Wrong Lead Single - Ross lps

[gba]

[QUOTE=Bluebrock;347189]

Not able to say here. As regards acting she is still being courted by the producers of Empire for a guest stint

I've been catching up with all of your posts the past couple of weeks. Thanks for providing such insight. It's really fascinating to hear from someone who was really there

[daviddh]

I have also not listened to this C's in years. I did remember being grateful at the time as Motown USA seemed to no longer care about DR.. it was frustrating for us USA fans. I had to special order this. There was a HBO special at the time...there were a few good moments but by this time the show was old....same old set....except the new WO tracks. I did like Paradise however.one of the few dongs I did like from this LP.the only other song I liked was Keep On Dancing

[Albator]

Totally agree, and to be honest, also about Rod Stewart's American Songbook albums. They may sell well, but they are very bland... kind of the fast food of music. So I'm happy she didn't take the Clive route. Would be nice she would listen to Pharrell though... and I'm sure Alicia Keys would love to work with her. She should just do a low-key album, based on the love of the music, rather than the amounts to be sold -- she no longer needs that.

you are so right ... I can't understand why they did so well. Barry Manilow or Johnny Mathis are more confortable with this kind of project.
On the duet, Rod Stewart recorded with Diana the difference of quality when it comes to interpretive skill, is so obvious, it's an embarrassment.
In favor of Diana, of course

[Ollie9]

I agree that the Rod Stewart American Songbook albums are bland, but i can also understand why they sold in bucketloads to the general public at large.
One thing of note about Diana and Rod's duet together is that the production is generally much better then anything on Diana's "I Love You" album. Her voice sounds deliciously crisp and creamy and she really gets into the song.. As the duet and Diana's album were recorded not to far apart.......... WHAT ON EARTH HAPPENED in the interim

[Jaap]

I agree that the Rod Stewart American Songbook albums are bland, but i can also understand why they sold in bucketloads to the general public at large.
One thing of note about Diana and Rod's duet together is that the production is generally much better then anything on Diana's "I Love You" album. Her voice sounds deliciously crisp and creamy and she really gets into the song.. As the duet and Diana's album were recorded not to far apart.......... WHAT ON EARTH HAPPENED in the interim

Although I like Ross's voice on the Rod Stewart duet, I still find it as bland as the other American songbook songs by Rod Stewart -- but I agree, it's a better production than most of I Love You -- surprisingly, as some of the songs were done by the same producer Steve Tyrell [[most by Peter Asher). The bottom line, I think, is that these albums are made indeed to sell bucketloads, rather than -- I tend to think -- a genuine love of the music. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with wanting to sell a lot of records [[that's how Motown got big in the first place), but to make it work, it needs some love. In the case of "I Love You," there clearly is some "love" in the voice of Ross, but to me not enough to get beyond the blandness of the production.

[daviddh]

I like DR on I've Got A Crush On You. but ,sorry ,I am not a fan of Rods. I think Diana sounded good here and I wish this type of sounding cd would have been the case. again, I do think Diana could have done a songbook style album, and it would have done well based on the above mentioned track. as a matter of fact I was hoping that's what ILY was going to be instead of what we actually got.

[daviddh]

I don't remember Miss Ross singing with Pavarotti. Can you provide a link? I know she sang with Carreras and Domingo several times.

sanradio,...you could be right. I may have got the names mixed up. but I did see it on youtube

[detmotownguy]

Although I like Ross's voice on the Rod Stewart duet, I still find it as bland as the other American songbook songs by Rod Stewart -- but I agree, it's a better production than most of I Love You -- surprisingly, as some of the songs were done by the same producer Steve Tyrell [[most by Peter Asher). The bottom line, I think, is that these albums are made indeed to sell bucketloads, rather than -- I tend to think -- a genuine love of the music. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with wanting to sell a lot of records [[that's how Motown got big in the first place), but to make it work, it needs some love. In the case of "I Love You," there clearly is some "love" in the voice of Ross, but to me not enough to get beyond the blandness of the production.

I only listened to the I Love You CD once. Are saying it is a combination of both bland voice and production? thks

[Ollie9]

sanradio,...you could be right. I may have got the names mixed up. but I did see it on youtube

I think what you may have seen david was a photo of Diana with Pavarotti on one side and Frank Sinatra on the other. I remember an article referred to them as the New Supremes or such like. I don't believe they ever actually performed together.

[motownlover1964]

This has been a very interesting thread. I appreciate reading all the posts as it's been very educational about some of her releases; those she believed in and loved and others that she wasn't keen on at all. I had lost interest in her but have now revisited some of the releases that I didn't care for and surprisingly found those to be pretty good many years later. The biggest surprise was "Last Time I Saw Him" as I listened to it a few times back in 1973 and shelved it but bought the deluxe edition and was very pleasantly surprised and entertained. Guess we all change as time goes on.

[jobeterob]

I think Last Time I Saw Him, the album, has aged quite well.

[sup_fan]

yes it is interesting to see what you warm up to over time and what you don't. I've not paid much attention at all to her RCA material until recently. while still hardly my favorite Ross lps, I've started to enjoy them more. Ross 83 in particular. Eaten Alive lp still just does nothing for me as I find the natural nasality of Ross' voice so much in conflict with the Gibb falsetto. I think it's a horrid combination and IMO among the worst things she's recorded. I think the musical tracks and the lyric to the songs are quite good. but that combination and the production style of her breathy vocals is maddening.

So since this thread has been so engaging - let's keep it rolling.

So if you were on a desert island, what 2 singles and studio lps of Ross's would you take? and no cheaping lol. no Greatest Hits or Anthologies

The Boss lp
Diana 80 lp
Ain't No Mountain single
Last Time I Saw Him single

[jobeterob]

Lady Sings the Blues
Take Me Higher

Remember Me
Endless Love

[sansradio]

I'd take my iPod, which has everything!

In all seriousness, let's see:

Surrender
The Boss

"Reach Out, I'll Be There"
"Missing You"

[daviddh]

singles.....aint no mountain high enough.......touch me in the morning ....geez tough one
albums Diana ross 76 Diana ross 70

[Ollie9]

Assuming i was stranded on a desert island............
ALBUMS
Workin' Overtime - The positive vibe of the songs would keep me going.
Lady Sings The Blues - To relax to at night

SINGLES
Paradise [[remix)
If We Hold On Together - As it's a kind of comforting

[florence]

Album

The Force Behind The Power
Swept Away

Single

Remember Me
Chain Reaction

[Bluebrock]

Album

Diana Ross [[1976)
The Boss


Singles

Remember Me
Missing You

[reese]

ALBUMS:
Surrender
The Boss

SINGLES:
Ain't No Mountain High Enough
Touch Me In The Morning

[sup_fan]

such an interesting list - if we all got stranded together, in aggregate we'd just about have all her albums with us! lol

[motownlover1964]

Albums:
Take Me Higher
Diana Ross 1970

Singles:
Remember Me
Chain Reaction

[lakedistrictlad1]

[QUOTE=sup_fan;347480] the production style of her breathy vocals is maddening.

Does anybody else agree that Diana seemed to consciously change her singing style during her RCA years - to that really annoying 'breathy style' that sup-fan picked up on?

I wonder why her singing style changed so much?

Personally I found it deeply irritating. It was like she was losing her singing voice. Compare her 'RCA' voice to, say, the vocal work on her 'Surrender' album. It's like 2 different singers.

Then around the time of 'Force Behind The power' album she seemed to have learned how to sing all over again.

[reese]

[QUOTE=lakedistrictlad1;347570]

the production style of her breathy vocals is maddening.

Does anybody else agree that Diana seemed to consciously change her singing style during her RCA years - to that really annoying 'breathy style' that sup-fan picked up on?

I wonder why her singing style changed so much?

Personally I found it deeply irritating. It was like she was losing her singing voice. Compare her 'RCA' voice to, say, the vocal work on her 'Surrender' album. It's like 2 different singers.

Then around the time of 'Force Behind The power' album she seemed to have learned how to sing all over again.

I remember an interview around the time of FORCE where she said she felt she was singing better because she sang more often. I was a bit confused, as I couldn't think of a time when she wasn't singing. But maybe through all the touring, she was finding some renewed strength. Myself, I thought she had a great return to form with the SWEPT AWAY album.

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=reese;347571]

I remember an interview around the time of FORCE where she said she felt she was singing better because she sang more often. I was a bit confused, as I couldn't think of a time when she wasn't singing. But maybe through all the touring, she was finding some renewed strength. Myself, I thought she had a great return to form with the SWEPT AWAY album.

I agree. After three turgid efforts she began to hit her stride with the Swept away album. I think her vocal performances during her RCA period suffered due to poor quality songs and indifferent production. Her vocals were spot on when she had a good song to tackle. She thought her own best vocal performances were with Ashford and Simpson

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=reese;347571]

I remember an interview around the time of FORCE where she said she felt she was singing better because she sang more often. I was a bit confused, as I couldn't think of a time when she wasn't singing. But maybe through all the touring, she was finding some renewed strength. Myself, I thought she had a great return to form with the SWEPT AWAY album.

During the 80's she only sang when touring or recording , but by the 90's she happy in her personal life and she often rehearsed during the day and told me she was more confident about her vocals since the 60's.

[Ollie9]

There was a definite shift in her singing style with the release of WDFFIL. It was very laid back with Diana rarely pushing herself or sometimes appearing not in complete control of her voice.
I think her vocals on RHR&B from 87 are excellent and for me marked a return to the Diana i first fell in love with.
Even those fans who are not really into the Workin' Overtime album would have to admit she is pushing herself and singing with some conviction.
I think Diana fell back into bad habits in 94 with the release of "Making Spirits Bright", but only for one album thank goodness.
Bottom line is she needs a strong producer to push her. That is when she really shines.

[daviddh]

wonder if Diana and Rod recorded their duet together ? if they recorded the song separately there could be a whole vocal of Diana in it's entirety? .

[Bluebrock]

wonder if Diana and Rod recorded their duet together ? if they recorded the song separately there could be a whole vocal of Diana in it's entirety? .

No they didn't. Although they are aquainted with each other they recorded their vocals separately.

[JohnnyB]

There was a definite shift in her singing style with the release of WDFFIL. It was very laid back with Diana rarely pushing herself or sometimes appearing not in complete control of her voice.
I think her vocals on RHR&B from 87 are excellent and for me marked a return to the Diana i first fell in love with.
Even those fans who are not really into the Workin' Overtime album would have to admit she is pushing herself and singing with some conviction.
I think Diana fell back into bad habits in 94 with the release of "Making Spirits Bright", but only for one album thank goodness.
Bottom line is she needs a strong producer to push her. That is when she really shines.

You are so right about Diana's vocals on RHR&B. I remember being so excited about that LP, simply because of the vocals.

Regarding Diana needing a strong producer, I recall a review of the Swept Away LP in which that was illustrated. The critic wrote about the excitement and conviction he heard in Missing You, Swept Away and Telephone in comparison to It's Your Move or Rescue Me.

[Bluebrock]

There was a definite shift in her singing style with the release of WDFFIL. It was very laid back with Diana rarely pushing herself or sometimes appearing not in complete control of her voice.
I think her vocals on RHR&B from 87 are excellent and for me marked a return to the Diana i first fell in love with.
Even those fans who are not really into the Workin' Overtime album would have to admit she is pushing herself and singing with some conviction.
I think Diana fell back into bad habits in 94 with the release of "Making Spirits Bright", but only for one album thank goodness.
Bottom line is she needs a strong producer to push her. That is when she really shines.

I agree about the vocals but we shall leave WORKIN OVERTIME out of this!
She needed guidance in the studio and actually admitted this to me in1996. Naturally being the diva that she is Diana hated being ordered about in the studio [[or anywhere else for that matter), but when confronted by an equally opinionated producer the clash of ego's worked a treat, a la Ashford and Simpson, Chic, Michael Masser, Richard Perry, Lione Richie, Gibb Brothers, Luther etc etc. You get the picture.

[Ollie9]

You are so right about Diana's vocals on RHR&B. I remember being so excited about that LP, simply because of the vocals.

Regarding Diana needing a strong producer, I recall a review of the Swept Away LP in which that was illustrated. The critic wrote about the excitement and conviction he heard in Missing You, Swept Away and Telephone in comparison to It's Your Move or Rescue Me.

Me to johnnyB. It was Diana's rejuvenated vocals that made the album far better than it might have been. She sounds so alive like she is really enjoying herself singing those songs.
As regards the SA allbum i agree with the reviewer. Diana's vocals on " It's You Move" and "Rescue Me" sound safe and uninspired to my ears.

[Ollie9]

I agree about the vocals but we shall leave WORKIN OVERTIME out of this!
She needed guidance in the studio and actually admitted this to me in1996. Naturally being the diva that she is Diana hated being ordered about in the studio [[or anywhere else for that matter), but when confronted by an equally opinionated producer the clash of ego's worked a treat, a la Ashford and Simpson, Chic, Michael Masser, Richard Perry, Lione Richie, Gibb Brothers, Luther etc etc. You get the picture.

You have to agree that Diana's vocals on WO are passionate if a little to high. I am talking vocals only here. Especially if you compare two ballads such as "This House" and "In Your Arms" for example.
It's interesting that she admitted to needing help in the studio. If only she had reached that conclusion after the release of WDFFIL.

[Bluebrock]

You have to agree that Diana's vocals on WO are passionate if a little to high. I am talking vocals only here. Especially if you compare two ballads such as "This House" and "In Your Arms" for example.
It's interesting that she admitted to needing help in the studio. If only she had reached that conclusion after the release of WDFFIL.

At this point in time she was more interested in making money than making good albums!!

[Ollie9]

At this point in time she was more interested in making money than making good albums!!

That is something i have always believed myself.

[lakedistrictlad1]

At this point in time she was more interested in making money than making good albums!!

I'd give anything to really know what Berry Gordy thought of her RCA music. There must have been moments when he listened to the train wreck and held his head in his hands.

[Bluebrock]

I'd give anything to really know what Berry Gordy thought of her RCA music. There must have been moments when he listened to the train wreck and held his head in his hands.

I have little doubt he did, and i have little doubt he told her so on more than one occasion.

[daviddh]

but I cant help but feel BG forced her out by over controlling her and of course ,..there the financial end of it
but then again I think she needed guidance......but not control

[daviddh]

would love to hear dianas version of Ive Got Crush On You. still want this style of album from her.

[Bluebrock]

would love to hear dianas version of Ive Got Crush On You. still want this style of album from her.

It is locked up in that vault david!

[Bluebrock]

but I cant help but feel BG forced her out by over controlling her and of course ,..there the financial end of it
but then again I think she needed guidance......but not control

He didn't force her out. Hr really wanted her to stay but he could not match the money RCA put on the table. Diana felt she was underpaid and overly controlled by Berry. She had a point but without Berry to reign in some of her excesses she spiralled out of control and became difficult to be around and to deal with.

[daviddh]

He didn't force her out. Hr really wanted her to stay but he could not match the money RCA put on the table. Diana felt she was underpaid and overly controlled by Berry. She had a point but without Berry to reign in some of her excesses she spiralled out of control and became difficult to be around and to deal with.

Bluebrock, I didn't mean to imply he pushed her out ,wrong words perhaps, I think you said it much better than me

[daviddh]

just wish she would give us something.....open the vaults, [[treasure chest)....we need our Ross fix...withdrawal.....suppose we have to wait for A GO GO , probably wont be released until Christmas shopping spree

[Bluebrock]

Bluebrock, I didn't mean to imply he pushed her out ,wrong words perhaps, I think you said it much better than me

No dramas David. I knew what you meant.

[Bluebrock]

just wish she would give us something.....open the vaults, [[treasure chest)....we need our Ross fix...withdrawal.....suppose we have to wait for A GO GO , probably wont be released until Christmas shopping spree

Ross78 could appear. Some more unreleased tracks were discovered 2/3 years back dating from the mid to late 70's. I have not heard any of them, but they could be used on a Ross78 expanded edition. There are also some Stevie Wonder produced songs from 72/73. Stevie owns the rights to them and does not appear to be in a hurry to release them. Those apart i think the motown solo well has just about run dry sadly.

[daviddh]

No dramas David. I knew what you meant.

just glad you are here to clarify. I think we need to have a talk with Diana, me thinks you should be in charge of the treasure chest.
thanks you for being here with us.
looking forward to A Go Go, here we are already in mid September, times flies faster as I get older .....hopefully a Ross splo will come soon after, or at least that has been the pattern thus far.
ive been listening to a lot of the alt outakes from the deluxe editions lately. been stuck on What Are You Doing The Rest Of Your Life. just lovely

[Bluebrock]

just glad you are here to clarify. I think we need to have a talk with Diana, me thinks you should be in charge of the treasure chest.
thanks you for being here with us.
looking forward to A Go Go, here we are already in mid September, times flies faster as I get older .....hopefully a Ross splo will come soon after, or at least that has been the pattern thus far.
ive been listening to a lot of the alt outakes from the deluxe editions lately. been stuck on What Are You Doing The Rest Of Your Life. just lovely

I always loved Dusty's version of that beautiful song. Diana does a good version too.

I would love to be in charge of Diana's back catalogue but i am no longer officially involved in the business. I do the odd thing here and there, and if Diana was involved i would be happy to contribute to any re-issue project. She is aware of this, but so far is unwilling to co-operate. I need to get my hands on the RCA unreleased stuff. I will keep digging away until she gives in.......

[daviddh]

I think they found some tracks that were recorded with Jeffrey Bowen. if my memory is correct, he was the producer-former husband of Bonnie Pointer. I think he produced Bonnies solo lps in the late 70s.
I think they were discovered while they were working on her Diana Ross 76 deluxe edition.
not sure why she is not interested in her catalogue but, hey, she doesn't see herself they way we do and she entitled to her life. perhaps she will change her mind.
maybe she just wants to chill now

[Bluebrock]

I think they found some tracks that were recorded with Jeffrey Bowen. if my memory is correct, he was the producer-former husband of Bonnie Pointer. I think he produced Bonnies solo lps in the late 70s.
I think they were discovered while they were working on her Diana Ross 76 deluxe edition.
not sure why she is not interested in her catalogue but, hey, she doesn't see herself they way we do and she entitled to her life. perhaps she will change her mind.
maybe she just wants to chill now

I suspect she does David. I expect to be in touch with her very shortly and i will try and get some clarification on this.

[daviddh]

I suspect she does David. I expect to be in touch with her very shortly and i will try and get some clarification on this.

cool keep us updated,love this behind the scenes stuff. thank you
don't forget to get the key,lol

[daviddh]

I think there was some tracks with Holland dozier holland