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    Three Police Officers Killed and Several Wounded in Baton Rouge Shooting


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    I can't begin to think how the families left behind are feeling at the moment.

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    One of the officers who lost his life has been named. His Facebook site shows a picture of his baby son.

    My heart goes out to his family and friends.
    Last edited by theboyfromxtown; 07-18-2016 at 04:46 AM.

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    The picture comes into focus. I wondered why they were so quick to rule out a racial motivation behind these murders. It turns out the killer was a sovereign citizen, not a Black Lives Matter activist. Curiously, BLM has been labeled a terrorist organization without cause, but neither the cops nor the mainstream media will call sovereign citizens terrorists, in spite of an extensive history of killing cops and wanting to bring down the government. This might be their opportunity to mobilize. Scary.

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    Why are there examples of messages from BlacklivesMatter celebrating the death of these officers?

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    Do you have a link or did somebody tell you about that around the water cooler? Even the police quickly took out race as his motivation. People who call BLM a terrorist organization seldom, if ever, back it up. They also NEVER acknowledge the clear problem that led to the movement. They'd rather bend every discussion into semantics over the use the word "Black" on the movement's name, as if they'd find themselves on board of the name was "Black Lives Matter, Too".

    And I'll ask you what is your opinion the police supervisor ordering the cop to only stop and arrest Black men? Or the cop who shot and killed Philando Castile pulling him over because he had a "wide-set" nose like he alleged saw in a description of a robbery suspect? Had the description said it was a brunette man, do you think - even for a minute - that he would have pulled every White man with dark hair over?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Do you have a link or did somebody tell you about that around the water cooler? Even the police quickly took out race as his motivation. People who call BLM a terrorist organization seldom, if ever, back it up. They also NEVER acknowledge the clear problem that led to the movement. They'd rather bend every discussion into semantics over the use the word "Black" on the movement's name, as if they'd find themselves on board of the name was "Black Lives Matter, Too".

    And I'll ask you what is your opinion the police supervisor ordering the cop to only stop and arrest Black men? Or the cop who shot and killed Philando Castile pulling him over because he had a "wide-set" nose like he alleged saw in a description of a robbery suspect? Had the description said it was a brunette man, do you think - even for a minute - that he would have pulled every White man with dark hair over?
    Look, it's no different now in 2016 than it was in 1966. Back then they called the Black Panthers terrorists and subversives etc. Now, what do you suppose is the link between that and folks calling BLM a terrorist group?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    The picture comes into focus. I wondered why they were so quick to rule out a racial motivation behind these murders. It turns out the killer was a sovereign citizen, not a Black Lives Matter activist. Curiously, BLM has been labeled a terrorist organization without cause, but neither the cops nor the mainstream media will call sovereign citizens terrorists, in spite of an extensive history of killing cops and wanting to bring down the government. This might be their opportunity to mobilize. Scary.
    Fox, other right-wing media, and certain sheriffs and political pundits are desperately trying to turn BLM into a racial issue. Problem is: they're succeeding.

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    I saw the news report on the internet and here is the link that you requested.

    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/0...gs-on-twitter/

    We don't need to have access to water coolers in the UK - the water from our taps is perfectly safe and drinkable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theboyfromxtown View Post
    I saw the news report on the internet and here is the link that you requested.

    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/0...gs-on-twitter/

    We don't need to have access to water coolers in the UK - the water from our taps is perfectly safe and drinkable.
    Either that safe and drinkable UK water is laced with acid or you are a joke. Breitbart is known for some of the most bigoted articles imaginable and that's your source? The only mention of Black Lives Matter in that post was from the blogger. In fact, the leaders of BLM were quick to condemn the murders in both instances but Breitbart didn't report it. Wonder why? I also wonder why you didn't see it in many other [[more respectable) outlets. Unless you chose not to.

    Accusing those people of representing the movement is like accusing the many racist tweets by neo-Nazis, Aryan Nation members, and KKK of representing Donald Drumpf and the GOP. Accusing BLM of being "anti-police" is also a childish move that only a racist person who is okay with bad policing since it affects more Black people than White would employ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theboyfromxtown View Post
    I saw the news report on the internet and here is the link that you requested.

    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/0...gs-on-twitter/

    We don't need to have access to water coolers in the UK - the water from our taps is perfectly safe and drinkable.
    It's obvious you really don't know about the dynamics of U.S. politics. Breitbart is a far-right website and the far-right, like in your country, attracts the bigots and racists, and conspiracy nuts.

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    I hadn't heard of Breitbart until just recently when it suddenly appeared on my Facebook timeline.

    I am happy to admit that I know little about US politics but I thought that by asking, I might get to understand the situation a little better.

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    No problem. This political season is like Brexit on steroids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theboyfromxtown View Post
    I hadn't heard of Breitbart until just recently when it suddenly appeared on my Facebook timeline.

    I am happy to admit that I know little about US politics but I thought that by asking, I might get to understand the situation a little better.
    It's very possible Breitbart appeared on your Facebook timeline because FB uses algorithms that monitor what you "like", what you read, and who your friends are, and offers things that they determine are to your liking. So, what FB did was determine that you probably lean to the right, and therefore offered up more right-wing propaganda. That's how it works. If I spent time on FB, i'd get stuff from the likes of Rachel Maddow and Joe Madison.

    I understand you voted for Brexit. I mean, that's your business, but it's also FB's business. Political manipulation is a very dangerous side-effect of what FB does. Google, Bing, and other browsers do the same thing. Look up certain things, and you will start seeing links to websites and blogs that reflect your searches. If you want to avoid this, use a browser like Duck Duck Go.

    The point is: if you "like" something on FB, be very careful of what you pick, because they are tracking you. That's how Mark Zuckerberg makes his money.
    Last edited by soulster; 07-19-2016 at 02:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    No problem. This political season is like Brexit on steroids.
    I don't think we've seen anything yet! It's going to get crazier! Already we have Trump's wife deliver a speech that was clearly lifted from Michelle Obama's 2008 Convention speech, Rudy Giuliani telling conservatives that we should all be "one" country again where there was no racial division, the continued war on Blacks, LGTB, Mexicans, women's reproductive organs, trying to blame everything on Obama and Clinton, and telling bold-face lies in the face of any facts.

    I was going to cancel my cable TV service, but there's too much going on right now. besides, I gotta see what happens on Big Birther...oops...Big Brother!

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    I don't think we've seen anything yet! It's going to get crazier! Already we have Trump's wife deliver a speech that was clearly lifted from Michelle Obama's 2008 Convention speech, Rudy Giuliani telling conservatives that we should all be "one" country again where there was no racial division, the continued war on Blacks, LGTB, Mexicans, women's reproductive organs, trying to blame everything on Obama and Clinton, and telling bold-face lies in the face of any facts.

    I was going to cancel my cable TV service, but there's too much going on right now. besides, I gotta see what happens on Big Birther...oops...Big Brother!
    Just as Mary Wilson said last week. It is going to get worse before it gets better. Hopefully we've gotten close to rock bottom. That Mrs. Trump speech is going to create problems for the Donald. She pulled a Robin Thicke/Pharrell on the First Lady.
    Last edited by marv2; 07-19-2016 at 07:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    That Mrs. Trump speech is going to create problems for the Donald.
    Going to? It already has! It has dominated the news cycle since last night. They can't get away from it! And all the surrogates are blaming Clinton and trying to trivialize it. If only his wife had not claimed she wrote it with a minimum of help. We all know damn well she didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    Going to? It already has!.
    They said it on French TV, too.

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    It looks even worse! According to NBC News, she apparently didn't like the speech, as was written by the two speech writers, so she scrapped most of what they wrote. So, if she did that, she must have been the one who plagiarized Michelle Obama. That's why Donald Trump didn't fire them. They weren't responsible. But to save face, they are blaming Hillary and the so-called liberal media. Problem for them is, the conservative media isn't giving them any slack, either!

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    Twitter was funny on Monday night/Tuesday morning with #FamousMelaniaTrumpQuotes trending heavily.
    http://www.vogue.com/13459516/best-f...social_twitter

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    I happen to be white and British, so in the normal way would never dream of intruding in a thread such as this. However I have read in detail each and every thread that has been started on this forum every time a black male has been murdered by the police, and I have done so with increasing incredulity and horror.

    The frequency and injustice of such happenings make it understandable, even inevitable that some people have had enough and have decided to make a stand by taking retaliatory action.

    I can't approve of the indiscriminate shooting of police officers, but maybe it will save lives in the long run if it makes a police officer face the consequences of his actions and think that by using his gun, he is putting the lives of fellow officers at risk.
    Last edited by 144man; 07-20-2016 at 12:54 PM.

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    The shootings will only make both sides dig in deeper. To be sure, they have absolutely nothing to do with the movement beyond possibly inspiring sympathizers. I'm saddened to read or hear about cops being shot, although I'll admit that I view it differently than I do when I find out about some of their systemically condoned behavior. All we want is accountability and that will never happen without police heirarchy recognizes that they sometimes do make mistakes. It's what happens after those mistakes that infuriates me and many others.

    Closed door grand juries discuss things without transparency and refuse to indict officers, leaving us to trust that they handled the situation correctly. Prosecutors sometimes refuse to hold cops accountable. Judges, even when guilty verdicts are handed down, either give them probation or slap on the wrist sentences [[six months home arrest for a Brooklyn cop who shot a man that spooked him simply by stepping into a stairwell). Patterns of harassment by police against people who complain about their behaviors. The list is long. What I've found is that if the cop does it in uniform, he'll walk free. Most of what he does out of uniform will still not result in legal problems, though.

    They are let free from DUI stops, even when they've caused accidents. Furthermore, if someone is convicted for domestic abuse, they are no longer certified to use firearms. Consequently, police officers almost never arrest other officers for it, even though studies have indicated that between 24% and 40% of police officers' spouses are victims of it. That is disheartening and sad to hear. In my opinion, they should be held to the highest standard of accountability but have nearly none.

    Quis custodiet ipso custodes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    Going to? It already has! It has dominated the news cycle since last night. They can't get away from it! And all the surrogates are blaming Clinton and trying to trivialize it. If only his wife had not claimed she wrote it with a minimum of help. We all know damn well she didn't.
    Good because I don't want them to get away with it. I want the media to make a big deal out of it. It is an indicator of the type of people we're dealing with when it comes to the Trumps and the Republicans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Good because I don't want them to get away with it. I want the media to make a big deal out of it. It is an indicator of the type of people we're dealing with when it comes to the Trumps and the Republicans.
    It might surprise you to know that the BBC News over here have made a very big deal about the plagiarism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    It might surprise you to know that the BBC News over here have made a very big deal about the plagiarism.
    A bit surprising. The evening news in Canada has covered the story pretty extensively.

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    Well, it took two days for somebody to take the fall for it. What an embarrassment; she's either a liar or a cheat. When he returned to Cleveland today, he left her at home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Well, it took two days for somebody to take the fall for it. What an embarrassment; she's either a liar or a cheat. When he returned to Cleveland today, he left her at home.
    I think she is both in this case. She needs a good talking too. I know it was probably not her dream to be the First Lady of the United States, but come on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Good because I don't want them to get away with it. I want the media to make a big deal out of it. It is an indicator of the type of people we're dealing with when it comes to the Trumps and the Republicans.
    It's still in the news cycle. The truth is out that Trump herself plagiarized Obama's speech. It's also out that her having a college degree is a lie. It was concocted to make her look better as Donald Trump's wife.

    And, for some reason, the media really isn't talking about how actor Scott Baio, a Trump supporter, called both Hillary Clinton a c*nt in a tweet while he was sitting in church!

    Last edited by soulster; 07-21-2016 at 04:03 AM.

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    Or that Antonio Sabato said that the president is "absolutely" a Muslim. Or Ben Carson essentially calling Clinton a devil worshiper.

    Trump: Make America Hate Again.

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    Back to the original subject of this thread, Congress is crafting a "Blue Lives Matter" bill that essentially makes any crime against police a hate crime. Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't fabricate assault charges with regularity to back up beating people. Now, you can get added time for their criminal conduct. That's their response to Dallas and Baton Rouge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Or that Antonio Sabato said that the president is "absolutely" a Muslim. Or Ben Carson essentially calling Clinton a devil worshiper.

    Trump: Make America Hate Again.
    It's more like "Make America White and Male Again".


    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...ile-he-n614106

    At least no one died here. I'm tellin; ya: it's the new thing: murder by cop is the thing these days. You want a Black man killed, all you have to do is call 911 and say someone has a gun. You can be certain that some itchy-trigger cop is gonna open fire.
    Last edited by soulster; 07-21-2016 at 03:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Back to the original subject of this thread, Congress is crafting a "Blue Lives Matter" bill that essentially makes any crime against police a hate crime. Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't fabricate assault charges with regularity to back up beating people. Now, you can get added time for their criminal conduct. That's their response to Dallas and Baton Rouge.
    The only thing that makes any sort of sense now would be having an "All Lives Matter" campaign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    The only thing that makes any sort of sense now would be having an "All Lives Matter" campaign.
    That would wrong and highly offensive to a lot of people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    The only thing that makes any sort of sense now would be having an "All Lives Matter" campaign.
    They all matter until some don't matter as much. They could end 90% of the tumult by having open hearings after every use of force but they won't consider it. As a matter of fact, in order to show how much they love the police and to put those [[favorite pejorative phrase for "Black people) in their place, they are making things even less transparent.

    Cops in Santa Ana, California are suing to make sure video of them eating pot brownies and harassing a disabled woman isn't used in their disciplinary hearing. They managed to disable most of the building's security cameras but missed one and they're suggesting that anything after the actual bust should be considered to be private. You can't make this stuff up. Link below.

    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/o...eo-police.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    That would wrong and highly offensive to a lot of people.
    How would that be so? I was brought up to obey the Commandment: "Thou shalt not kill".

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    How would that be so? I was brought up to obey the Commandment: "Thou shalt not kill".
    The Black Lives Matter Movement was created as a response to a national rash of police shooting of unarmed black men for the most trivial of reasons. To now say, well all lives matter is dismissive of what the movement focused on police brutality and consistent murder of black people stands for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    The Black Lives Matter Movement was created as a response to a national rash of police shooting of unarmed black men for the most trivial of reasons. To now say, well all lives matter is dismissive of what the movement focused on police brutality and consistent murder of black people stands for.
    I agree.....

    But how else can the escalation of violence on both sides be stopped? If there are more killings of black officers, who knows where it will all end?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I agree.....

    But how else can the escalation of violence on both sides be stopped? If there are more killings of black officers, who knows where it will all end?
    Prosecute the cops that commit murder on unarmed citizens. Send them to prison. The violence from the other side as you put it, is the reaction to all of those murders of black citizens that have gone unpunished. That is how you put an end to it.

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    All lives do not matter, when some are treated distinctively different......

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    I agree.....

    But how else can the escalation of violence on both sides be stopped? If there are more killings of black officers, who knows where it will all end?
    BOTH sides? Cop killings have decreased for the last 20 years. Killings of unarmed civilians has increased. If there's a war, it's rather one sided and the guys with the guns and badges are winning in a rout. As Marv said, if all lives matter, there would be no movement.

    The very fact that Black people object to senseless killings and demanding change while White people suggest it's not a problem is proof that racism is alive and well. We already have to deal with fewer economic and housing opportunities and worse health care. To suggest that we should shut the f*** up when we say we're tired of being killed is why calls for a "conversation" about race are ridiculous. There's no conversation to be had. No negotiation can result in equality, just less unfair inequality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    All lives do not matter, when some are treated distinctively different......
    Marv, they don't listen. "All Lives Matter" and "Blue Lives Matter" are different ways to tell us to f*** ourselves if we don't like the fact that we're second-class citizens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Oz View Post
    Marv, they don't listen. "All Lives Matter" and "Blue Lives Matter" are different ways to tell us to f*** ourselves if we don't like the fact that we're second-class citizens.
    I am not a second-class citizen and I am not going to be treated like one or let others be treated as such!
    Last edited by marv2; 07-28-2016 at 12:02 AM. Reason: left out the word "not"

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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    I am not a second-class citizen and I am going to be treated like one or let others be treated as such!
    You know and so do I. I'm not paying second class taxes, so I'll be damned if I'll be silent when some civil servant who's paid by my sweat is going to abuse me or my family. I worry so much about my nephews [[thank God I don't have kids) who are all good young men but all of whom have had the experience of being stopped for bogus reasons. And that's why voices need to be heard. Last week, I came to the sad realization that I will not see a colorblind America in my life time. That's depressing and it's something that I will see improve before I go.

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    How do you get the system to change so that cops that murder unarmed citizens are prosecuted? Are "Black Lives Matter" marches going to be enough? [And just to clear up any confusion, if I were living over there, I'd be joining the marches.]

    And Jerry, the only reason I suggested "All Lives Matter" as a possible non-violent way forward is that by its neutrality surely it would be a step on the road to achieving the colour blind America you and I would like to see.

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    I understand, 144man. It's just that the people over here who use that phrase don't seem to care much when the police also kill White people, the disabled, or the elderly. They use it to frame the Black Lives Matter movement as a group of racist malcontents. It has deeply racist connotations [[along with Blue Lives Matter) and exists only to rebuke the calls for change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    How do you get the system to change so that cops that murder unarmed citizens are prosecuted? Are "Black Lives Matter" marches going to be enough? [And just to clear up any confusion, if I were living over there, I'd be joining the marches.]

    And Jerry, the only reason I suggested "All Lives Matter" as a possible non-violent way forward is that by its neutrality surely it would be a step on the road to achieving the colour blind America you and I would like to see.
    In my opinion, the system will only change when BLM alligns with the growing progressive movement and mobilizes the inner cities to register 80% or more voters and they vote in a bloc that puts their candidates in local offices, starting with mayoral offices. The second thing that needs to happen is for affected citizenry and its sympathetic fellow citizens use their money wisely to force large companies [[tentpole local corporations) to go on record as stakeholders in the call for equality. The only things that effect change in the US are money and votes.

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    Thanks for the explanation, Jerry.

    I am happy to be living in a country where the police are rarely armed, and there are sensible gun laws.

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    One of my nephews is 33 years old. He told me last week that he gets stopped by police every few months. Each time they proceed to tear his car apart, trying to find drugs. He works on second shift and leaves work at 2:00 AM, so he's usually one of the only people on the road and that makes him easy to pick on. To make things worse, he doesn't live or work in high crime areas.

    I worry about him and my other nephews [[in particular) because it only takes one moment of frustration to say something that some aggressive cop takes to be disrespect and one of my kids will be beaten and/or arrested for something that he didn't do. Black families in America have what is known as "the talk" with their kids, especially their boys. They tell them how to comport themselves around the cops to avoid unnecessary BS. Sadly, many of the cases of brutality happen to people who have been found to be compliant after body cam footage has been reviewed.

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    There has always been institutionalized racism in London's Metropolitan Police. This has largely been fought from the top down rather than from the grassroots. Even so, the disproportionate stopping of black drivers remains a familiar scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 144man View Post
    There has always been institutionalized racism in London's Metropolitan Police. This has largely been fought from the top down rather than from the grassroots. Even so, the disproportionate stopping of black drivers remains a familiar scenario.
    Does this information come from the Guardian newspaper?

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