many girls including Lois Reeves.
    I found her to be great company. She told me some fascinating things that i didn't know about. She wanted what was best for the group which did not always sit well with other people. Sometimes a new set of eyes and ears can see things that existing eyes and ears cannot or will not acknowledge. She got along very well with Jean Terrell as indeed she does to this very day and rates Jean as one of THE great female vocalists, but as we know Lynda was no slouch herself in the vocal department.

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    As usual Marv you profess to more knowledge than you have. Mary owned two homes and divided her time between them. She moved to LA in 1969 but Motown was still recording in Detroit. Both Mary and Lynda have said that for a brief period Lynda lived with Mary on one side of the duplex she owned in Detroit with Cholly and Mae Atkins on the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan View Post
    As usual Marv you profess to more knowledge than you have. Mary owned two homes and divided her time between them. She moved to LA in 1969 but Motown was still recording in Detroit. Both Mary and Lynda have said that for a brief period Lynda lived with Mary on one side of the duplex she owned in Detroit with Cholly and Mae Atkins on the other.
    Nope that's not true. Mary moved to LA in '68. She was one of the first from Motown to move out there. She did not divide her time between LA & Detroit. After Mary initially moved, Miss Johnnie Mae was living there. Mary never lived there when Lynda was renting it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BayouMotownMan View Post
    As usual Marv you profess to more knowledge than you have. Mary owned two homes and divided her time between them. She moved to LA in 1969 but Motown was still recording in Detroit. Both Mary and Lynda have said that for a brief period Lynda lived with Mary on one side of the duplex she owned in Detroit with Cholly and Mae Atkins on the other.
    Yeah well, Motown may have still been recording in Detroit in 1968. Mary Wilson and Cindy Birdsong weren't! They were using the Andantes routinely by that time. Mary and Cindy were living in LA!

    Mary had been living in LA for four years before Lynda Lawrence [[aka Linda Tucker) joined the Supremes.

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    Yep. I remember Mary often saying she and Cindy were among the very first to move to LA.
    Last edited by luke; 02-10-2017 at 08:05 PM.

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    People it's not worth fighting over. Marv you're splitting hairs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Yep. I remember Mary often saying she and Cindy were among the very first to move to LA
    Yep. You know I'm not making this stuff up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackguy69 View Post
    People it's not worth fighting over. Marv you're splitting hairs.
    Blackguy69, I'm not going to fight over something that I know is 100% true.

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    Yep. And Berry chastised Mary for finding her LA house and vacationing in Mexico when he wanted to record Love Child... 1968

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Yep. And Berry chastised Mary for finding her LA house and vacationing in Mexico when he wanted to record Love Child... 1968
    Exactly! LOL! That's what I remember.

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    Yep. Those bad girls Mary and Cindy running wild and not wanting to be on any records anymore!! Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Yep. Those bad girls Mary and Cindy running wild and not wanting to be on any records anymore!! Lol
    Bad, bad girls indeed! LOL! Mary out there partying and Cindy getting all kidnapped and stuff! hehehehehehehehe!

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    One of the Supremes "what ifs" is if they had released a more commercial single instead of Touch, would it have changed their course and extended their shelf life - or was this the decade of the singer songwriter solo artist? Or did the Supremes just fall out of favour because they were regarded as old?

    Is Mary now generally out of favour with most of the ex Supremes or are they all at least on amicable terms?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jobeterob View Post
    One of the Supremes "what ifs" is if they had released a more commercial single instead of Touch, would it have changed their course and extended their shelf life - or was this the decade of the singer songwriter solo artist? Or did the Supremes just fall out of favour because they were regarded as old?

    Is Mary now generally out of favour with most of the ex Supremes or are they all at least on amicable terms?
    That question has been asked so many times and the answer depends upon whom you ask the question to. Various members on this forum have their own opinions as do i but i don't think any useful purpose is served by constantly bringing up this prickly subject. Equally does it really matter when Mary and Cindy moved over to LA or if Lynda ever lived with Mary? It sure as hell doesn't warrant us all declaring war on each other again. This forum has been largely positive of late so why not keep it that way?

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    Well said Bluerock. You're always the voice of reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motownlover1964 View Post
    Well said Bluerock. You're always the voice of reason.
    Thank you motownlover1964 for your kind words.

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    haven't we got old enough and wise enough to let some drama go. darn for years many have stated DR pushed MW at Motown 25 only to find out ,she didn't. lets enjoy the music and the ladies legacy

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    haven't we got old enough and wise enough to let some drama go. darn for years many have stated DR pushed MW at Motown 25 only to find out ,she didn't. lets enjoy the music and the ladies legacy
    Diana Ross did shove Mary Wilson at Motown 25 and later pushed her mic away when introducing Berry Gordy and inviting him down to the stage. There were approx 4,000 eye witnesses that night.

    You see, when you lie like you just did, it keeps stuff going. Cut it out and we'll be fine.

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    lies,lol . calling me a liar .too much. drama . geez. take your own advice and we'll be fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    lies,lol . calling me a liar .too much. drama . geez. take your own advice and we'll be fine.
    Just cut it out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Diana Ross did shove Mary Wilson at Motown 25 and later pushed her mic away when introducing Berry Gordy and inviting him down to the stage. There were approx 4,000 eye witnesses that night.

    You see, when you lie like you just did, it keeps stuff going. Cut it out and we'll be fine.
    Let us all try and cut out the negative crap here. I could blow the whole thing wide open if i so desired after what i have recently learned but would it really serve any useful purpose to spill the beans on here? Let's get the focus back to the music and whilst we all have people on here that we have little time for we should all try and at least respect other peoples opinions. I am going to make a concerted effort to do this and will only retaliate if others continue to be mean. Let us all at least give it a try. Thank you for listening.

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    I keep listening to this performance. It gave me chills. I've never heard the group, let alone MCL, perform this song. What a treasure. I hope we can hear the entire Hawaii concert someday.

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    Good points Marv and Bluebrock. Many of us could blow the whole thing open from what we know . There is a poster here who really knows but has never revealed it. Sometimes when lies are put out people have to tell the truth. Respect gets my vote too! I love the saying ..say what you mean but don't say it mean!

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    Good points Marv and Bluebrock. Many of us could blow the whole thing open from what we know . There is a poster here who really knows but has never revealed it. Sometimes when lies are put out people have to tell the truth. Respect gets my vote too! I love the saying ..say what you mean but don't say it mean!
    Much respect to you Luke for a nicely balanced post. Let us all make a big effort to treat each other with more respect. There are more than enough bad things going on in this world without us guys here creating more. I have not always treated people with sufficient respect, and for that i apologise. Onwards and upwards!

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    ok - this post has, unfortunately, been sidetracked by nonsense. not that it's really all that important but in regards to Mary's house in Detroit, here's what SHE writes in Supreme Faith. This is fall of 1972

    "It was so nice to sleep in my old round bed. After moving to California, I'd given my mother my house, and Willie's family and my Aunt Moneva moved into her old house."

    So yes. Mary moved and was living in LA. however she still owned the properties in Detroit in fall 72 AFTER Lynda joined in the fall. one of the houses was a duplex, with half being rented to Cholly. So when Lynda joined she most certainly could have stayed at the house Mary owned and learned the routines from Cholly.

    As for the Touch question, i don't think that 1 single ended the girls' career, though i do think it was a mistake to be released. Nathan Jones was a hit but i'd hardly label it a MASSIVE hit. i agree it certainly should have been. love that song. and i know it eventually sold a million. but a US pop chart peak of 16 isn't a massive hit. Stoned Love was much closer to a massive hit but that was released nearly a year prior to Touch. they'd released nathan and river, both decent but not massive hits. then came touch and You gotta have love. neither did well.

    i think part of the issue was motown and the sups didn't really move forward enough with evolving the groups image and sound. they started to do this when Jean joined but if you listen to the interviews on the talk shows, the group portraits, etc they were still being passed off as "kittenish glamour girls." I think it was a Mike Douglas show in 70 or 71 where he asked them the number of records they sold and Mary wasn't exactly sure. he laughed he'd be counting them everyday and she responded they go shopping everyday, giggle giggle. When Jean joined they started having a stronger r&b sound but the look was still very Diana Broadway/Glam. not that they needed to switch suddenly to Black Panthers but i don't think they moved with the times enough. They started to fade in the eye of dj's and station managers.

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    I like Touch but I think it would have been better as one lead instead of a duet. Mary is fine voice here and it think it would fit her well. there is a version with Jean and Mary both singing lead in it entirety as that is how it was recorded and later the two voices edited together. perhaps if Jean and Levi or Mary and Smokey had recorded it as a duet. although I like it , the two female leads don't work on this track. but I like as an album track. this is one song I wish Motown would remix.
    I personally would like a Motown remix project but not in terms of NEW producers remixing the old. but someone like Kevin Reeves editing and putting a new fresh out look on some tracks that perhaps didn't get the best mix the first time. I can think of Forever Came Today and Bad Weather also in this list.
    I don't think this song ended their careers but the loss of Frank Wilson and a year later Jean Terrell didn't help it either. also, if you watch the movie Standing in the Shadows of Motown you will get a better understanding of Motown in the 70s. the Funks brothers got phone calls not to show up at the studio in the morning or when they got there , they found a note on the door CLOSED.??? WTF.
    why didn't Motown keep Detroit open for recording and LA for specials and movies. but BG left many behind , ... year after year , as contracts ended , people jumped ship. Motown left everyone behind ,except artists like Steve Wonder , Smokey Robinson who wrote and produced their own material. and of course Diana ross.
    in my opinion BG did ask to manage the supremes twice, once with Jean and then again with Scherrie but MW turned him down. if memory serves me correctly she stated "i didn't want to loose that control again".
    the supremes became lost in the 60s image which to me was apparent with songs such as You're Nobody Until Somebody Loves You. it was time to let go of this old school style and adapt new things and let the ladies sing their own songs. not to mention who came up with the way too fast medleys of hits. way off to the races they were. to bad the ladies had great harmony.
    now I respect Mary but I don't think she should have been in charge but I understand her being the last of the original members, I can see how they happened and why. it was only fair but, she wasn't good at picking hits but she was good at picking the ladies who joined the line up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sup_fan View Post
    ok - this post has, unfortunately, been sidetracked by nonsense. not that it's really all that important but in regards to Mary's house in Detroit, here's what SHE writes in Supreme Faith. This is fall of 1972

    "It was so nice to sleep in my old round bed. After moving to California, I'd given my mother my house, and Willie's family and my Aunt Moneva moved into her old house."

    So yes. Mary moved and was living in LA. however she still owned the properties in Detroit in fall 72 AFTER Lynda joined in the fall. one of the houses was a duplex, with half being rented to Cholly. So when Lynda joined she most certainly could have stayed at the house Mary owned and learned the routines from Cholly.

    As for the Touch question, i don't think that 1 single ended the girls' career, though i do think it was a mistake to be released. Nathan Jones was a hit but i'd hardly label it a MASSIVE hit. i agree it certainly should have been. love that song. and i know it eventually sold a million. but a US pop chart peak of 16 isn't a massive hit. Stoned Love was much closer to a massive hit but that was released nearly a year prior to Touch. they'd released nathan and river, both decent but not massive hits. then came touch and You gotta have love. neither did well.

    i think part of the issue was motown and the sups didn't really move forward enough with evolving the groups image and sound. they started to do this when Jean joined but if you listen to the interviews on the talk shows, the group portraits, etc they were still being passed off as "kittenish glamour girls." I think it was a Mike Douglas show in 70 or 71 where he asked them the number of records they sold and Mary wasn't exactly sure. he laughed he'd be counting them everyday and she responded they go shopping everyday, giggle giggle. When Jean joined they started having a stronger r&b sound but the look was still very Diana Broadway/Glam. not that they needed to switch suddenly to Black Panthers but i don't think they moved with the times enough. They started to fade in the eye of dj's and station managers.
    Nathan Jones was a major hit here in the UK hitting no.5 on the pop charts, Stoned Love had done even better reaching no.3 pop, and even You Gotta Have Love reached the top 30 of the pop charts, but Touch did not even make the top 100. The Supremes were on a hot streak in the UK but Touch brought that to a shuddering halt, until Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine both went top 10, so you can see why i regarded Touch as a big mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    I like Touch but I think it would have been better as one lead instead of a duet. Mary is fine voice here and it think it would fit her well. there is a version with Jean and Mary both singing lead in it entirety as that is how it was recorded and later the two voices edited together. perhaps if Jean and Levi or Mary and Smokey had recorded it as a duet. although I like it , the two female leads don't work on this track. but I like as an album track. this is one song I wish Motown would remix.
    I personally would like a Motown remix project but not in terms of NEW producers remixing the old. but someone like Kevin Reeves editing and putting a new fresh out look on some tracks that perhaps didn't get the best mix the first time. I can think of Forever Came Today and Bad Weather also in this list.
    I don't think this song ended their careers but the loss of Frank Wilson and a year later Jean Terrell didn't help it either. also, if you watch the movie Standing in the Shadows of Motown you will get a better understanding of Motown in the 70s. the Funks brothers got phone calls not to show up at the studio in the morning or when they got there , they found a note on the door CLOSED.??? WTF.
    why didn't Motown keep Detroit open for recording and LA for specials and movies. but BG left many behind , ... year after year , as contracts ended , people jumped ship. Motown left everyone behind ,except artists like Steve Wonder , Smokey Robinson who wrote and produced their own material. and of course Diana ross.
    in my opinion BG did ask to manage the supremes twice, once with Jean and then again with Scherrie but MW turned him down. if memory serves me correctly she stated "i didn't want to loose that control again".
    the supremes became lost in the 60s image which to me was apparent with songs such as You're Nobody Until Somebody Loves You. it was time to let go of this old school style and adapt new things and let the ladies sing their own songs. not to mention who came up with the way too fast medleys of hits. way off to the races they were. to bad the ladies had great harmony.
    now I respect Mary but I don't think she should have been in charge but I understand her being the last of the original members, I can see how they happened and why. it was only fair but, she wasn't good at picking hits but she was good at picking the ladies who joined the line up.
    Did Mary have the authority to select the group single release in 1971 or was it still Motown?
    I also think think and I could be wrong the JMC did change with the time but when Lynda arrived the group went back to the old DR & Supremes format. The Central Park performance is a prime example of the progression of the group. Live in Japan [[JML) showed that they reverted to the old format. To be fair as far as the group look is concerned, all of their peers had the same glam look.

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    I think Honey Cone was funkier and Labelle had already started changing. Some of those changes may have benefited the Supremes and I think when Cindy left something was broken that couldnt get fully fixed
    Last edited by luke; 02-12-2017 at 07:08 PM.

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    rod rick , you may be correct on that. I do think that with Lynda joining the group it did seem to revert back to old school. hmmmm good point.
    I remember a fan club at the time saying the next single was Here Comes The Sunrise. love that song. but than Touch was released. I like both actually and it is my favorite 70s album except for Time N Love.
    I am sure Motown and Frank Wilson picked Touch as a single. usually the producers picked the singles didn't they or the creative control dept. sorry the older I get the more I forget.

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    I haven't heard the central park show in years but I do recall in the early 70s with Jean they seemed to have a solid show.
    still don't know why Frank Wilson stopped working with them. what was up with that. he did return to produce some tracks with them in early 73 ,Love Train and a few more that are still in the vaults.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daviddh View Post
    I haven't heard the central park show in years but I do recall in the early 70s with Jean they seemed to have a solid show.
    still don't know why Frank Wilson stopped working with them. what was up with that. he did return to produce some tracks with them in early 73 ,Love Train and a few more that are still in the vaults.
    Does anyone know the Central Park setlist?

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    This was, indeed, truly wonderful. It's a shame Lynda didn't get more leads during her tenure. Thanks for posting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebrock View Post
    Nathan Jones was a major hit here in the UK hitting no.5 on the pop charts, Stoned Love had done even better reaching no.3 pop, and even You Gotta Have Love reached the top 30 of the pop charts, but Touch did not even make the top 100. The Supremes were on a hot streak in the UK but Touch brought that to a shuddering halt, until Floy Joy and Automatically Sunshine both went top 10, so you can see why i regarded Touch as a big mistake.
    Bluerock - I suspect that at the time, from my own memories, Stoned Love was easily the top selling choon in England. The problem was - if you rememeber, that the charts were rigged because not all record shops counted as 'chart return' stores, and so sales from them were never really measured. The Chart Return stores excluded almost all specialist shops for example, because the idea was to provide a representative sample if sales. In practice it emans that MOR choons seemed to be selling in much greater quantities than they actually were
    As an example, a mate of mine ran a small record shop in North London in the late 1970s. They wern't a Chart Return store, but wanted to be, so someone came down to see them as asked them things like 'how many of the last Clodagh Rogers single did you sell.'.....

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