"In These Changing Times" by The Four Tops - Why?!!

**TomatoTom123** · 10-25-2016, 09:34 PM

The fantastic Four Tops recorded this brilliantly soulful tune for their 1970 album Changing Times. It was also released as a single the following year.

However, what is up with that introduction!!? Why does it have to ruin a perfectly good song, why!? Lol
To me it just seems messy, distorted and unnecessary, and just outright weird...

**mowest** · 10-26-2016, 02:14 AM

"However, what is up with that introduction!!? Why does it have to ruin a perfectly good song, why!? Lol
To me it just seems messy, distorted and unnecessary, and just outright weird..."

I think it’s a nod to the psychedelia of the times.

**TomatoTom123** · 10-26-2016, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by mowest

I think it’s a nod to the psychedelia of the times.

Ahh, like... The Temptations! Actually, I believe the producer of the track is Frank Wilson, who was supposed to be the protege of Norman Whitfield...?

**soulster** · 10-26-2016, 04:19 AM

Originally Posted by TomatoTom123

The fantastic Four Tops recorded this brilliantly soulful tune for their 1970 album Changing Times. It was also released as a single the following year.

However, what is up with that introduction!!? Why does it have to ruin a perfectly good song, why!? Lol
To me it just seems messy, distorted and unnecessary, and just outright weird...

I like the intro. You gotta remember it was 1970 and the times really were changing, musically, and otherwise.

Musically, Norman Whitfield, like him or not, got The Temptations' back in the upper registers of the pop chart, and gave them a new voice for the younger Black generation coming up. Curtis Mayfield, George Clinton, and The Isley Brothers were also making socially relevant music, and The Tops wanted a piece of that. It was no longer cool for soul artists to just keep making three-minute love songs. Police brutality, Viet Nam, drugs, jobs, equality...all of those things were becoming more important, especially in the Black community. Problem is, the Motown suits still preferred those little love songs. It's what they knew, and what paid the bills. They were content to allow Whitfield and Frank Wilson use The Temptations, Undisputed Truth, and Edwin Starr for the youngbloods. My guess is that Motown decided message music wasn't for the Four Tops. The group tried to be creative, but my guess is that Motown wouldn't support them on it, let them run out their contract, and then they bolted for ABC-Dunhill in 1972. Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder had to fight for their creative rights, but stayed. Notice that Rare Earth was given their own label.

**TomatoTom123** · 10-26-2016, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by soulster

I like the intro. You gotta remember it was 1970 and the times really were changing, musically, and otherwise.

Hmm, I think they could have been current and with-it and what-not without that weird intro. I don't know.

As for everything else...

Originally Posted by soulster

Musically, Norman Whitfield, like him or not, got The Temptations' back in the upper registers of the pop chart, and gave them a new voice for the younger Black generation coming up. Curtis Mayfield, George Clinton, and The Isley Brothers were also making socially relevant music, and The Tops wanted a piece of that. It was no longer cool for soul artists to just keep making three-minute love songs. Police brutality, Viet Nam, drugs, jobs, equality...all of those things were becoming more important, especially in the Black community. Problem is, the Motown suits still preferred those little love songs. It's what they knew, and what paid the bills. They were content to allow Whitfield and Frank Wilson to use The Temptations, Undisputed Truth, and Edwin Starr for the youngbloods. My guess is that Motown decided message music wasn't for the Four Tops. The group tried to be creative, but my guess is that Motown wouldn't support them on it, let them run out their contract, and then they bolted for ABC-Dunhill in 1972. Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder had to fight for their creative rights, but stayed. Notice that Rare Earth was given their own label.

I make you right! Norman Whitfield and Frank Wilson were Motown's most adventurous producers. The Tops did score hit with the socially-conscious "Still Water [[Love)" but most of their '70s Motown output was still love songs!

**mysterysinger** · 10-26-2016, 08:20 AM

I don't see anything wrong with the introduction. I've always assumed it was a nod to sounds through time culminating in the sound of a jet engine and then the sound of clocks to define "time". It also provides a theme for the whole "In These Changing Times" album making it a kind of concept album. I also think it was a good album track but maybe not strong enough for a single - this applies to all the songs on the LP for me. I do listen to it from time to time.

**snakepit** · 10-26-2016, 09:27 AM

Gimmick?
Producers experimenting with something new..not necessarily music either

**lockhartgary** · 10-26-2016, 12:06 PM

I like how the album cover fits the title tracks' title. You have the old man [[who represents the past) sitting out front with his hand on his face, as if to say, "I don't understand what's happening with our young folks!" And then you have the Four Tops dressed in the then current clothes. What a contrast!

**soulwally** · 10-26-2016, 03:12 PM

Stick with the single mix, no freaky intro there...

**arr&bee** · 10-26-2016, 03:32 PM

In these changing times is good, my problem is with some of those corny songs before they left motown...if i were a carpenter[picture the founding fathers dancin to it in 1776].

**Motown Eddie** · 10-26-2016, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by TomatoTom123

The fantastic Four Tops recorded this brilliantly soulful tune for their 1970 album Changing Times. It was also released as a single the following year.

However, what is up with that introduction!!? Why does it have to ruin a perfectly good song, why!? Lol
To me it just seems messy, distorted and unnecessary, and just outright weird...

I guess Frank Wilson [[who produced the song) wanted a piece of the psychedelic sounds that were in vogue at the time. It also sounded like an attempt to follow up the Still Waters Run Deep LP with something that sounded a little more ambitious.

**Motown Eddie** · 10-26-2016, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by soulster

I like the intro. You gotta remember it was 1970 and the times really were changing, musically, and otherwise.

Musically, Norman Whitfield, like him or not, got The Temptations' back in the upper registers of the pop chart, and gave them a new voice for the younger Black generation coming up. Curtis Mayfield, George Clinton, and The Isley Brothers were also making socially relevant music, and The Tops wanted a piece of that. It was no longer cool for soul artists to just keep making three-minute love songs. Police brutality, Viet Nam, drugs, jobs, equality...all of those things were becoming more important, especially in the Black community. Problem is, the Motown suits still preferred those little love songs. It's what they knew, and what paid the bills. They were content to allow Whitfield and Frank Wilson use The Temptations, Undisputed Truth, and Edwin Starr for the youngbloods. My guess is that Motown decided message music wasn't for the Four Tops. The group tried to be creative, but my guess is that Motown wouldn't support them on it, let them run out their contract, and then they bolted for ABC-Dunhill in 1972. Marvin Gaye and Stevie Wonder had to fight for their creative rights, but stayed. Notice that Rare Earth was given their own label.

Rare Earth was NEVER given their own label. Motown simply agreed with the group's suggestion that they name their rock & pop label after them.

**Motown Eddie** · 10-26-2016, 04:18 PM

Another thing about "In These Changing Times"; psychedelic sounds [[like the one used on the song's intro) were used to try to get The Tops airplay on FM rock stations at the time. After seeing this work for The Temptations, Frank Wilson must have decided to give it a try. It's certainly dated now and at least you can listen to the single version of 'Changing Times' without the intro.

**marv2** · 10-26-2016, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by TomatoTom123

Ahh, like... The Temptations! Actually, I believe the producer of the track is Frank Wilson, who was supposed to be the protege of Norman Whitfield...?

No he wasn't. Frank was not a protege of Norman Whitfield's.

**TomatoTom123** · 10-27-2016, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by marv2

No he wasn't. Frank was not a protege of Norman Whitfield's.

Oh, sorry, my bad Marv. I thought I had read that somewhere.

**soulster** · 10-27-2016, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Motown Eddie

Rare Earth was NEVER given their own label. Motown simply agreed with the group's suggestion that they name their rock & pop label after them.

Same thing, really.It's called a boutique label. The rationale was so that rock stations would play their records,since most would shy away from the Motown logo, thinking it was soul music.

**imakicola** · 10-29-2016, 02:37 AM

It's weird that the Dixieland song is heard in parts of the intro lol

**TomatoTom123** · 10-30-2016, 06:51 PM

The flip-side is somewhat funkier but still very nice...

thomas96 · 11-01-2016, 10:39 PM

I don't particularly love the intro, but don't feel it ruins the song. Could certainly be shorter...

**theboyfromxtown** · 11-02-2016, 02:27 AM

Minus the circus background

**TomatoTom123** · 11-02-2016, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by thomas96

I don't particularly love the intro, but don't feel it ruins the song. Could certainly be shorter...

Yea, thomas96. I don't know but I think it feels more like a "proper" [[i.e. good) song without the intro.

**TomatoTom123** · 11-02-2016, 12:38 PM

For reference, the single [[that is, without the intro) made #70 on the Billboard Hot 100 and #28 on the R&B Charts in July of 1971.

**TomatoTom123** · 01-03-2017, 02:02 PM

LYRIC QUESTION!

I have really been struggling with the lyrics for the first verse of this song, and having both written them down myself and consulted lyrics websites I came up with this:

How much of a sinner do you see [[Stray away)
Mind you, how you miss the scenery
That's why the day the love don't last [[Stray away)
Makes life is movin' much too fast

I think I must have got something wrong here 'cause that don't make much sense to me at all...!!??

**johnny_raven** · 01-03-2017, 03:57 PM

Tom:

you can't trust lyric websites ... they consistently get it wrong. This is what I hear ...

How much of the city do you see [[Stray away)
Flyin' to high, you miss the scenery
That's why today love don't last [[Stray away)
Because of life, it's movin' much too fast

**johnny_raven** · 01-03-2017, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by 144man

I think the first two lines are:

How much of a city do you see,
Blind to how you miss the scenery.

Oh, I think you're right ... I hear that now!

**TomatoTom123** · 01-03-2017, 05:07 PM

Thanks johnny and 144man
I'm normally alright at making out lyrics but I have to say I could NOT do this one!!!

I'm listening again and think I got this:

How much of a city do you see [[Stray away)
Flying too high, you miss the scenery
That's why today love don't last [[Stray away)
The pace of life is moving much too fast