Wrong Lead Single - Ross lps

**jobeterob** · 05-19-2016, 05:31 PM

WDFFIL also became a concert staple and while we fans are not super keen on it, it is one of her most popular songs in concert.

**daviddh** · 05-19-2016, 09:38 PM

Albator, I agree about the second CP show, I don't recall singing one song completely . i remember her repeating "spreading love...bum bum...or something to that effect. the best part was the storm.
I think in the 80s , she was recording songs that were ....seemed ...very pop oriented....not always good,.. but more pop...but some songs seem to be better than others...Missing You, Chain Reaction.
I can see why she wanted to produce herself but after one album I would assume she would know she needed help. she wasn't good at producing herself.
I see growth during that era. I think by Swept Away she may have realized the fact but the Eaten Alive album was to late. although I liked it .
one thing I noticed is that Kenny Rogers , Barry Manilow, the Pointer Sisters, all signed with RCA around 1981 but soon all were having troubled by 1985. soon Manilow was back at Arista and soon the other would soon leave RCA. Manilow would complain about RCA at the time.
I think Diana taking off 2 years was a bad call in some ways...out of sight out of mind. when Elvis Presley went in to the army the Col had him record dozens of songs b4 he left so that they could be released while he was away. I would have done the same with Diana but I suppose she felt otherwise. or RCA did. but perhaps they both wanted out by then.
I am glad some like Ross 83. I've tried.side 1 I like but side2 is just lazy,boring and lackluster.
she stopped inventing herself. some of her biggest hits were when Diana pushed herself...Love Hangover,..the Boss...Upside Down. there were no surprises in the 80s ,not for me. a couple nice tracks...All Of You was good.
I think her song If We Hold On Together was the first step back in the right direction and I actually think this is one of her best songs. I actually wish she had signed on with MCA at the time and not resigning with Motown. it was to late

**Albator** · 05-20-2016, 02:41 AM

And what about the stage ?

It seems her peack was 1977/1984.
When she came back in 1989, there was a brief news on Billboard telling the promoters were loosing money on the road. She was not alone since Whitney was on the same list.
I noticed she was doing less and less Radio City and Universal shows with each tour.
84-90-92-95.

In Paris she played an historical theatre in 1973, The Theatre des Champs Elysee [[1 800 seats), than in 1977 The Palais des congres [[3 800), in 1982 she played two shows at night before a packed audiences at The Palais des Sports [[4 800), it was her peak in France.
- 1985 she played for the first and last time an Arena, Bercy [[15 000) and it was only 2/3 full.
- 1989, back to The Palais des Sports [[one of the 2 shows cancelled)
- 1992, back to The Palais des Congrès
- 1994, back to The Palais des Sports
- 2004 at the Olympia [[2000 seats)[[the same place she played with the Supremes)
- 2007 back to The Palais des Sports.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 05-20-2016, 05:28 AM

I could tell you stories about RCA..... lol..from my Bowie days..

**Albator** · 05-20-2016, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

I could tell you stories about RCA..... lol..from my Bowie days..

yessss ! I really wonder about Bob Summer. He was at the international department in the seventies. Specially Japan.

**Bluebrock** · 05-20-2016, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

I could tell you stories about RCA..... lol..from my Bowie days..

I worked with Bowie in the early 80's, and what a lovely, charming man he was. I met up with him again in New York when I was there with Diana. He even remembered my name and invited me to dinner. Sorry for going off topic but what a great guy he was. I was very sad when I heard of his passing.

**reese** · 05-20-2016, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Albator

And what about the stage ?

It seems her peack was 1977/1984.
When she came back in 1989, there was a brief news on Billboard telling the promoters were loosing money on the road. She was not alone since Whitney was on the same list.
I noticed she was doing less and less Radio City and Universal shows with each tour.
84-90-92-95.

I saw Diana in a sports arena in 1979, 1982, 1983, and 1984. Each time the venue sat circa 15,000, and it seemed they were sell-outs or near-sellouts. In 1982, she actually did two dates in the same city, drawing 15,000 the first night, and 10,000 at a different venue the next night. I didn't see her again until 1989, this time at an outdoor venue seating 15,000. The local paper said only a few hundred seats were unsold. But when she came back to the same venue in 1991, she drew only 9,000.

I remember a Billboard story circa 1991 listing performers that year who promoters lost $$ on, and Diana was named. That was the last time I remember her doing an arena tour in the US [[except for RTL). Every time I've seen her since then was in a 5000-6000 or less venue.

**jobeterob** · 05-20-2016, 02:14 PM

Was there a single off Every Day Is a New Day? Or just a series of screw ups? Seems to me Until Me Meet Again went to #1 dance or something.

I wonder if the lead single shouldn't have been He Lives In You ~ forget all the drama with Double Platinum, Brandy's Mom, Brandy etc and that missed opportunity?

**reese** · 05-20-2016, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

Was there a single off Every Day Is a New Day? Or just a series of screw ups? Seems to me Until Me Meet Again went to #1 dance or something.

I wonder if the lead single shouldn't have been He Lives In You ~ forget all the drama with Double Platinum, Brandy's Mom, Brandy etc and that missed opportunity?

No single in America, except for a 12-inch of UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN. In the UK, the first [[only?) single was a remix of NOT OVER YOU YET.

Truth be told, I didn't hear a lot of singles from that album, at least not like I heard on its predecessor, TAKE ME HIGHER. I thought LOVE IS ALL THAT MATTERS as a Brandy duet was a given, but that didn't happen. I liked UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN and SUGARFREE quite a bit. CARRY ON might have done well in the clubs.

**thommg** · 05-20-2016, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

I wonder if the lead single shouldn't have been He Lives In You ~ forget all the drama with Double Platinum, Brandy's Mom, Brandy etc and that missed opportunity?

I'm quite surprised that He Lives In You was not a single. It's from The Lion King and had great potential as a hit. It was one of the only songs from EDIAND that I actually wanted to hear more than once. I appreciate the album a bit more now but when it was released it was just so filled with heartbreak I couldn't listen to it.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 05-20-2016, 04:48 PM

Bob Summer was running RCA U.S. by the late 70's, and I still have mail from him involving RCA's 'revenge' on former Bowie sidekick Cherry Vanilla, a friend of mine from the Warhol days who got screwed over royally by RCA U.S. after making the mistake of signing a ';worldwide' deal with RCA UK, which the U.S. decided to renege on by not providing a U.S. release..don't even know if that was legal.. R.ecord C.emetary A.merica, that's RCA!,,,as Miss Ross found out..

**Jimi LaLumia** · 05-20-2016, 04:51 PM

when I was management at Sam Goody in the late 70's, I emember speaking to Jorge Pinero at RCA iinternational, and a publishing guy named Ron Soleveld regarding the Vanilla business

**daviddh** · 05-20-2016, 10:12 PM

I thought there were plenty of singles on Everyday is New Day.....I like the remix of the title cut and Sugarfree....remix of Not Over You Yet should have been released here in USA .great track.
Carry On was good and He Lives In You. the remix of Until We Meet Again was also good

**daviddh** · 05-20-2016, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by jobeterob

WDFFIL also became a concert staple and while we fans are not super keen on it, it is one of her most popular songs in concert.

it s kind of a fun sing along song....but not my favorite. thought it was strange she recorded it at the time.
funny how there were times when she had singles that went unnoticed , songs I thought should have been hits but weren't.....then in the 80's she was having a streak of pop top ten hits that ,perhaps were not as good as some that were over looked...

**Albator** · 05-21-2016, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by daviddh

it s kind of a fun sing along song....but not my favorite. thought it was strange she recorded it at the time.
funny how there were times when she had singles that went unnoticed , songs I thought should have been hits but weren't.....then in the 80's she was having a streak of pop top ten hits that ,perhaps were not as good as some that were over looked...

Don't you think it's because of the "diana" album success ... A real big big hit, another top 5 hit followed by her biggest hit "Endless love". Usually the next project is helped by the previous one.

"WDFFIL" is a good song and nicely produced, like "rescue me".

**Ollie9** · 05-21-2016, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by sup_fan

again - what a fun ongoing discussion!!

I find it interesting that so many people think WDFFIL was a weak or poor follow up to diana. while I like diana it's hardly her most compelling artistic accomplishment. It is certainly a very commercial effort and a cohesive set with 1 point of view. it's not a patchwork, hodge podge. but her vocals, for the most part, are average. and just a collection of 8 songs with a unified production. frankly diana was a WEAK follow up, artistically, to The Boss. that too was a collection of 8 songs with a unified production POV. but damn! she's singing the hell out of that album. there's also a strong artistic statement being made. the songs all reflect a sense of independence and control. as Randy stated, even the cover graphics presented her as a strong, 80's woman.

I think Diana's vocals on the "diana" album are some of the strongest of her career, regardless of the songs. She really sounds totally committed to what she is singing, and like on "The Boss" she was making a statement of independence which is reflected in her tight, attacking vocal performances. For the first time in quite a while she was hip.
Take away "Mirror Mirror and "Work That Body" from WDFFIL and your left with soft focus pop mush. What could and should have been a highlight on the album, her rendition of "Endless Love" is all over the place, endorsing the fact she needed a strong producer at the helm. For me these two albums are like night and day.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 05-21-2016, 05:36 AM

a 'hit' becomes big thanks to the record label 'working' the record...or not... the promotion people going into overdrive..or not...in a better world a record would be a hit based on how good it is.....but even that is based on 'opinion' and the ear of the beholder

**Bluebrock** · 05-21-2016, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Ollie9

I think Diana's vocals on the "diana" album are some of the strongest of her career, regardless of the songs. She really sounds totally committed to what she is singing, and like on "The Boss" she was making a statement of independence which is reflected in her tight, attacking vocal performances. For the first time in quite a while she was hip.
Take away "Mirror Mirror and "Work That Body" from WDFFIL and your left with soft focus pop mush. What could and should have been a highlight on the album, her rendition of "Endless Love" is all over the place, endorsing the fact she needed a strong producer at the helm. For me these two albums are like night and day.

I agree with you Ollie. I think Diana sounded committed on the "Diana" album. I think the tension in the studio perhaps helped. Nile and Bernard were directing her to do things in a certain way whilst she was equally determined to do it her way. She was at her vocal peak having come off a project "the boss" where Nick and Val demanded a lot from her which she delivered and then some. A lot of good work was undone with "wdffil". Sure it was a pleasant enough listen but her production skills were not good enough on such an important project. It went from bad to worse with the next pair of albums, and lets just say that Diana herself bemoaned her choices when we spoke a few years later. I shall leave it at that.

**Bluebrock** · 05-21-2016, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by thommg

I'm quite surprised that He Lives In You was not a single. It's from The Lion King and had great potential as a hit. It was one of the only songs from EDIAND that I actually wanted to hear more than once. I appreciate the album a bit more now but when it was released it was just so filled with heartbreak I couldn't listen to it.

I so agree with you about "hliy". It had hit single written all over it if promoted correctly. It would have been a UK single had fate not intervened but this remains one of my biggest regrets.

**daviddh** · 05-21-2016, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Albator

Don't you think it's because of the "diana" album success ... A real big big hit, another top 5 hit followed by her biggest hit "Endless love". Usually the next project is helped by the previous one.

"WDFFIL" is a good song and nicely produced, like "rescue me".

agreed, it followed Diana ,which as we know ,was huge. I think everyone expected more after such a great album. I did think it was a let down and after being in the business for 20 plus years I expected better honestly. but it was ok.there were a few good songs,i liked Mirror Mirror .

**daviddh** · 05-21-2016, 11:10 AM

Bluebrock, it seems Diana has had many offers in the last few years, to work with Steve Perry , Niles Rogers and the show Empire. but she seems to turn everthing and everyone down.

**thommg** · 05-21-2016, 11:10 AM

I was working in dinner theatre when Why Do Fools Fall IN Love was released. We loved it there and used to dance and sing to it after we did our shows and were relaxing. It had a great retro feel to it and I thought it was pretty cool to go from the Diana album to something that was more pop. I liked the album as a whole but I didn't love it. Still, I expected the second album to be spectacular. Unfortunately, Silk Electric was not. The song on that album that I feel "got away" was Love Lies. I still add that song to my Diana playlists.

**daviddh** · 05-21-2016, 11:22 AM

ok hopefully I wont offend anyone but I Love You was also not my favorite but there were some good tracks. I liked WHAT ABOUT LOVE , LOVELY DAY , but over all I was disappointed. I thought I WANT YOU would have fit on DR76 album in place of Kiss Me Now. I thought it sounded a bit off.
again, after being in the business for so many years, I don't understand why she continues to release these MOR type albums.
Thommg, Love Lies was a good track. I liked Who as well

**Bluebrock** · 05-21-2016, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by daviddh

ok hopefully I wont offend anyone but I Love You was also not my favorite but there were some good tracks. I liked WHAT ABOUT LOVE , LOVELY DAY , but over all I was disappointed. I thought I WANT YOU would have fit on DR76 album in place of Kiss Me Now. I thought it sounded a bit off.
again, after being in the business for so many years, I don't understand why she continues to release these MOR type albums.
Thommg, Love Lies was a good track. I liked Who as well

I didn't care for "i love you" either. Not sure what made Diana record this when she had far better offers on the table. She was not at her best privately so we can draw our own conclusions.

**Bluebrock** · 05-21-2016, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by daviddh

Bluebrock, it seems Diana has had many offers in the last few years, to work with Steve Perry , Niles Rogers and the show Empire. but she seems to turn everthing and everyone down.

I am told that she may appear in season 3 of "empire" for a couple of episodes. Personally i hope she doesn't. It is by no means a bad programme but the acting is generally 2nd rate and i can only see it going downhill from here. If she did appear she will hopefully record some new music for the soundtrack so all would not be lost.If she did accept it would give her a huge publicity boost but at this point in her life i don't believe she wants this. I really don't.
As you say she turns down offers on a daily basis. She is in Cannes because she wants to be there, but she will not accept any offers until she feels 100% comfortable about it.

**daviddh** · 05-21-2016, 12:15 PM

not sure how I feel about it. I remember when Cher appeared on Will and Grace , but it worked and it was funny. as long as it works for her I am for it.i also heard she may appear on her daughter Traceys show Blackish.
I wish she could just record an album with a good producer and have a home run. no more fluff

**daviddh** · 05-21-2016, 12:22 PM

Bluebrock, I also heard she recorded an album for RCA of standards but they rejected it.do you have any info on this project

**Bluebrock** · 05-21-2016, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by daviddh

Bluebrock, I also heard she recorded an album for RCA of standards but they rejected it.do you have any info on this project

Yes she did. In 1985. She recorded it just prior to "eaten Alive". We did discuss it in an earlier post on this 9 page thread!! Both parties ended up rejecting it after the other party approved it. Confused? You will be.

**daviddh** · 05-21-2016, 04:31 PM

sorry I missed it somehow?

**Bluebrock** · 05-22-2016, 02:58 AM

Originally Posted by daviddh

sorry I missed it somehow?

Sorry david! I was sure we had discussed it earlier. Just a quick re-cap. She recorded an album of jazz and swing standards much in the vein of the great American songbook series that Rod Stewart was to have much success with later. She got the idea from Natalie Cole who had enjoyed great success with her own album of her Father's classics. I believe "over the rainbow" was one of the tracks laid down along with songs associated with Sinatra, Ella, Nina, Tony Bennett and Bobby Darin. Diana then decided to put a hold on the album despite RCA's willingness to release it. She later changed her mind as did RCA who decided to reject it when Diana re-presented it to them. By this time "eaten alive" was in the can so the project was abandoned. Hope this helps.

**Albator** · 05-22-2016, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by Bluebrock

Sorry david! I was sure we had discussed it earlier. Just a quick re-cap. She recorded an album of jazz and swing standards much in the vein of the great American songbook series that Rod Stewart was to have much success with later. She got the idea from Natalie Cole who had enjoyed great success with her own album of her Father's classics. I believe "over the rainbow" was one of the tracks laid down along with songs associated with Sinatra, Ella, Nina, Tony Bennett and Bobby Darin. Diana then decided to put a hold on the album despite RCA's willingness to release it. She later changed her mind as did RCA who decided to reject it when Diana re-presented it to them. By this time "eaten alive" was in the can so the project was abandoned. Hope this helps.

Don't you think it was more connected to the fact that Streisand was recording or had just realized her "Broadway album". She had a lot of difficulties to convince Columbia to go ahead with this project. Also at that time Linda Rondstadt did a few standards LP and they did very well on the charts.

**Bluebrock** · 05-22-2016, 04:18 AM

Originally Posted by Albator

Don't you think it was more connected to the fact that Streisand was recording or had just realized her "Broadway album". She had a lot of difficulties to convince Columbia to go ahead with this project. Also at that time Linda Rondstadt did a few standards LP and they did very well on the charts.

Quite possibly Albator. There could have been numerous factors but Streisand's Broadway album was released a few years prior To Natalie's and Diana didn't especially want to copy Streisand with Broadway tunes but instead concentrate more on jazz and swing standards.

**Albator** · 05-22-2016, 04:45 AM

Sure, but I think the approach is the same. Jazz is to Diana what Broadway is to Barbra. A way to escape the dictatorship of pop hit parade with an ambitious and risky project which marks more an artistic than commercial approach.
When it works, the credibility of the artist is strengthened. Streisand has saved her skin because the press reveled in his failed pop album / rock "emotion". After that she became critic proof and she did what she wanted to do.
For Diana the purpose would have been to recreate the magic of "lady sings the blues".

**daviddh** · 05-22-2016, 10:32 AM

I always thought Diana should have recorded a standards album. i saw a clip on you tube where she performed with the tenors and I think she handled it well. at first I rejected the idea but then I saw Diana sing New York new York and she nailed it. I was surprised but then again not. I think when Diana is challenged she is able to rise up to the task as long as she is not producing.

**daviddh** · 05-22-2016, 10:41 AM

since Diana is not recording new material I do think this would be a good idea to look into some of these unreleased projects.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 05-22-2016, 10:48 AM

as to standards, she is superb on "Supremes Sing Rogers & Hart", which was a standards album before such a thing was fashionable for a pop recording artist to attempt..

**daviddh** · 05-22-2016, 11:20 AM

Jimi, one of my favorite supremes albums.love the song Manhatten

**Bluebrock** · 05-22-2016, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by daviddh

greed Jimi, one of my favorite supremes albums.love the song Manhatten

Me too david, and also "blue room".

**daviddh** · 05-22-2016, 02:13 PM

yes Blue Moon my other favorite track,along with Mountain Greenery. me thinks we have good taste
I wonder who produced the standard album in 1985.

**Bluebrock** · 05-22-2016, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by daviddh

yes Blue Moon my other favorite track,along with Mountain Greenery. me thinks we have good taste
I wonder who produced the standard album in 1985.

Sadly i think she did some of it herself with Daryl Hall on other songs. Not sure who else was involved.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 05-22-2016, 03:44 PM

is 'greed' the latest in/ slang word for something I don't know about?...lol

**Bluebrock** · 05-22-2016, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

is 'greed' the latest in/ slang word for something I don't know about?...lol

I am equally in the dark Jimi!!!!

**Jimi LaLumia** · 05-22-2016, 07:50 PM

I just realized you probably missed hitting the 'a' key for 'agreed', so never mind...lol

**daviddh** · 05-23-2016, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia

is 'greed' the latest in/ slang word for something I don't know about?...lol

sorry for my misspelling

**Albator** · 05-23-2016, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Bluebrock

Sadly i think she did some of it herself with Daryl Hall on other songs. Not sure who else was involved.

Daryl Hall produced standards songs for her? I've always wondered how they meet or why did he produce a song for her. A very good song indeed, with an incredible vocal.
The trouble was that she couldn't sang it live in the same key so the song wasn't that great on stage.

**Jimi LaLumia** · 05-23-2016, 08:40 AM

they were both signed to RCA at the time; Hall & Oates also worked with David Ruffin & eddie Kendricks back then as well..Hall & Oates actually somehow had hits while signed to RCA, but that was thanks to the promotional skills of Tommy Mottola

**Albator** · 05-23-2016, 12:58 PM

Hall & Oates were never famous in France but they had two or three hits. They were much bigger in Japan.

I really appreciate the "Swept away" production, but I hate the club mix. The guitar solo is masterful .

**Bluebrock** · 05-23-2016, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by Albator

Daryl Hall produced standards songs for her? I've always wondered how they meet or why did he produce a song for her. A very good song indeed, with an incredible vocal.
The trouble was that she couldn't sang it live in the same key so the song wasn't that great on stage.

The recordings [[or most of them) took place in London. Diana was spending most of her time over here with her future husband. She was very happy at this time and got along famously with Daryl Hall who is an incredibly likeable and knowledgable guy when it comes to soul music. I was a fan prior to this but an even bigger one afterwards.

**Bluebrock** · 05-23-2016, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bluebrock

The recordings [[or most of them) took place in London. Diana was spending most of her time over here with her future husband. She was very happy at this time and got along famously with Daryl Hall who is an incredibly likeable and knowledgable guy when it comes to soul music. I was a fan prior to this but an even bigger one afterwards.

I forgot to mention i was working with Spandau Ballet at this time and it was the first time i ever saw Diana in the flesh [[except for concerts). I was mesmerised by her even though she barely spoke to me at this time, but Daryl was a total joy. Little did i know that just few short years later i would be working directly with Diana and indeed Daryl. I have much to thank Spandau Ballet for. This much is true!!!