Wrong Lead Single - Ross lps

[jobeterob]

The Live in Japan album isn't high up any fans list of good quality Ross albums.

[daviddh]

Live In Japan...?s this the Greatest Hits Live or another Live set I am not aware of.
I do wish we had some dvds of Diana's . not sure why Streisand has released her specials on dvd and her tv specials but we have such a hard time getting Diana ross product??

[daviddh]

welcome Michael, greetings from Usa

[daviddh]

has anyone checked out AN Evening from Vegas....it is the soundtrack from the dvd special from 1980. I think it is her best concert and she is at her best vocally

[Bluebrock]

Live In Japan...?s this the Greatest Hits Live or another Live set I am not aware of.
I do wish we had some dvds of Diana's . not sure why Streisand has released her specials on dvd and her tv specials but we have such a hard time getting Diana ross product??

It was recorded on the same tour as the London and Australia shows but was recorded in Japan exclusively for the Japanese market if my memory serves me correctly. It would have been pretty much the same set list with the odd exception. I never bothered to listen to it if i am to be perfectly honest.

[Bluebrock]

Hi, I'm Michael from Sweden, and I'm new here. I've been an avid Diana Ross [[and other Motown artists) fan since I was a kid and I also ran a Diana Ross website for many, many years. Anyway, I would like to thank Bluebrock and the rest of you for a very, very interesting thread. I love the fact that the discussion is about the ARTIST Diana Ross and her music. I also think her RCA/EMI years has been sadly overlooked or even ignored for far too long. The discussion here clearly shows that people are interested in the entire legacy of Diana Ross, not only her [[early) Motown years.

Bluebrock, a couple of questions if I may? What are your thoughts on the Live at Wembley set [[Greatest hits live) that EMI released in '89? I love anything and everything Diana, but I never thought that this live recording made her justice. I was there and loved the show, but on record the sound is kind of flat and Diana is not in her best voice on some of the songs. Was she herself happy with this album? I know EMI used songs from this album as b-sides on future singles, which was a smart marketing strategy, I just wish the live versions sounded more exciting
I also wonder if EMI UK ever thought of releasing those Japan only songs Diana recorded for her children's book, and also the one off single, "Promise Me You'll Try"? Thanks again!

Michael -We had the option of releasing "promise me you'll try" , "that's why i call you my friend" and "when you dream" on the "voice of love" compilation, but Diana herself chose the tracklisting. Had i been in charge i would have certainly put the latter two songs on the album and excluded a couple of tracks that i thought sounded out of place on the original release, but i would have left "promise me you'll try" for another album as i didn't think it was suitable for "vol". It was considered several years later for "love and life" but got overlooked. Diana herself wasn't overly keen on the song for some reason. I thought it okay but nothing special

[florence]

I also wonder if EMI UK ever thought of releasing those Japan only songs Diana recorded for her children's book, and also the one off single, "Promise Me You'll Try"? Thanks again!

Promise Me You'll Try is one of my all time fav Diana tracks.

It didn't do very well in Japan but I've never understood why it never saw the light of day in the UK. It has a Stock Aitken Waterman feel to it and I'm convinced it could have been huge here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01x-_2GWUr4

[Jaap]

It was recorded on the same tour as the London and Australia shows but was recorded in Japan exclusively for the Japanese market if my memory serves me correctly. It would have been pretty much the same set list with the odd exception. I never bothered to listen to it if i am to be perfectly honest.

I assume you are referring to the bootleg that was released in 1994 of the 1993 world live tour, produced for the Japanese market but made in Australia [[and thus probably also recorded there). The album is credited to Dianna Ross [[with double n) and they rearranged the original order of the songs [[which is notable because they disconnected ANMHE from Theme from Mahogany):
1. If we hold on together
2. Upside down
3. Theme from Mahogany
4. When you tell me that you love me
5. Ain't no mountain high enough
6. Why do fools fall in love
7. How do you do it [[wrong title for You're gonna love it)
8. The man I love
9. Baby love
10. Stop in the name of love
11. You can't hurry love
12. You keep me hanging on
13 Chain reaction
14. I cried for you
15. The force behind the power
16. Blame in on the sun
17. Reach out and touch
18. Mirror mirror
19. Change of heart
20. Endless love

[Bluebrock]

Promise Me You'll Try is one of my all time fav Diana tracks.

It didn't do very well in Japan but I've never understood why it never saw the light of day in the UK. It has a Stock Aitken Waterman feel to it and I'm convinced it could have been huge here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01x-_2GWUr4

I think the SAW connection was part of the problem Florence.

[Jaap]

Promise Me You'll Try is one of my all time fav Diana tracks.

It didn't do very well in Japan but I've never understood why it never saw the light of day in the UK. It has a Stock Aitken Waterman feel to it and I'm convinced it could have been huge here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01x-_2GWUr4

I never thought I would ever say this, but I prefer the Jenifer Lopez version over the one by Diana Ross. I'm not a big fan of this song, but it works much better as a ballad than an uptempo track. The ballad version also fits the other Japan-only songs that Ross has done.

[Michael]

Michael -We had the option of releasing "promise me you'll try" , "that's why i call you my friend" and "when you dream" on the "voice of love" compilation, but Diana herself chose the tracklisting. Had i been in charge i would have certainly put the latter two songs on the album and excluded a couple of tracks that i thought sounded out of place on the original release, but i would have left "promise me you'll try" for another album as i didn't think it was suitable for "vol". It was considered several years later for "love and life" but got overlooked. Diana herself wasn't overly keen on the song for some reason. I thought it okay but nothing special

I agree with you that "That's why I call you my friend" and "When you dream" would have been a perfect match for "VOL". Perhaps instead of "So Close" and "I Am Me". "Promise" was a nice track, I like it, but it was not strong enough to be a single in my opinion. So I agree with you on that, too

[Michael]

welcome Michael, greetings from Usa

Thank you David!

[daviddh]

I like Promise Me You'll Try track, have to pull it out and give a listen but I made my own playlist for VOL and included it.
I thought the song I Hear The Voice Of Love was a bit weak. I am not that familiar with the songs such as That's Why I call You My Friend.
I do have that live album where her name is spelled incorrectly.i listened to it once and that was enough. I think one song stood out for me ,..Blame It On The Sun

[Bluebrock]

I agree with you that "That's why I call you my friend" and "When you dream" would have been a perfect match for "VOL". Perhaps instead of "So Close" and "I Am Me". "Promise" was a nice track, I like it, but it was not strong enough to be a single in my opinion. So I agree with you on that, too

totally agree with you on all the above Michael.

[Bluebrock]

I never thought I would ever say this, but I prefer the Jenifer Lopez version over the one by Diana Ross. I'm not a big fan of this song, but it works much better as a ballad than an uptempo track. The ballad version also fits the other Japan-only songs that Ross has done.

Didn't know Jennifer Lopez recorded the song, but i know before i hear it that i will not like it. I have my own issues with that woman but this is not the correct forum for my experiences of her, but thank you for pointing that out to me. I may summon up the courage to listen to it one day if i can overcome some terrible nightmare that i thought was behind me.

[daviddh]

I wish there was a cd with all the Diana rarities such as Going Back, Promise Me You 'll Try, and other rare tracks instead of having to look for all these on various cd. I am working on a playlist with some of these gems.

[Bluebrock]

I wish there was a cd with all the Diana rarities such as Going Back, Promise Me You 'll Try, and other rare tracks instead of having to look for all these on various cd. I am working on a playlist with some of these gems.

Be sure to send me a copy when you compile it!

[daviddh]

You got it. I just remembered, a song Diana recorded You've Made Me So Very Happy .it came out on a CD after berry Gordy's book. any other gems I may be forgetting

[daviddh]

I don't think I have the children's book songs.I may....any other gems that I am forgetting

[daviddh]

Just thinking of a song called Overjoyed on her Christmas CD.have to find it and listen but I recall really liking it.since it was on that CD I haven't listened to it in a while. Wish Diana recorded Ribbon in the Sky

[daviddh]

OMG. To this day, don't know how this song was not a massive hit. Funky groove with enough MOR flavor for radio. That silky voice crescendoing in her uniquely Ross exuberance. I still listen to it all the time: "you were bringing me the sun AND the moon!"

agree, my favorite song on the album along with Never Say I Don't Love You. both songs produced by Greg Wright. he should have produced the entire album. now they found more songs in the vaults from this era. if only we could get the expanded version

[thommg]

I wish there was a cd with all the Diana rarities such as Going Back, Promise Me You 'll Try, and other rare tracks instead of having to look for all these on various cd. I am working on a playlist with some of these gems.

I'm with Bluebrock, daviddh. Please post the list once you've finished compiling it. I would love to create my own "album" of the lost songs.

[daviddh]

I'm with Bluebrock, daviddh. Please post the list once you've finished compiling it. I would love to create my own "album" of the lost songs.

I started with what I am calling my Voice O f Love expanded with songs from The Force, now ...that I am thinking about it ,I remember her box set had some new songs as well.
PROMISE ME YOU'LL TRY
I HEAR THE VOICE OF LOVE
YOU ARE NOT ALONE
YOUVE MADE ME SO VERY HAPPY
YOU AND I
MAKE EVERY MOMENT COUNT
time to pull out all the cds and do more research.

[florence]

YOU ARE NOT ALONE

Love Diana's version of this even more than MJ's.

If only he'd given her this rather than the frankly awful Eaten Alive or tedious Muscles!

[Bluebrock]

Love Diana's version of this even more than MJ's.

If only he'd given her this rather than the frankly awful Eaten Alive or tedious Muscles!

R.Kelly wrote "yana" for Michael Jackson. Diana loved the song and wanted R.Kelly to write and produce a song for her. Talks ensured but came to nothing and the song intended as a duet between Diana and R.Kelly was given to Celine Dion who recorded it for her Christmas album.

[daviddh]

dang,....I don't have the Forever Diana on cd, I have cassettes, and it's not on ITunes. have to find these tracks

[sansradio]

dang,....I don't have the Forever Diana on cd, I have cassettes, and it's not on ITunes. have to find these tracks

daviddh, do you live in the NYC area? If so, I saw this CD set at Book-Off this weekend for $15!

[daviddh]

no but thanks for the tip sansradio, I am off today and will look around. I remember really not enjoying the newer tracks in this collection but I did want to put together a collection of Diana rare tracks . I did find my Love N Life cd which contains the song Going Back

[daviddh]

No, the box set was Diana's baby. She chose the tracks and she oversaw the packaging, photos etc. We had no input on that one.
it's hard for me to say is indeed a little gem. Once again it is Diana's fault that Luther did not produce a full album on her. He cherished this project , sent her demos, wined and dined her until she relented and they went into the studio and cut 4 tracks so i am told. Of the missing 3 one is a reworking of an old motown classic whilst the other 2 are Vandross/Marcus Miller originals of which one is a duet. I haven't heard these songs and i am not even 100% convinced they actually exist but i do know that Diana and Luther spent a week in a London studio in 1986. I was told this by one of her aides. Diana eventually decided on "ihfmts" and dumped the other 3. I would love to hear these tunes but Diana has the key to this vault which also contains many other discarded tracks from the RCA years.

I think this could be a good project for Diana to take on if she could open the vault and revisit the RCA era and pull together a collection of songs for a new cd and perhaps write the liner notes. I think there could be some hidden gems. just allow someone to produce the tracks

[Bluebrock]

I think this could be a good project for Diana to take on if she could open the vault and revisit the RCA era and pull together a collection of songs for a new cd and perhaps write the liner notes. I think there could be some hidden gems. just allow someone to produce the tracks

It is very frustrating to think how many top producers/songwriters could and would have worked with her during this era. Quincy Jones should have produced the debut album, Michael Jackson could have produced a few more for her. He offered her a beautiful song called "your the one" which she turned down, so he produced it on Jennifer Holliday who did a wonderful job on it. Lionel Richie did do at least one more tune with her that remains in the vaults along with the alleged Luther tracks. There are more than those too. Diana was quite simply too controlling and her career suffered accordingly.

[daviddh]

I suppose,[[thinking out loud) Diana was tired of being controlled my men, and wanted to stand on her own, and really went to far with it. I can see her point around 1981 after being at Motown for twenty years but ...I would think ,after all the years in the business, she would KNOW a good song and or producer and work with them. I think she may have gone overboard with it. I was recently reading about Lucille Ball and how she dealt with things after her divorce from Desi and they basically said the same. she didn't know how to handle it because Lucy was so used to Desi making the decisions all the time and wasn't always pleasant. I had to laugh when one celebrity,[[ who was appearing on her show at the time), snapped back at Lucy and said "you got the job already" .
I think the same thing happened with Diana. she was tired of being over controlled by BG . I wonder maybe if that is how BG handled her and maybe it is all she knew.?
I think she may have calmed down since then but then wonder if, why, she doesn't have a recording contract right now.

[daviddh]

Blue, I am fascinated about your work with Diana , how long did you work with her. do you ever have communication with her now. are you still involved in the music business

[lakedistrictlad1]

.....but then wonder if, why, she doesn't have a recording contract right now.

I know nothing about the music biz, but do artists with vast wealth need a contract to release a record these days?

I would have thought an artist with enough money could release something independently.

Surely if Diana really wanted to make a record she could just go ahead and make her own?

[Bluebrock]

I know nothing about the music biz, but do artists with vast wealth need a contract to release a record these days?

I would have thought an artist with enough money could release something independently.

Surely if Diana really wanted to make a record she could just go ahead and make her own?

Yes she could if she really wanted to but she appears to be happy enough with her life as it is. I would not rule out one final final album as she has been in the studio occasionally over the past few years, but I am not sure just how many songs she has laid down.

[Bluebrock]

Blue, I am fascinated about your work with Diana , how long did you work with her. do you ever have communication with her now. are you still involved in the music business

I first met her in 1988 and worked regularly with her until 2001. Yes I am still in touch occasionally. She sent me cards and gifts when my two youngest children were born and also when my wife past away. She is not at all like she is conceived to be in public. She is a nice lady with a kind heart.

[daviddh]

I first met her in 1988 and worked regularly with her until 2001. Yes I am still in touch occasionally. She sent me cards and gifts when my two youngest children were born and also when my wife past away. She is not at all like she is conceived to be in public. She is a nice lady with a kind heart.

thank you for sharing your thoughts of Diana. I think she has got a bad rap.
my deepest sympathies on the loss of your wife.
thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

[Albator]

Talking about having "hit singles" in the 80's, and probably all period, and also when you are an entertainer, you need a strong management.

If I look at ladies I like the most and I know best, Olivia, Donna, Barbra, Diana ... All were at the top of their game in 1980 and all started to manage themselves. Barbra is a different story, but as a pop star she was directed and pushed to record disco stuff and all.

They all ended their "hit maker" career by 1985.
- Olivia stopped touring and promoted a sexy LP, being pregnant.
- Donna ended her sexy image and talked about religious stuff
- Barbra went from Guilty to Yentl an old fashioned musical about Yeshiva
- Miss Ross ... we're all trying to analyse why the hits stopped in the USA. Is it Mary's book, is it because of the changing time, is it because the music wasn't first rate, is it because of RCA, is it because of her ego ? Maybe a little bit of all.

[Jaap]

- Miss Ross ... we're all trying to analyse why the hits stopped in the USA. Is it Mary's book, is it because of the changing time, is it because the music wasn't first rate, is it because of RCA, is it because of her ego ? Maybe a little bit of all.

And don't rule out the rise of Whitney Houston. Although vocally Ross and Houston are quite different, stylistically -- both music genre and visual "star image" -- they were quite similar in the 1980s. It may be coincidental, but it is telling that Ross had her final US top 10 single in 1985 [[Missing You) just a few months before Houston started reaching the top of the charts one song after another.

[Ollie9]

As regards the 80's, most fans that i have spoken to were patiently waiting for another "Ross 76", "The Boss" or "diana" album that never happened. I almost wish "Mirror Mirror had flopped and prompted her to move back to the style of music that made her famous in the first place. For me she remained far to long in the soft rock camp. Some fans might argue she needed to move on with her music, but overall WDFFIL sounds musically far more dated than any of the three previous mentioned albums

[Bluebrock]

Talking about having "hit singles" in the 80's, and probably all period, and also when you are an entertainer, you need a strong management.

If I look at ladies I like the most and I know best, Olivia, Donna, Barbra, Diana ... All were at the top of their game in 1980 and all started to manage themselves. Barbra is a different story, but as a pop star she was directed and pushed to record disco stuff and all.

They all ended their "hit maker" career by 1985.
- Olivia stopped touring and promoted a sexy LP, being pregnant.
- Donna ended her sexy image and talked about religious stuff
- Barbra went from Guilty to Yentl an old fashioned musical about Yeshiva
- Miss Ross ... we're all trying to analyse why the hits stopped in the USA. Is it Mary's book, is it because of the changing time, is it because the music wasn't first rate, is it because of RCA, is it because of her ego ? Maybe a little bit of all.

I would say a little bit of all three. Diana's ego threatened to spiral out of control during this period which is never a good thing, but much of her music during this period was quite simply not good enough. RCA and Diana began to lose faith in one another, and of course Mary's book was a bad move for everyone except Mary's bank balance, but to be fair to her she would never have got the deal in the first place without the promise of juicy revelations about Diana.

[Albator]

I would say a little bit of all three. Diana's ego threatened to spiral out of control during this period which is never a good thing, but much of her music during this period was quite simply not good enough. RCA and Diana began to lose faith in one another, and of course Mary's book was a bad move for everyone except Mary's bank balance, but to be fair to her she would never have got the deal in the first place without the promise of juicy revelations about Diana.

I agree but I also think the "veteran" factor plays its role. As Cher said "there is a moment people don't want to hear about you, no matter what you do or how good you are, they don't".

[Jimi LaLumia]

also pushing the writer Michael Masser away, which I believe Ross did after she left Motown, got Houston all those great hit ballads that would have belonged to Ross, in particular, "Where Do Broken Hearts Go" I could so hear Ross bringing to the Top Ten... I think losing Masser was her biggest mistake.. and Mary's book magnified Ross' image to a bigger than life creature which I loved, none of itt bothered me at all, Ru Paul echoed the same sentiment; it was lousy records [[which I stopped buying by Eaten Alive) and ridiculous imaging that did Ross in in the 80's..

[reese]

I agree but I also think the "veteran" factor plays its role. As Cher said "there is a moment people don't want to hear about you, no matter what you do or how good you are, they don't".

I would agree.

Diana had a good run in the USA, basicially 20 or so years of chart success before things starting winding down. But her sales had started to slide as early as 1982 with the awful choice of SO CLOSE as a single. Her 1983 releases didn't do that much better. I think the publicity from the Central Park concert carried her through that year, but she bounced back in 1984 with the singles from SWEPT AWAY.

After that, EATEN ALIVE came and went, and then she got married and started concentrating on a second family. Mary's book certainly didn't help, especially since it came from someone whom many people think would have been a valid source. She promoted the hell out of it and it inspired other books like CALL HER MISS ROSS and BERRY, ME, and MOTOWN, all of which fed into the "Miss Ross" syndrome. All the while, Diana was basicially quiet and raising her children. By the time she came back on the scene, while she still had some success with the R&B and dance markets, the pop audience had moved on.

I think it also bears mentioning that many of Diana's peers stopped having huge hit records in the USA during the mid-to-late 80s as well. Both Dionne and Gladys had their last big hits in 1987. Tina was able to pull off another hit with THE BEST in 1989, but didn't have another major hit until 1993. Only Aretha seemed to be able to maintain a strong chart presence through the 90s. But none of them had to deal with the public image that Diana did.

[Bluebrock]

also pushing the writer Michael Masser away, which I believe Ross did after she left Motown, got Houston all those great hit ballads that would have belonged to Ross, in particular, "Where Do Broken Hearts Go" I could so hear Ross bringing to the Top Ten... I think losing Masser was her biggest mistake.. and Mary's book magnified Ross' image to a bigger than life creature which I loved, none of itt bothered me at all, Ru Paul echoed the same sentiment; it was lousy records [[which I stopped buying by Eaten Alive) and ridiculous imaging that did Ross in in the 80's..

I agree with much of what you say Jimi. Michael Masser wanted to work with Diana in the early 80's but she dismissed him and instead recorded the mediocre "ross83" which as we all know was not exactly a resounding success. It is all too easy to look back with the benefit of hindsight but Diana really did not do herself any favours during this period and she lacked a calming influence to discuss career decisions rationally. Thankfully she calmed down in the 90's and was willing to put her faith in people who really did have her best career interests at heart.

[Jimi LaLumia]

at which point was too late... love this thread and that you're here, Bluebrock..

[Albator]

I love so much her reddish Ross LP, that I don't understand people don't like it LOL
The real disaster is "WDFFIL". It's a disaster because it was a success coming after "diana". To me she payed the price after this one. "Silk" didn't help.
She did a lot of efforts to find the right material with "swept" but the result is frustrating. She tried every imaginable directions, so if you like one ... you just have one or two. Great ballads "à la Motown", Missing you, Forever young . Sexy Hot, "telephone", hype 80's material "swept away", golden syrup "All of you" and the rest

Many loving fans call this one "creative" while I think she only tried hard to find the "hit".

Anyway, I like the RCA years, with it's best and it's worst.

[Bluebrock]

at which point was too late... love this thread and that you're here, Bluebrock..

Thank you Jimi. Your comments are very much appreciated.

[Bluebrock]

I love so much her reddish Ross LP, that I don't understand people don't like it LOL
The real disaster is "WDFFIL". It's a disaster because it was a success coming after "diana". To me she payed the price after this one. "Silk" didn't help.
She did a lot of efforts to find the right material with "swept" but the result is frustrating. She tried every imaginable directions, so if you like one ... you just have one or two. Great ballads "à la Motown", Missing you, Forever young . Sexy Hot, "telephone", hype 80's material "swept away", golden syrup "All of you" and the rest

Many loving fans call this one "creative" while I think she only tried hard to find the "hit".

Anyway, I like the RCA years, with it's best and it's worst.

Each to their own Albator. It is good that you can appreciate "ross83". It's not for me but if others like it then it wasn't a complete waste of effort by Diana.
I agree "wdffil" was far from great. She was riding the crest of a wave after the chic album and could have put out virtually anything and it would have been a success. At this point she thought she could do no wrong and i don't think she would have listened to any well meaning advice.
I liked "sa". It was her 1st rca effort that i actually rated but i agree it was a "varied" effort and Diana herself was quite pleased with it.

[sup_fan]

again - what a fun ongoing discussion!!

I find it interesting that so many people think WDFFIL was a weak or poor follow up to diana. while I like diana it's hardly her most compelling artistic accomplishment. It is certainly a very commercial effort and a cohesive set with 1 point of view. it's not a patchwork, hodge podge. but her vocals, for the most part, are average. and just a collection of 8 songs with a unified production. frankly diana was a WEAK follow up, artistically, to The Boss. that too was a collection of 8 songs with a unified production POV. but damn! she's singing the hell out of that album. there's also a strong artistic statement being made. the songs all reflect a sense of independence and control. as Randy stated, even the cover graphics presented her as a strong, 80's woman.

[Albator]

again - what a fun ongoing discussion!!

I find it interesting that so many people think WDFFIL was a weak or poor follow up to diana. while I like diana it's hardly her most compelling artistic accomplishment. It is certainly a very commercial effort and a cohesive set with 1 point of view. it's not a patchwork, hodge podge. but her vocals, for the most part, are average. and just a collection of 8 songs with a unified production. frankly diana was a WEAK follow up, artistically, to The Boss. that too was a collection of 8 songs with a unified production POV. but damn! she's singing the hell out of that album. there's also a strong artistic statement being made. the songs all reflect a sense of independence and control. as Randy stated, even the cover graphics presented her as a strong, 80's woman.

Yes that's the point ! She was lazy with her voice, except for Endless Love. I like "Mirror mirror" but the Sembello demo had a better more musical feeling.

And now that it's a long time ago and we're all adult , I can say I think she was lazy during her CP second show , she hardly sang a song from start to finish. It would have been very hard to issue a live LP from the performance.