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  1. #1
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    Hillary Clinton lost. Bernie Sanders could have won....

    We chose the wrong candidate.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...ould-have-won/

    Donald Trump’s stunning victory is less surprising when we remember a simple fact: Hillary Clinton is a deeply unpopular politician. She won a hotly contested primary victory against a uniquely popular candidate, Sen. Bernie Sanders. In her place, could he have beaten Trump?

    That Clinton has unusually high unfavorables has been true for decades. Indeed, it has been a steady fact of her political life. She has annually ranked among the least-liked politicians on the national stage since she was the first lady. In recent years, her low favorability rating was matched only by that of her opponent, animated hate Muppet Donald Trump. In contrast, Sanders enjoys very high popularity, ranking as the most popular senator for two years in a row. Nationally, his favorability rating is more than 10 points higher than Clinton’s, and his unfavorability rating is more than 15 points lower. This popularity would have been a real asset on the campaign trail.

    Clinton’s inability to ever capture the approval of most Americans hurt her in a number of ways. Consider her performance in predominantly black, working-class counties in Michigan. These are precisely the kinds of areas that she was supposed to count on in the Rust Belt, the “blue wall” that would supposedly secure her victory even if she lost out in Florida and North Carolina. And she did earn the majority of their votes, easily winning among black voters in the states, as she did with black voters nationwide. That Democrats remain the party of the black working class is a credit to the party and their candidate.

    But turnout matters in a close election, and here she suffered significantly compared with President Obama in both 2008 and 2012. In Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties in Michigan, the heart of Detroit’s black voting bloc, Clinton won 55 percent of the vote — compared with 69 percent for Obama in 2012. Meanwhile, it was in Michigan that Sanders won his most shocking primary victory, probably through the same forces that hurt Clinton on Election Day: Her agenda did not seem to offer much hope to those hurt by deindustrialization and outsourcing. We can only guess how much better he might have performed there, or in Ohio and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin [[which he also won in a surprising primary upset) had he been the nominee. But there is little doubt now that his success in the Rust Belt was a canary in the coal mine for the Clinton campaign, a now-obvious sign that she was in trouble.

    Indeed, turnout overall was a major problem for the Clinton campaign; though not all votes are yet counted, it’s clear that Clinton received millions fewer votes than Obama in several states, while Trump frequently received more than Mitt Romney did in 2012. Nor did Clinton enjoy the benefits of party crossovers. There was much talk of “Clinton Republicans” who would, in the spirit of the Reagan Democrats, cross party lines to oppose Trump. But according to the exit polling of the New York Times, more Democrats crossed over and voted for Trump than Republicans crossed over and voted for Clinton. Sanders, notably, never had trouble drawing crowds, and in the Democratic primary campaign, turnout rebounded from 2012 lows. Whether that rebound was a result of voters’ enthusiasm for Sanders or the opposite is hard to say; what’s clear is that Clinton wasn’t able to get out the vote herself and that she lost both Democrats and independents to Trump, while Sanders had notorious luck with independent voters.

    You might well say that sexism plays a large role in Clinton’s low popularity. That’s true: She has been the victim of terrible sexism during her entire career. But it is also irrelevant to the question that confronted us in the Democratic primary: Which candidate was most likely to secure the election? Critics of Sanders were quick to poke holes in his high favorability ratings, arguing that he had never been through the bruising Republican attacks that Clinton had and that attack ads spotlighting his self-professed socialism would surely erode his advantage in favorability. Perhaps this was true: Trump surely would’ve pointed out that Sanders identified as a socialist, that he seemed at times radical, and so on. But it fundamentally meant placing a hypothetical above the direct evidence that Sanders was simply a far more popular politician. And the injustice that sexism harms Clinton doesn’t change the fact of it. We knew Clinton was unpopular for a variety of reasons going in, and mainly ignored it.

    Even beyond his advantages in popularity, Sanders would have offered the Democrats advantages in the kind of race he could have run. The Clinton campaign was an incredibly smooth operation in a period of immense public distrust for smooth operators. Clinton’s campaign was defined by its slick Internet presentation and its celebrity endorsements. But neither of these things probably helped her play in the most essential parts of the country, where impeccable web design and Hollywood glamor don’t go as far. Her Twitter account was often masterful, pulling in likes and retweets by the hundreds of thousands — but it turns out retweets aren’t votes. She appeared on the buzzworthy Comedy Central television show “Broad City,” delighting the show’s influential and connected fan base — but it turns out only a couple million people regularly watch that show. She won loud support from celebrities such as the actress and writer Lena Dunham and the musician Beyoncé — but it turns out that wealthy celebrities are not equipped to garner votes in an election defined by populist anger. Clinton’s campaign seemed fixated on appealing to precisely the educated liberal urbanites who were never going to vote for Trump in any scenario.

    If Clinton’s campaign seemed bizarrely pitched toward the interests of those who were always going to vote for her anyway, Sanders was uniquely positioned to reach voters with a different sensibility. In contrast to the millionaire polish of the Clinton camp, Sanders has a somewhat shambolic, grandfatherly presence that conveys an unpretentious and approachable character. Clinton struggled to use Trump’s wealth against him, in large measure because she herself is an immensely wealthy woman. [[In fact, she frequently suggested that Trump wasn’t really all that rich, a ludicrous line of attack from a primary in which Sanders’s play for Nordic-style egalitarian policies won him favor in battleground states such as Pennsylvania.) Sanders would have been able to contrast Trump’s ostentatious wealth with his own shabby aesthetic. The message writes itself: Trump talks a good game about economic anxiety, but why would you trust this New York billionaire to put your interests first?

    By the end of the evening, Clinton’s biggest problem was clear: She needed to win suburban white voters in the Rust Belt, and she could not. Younger voters might not realize that these areas were once Democratic strongholds, thanks to high union rates and traditional support for the party among those working in manufacturing. But years of assaults on union rights by Republicans — often barely opposed by Democratic lawmakers who have seemingly lost interest in organized labor — and severe contractions in manufacturing as an employment base have turned that strength into a weakness. Democrats must now ask themselves: Who would have been a better representative for the party in that region? The millionaire from New York with an entourage of celebrities and the backing of the Democratic money machine? Or a small-city New Deal granddad from Vermont who has spent his political life working with unions and appealing to economic justice and populism?

    There will be years of recriminations in our future. Many Democrats will, as is their habit, conclude that the fault lies with the left wing of the party — that progressive party activists did not sufficiently support the candidate or that leftward attacks weakened Clinton. But that notion hides a simple fact: In an election of immense importance, Democratic leadership and voters rejected a hugely popular candidate in favor of a deeply unpopular one and are now paying the price. Some of us will be asking why for years to come.
    Last edited by marv2; 11-10-2016 at 08:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    Hillary was prob a bad candidate. To some she represented everything about the establishment that they didn't like.

    Yea, Bernie Sanders, he probably would have been a better candidate than Hillary. He was certainly more popular. He might even have beaten Trump. What I would give for that...!

    But, Hillary tried! She remained respectful, looked presidential and fought hard. I suppose it just wasn't enough...?

    [[Oops, I replied before your post was complete, sorry )

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    I think this time it was different. Clinton couldn't secure the Bernie people because she was too tied to the establishment. She tried to run a centrist campaign like her husband did and was forced to adopt a more progressive stance, but she couldn't pull it off very well. She talked a good game near the end but it was a little too late. Only in the last couple of days did she show the fire she should have had all along. And, as she did with Obama eight years ago, she came down hard on Bernie Sanders and alienated his supporters. And, of course, Bill and his big mouth couldn't resist mucking things up more. And there were a lot of Black folks who never forgave her for her "super predator" remarks.

    This, and many other reasons, is why the Democrats can't blame the left wing of the party this time.

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    Trump would have exploited and jumped on the Socialist angle like white on rice. Please, don't believe the hype. Like it or not, she was the best the Dems had. SHRUGS

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    Bernie's a good guy, but IMO I think Trump would have chewed him up. Bernie always came across to me as frail. As for all of Bernie's supporters who punished Hillary by not voting for her. You definitely cut off your nose to spite your face.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ms_m View Post
    Trump would have exploited and jumped on the Socialist angle like white on rice. Please, don't believe the hype. Like it or not, she was the best the Dems had. SHRUGS
    Thanks ms_m. Lets not do this folks. Comey and his 2nd email investigation handed p*ssy grabbing Trump a gift on a silver platter 10 days before the election and Trump and his bigoted henchmen like old Rudy and Blabberbutt Christie ran with it until Comeys worthless butt came out on November 6 and said there was nothing implicating Secreatary Clinton. It was too little too late. Hillary Clinton ran a classy and presidential campaign but that ignorant alt right crowd chose a mysoginistic and racist and sexist and pathological liar and made him President. Its beyond disguszting and all the time Hillary held her head high and plowed on. There all going to have such buyers remorse in about 3 month time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sophisticated_soul View Post
    Bernie's a good guy, but IMO I think Trump would have chewed him up. Bernie always came across to me as frail. As for all of Bernie's supporters who punished Hillary by not voting for her. You definitely cut off your nose to spite your face.
    Bernie's not frail........he is not a punk, I promise you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sophisticated_soul View Post
    Bernie's a good guy, but IMO I think Trump would have chewed him up. Bernie always came across to me as frail. As for all of Bernie's supporters who punished Hillary by not voting for her. You definitely cut off your nose to spite your face.
    \
    yes yes yes he would and shame on the Bernie supporters who stayed home. Your all a part of the ignorant buffoon thatts going to be in the Oval office in January.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    \
    yes yes yes he would and shame on the Bernie supporters who stayed home. Your all a part of the ignorant buffoon thatts going to be in the Oval office in January.
    Yeah, and when they threw their vote away, they threw us under the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Bernie's not frail........he is not a punk, I promise you!
    I did not say he was punk. Please do not credit words to me that I did not state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Bernie's not frail........he is not a punk, I promise you!
    I think the point is, he would not have been able to withstand the onslaught of craziness day in and day out. HRC was use to it. She had been dealing with it for decades.

    Second guessing will not change the results so I'm not sure I understand all the shoulda, coulda, woulda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    I think this time it was different. Clinton couldn't secure the Bernie people because she was too tied to the establishment. She tried to run a centrist campaign like her husband did and was forced to adopt a more progressive stance, but she couldn't pull it off very well. She talked a good game near the end but it was a little too late. Only in the last couple of days did she show the fire she should have had all along. And, as she did with Obama eight years ago, she came down hard on Bernie Sanders and alienated his supporters. And, of course, Bill and his big mouth couldn't resist mucking things up more. And there were a lot of Black folks who never forgave her for her "super predator" remarks.

    This, and many other reasons, is why the Democrats can't blame the left wing of the party this time.
    The thing about the Dreamers is that they were vehement in their attacks on her and Bernie fed on that energy. It's not disputed that the DNC wanted her to be the candidate, but to suggest that she attacked him and he did not reciprocate is not accurate. Bernie gave Trump most of his ammo with the exception of the e-mails.

    It's hard to suggest that he was the more popular candidate when she handily beat him, even without the super delegates. The thing the Democrats did not count on is that once their butts were hurt, the Dreamers were more than willing to sacrifice decades of progressive gains, so long as Clinton failed in her bid.

    They've lost health care, the chance for a higher minimum wage, paid education at state colleges and probably a slew of election and reproductive rights changes. Clinton was not the best choice, but any reasonable person would prefer her over what we are left with. But as it turns out, this is not the year for reasonable people.

    I'm a liberal who is borderline progressive but there's no way that I'd put personal animus toward a candidate over the good of so many others. That's the opposite of what progressives allegedly profess to believe. So, I hope they enjoy their dirty water, their smog, their back room abortions, their future politicians paid for by special interests, their rollbacks on minimum wage, their friends and neighbors being deported, their sons being beat or killed by police without any amount of true investigation, and their friends and family members being trotted off to war against Iran in 2018 [[write it down that I called it first).

    Sometimes, you just gotta stand on your beliefs, regardless of whether it costs you damned nearly everything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Bernie's not frail........he is not a punk, I promise you!
    He's definitely not a punk, but if you think that a socialist Jewish septuagenarian is not going to be rid as hard as a hawkish female career politician, you're not thinking straight. And with the way the press gave Trump a pass on 90% of his issues [[including 100% of his issues with race), they would have found leaks in Sanders' boat as well. I like Bernie, but his followers are as deplorable as Trump's. It's one thing to sacrifice your freedom to a cause, but something altogether different to put peoples of color, Muslims, and LGBTQ people in the line of fire because you butt got hurt.

    With that said, my problem is with their reasoning, not with their right to do it. They're actually happy that things turned out the way they did, even though they placed their own cause back by decades. Maybe by the time they are my age, they will have won back the things I lost two days ago. But by the time they're my age, I'll be dead, so screw 'em.

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    Be it the left, right or other, people tend to look for some magical politician that will make all their troubles go away. He or she simply does not exist. Not everyone's troubles are the same. The sooner folks come to terms with this, the better we will be.

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    But by the time they're my age, I'll be dead, so fuck 'em.

    HAHAHAHAHAHA....Damn skippy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ms_m View Post
    Be it the left, right or other, people tend to look for some magical politician that will make all their troubles go away. He or she simply does not exist. Not everyone's troubles are the same. The sooner folks come to terms with this, the better we will be.
    I don't want a politician to make my problems go away. I want a politician who will not CAUSE problems for me. Hillary wouldn't have made my life easier, but Drumpf will definitely make it more difficult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ms_m View Post
    But by the time they're my age, I'll be dead, so fuck 'em.

    HAHAHAHAHAHA....Damn skippy!
    I edited it because I thought that was too adult for this board, but you quoted me before I could save! LOL!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I edited it because I thought that was too adult for this board, but you quoted me before I could save! LOL!!!
    Worked for me!!!!!!! hahahahahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I don't want a politician to make my problems go away. I want a politician who will not CAUSE problems for me. Hillary wouldn't have made my life easier, but Drumpf will definitely make it more difficult.
    But you're not the average voter Jerry. I have never cared for HRC and it goes back to her FLOTUS days but like you, I knew I didn't and don't have a chance in heck to see my life progress with that other fool.

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    I want to see if his horns reveal themselves at the end of an official address when he tries to say "and God bless America" with a straight face.

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    Internal combustion maybe?

    I was looking at a pic of him with President Obama today and the expression on his face was like...oh s%$t what have I gotten myself into. For a mili sec it made me laugh and then I remembered, Pence is his VP. We are so screwed!

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    Yeah, the Huffington Post captioned its photo "Dignity Meets Disgrace". I couldn't say it any better than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Yeah, the Huffington Post captioned its photo "Dignity Meets Disgrace". I couldn't say it any better than that.
    I saw that and it's funny that you bring up HP. I've been reading them since the day they started, along with Talking Points Memo, Raw Story and a few others. I even use to post on Daily Kos years ago but media/social media is also on my crap list these days.

    None of it has really helped curb the dumbing down of America [[which I believed starting with Reagan). I guess I really am getting too old for all of this and simply ready to tune it all out.

    What will be, will be!
    Last edited by ms_m; 11-10-2016 at 10:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ms_m View Post
    Worked for me!!!!!!! hahahahahaha
    Works for me too!

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    The sad thing is that i don't think that trump actually thought that he was gonna win[i don't think that even he would've said the stuff he did if he were actually serious]but the nut cases loved it and here we are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sophisticated_soul View Post
    I did not say he was punk. Please do not credit words to me that I did not state.
    Where did I say you said it? I SAID IT! Bernie is a lot tougher than may be you realize. He is not a punk~!

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    Personally I think this all started out as his payback for the things President Obama said about him at the Press Corp Dinner during the President's first term. After awhile I think the adulation from the nut cases really started to fuel his narcissism and then he really did want to win. But wanting to win and wanting to be President are two different things with Trump imo which is why Pence was/is such a dangerous choice for VP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ms_m View Post
    Personally I think this all started out as his payback for the things President Obama said about him at the Press Corp Dinner during the President's first term. After awhile I think the adulation from the nut cases really started to fuel his narcissism and then he really did want to win. But wanting to win and wanting to be President are two different things with Trump imo which is why Pence was/is such a dangerous choice for VP.
    I think you might be my long lost sister. I remember that, when President Obama said that he didn't have a job that was as difficult as having to tell Dennis Rodman that he was fired. Trump went from orange to red. Making it more interesting was the fact that gave the address knowing that Seal Team Six was en route to Pakistan to raid Bin Laden's complex. Best president of my lifetime, for many reasons.

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    It's really too bad they don't require a psyc evaluation for potential candidates. I truly believe "elect" has deep seated issues that we still haven't seen.

    Best president of my lifetime, for many reasons.

    Could not agree more my brother could not agree more!

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    Speaking of that, his father had Alzheimer's which, if I'm correct, typically has an onset at just about Der Fuhrer's current age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Speaking of that, his father had Alzheimer's which, if I'm correct, typically has an onset at just about Der Fuhrer's current age.
    Not a comforting thought considering Reagan probably had it as well. The consequence of this mess is beyond the pale and I can't think of one scenario that would play out over the next four years, that would make it all better.
    Last edited by ms_m; 11-11-2016 at 08:13 AM.

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    It could happen. Right now, a lot of Sanders' supporters are thinking hard about not voting or finding a third party candidate to give their vote to, thanks to Bernie's painting Hillary Clinton as being anti-progressive. The way many of them see it, if they can't have $15 as a minimum wage [[something Bernie couldn't promise would happen, BTW), they'd just as soon have a madman who will cost millions their jobs instead of someone who might be able to raise it to $12. Instead of free education at state universities, they'll take someone who will abolish the Department of Education over Clinton, who shares similar views to their candidate.

    I don't think most will feel this way after the debates, but many [[like Cenk Uygur of "The Young Turks") are so butt hurt, they're willing to see at least four years of Donald Trump's America come into being. It seems that the US and British voters have a lot in common as far as the responsibilities and consequences of democratic action/inaction.
    So tell me, what are tomorrow's winning lottery numbers? LOL

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    One thing I noticed throughout this long campaign process is that in this country we've been orientated to believe that everyone should be retired at the age of 65! Here we had Hillary that is 68-69 years old, Bernie who is 74 years old and the Donald who is 70 years old and about to take on the most stressful and demanding job in the country! I feel like a kid now. LOL!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    I think you might be my long lost sister. I remember that, when President Obama said that he didn't have a job that was as difficult as having to tell Dennis Rodman that he was fired. Trump went from orange to red. Making it more interesting was the fact that gave the address knowing that Seal Team Six was en route to Pakistan to raid Bin Laden's complex. Best president of my lifetime, for many reasons.
    When he fired Dionne Warwick and kept NeNe Leakes........I was done! LOL!!!!

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    I'm getting this sinking feeling of what's gonna happen when this nut gets[b-o-r-e-d]and doesn't want to[p-l-a-y]president anymore!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by arr&bee View Post
    I'm getting this sinking feeling of what's gonna happen when this nut gets[b-o-r-e-d]and doesn't want to[p-l-a-y]president anymore!!!!!!!
    Oh Stuff! I completely agree! He does seem like a big kid that wants to play President. He's going to build a 1900 mile wall? Yeah, ah huh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arr&bee View Post
    I'm getting this sinking feeling of what's gonna happen when this nut gets[b-o-r-e-d]and doesn't want to[p-l-a-y]president anymore!!!!!!!
    Okay, let me channel Negrodamus here and make a prophecy. You can write this down and let me know if I was right or wrong. I pray that I'm wrong, but I'm not.

    1. By the end of 2018, the economy will have indicators showing a slide, including inflation, higher gas prices, and unemployment ticking up.
    2. There will have been at least two significant terror incidents within the US by then, each worse than any that we have seen since 9/11. These will be conducted by sleeper cells, one will be in Minnesota and the other might be in either Wisconsin or Ohio.
    3. There will be no wall and there will be frustration over the fact that Trump has not moved as quickly to remove undocumented immigrants as he promised and there will surely be neither a wall nor plans for one.
    4. Police incidents will have increased alarmingly and there will be zero trust between most Black or other peoples of color toward the cops. The move toward body cameras will stop almost immediately and people recording cop incidents will increasingly be the victims of brutality.
    5. The most restrictive abortion laws yet will have been placed in effect in almost every state with a Republican government. Trump's replacement of Antonin Scalia will absolutely uphold their rights to do that, just as they will affirm the rights of states to severely limit who can vote and when voting may occur, regardless of whether the goal of these restrictions is discriminatory.
    6. There will be no jobs "brought back" as a result of protectionism because if we sanction the world with tariffs, the world will sanction us even more and it will not be profitable to sell our goods overseas. Does it make sense to suggest that we'll make it more expensive to import goods? That will raise prices here. Also, if it costs more to purchase imported goods, the price of domestic goods will necessarily rise due to decreased supply. [[That's the end game of his presidency, by the way. He's a businessman and his friends will earn more when things cost more.)
    6. To distract everybody's attention from the failed promises and increasing buyers' remorse of electing a career liar and cheat, a foreign threat will arise and we will have our soldiers fighting another unpaid war, probably in the Middle East. It won't be in Syria because Russia will be controlling Syria. In fact, our advising troops will be brought back by Summer. My best guess is we will have an incident with Iran in the Straight of Hormuz after breaking the nuclear treaty and we will fight them there and in Yemen.

    I hope I'm wrong, but these cards are laid out and I'd be willing to bet that at least four of them will be revealed, especially the last one.

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke
    Last edited by Jerry Oz; 11-11-2016 at 02:34 PM.

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    What really happened with Pres. Obama met Trump at the White House:

    Attachment 11990

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    That's some good PhotoShop right there, boy!

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    I still can't believe how people in this country just threw Bill Cosby under the bus, then turned around and voted for Donald Trump! Amazing.

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    They did both for the same reason, Marv.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    What really happened with Pres. Obama met Trump at the White House:

    Attachment 11990
    OMG...how did you discover MY fantasy....although I was thinking along the lines of him pimp walking towards the helicopter on the way out and giving the bird.....LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Okay, let me channel Negrodamus here and make a prophecy. You can write this down and let me know if I was right or wrong. I pray that I'm wrong, but I'm not.

    1. By the end of 2018, the economy will have indicators showing a slide, including inflation, higher gas prices, and unemployment ticking up.
    2. There will have been at least two significant terror incidents within the US by then, each worse than any that we have seen since 9/11. These will be conducted by sleeper cells, one will be in Minnesota and the other might be in either Wisconsin or Ohio.
    3. There will be no wall and there will be frustration over the fact that Trump has not moved as quickly to remove undocumented immigrants as he promised and there will surely be neither a wall nor plans for one.
    4. Police incidents will have increased alarmingly and there will be zero trust between most Black or other peoples of color toward the cops. The move toward body cameras will stop almost immediately and people recording cop incidents will increasingly be the victims of brutality.
    5. The most restrictive abortion laws yet will have been placed in effect in almost every state with a Republican government. Trump's replacement of Antonin Scalia will absolutely uphold their rights to do that, just as they will affirm the rights of states to severely limit who can vote and when voting may occur, regardless of whether the goal of these restrictions is discriminatory.
    6. There will be no jobs "brought back" as a result of protectionism because if we sanction the world with tariffs, the world will sanction us even more and it will not be profitable to sell our goods overseas. Does it make sense to suggest that we'll make it more expensive to import goods? That will raise prices here. Also, if it costs more to purchase imported goods, the price of domestic goods will necessarily rise due to decreased supply. [[That's the end game of his presidency, by the way. He's a businessman and his friends will earn more when things cost more.)
    6. To distract everybody's attention from the failed promises and increasing buyers' remorse of electing a career liar and cheat, a foreign threat will arise and we will have our soldiers fighting another unpaid war, probably in the Middle East. It won't be in Syria because Russia will be controlling Syria. In fact, our advising troops will be brought back by Summer. My best guess is we will have an incident with Iran in the Straight of Hormuz after breaking the nuclear treaty and we will fight them there and in Yemen.

    I hope I'm wrong, but these cards are laid out and I'd be willing to bet that at least four of them will be revealed, especially the last one.

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - Edmund Burke
    ...and yet you think we'll survive. LOL

    But ok I'll give you survive however,we'll be looking like the salmon that fights up stream....and keep in mind, they don't all make it to the top.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    One thing I noticed throughout this long campaign process is that in this country we've been orientated to believe that everyone should be retired at the age of 65! Here we had Hillary that is 68-69 years old, Bernie who is 74 years old and the Donald who is 70 years old and about to take on the most stressful and demanding job in the country! I feel like a kid now. LOL!!!!!
    You're in your 50's, you are a kid.....lol

    Age, experience and wisdom means a lot but I must admit I'd like to look to someone younger in the WH. shrugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roberta75 View Post
    Hillary Clinton ran a classy and presidential campaign ...
    Maybe it was too classy. The mood of the country was not to keep with the same 'ol, same 'ol politics as usual. People on both the left and the right wanted radical change, and I really don't think she ever got the message. She did what Democrats always do: they assume that people will come to their senses and think rationally. This time, they didn't. I think she got a lot of bad advice. She didn't court the younger generation like she should have. Granted, there was a lot of ground to cover this time as far as policy is concerned, but you see that Trump didn't do it, and it worked for him. Trump won on smear and fear. Maybe Clinton should done more of that, too. Trump got the most reaction from the revelations of that Access Hollywood tape. So, why didn't Hillary push this? Why didn't she play up that lawsuit alleging Trump and another man raped her as a 13-year-old in 1990? It would seem that it would have been a slam-dunk for her. Was it because of Bill Clinton's problems with Jennifer Flowers, Monica Lewinski, and others? I don't kn ow about you all, but I was really hoping someone would come up with something so damaging to Trump that he would lose, but no one did. Larry Flynt, and others even offered to pay the legal fees of anyone who came out with evidence. It's out there. There is still time.

  46. #46
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    I can't wait to see this on a billboard in a few months:

    Name:  Do You Miss Me Yet.jpg
Views: 169
Size:  23.4 KB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    They did both for the same reason, Marv.
    Although I understand your point, after Cosby's affidavits were released he was toast or should I say, the proof was in the pudding. [[pun intended) Mr. P grabber was/is all about deny, deny deny. Doesn't make either one stellar in my book though.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerry oz View Post
    okay, let me channel negrodamus here and make a prophecy. You can write this down and let me know if i was right or wrong. I pray that i'm wrong, but i'm not.

    1. By the end of 2018, the economy will have indicators showing a slide, including inflation, higher gas prices, and unemployment ticking up.
    2. There will have been at least two significant terror incidents within the us by then, each worse than any that we have seen since 9/11. These will be conducted by sleeper cells, one will be in minnesota and the other might be in either wisconsin or ohio.
    3. there will be no wall and there will be frustration over the fact that trump has not moved as quickly to remove undocumented immigrants as he promised and there will surely be neither a wall nor plans for one.
    4. police incidents will have increased alarmingly and there will be zero trust between most black or other peoples of color toward the cops. The move toward body cameras will stop almost immediately and people recording cop incidents will increasingly be the victims of brutality.
    5. The most restrictive abortion laws yet will have been placed in effect in almost every state with a republican government. Trump's replacement of antonin scalia will absolutely uphold their rights to do that, just as they will affirm the rights of states to severely limit who can vote and when voting may occur, regardless of whether the goal of these restrictions is discriminatory.
    6. there will be no jobs "brought back" as a result of protectionism because if we sanction the world with tariffs, the world will sanction us even more and it will not be profitable to sell our goods overseas. Does it make sense to suggest that we'll make it more expensive to import goods? That will raise prices here. Also, if it costs more to purchase imported goods, the price of domestic goods will necessarily rise due to decreased supply. [[that's the end game of his presidency, by the way. He's a businessman and his friends will earn more when things cost more.)
    6. To distract everybody's attention from the failed promises and increasing buyers' remorse of electing a career liar and cheat, a foreign threat will arise and we will have our soldiers fighting another unpaid war, probably in the middle east. It won't be in syria because russia will be controlling syria. In fact, our advising troops will be brought back by summer. My best guess is we will have an incident with iran in the straight of hormuz after breaking the nuclear treaty and we will fight them there and in yemen.

    I hope i'm wrong, but these cards are laid out and i'd be willing to bet that at least four of them will be revealed, especially the last one.

    all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. - edmund burke
    thanks alot,now i'm gonna go make the strongest batch of hooch ever,and crawl into my bomb shelter with my temps records and wait for the end...good night!!!!!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by arr&bee View Post
    thanks alot,now i'm gonna go make the strongest batch of hooch ever,and crawl into my bomb shelter with my temps records and wait for the end...good night!!!!!
    leave a bottle for me please....I'll leave the porch light on for ya

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by ms_m View Post
    leave a bottle for me please....I'll leave the porch light on for ya
    HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.......[gotta laugh to keep from crying]I GOT AN EXTRA CHAIR FOR YOU MS M AND I GOT SOME[FOUR TOPS]RECORDS TOO!!!

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