Wrong Lead Single - Ross lps

[Bluebrock]

I never liked the song Last Time I Saw Him, but I had a great fondness for the album. I thought it showed Diana is a different light than previous releases, a little more earthy, a little gritty. i liked that, not as a new direction but as a side street before getting back on the highway.

It's nice that some people did appreciate it. Personally i thought it was a dull, disjointed effort with no standout tracks. Great description thommg!! You have a way with words,

[thommg]

It's nice that some people did appreciate it. Personally i thought it was a dull, disjointed effort with no standout tracks. Great description thommg!! You have a way with words,

Thanks, Bluebrock! I have been enjoying all your "backstage" tales. They put a real human feature on things that are sometimes discussed in a dry, formulaic way.

[Bluebrock]

Thanks, Bluebrock! I have been enjoying all your "backstage" tales. They put a real human feature on things that are sometimes discussed in a dry, formulaic way.

Thank you very much thommg. It is so nice to look back on a very important part of my life and share some good, and not so good memories with people who share my great passion for music.

[daviddh]

sorry to say to I really disliked the Last Time I saw Him lp, thought it was a filler album and have only played it since it was released on cd. I think the out takes were far better than the songs they released but I also feel that way about most of the songs on Everything Is Everything. I would have issued Blue instead of LTISH. so many out standing out takes left in the can , especially .....WHAT ARE YOU DOING THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. what a great vocal and song.

[Bluebrock]

sorry to say to I really disliked the Last Time I saw Him lp, thought it was a filler album and have only played it since it was released on cd. I think the out takes were far better than the songs they released but I also feel that way about most of the songs on Everything Is Everything. I would have issued Blue instead of LTISH. so many out standing out takes left in the can , especially .....WHAT ARE YOU DOING THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. what a great vocal and song.

Couldn't agree with you more david. The only excuse i can offer in Berry's defence is that he was too busy attempting to make Diana a big screen Goddess and all round entertainer. He certainly took his foot off the pedal with her recording career when he authorised "eie" and "ltish". Little or no thought was put into these projects. Diana was forced to record songs she didn't like and work with producers who did not know how to get the best out of her. Even Ross78 though musically satisfying was a lazy and slap hazard attempt. Diana had no say in what was released and what was canned. Having said that she did need some guidance as was proved when she had total creative control at RCA and look at some of the stinkers she put out during that period. She needed someone who was not intimately involved with her but who would listen to her, stand up to her when necessary and offer unbiased advice. We did so well with her in the late 80's and 90's but i wish i had been around a little earlier when things could have been so much better.

[florence]

Not too much love here for Last Time I Saw Him.

I quite liked the album with tracks like No One's Gonna Be A Fool Forever, I Heard A Love Song, Stone Liberty and particularly her version of Charlie Rich's Behind Closed Doors which I thought she sang with great vocal versatility.

The title track was one of her biggest selling solo singles in the US. Although it "only" reached #14 it actually went top 10 in both the sales only based Cashbox and Record World and was massive in the Adult Contemporary market. It was certainy different.

Before your time, Bluerock but what do you know of I'm Gonna Make You Love me? One of my older brothers often mentioned it. He was aggrieved that although it wasn't banned by the BBC and reached #3 in the UK chart it was completely ignored by Top Of The Pops.

I don't know how far behind the top 2 it was but when you consider the amazing purchasing power TOTP could generate you've gotta think this record could have missed out big time?

With Good Morning Heartache [[twice), My Mistake and You're A Special Part of Me all making the breakers and presumably therefore in the top 100 it looks to me as the only Diana UK singles which didn't make this were definitely This House, probably Don't Knock My Love and what of What You Gave Me. Do you know how this did?

I can't understand how I missed this being released as a single back then. It just shows that no-one really knows what makes a hit single - that was a track I would have predicted would be one.

There is a well known guy on the internet who purports to be something of an expert on album sales. [[ I make no comment on this.)

He claims that unless an album of Diana's reached a certification level within a reasonable time of release EMI often never bothered and some of them subsequently reached certification level or a higher one which were never claimed. Obviously not the case for Motown's Greatest Hits or One Woman.

I know some of Diana's albums mostly compilations did continue to sell steadily particularly in the 80s and 90s. In 2000 without charting she sold 71k. Although she has such a big catalogue many of these will probably have sold only a small number each and a couple of the compilations maybe into 5 figures.

Based on the top 1000 selling albums in the UK Diana sold around 187k in 1984 for example. She was #s 72, 517, 521, 545, 695 and 835 in the list. The #72 will have sold in the low 100ks so you can see that lower down the figures aren't that high but you could be talking up to 10k. Over a couple of years ths would not be a really big amount but over a decade this could mount up substantially so it could be possible that some of Diana's albums did reach new certification levels?

What would your take on this be?

[Bluebrock]

Not too much love here for Last Time I Saw Him.

I quite liked the album with tracks like No One's Gonna Be A Fool Forever, I Heard A Love Song, Stone Liberty and particularly her version of Charlie Rich's Behind Closed Doors which I thought she sang with great vocal versatility.

The title track was one of her biggest selling solo singles in the US. Although it "only" reached #14 it actually went top 10 in both the sales only based Cashbox and Record World and was massive in the Adult Contemporary market. It was certainy different.

Before your time, Bluerock but what do you know of I'm Gonna Make You Love me? One of my older brothers often mentioned it. He was aggrieved that although it wasn't banned by the BBC and reached #3 in the UK chart it was completely ignored by Top Of The Pops.

I don't know how far behind the top 2 it was but when you consider the amazing purchasing power TOTP could generate you've gotta think this record could have missed out big time?

With Good Morning Heartache [[twice), My Mistake and You're A Special Part of Me all making the breakers and presumably therefore in the top 100 it looks to me as the only Diana UK singles which didn't make this were definitely This House, probably Don't Knock My Love and what of What You Gave Me. Do you know how this did?

I can't understand how I missed this being released as a single back then. It just shows that no-one really knows what makes a hit single - that was a track I would have predicted would be one.

There is a well known guy on the internet who purports to be something of an expert on album sales. [[ I make no comment on this.)

He claims that unless an album of Diana's reached a certification level within a reasonable time of release EMI often never bothered and some of them subsequently reached certification level or a higher one which were never claimed. Obviously not the case for Motown's Greatest Hits or One Woman.

I know some of Diana's albums mostly compilations did continue to sell steadily particularly in the 80s and 90s. In 2000 without charting she sold 71k. Although she has such a big catalogue many of these will probably have sold only a small number each and a couple of the compilations maybe into 5 figures.

Based on the top 1000 selling albums in the UK Diana sold around 187k in 1984 for example. She was #s 72, 517, 521, 545, 695 and 835 in the list. The #72 will have sold in the low 100ks so you can see that lower down the figures aren't that high but you could be talking up to 10k. Over a couple of years ths would not be a really big amount but over a decade this could mount up substantially so it could be possible that some of Diana's albums did reach new certification levels?

What would your take on this be?

I know of the guy you refer to on the internet. I think he has some valid points which could well be true. EMI certainly did not always bother to claim gold and silver discs. It was just a policy of theirs which appears ridiculous in these more enlightened times. Diana always has been a steady seller in the UK and still is to this very day.
As regards your question about "igmylm" it is perfectly true that TOTP ignored ths song. I am too young to remember this but i do know that Motown UK did complain about this at the time. Hd both groups been available to fly to the UK i have no doubt TOTP would granted them an appearance, It certainly had no.1 written all over it. The producers attempted to calm the situation by promoting "no matter what sign you are" and the next Temps duet "i second that emotion". Strangely Mary told me the girls appeared on TOTP singing "no matter what sign you are"but according to the TOTP database that is not true. Perhaps Mary just got mixed up but she insisted they did so i did not argue.
As i said in an earlier post each and every one of Diana's solo singles made the top 100 including "what you gave me" and "this house". I will get back to you on this. I'm sure "don't knock my love" also made a fleeting appearance. There were certainly 4 Diana/Marvin duets that charted but i cannot recall off hand if 5 were released? I am sure you can tell me that. You sound like you know your stuff!

[Jaap]

Without Diana over here to promote it we withdrew the single though i believe Belgium went ahead and released the single. We had also provisionally decided to finally release "until we meet again" as the follow up single but of course that did not happen either.Despite all thisthe album sold well.
Diana loved Dusty Springfield's version of "going back" and until the terrorist threat she was 100& behind it's release. Personally i didn't care much for it but i thought we had a hit on our hands. However it was not meant to be..

"Going Back" was also released in the Netherlands and made the charts, though did not chart high. I remember being excited about Diana Ross being produced by Guy Chambers, but when the song came out, I was a bit disappointed by the track. The vocals are good but the production to me sounded too bombastic. Obviously, with such a stellar version by Dusty it is a difficult song to cover. The music video was a collage of earlier music videos, clearly a rushed job. And the "b-side" was credited as "Not Over You Jet" [[which is the Dutch phonetically way of spelling Yet). A missed opportunity indeed. I'm curious to hear what the other song is that Ross recorded, but you are probably not at liberty to tell us that ;-).

[Bluebrock]

"Going Back" was also released in the Netherlands and made the charts, though did not chart high. I remember being excited about Diana Ross being produced by Guy Chambers, but when the song came out, I was a bit disappointed by the track. The vocals are good but the production to me sounded too bombastic. Obviously, with such a stellar version by Dusty it is a difficult song to cover. The music video was a collage of earlier music videos, clearly a rushed job. And the "b-side" was credited as "Not Over You Jet" [[which is the Dutch phonetically way of spelling Yet). A missed opportunity indeed. I'm curious to hear what the other song is that Ross recorded, but you are probably not at liberty to tell us that ;-).

It was written and produced by Guy Chambers. Without checking i cannot recall the title but it was slicker than "going back" though perhaps not as commercial. Diana wanted "going back" to be the single. I agree with you i was not a great version, but as you say Dusty's version was immense. We did want Guy Chambers to produce a whole album on Diana but he wasn't a big enough name Stateside. Despite this talks continued about him working on an album for the European market after Motown dropped her but after the Divas 2000 debacle it all came to nothing. It is a pity because the man was capable of writing some top notch pop songs.

[daviddh]

what I find interesting is that BG allowed her to be off the charts for such a long period, at least here in the states. when Elvis went in to the army the Col had EP record dozens of songs that would be released over a period of 2 years so that it would appear he was still here, and not have a out of sight out of mind kind of situation. it seems every year or two there is a new young flavor to take over. I think Diana lost some ground in the 70s when she was off the charts in 1972, 1974,1975 and half of 1977 as Baby Its Me didn't come out until late 77.
but she soon found her way back with the BOSS, a great album.

[daviddh]

with Love and Life, was it the plan to pick only one song??? couldn't more newer songs have been used? personally , even though I like the collection , I would have preferred more of her solo work

[daviddh]

btw.t really surprised me Chain Reaction wasn't a big hit here but it seems it sold very respectable sales thru out UK and has become one of her all time biggest hits. it seems the single has sold close to one million in over all sales and Eatin Alive lp 3 million

[Bluebrock]

btw.t really surprised me Chain Reaction wasn't a big hit here but it seems it sold very respectable sales thru out UK and has become one of her all time biggest hits. it seems the single has sold close to one million in over all sales and Eatin Alive lp 3 million

Yes both the single and album became amongst her most successful in the UK. Eaten Alive was a very good album in my opinion and could have done even better with a better choice of singles. Chain Reaction hit the UK top 20 again in the 90's and remains a staple on UKradio.

[Bluebrock]

with Love and Life, was it the plan to pick only one song??? couldn't more newer songs have been used? personally , even though I like the collection , I would have preferred more of her solo work

Diana compiled most of this album. I wanted a 3 cd set with the 3rd cd containing her duets and including a few newly recorded duets with artists such as Ronan Keating, Boy George and even Mariah Carey. The idea never got off the ground and we were condensed into a 2 cd set. I agree more solo stuff should have been included. As regards other new songs it was felt that if we included more new songs we would have had even less room for the classics. As it was several crucial hits were omitted due to time constraints. At the time we still hoped she would record a whole new album.

[florence]

Yes both the single and album became amongst her most successful in the UK. Eaten Alive was a very good album in my opinion and could have done even better with a better choice of singles. Chain Reaction hit the UK top 20 again in the 90's and remains a staple on UKradio.

The problem was that because of the Michael Jackson connection there was never any question that the title track would be the lead single and for me anyway it was awful. It more or less killed the albums chances off in the US and probably the other singles.

Chain Reaction was a classic , fortunately strong enough to break on it's own through the clubs and discos and music channels for RCA didn't do much to promote it.

In retrospect Experience was the wrong choice of follow-up, it should have been Crime Of Passion but that's hindsight and I have to hold my hand up and admit that at the time I thought it would be quite a big hit.

I don't know what the idea was but yes, all 10 tracks on the Diana and Marvin album were released on five singles. I must admit I didn't see the success of You Are Everything coming.

I'd have to respectfully disagree about Your House. When Gallup took over the chart franchise in 1983 they supplied a top 200 to the industry but the OCC appear to have now ratified the top 100 as official and all records appearing on it are detailed in an artist's chart history. So singles like Upfront, Shockwavesetc are included for Diana but no This House

[florence]

btw.t really surprised me Chain Reaction wasn't a big hit here but it seems it sold very respectable sales thru out UK and has become one of her all time biggest hits. it seems the single has sold close to one million in over all sales and Eatin Alive lp 3 million

I would say the single is well over the 1m.

It continued to sell steadily in the UK after 1986, even charting again in 1993 as Bluerock has said with another 40k sold and has been Diana's top seller on Downloads entering the iTunes chart on a number of occasions even reaching the top 200.

It has now just about passed the 800k mark in the UK and was the biggest selling record of 1986 in Australia being ony one of 3 records certified Platinum that year for sales in excess of 100k.

It was a quite a big hit in Germany which was a huge maeket and did well in many other territories - apparently it was even #1 in Venezuela!

So it will be well over the 1m - such a pity the US never took to it.

Even now it's an instant dance floor filler in the UK.

[Bluebrock]

The problem was that because of the Michael Jackson connection there was never any question that the title track would be the lead single and for me anyway it was awful. It more or less killed the albums chances off in the US and probably the other singles.

Chain Reaction was a classic , fortunately strong enough to break on it's own through the clubs and discos and music channels for RCA didn't do much to promote it.

In retrospect Experience was the wrong choice of follow-up, it should have been Crime Of Passion but that's hindsight and I have to hold my hand up and admit that at the time I thought it would be quite a big hit.

I don't know what the idea was but yes, all 10 tracks on the Diana and Marvin album were released on five singles. I must admit I didn't see the success of You Are Everything coming.

I'd have to respectfully disagree about Your House. When Gallup took over the chart franchise in 1983 they supplied a top 200 to the industry but the OCC appear to have now ratified the top 100 as official and all records appearing on it are detailed in an artist's chart history. So singles like Upfront, Shockwavesetc are included for Diana but no This House

Thank you for pointing out my mistake with "this house" I thought it grazed the bottom end of the chart but you obviously know your stuff Florence and am happy to concede that one to you.
I totally agree about "crimes of passion". It would have gone top 10 as the follow up to "chain reaction" which should have been the 1st single. I would have made that album a monster hit!
Diana will be very pleased she still has such loyal fans such as yourself. If you require any further information please feel free to ask.

[daviddh]

been listening to every day Is a New Day cd, and love it. still cant believe NOT OVER YOU YET wasn't released here in usa. the remix is a killer and still sounds good to me. should have been huge here.

[daviddh]

I also thought CRIMES OF PASSION from EA would have been the best single to follow up Chain Reaction. good album. wonder if there were any out takes. suppose we'll never know.I did hear Barry Gibb say he had written Island in the Stream for Diana . not sure if she recorded it or not.
I still would have preferred more new songs on Love and Life. less Supremes hits . anyway , it seem to be the thing with Voice Of Love, Gift Of Love. we get a new collection every year with one new song. of course, I would give anything for a new song now. I doubt we'll see Diana release anything new now.

[Bluebrock]

I also thought CRIMES OF PASSION from EA would have been the best single to follow up Chain Reaction. good album. wonder if there were any out takes. suppose we'll never know.I did hear Barry Gibb say he had written Island in the Stream for Diana . not sure if she recorded it or not.
I still would have preferred more new songs on Love and Life. less Supremes hits . anyway , it seem to be the thing with Voice Of Love, Gift Of Love. we get a new collection every year with one new song. of course, I would give anything for a new song now. I doubt we'll see Diana release anything new now.

There are a couple of outakes from the "eaten alive" sessions but i am not 100% certain they are completed. "chain reaction" was the final song to be recorded during the sessions believe it or not, and you are quite correct that Barry Gibb wrote "islands in the stream" as a proposed duet for him and Diana. Diana had been impressed with his work with Streisand and Dionne and wanted to work with him on an album in 1983 but their respective schedules did not allow it. Barry was a huge fan of Diana and remains so but they did not have the best working relationship. Despite this Diana wanted to work with him again whilst at Motown, and it almost happened.

[Ollie9]

There are a couple of outakes from the "eaten alive" sessions but i am not 100% certain they are completed. "chain reaction" was the final song to be recorded during the sessions believe it or not, and you are quite correct that Barry Gibb wrote "islands in the stream" as a proposed duet for him and Diana. Diana had been impressed with his work with Streisand and Dionne and wanted to work with him on an album in 1983 but their respective schedules did not allow it. Barry was a huge fan of Diana and remains so but they did not have the best working relationship. Despite this Diana wanted to work with him again whilst at Motown, and it almost happened.

Ohhhh what might have been.
Like Diana, i do enjoy songs of enpowerment such as "The Boss" And" Free [[Im Gone"). With EA, lyrics to songs such as "I'm watching you tonight and it's making me cry and "Why is it i can only cry and you can say goodbye" I'm begging down on my knees", i feel the album might benefit from just a couple of additional fun songs to lighten the mood.
I guess thats why i can never listen to "All The Befores". ...You Don't need him girl lol.

[Bluebrock]

Ohhhh what might have been.
Like Diana, i do enjoy songs of enpowerment such as "The Boss" And" Free [[Im Gone"). With EA, lyrics to songs such as "I'm watching you tonight and it's making me cry and "Why is it i can only cry and you can say goodbye" I'm begging down on my knees", i feel the album might benefit from just a couple of additional fun songs to lighten the mood.
I guess thats why i can never listen to "All The Befores". ...You Don't need him girl lol.

It was a dark album. Barry was going through a tough period and his lyrics kind of gave some insight into the problems he was facing at the time.

[daviddh]

I like most of the Eatin Alive album but honeslty I could hear Diana singing YOURS...a song from the Dionne album. I liked her MORE AND MORE vocal and for the most part the songs were good, I was not a fan of O Teacher .I would replace that and maybe one more. I had heard Barry state he wanted to work with Diana again. I am sorry it didn't happen , even if for only a few tracks. would have been nice if Islands in the Stream would have been a huge hit for Diana.

[daviddh]

on Ross 78, Diana did some tracks with Greg Wright, YOU Were The One, Never Say I Don't Love You. in my opinion, the two best tracks. anyone know if she did any other songs with Greg Wright. I wish the entire album was produced by him

[Bluebrock]

I like most of the Eatin Alive album but honeslty I could hear Diana singing YOURS...a song from the Dionne album. I liked her MORE AND MORE vocal and for the most part the songs were good, I was not a fan of O Teacher .I would replace that and maybe one more. I had heard Barry state he wanted to work with Diana again. I am sorry it didn't happen , even if for only a few tracks. would have been nice if Islands in the Stream would have been a huge hit for Diana.

I think she lived to regret turning down "islands in the stream". Without wishing to speak ill of the dead it was Maurice Gibb who clashed with Diana rather than Barry, and Maurice wasn't even in the studio that often. I would have loved to have seen them do another album together too.

[Bluebrock]

on Ross 78, Diana did some tracks with Greg Wright, YOU Were The One, Never Say I Don't Love You. in my opinion, the two best tracks. anyone know if she did any other songs with Greg Wright. I wish the entire album was produced by him

Not sure if they are Greg Wright productions but i do know that a handful of unreleased songs were discovered in the vault last year dating back to the mid/late 70's. We will get to hear them on the expanded Ross78 but until then we must be patient.

[lakedistrictlad1]

Not sure if they are Greg Wright productions but i do know that a handful of unreleased songs were discovered in the vault last year dating back to the mid/late 70's. We will get to hear them on the expanded Ross78 but until then we must be patient.

....which will be issued on CD. Hopefully.

[Bluebrock]

....which will be issued on CD. Hopefully.

Just download i fear but we have ways of getting it on physical cd.

[daviddh]

I am not holding my breath, I suppose I have gotten more patient in my older years. but it is a but irritaiting that NO news/ info is coming such as "coming summer2016" or something similar. I find it disrespectful to the loyal fans. so I kind of gave up hope..... so to speak.i know it may come one day,....one year.....hopefully b4 I have to use a hearing aid to listen to it

[daviddh]

what do you guys think her best RCA album was. I was originally thinking Eaten Alive, but REd HOT and Blue seems solid. I think had it been released in 83 or so it would have done well, but it was dated by 1989.
after that, The Force, Take Me Higher, Everyday is...also seem to be really good albums

[jobeterob]

Eaten Alive and RHRnB and Swept Away

Why Do Fools Fall In Love was also good.

Not Silk Electric and Ross

[Ollie9]

[QUOTE=daviddh;332414]what do you guys think her best RCA album was. I was originally thinking Eaten Alive, but REd HOT and Blue seems solid. I think had it been released in 83 or so it would have done well, but it was dated by 1989.
after that, The Force, Take Me Higher, Everyday is...also seem to be really good albums[/QUOTE

I do agree David. I think RHRAB is a solid album but to me it sounded a tad dated when released in 87. It would have made a nice follow up to " Why Do Fools" in 82. Here is my very micro review of Diana's RCA albums .... and a few Motown.

1. Why Do Fools. Terrible production, but a few good songs.

2. Silk Electric. Other then Muscles, bloody awful.

3. ross. Sounds better today, though i only like the Katz produced songs. Girls almost destroys the whole vibe of the album.

4. Swept Away. Take off " Rescue Me" & "Children". Add "Fight For It" and you have a good album.

5. Eaten Alive. An ok effort, but needed a killer ballad.

6. Red Hot. A solid album, but sounded dated for the time.

Workin Overtime. I really like it's positive energy, but the key should have been lowered on at least three songs.

7. Force Behind The Power. An excellent pop album that holds up well.

8. A Vey Special Season. One of the best christmas albums ever, and not just because it's Diana.

9. Take Me Higher. At last a return to a more r & b sound. A very solid album that still sounds fresh today.

10. Everyday Is A New Day. Sounds even better today than when it was first released. A quality, adult album that should have put her back on top. One that got away.

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=Ollie9;332489]

what do you guys think her best RCA album was. I was originally thinking Eaten Alive, but REd HOT and Blue seems solid. I think had it been released in 83 or so it would have done well, but it was dated by 1989.
after that, The Force, Take Me Higher, Everyday is...also seem to be really good albums[/QUOTE

I do agree David, i think RHRAB is a solid album, but to me it sounded a tad dated when released in 87. It would have made a nice follow up to " Why Do Fools" in 82. Heres my very micro review of Diana's RCA albums .... and a few Motown.
1. Why Do Fools - Terrible production, but a few good songs.
2. Silk Electric - Other then Muscles, bloody awful.
3. ross. Sounds better today. I only like the Katz producd songs. Girls almost destroys the whole vibe of the album.
4. Swept Away. Take off " Rescue Me" and "Children" and you have a good album.
Eaten Alive. An ok effort, but needed a killer ballad.
5.Red Hot - A solid album, but sounded dated for the time.
6. Workin Overtime - I really like it's positive energy, but the key should have been lowered on at least three songs.
5. A Vey Special Season. One of the best christmas albums ever, and not just because it's Diana
6. Take Me Higher - At last a return to a more r & b sound. A very solid album that still sounds fresh today.
7. Everyday Is A New Day - Sounds even better today than when it was released. A quality, adult album that should have put her back on top. One that got away.

What about "force behind the power"? You don't mention that great album. I know i am biased but it is my favourite, not necessarily for the musical content but for the fact that it cemented my relationship with Diana and i got to choose the singles.
I disagree with you about "working overtime" Dreadful album in my opinion but you are entitled to your opinion. Silk Electric was another turkey as you say except for "muscles". Didn't care for Ross83 with a couple of exceptions, but for the most part i agree with your opinions.
I also love the Christmas album. She had so much fun recording that. It is one holiday cd that i dig out religiously every year and for me it is what Christmas is all about.
Great post Ollie.

[Ollie9]

[QUOTE=Bluebrock;332494]

What about "force behind the power"? You don't mention that great album. I know i am biased but it is my favourite, not necessarily for the musical content but for the fact that it cemented my relationship with Diana and i got to choose the singles.
I disagree with you about "working overtime" Dreadful album in my opinion but you are entitled to your opinion. Silk Electric was another turkey as you say except for "muscles". Didn't care for Ross83 with a couple of exceptions, but for the most part i agree with your opinions.
I also love the Christmas album. She had so much fun recording that. It is one holiday cd that i dig out religiously every year and for me it is what Christmas is all about.
Great post Ollie.

I just did a re-edit job to include "Force" Bluebrock. I seem to stand alone slighty as regards WW, but it is one i still play today. I think "This House" and "Stand Together" are two of Diana's very best ballads. "Say We Can" picks me up whenever i have self doubt.
Great to hear Diana had fun recording the christmas album. It strikes just the right balance between traditional and fun.

[Bluebrock]

[QUOTE=Ollie9;332497]

I just did a re-edit job to include "Force" Bluebrock. I seem to stand alone slighty as regards WW, but it is one i still play today. I think "This House" and "Stand Together" are two of Diana's very best ballads. "Say We Can" picks me up whenever i have self doubt.
Great to hear Diana had fun recording the christmas album. It strikes just the right balance between traditional and fun.

Good work with "fbtp"
I am pleased that you enjoy "wo". Your opinion of it is every bit as valid as mine. No-one is right and no-one is wrong.
As regards the Christmas album it was something she wanted to do for years and i was lucky enough to be at some of the sessions. Diana recorded 18 songs for the project and i would love an expanded version some day.

[Ollie9]

Meant to type "WO" Just can it get it on today.....................

[Ollie9]

Do you remember what other songs Diana recorded at the sessions.
I would have left off "Ave Maria". Thats the only one that does not work for me. Some of her vocal performances on this wonderful album were a revelation to me at the time

[Bluebrock]

Do you remember what other songs Diana recorded at the sessions.
I would have left off "Ave Maria". Thats the only one that does not work for me. Some of her vocal performances on this wonderful album were a revelation to me at the time

From what i recall i think she also cut "santa baby" "rudolph the rednosed reindeer" "what child is this" "joy to the world" and "it came upon a midnight clear". The original album contains 14 songs if memory serves, so on 2nd thoughts she must have cut 19 tracks.

[Ollie9]

From what i recall i think she also cut "santa baby" "rudolph the rednosed reindeer" "what child is this" "joy to the world" and "it came upon a midnight clear". The original album contains 14 songs if memory serves, so on 2nd thoughts she must have cut 19 tracks.

"Santa Baby" would have been a perfect match for Diana's breathy vocals. Hard to understand how "Ave Maria" was left on. He vocal is very wobbly on it, and her pronunciation to literal.
It really does deserve the expanded treatment as apart from that one song it really works. This album and another by an artist named Kem are the only two christmas albums i listen to.

[florence]

Although EMI were very savvy in their marketing if Diana in the UK I think they slightly lost the plot in 1974.

All Of My Life was an inspired choice of single and although it almost got lost in the Christmas avalanche in 1973 it managed to get a toehold in the chart at the beginning of 1974 and went top 10.

The big winner was the Touch Me album which had dropped of the chart but in the wake of Life re-entered and went all the way back to the top 10.

I never understood though why they kept releasing singles from the Diana/Marvin album.

My Mistake as the fourth single barely troubled the charts so how did they expect a fifth single Don't Knock My Love to do anything especially when the album had been massive.

I'd have had My Mistake as the third single and follow-up to Everything.

I suppose they wanted to go with something from the current album when Last Time came around and I know a lot of fans rated Love Me although to me it was somewhat anaemic. The fact that it managed to make the top 40 at all was a tribute to Diana's popularity at all but really there was a wealth of great ballads on previous albums which had UK hit single written all over them.

There was definitely at least one more singleobn Touch namely We Need You which would have been a much better choice.

As far as I'm concerned Diana's best album was easily The Force Behind The Power [[followed by Swept Away). It was jam packed with great pop songs.

When you Tell Me That You Love Me was divine and thoroughly deserved it's great UK success.

It was touted as a possible Christmas #1 in 1991. Was this a genuine belief, Bluerock or just part of the marketing PR?

In the 70s this would have soared easily into the top 10 but with Diana not having had a really big hit in the UK for several years I just didn't know how it would fare.

I have to congratulate you and your team for the sperb marketing job you did on it. I remember a specially designed little box with copies of the single in it whic appeared on the counter of my local record store. It scooped in a load of impromptu sales.

The record must have sold heavily at the end of the week when it was released because I can remember listening anxiously to the chart shows the next Sunday switching between the Network and Official rundowns, to see if it had entered the top 40. When it hadn't shown up towards the bottom of the Network chart by the time they had reached the lower 20s on Radio One I was resigned to the fact that it had missed out and was hoping that it wasn't too far outside and might enter the following week.

When it got to the top 10 and said "#10 New Entry - DIANA ROSS" I just turned to jelly!

But for the tragic death of Freddy Mercury while not 100% guaranteed When You Tell Me had a very strong chance of actually being the Christmas #1.

Someone put a rumour out which still persists today that Diana had only been beaten to the #1 Christmas week by a hair's breadth but the truth is that she was outsold by a something like a margon of 4-1 but it was still a great performance.

[Bluebrock]

"Santa Baby" would have been a perfect match for Diana's breathy vocals. Hard to understand how "Ave Maria" was left on. He vocal is very wobbly on it, and her pronunciation to literal.
It really does deserve the expanded treatment as apart from that one song it really works. This album and another by an artist named Kem are the only two christmas albums i listen to.

Diana had the final say on the tracklisting. She loved "ava maria" as do i but i think i must agree with you that her voice is not shown to best effect on this song. However Diana herself must have been satisfied with her vocals.
Going slightly off topic i am familiar with Kem. I do own one of his cd's but not the Christmas one.If it really is as good as you say i may well invest in it.

[Bluebrock]

Although EMI were very savvy in their marketing if Diana in the UK I think they slightly lost the plot in 1974.

All Of My Life was an inspired choice of single and although it almost got lost in the Christmas avalanche in 1973 it managed to get a toehold in the chart at the beginning of 1974 and went top 10.

The big winner was the Touch Me album which had dropped of the chart but in the wake of Life re-entered and went all the way back to the top 10.

I never understood though why they kept releasing singles from the Diana/Marvin album.

My Mistake as the fourth single barely troubled the charts so how did they expect a fifth single Don't Knock My Love to do anything especially when the album had been massive.

I'd have had My Mistake as the third single and follow-up to Everything.

I suppose they wanted to go with something from the current album when Last Time came around and I know a lot of fans rated Love Me although to me it was somewhat anaemic. The fact that it managed to make the top 40 at all was a tribute to Diana's popularity at all but really there was a wealth of great ballads on previous albums which had UK hit single written all over them.

There was definitely at least one more singleobn Touch namely We Need You which would have been a much better choice.

As far as I'm concerned Diana's best album was easily The Force Behind The Power [[followed by Swept Away). It was jam packed with great pop songs.

When you Tell Me That You Love Me was divine and thoroughly deserved it's great UK success.

It was touted as a possible Christmas #1 in 1991. Was this a genuine belief, Bluerock or just part of the marketing PR?

In the 70s this would have soared easily into the top 10 but with Diana not having had a really big hit in the UK for several years I just didn't know how it would fare.

I have to congratulate you and your team for the sperb marketing job you did on it. I remember a specially designed little box with copies of the single in it whic appeared on the counter of my local record store. It scooped in a load of impromptu sales.

The record must have sold heavily at the end of the week when it was released because I can remember listening anxiously to the chart shows the next Sunday switching between the Network and Official rundowns, to see if it had entered the top 40. When it hadn't shown up towards the bottom of the Network chart by the time they had reached the lower 20s on Radio One I was resigned to the fact that it had missed out and was hoping that it wasn't too far outside and might enter the following week.

When it got to the top 10 and said "#10 New Entry - DIANA ROSS" I just turned to jelly!

But for the tragic death of Freddy Mercury while not 100% guaranteed When You Tell Me had a very strong chance of actually being the Christmas #1.

Someone put a rumour out which still persists today that Diana had only been beaten to the #1 Christmas week by a hair's breadth but the truth is that she was outsold by a something like a margon of 4-1 but it was still a great performance.

It was only the tragic death of Freddie Mercury that prevented "wytmtylm" reaching no,1. In the wake of his passing "bohemian Rhapsody" was reissued and sold by the bucketload. At one point Diana was no.1 in the mid about week chart and she was really excited about this. She was based in the UK at this point and she was busy rehearsing for the Royal Variety Performance [[i shall tell you a funny story about that later). She was very gracious when she was beaten to the no.1 slot and she posted a moving tribute to Freddie Mercury whom she had met several times and they were big fans of each other.
Thank you for the compliment regarding the marketing. We knew we had a potential monster hit on our hands. Both radio 1 and radio 2 loved the song. We were given a big budget to promote it and as i said Diana herself was constantly available and a real pleasure to be around. We worked our butts off but we also had some great fun.
I agree with most of what you say about 1974. I could have picked better songs to release although "ltish" was an average album at best. Not sure why they released so many Diana/Marvin songs but i do know the album was a big seller over a long period of time in the UK so maybe releasing the singles increased the lifespan of the album.
Thank you again Florence for your interest. I am really enjoying sharing my memories and as long as there is continued interest i will carry on sharing.

[thommg]

Loving all these opinions on the various LP's.

The only RCA album I didn't care for was Silk Electric. I think Love Lies was the best song on the LP. I really liked that one, but it had a bad ending/fade out. The Ross album was one of my faves but I preferred the Katz productions. I would have replaced Girls with a better song, and maybe added one more. My two favorites would be Eaten Alive and Swept Away. Red Hot just didn't click with me, though I like the tracks. As many have said, maybe it's sound was too dated when it was released. It seemed, though, that Diana was trying to get back to a more band based sound than some of the 80s electronics on Swept Away.

Regarding her final Motown albums, I still do not like Working Overtime. I just don't care for the material, most of which I find very repetitious and meandering. I liked Force behind The Power but my money was on Take Me Higher. I love that disc. To me, that was everything Diana. We got songs that showed all aspects of her from ballad to dance.

I still wish someone could convince her to do one last album of Stevie Wonder songs. i don't want her last recording to be I Love You, which was uninspired. I would like the Stevie Wonder project to happen, Bluebrock. Could you do something about that, please????

[reese]

Re the RCA years, my favorites are SWEPT AWAY and RED HOT RHYTHM AND BLUES. I think both are full of great songs, and I can play them both through without skipping a track.

WHY DO FOOLS FALL IN LOVE and ROSS also have their share of good songs. But neither album makes my personal Diana Top 10.

For some reason, EATEN ALIVE is an album that I never got into. I remember playing it when it was first released but I only gravitated to EXPERIENCE and CHAIN REACTION. When I bought the recent cd reissue of it, most of the songs were totally unfamiliar to me.

Besides EATEN ALIVE, SILK ELECTRIC is probably my least favorite, although I played it enough that I can still recall the songs, which is not the case with EATEN ALIVE. I still think it might have been interesting if FOOL FOR YOUR LOVE was released as the second single. SO CLOSE was a terrible choice, IMO.

[thommg]

Besides EATEN ALIVE, SILK ELECTRIC is probably my least favorite, although I played it enough that I can still recall the songs, which is not the case with EATEN ALIVE. I still think it might have been interesting if FOOL FOR YOUR LOVE was released as the second single. SO CLOSE was a terrible choice, IMO.

I wonder if I would like Silk Electric better if it had a better mix. The songs have waaay too much reverb and echo on them and Diana is lost in the mix far too often. I was hoping we might get that with the last release. Though it sounds better than it did, it is still not very good to my ear.

[Bluebrock]

Loving all these opinions on the various LP's.

The only RCA album I didn't care for was Silk Electric. I think Love Lies was the best song on the LP. I really liked that one, but it had a bad ending/fade out. The Ross album was one of my faves but I preferred the Katz productions. I would have replaced Girls with a better song, and maybe added one more. My two favorites would be Eaten Alive and Swept Away. Red Hot just didn't click with me, though I like the tracks. As many have said, maybe it's sound was too dated when it was released. It seemed, though, that Diana was trying to get back to a more band based sound than some of the 80s electronics on Swept Away.

Regarding her final Motown albums, I still do not like Working Overtime. I just don't care for the material, most of which I find very repetitious and meandering. I liked Force behind The Power but my money was on Take Me Higher. I love that disc. To me, that was everything Diana. We got songs that showed all aspects of her from ballad to dance.

I still wish someone could convince her to do one last album of Stevie Wonder songs. i don't want her last recording to be I Love You, which was uninspired. I would like the Stevie Wonder project to happen, Bluebrock. Could you do something about that, please????

Oh how i miss i had that influence!!
For the record i do believe Diana will record one more album. I am also pretty sure she has been in the studio recording material over the past few years but for various reasons these songs haven't seen the light of day. I totally agree that "i love you" cannot be allowed to be her swansong . It all boils down to Diana. She has not been short of offers but if she turns down Nile Rodgers then you wonder if she has the heart for it anymore.
As regards the Stevie Wonder album this idea has been suggested before and it could work if planned correctly, but other artists have beaten her to it so you wonder [[no pun intended) if that boat has not already sailed.
Diana is aware her fans would love her to record a new album. She was impressed with Cher's comeback a couple of years ago, and she knows it could be successful but i don't think she would relish all the promotional stuff anymore. She does not have the energy she once had and she loves to spend time with her ever expanding family. She certainly does not need the money so it will only happen if Diana herself decides she wants it enough. A record company would insist upon her undertaking worldwide promotional duties and therin lies the problem. I cannot really add more than that.

[daviddh]

WHY DO FOOLS FALL. I remember being disappointed that this was the follow up to Diana album. it was a let down to me. but it was ok.i think Sweet Surrender was a song I liked.
Silk Electric , I liked this better for songs like WHO, Love Lies. I did read somewhere most of the songs from SE were out takes from WDFFIL .
ROSS 83.i only liked side One. and Lets Go UP. the rest was to laid back.
SWEPT AWAY. totally agree that removing WE R THe Children. Rescue ME.
Eatin Alive , was good ,some good songs but I thought it was dated by 1985. if this was released in 83 it would have been huge.
RED HOT,. solid album. except Tell Me Again. I cant believe that was even a single
WORKIN OVERTIME. hmmm disappointing but I do like Paradise, This House, Keep On Dancin.
THE FORCE. solid great album
TAKE ME HIGHER great album
EVERYDAY IS great album
VERY SPECIAL SEASON Great album. forgot about this one

one song I wish she recorded was Ribbon in The Sky. I think she sang this in central Park.great song and I always thought she could really make it a great song
I do like the idea of her doing a songbook kinda of album.I saw her in concert with Palc Damingo and a few other.sorry I forget all the names but Diana was great and she performed some classics if memory serves me correctly and I was really impressed with her vocals.
maybe an album with songs from Nile, Barry Gibb but one producer.

[florence]

It was only the tragic death of Freddie Mercury that prevented "wytmtylm" reaching no,1. In the wake of his passing "bohemian Rhapsody" was reissued and sold by the bucketload. At one point Diana was no.1 in the mid about week chart and she was really excited about this.

Are you talking about the week before Christmas week when Diana rather surprisingly ended up slipping back from #2 to #4? As far as I was aware the sales Christmas week were something like 280k for Queen and 69k for Diana.

This is not meant to be cheeky and after all what do I know about marketing? but was there any problem about the release date of Your Love. I personally always felt this was bungled.

The UK chart seems to follow patterns and go rather static the week before Christmas. When You Tell Me and If We Hold On had five weeks pre-Christmas sales whereas Your Love in 1993 was only given four. It may not have peaked higher but had it been released a week earlier it would surely have sold at least 20k more.

I have always felt that "morally" Diana was the UK#1 Christmas album that year with One Woman.

Because Christmas Day was a Saturday that year the Christmas week chart was officially called on sales to Saturday 18 December. But Diana went to #1 the next week on sales of 200k+ based up to 23rd December. As shops closed on Christmas day back then I always felt this was the true Christmas chart topper.

[sup_fan]

WOW!!! 5 pages of discussion, comments, stories and insight. and no bitching, snarking, or hate. this is what makes SoulfulDetroit Forum great

here are my thoughts on her albums from 81 onwards:

WDFFIN - i've grown to appreciate her RCA stuff more. sort of "iPod" era onward lol. i never played the lps much and rarely included them on mixed tapes and all back in the day. but now i do play them quite a bit. i actually like most of this lp. title track is fun, as is Never Too Late - this one sounds very early 80s to me lol. Mirror is great too although getting a bit carried away with the reverb. Two Can make is is the weakest track IMO. Work That Body is campy fun.

Silk - Fool For Your Love is not great. valiant attempt but not Diana. Turn Me Over i thought was fun. obviously not a serious track but a cute concept. Who is a good track. Love Lies too. I Am Me is ok. i do think the echo and reverb is again getting too heavy here

Ross - i think the problem here is it's a bit too disjointed. with Silk you had Hard Rock, ballad, light disco, raegae, etc. So it comes across as a bit of mix set of styles. Here though it seems out of sync. Pieces of Ice is odd. very odd. That's How You Start Over is a solid track but i think her vocals are a bit lackluster. she never really gets going. I think Girls is another 80s-campy fun song. sure it's not a mega hit or vocally dynamic. but it's fun and could have been great in a video. You Do It and Love and Loneliness are pretty good too. but like That's How, they need stronger more exciting vocals

Swept - overall solid production. i think the mixing and producing of her vocals here is much better. clean, not too much echo. but i think there are too many "throw away" tracks. Rescue Me, We are the children, Forever - i think 1 of those should have been kept and the others cut. needed more original material

Eaten - i'm not a fan of this set. Diana's voice has a nasality to it that IMO does NOT lead itself well to the Gibb falsetto sound. the guys have their own nasality to their tones and so it's too much. and i think the production of her vocals here is terrible too. too much echo, reverb, poor mixing. i do NOT like her breathy squeeky performance on More.

Red Hot - one of her most disjointed albums. the "throwback" to oldies tracks was fine as 1 song on her debut but i think the idea of a full album of this was not the right idea in her career at this time. a tv special is one thing. but she needed strong material and up to date content to keep her relevant in the record buying world.

Workin - i've almost never listened to this until just this past year. actually i've come to appreciate it a bit more. title track is a dud. but Bottom Line is great. Say We Can, Paradise, Going Through the Motions are all pretty good too.

Force Behind - not a fan of the title track. I'm not a huge Stevie fan so frankly i'm glad she never did a whole lp with him. but other tracks on here are much stronger. i do think the album is too heavy with ballads. Heart is good and so is When You tell Me. Heavy Weather could have been better - make it a bit more soul exciting. love battlefield

Box Set - Your Love is one i like a lot. It's A Wonderful Life sounds like Battlefield and Chain Reaction had a Love Child lolol. But she needed a more solid and contemporary dance song. Let's Make is ok but a bit too Kenny G

Take Me Higher - title track is a good track but not a fan of the lyrics. If You're Not Gonna - great song. lots of great ballads on here but gets a bit ballad heavy. I Thought We Were Still is gorgeous. as is Gone and the others. but needed more up tempo. I Will Survive was great but a year or two too late. the original had already had a resurgence and there was a popular techno/dance version released of Gloria Gaynor. so by the time Diana's came around, it wasn't very new or exciting

Everyday - He Lives In You don't like these "moral" songs. again overall i like the album and the dance remixes of some of the tracks really were great. but those should have been the album version. like Cher's Believe. that wasn't some slow groove ballad. it was a hot dance track on the album and in remixes. that should have been the approach to Not Over You Yet

I Love You - as if they recorded her are a karaoke bar singing after too many sakes

Blue - stunning. i agree with a writer that said her jazz work in the early 70s was every bit as courageous, exciting and artistically important as anything Marvin or Stevie were doing

[sup_fan]

broke this into a separate thread. i've done a bunch of my own playlists in iTunes to recreate various Sup and Diana albums that could have been a stronger concept. Like the Reflections, Love Child, Promises Kept or Ross 78 sets.

Ross 78 - making this more of a soft pop, ballad set
Side 1
Together
Share Some Love
Harmony
Never say I Don't Love You
Old Funky Rolls

Side 2
Come Together [[remixed version)
Sorry Doesn't Make It
Where Did We Go wrong
We're always saying goodbye
To Love Again

Feelin' Fun - her disco album for 78
Lovin' Livin' Givin'
What You Gave Me
You Build Me Up
You Were The One

Side 2
For Once In My Life
We Can Never Light
Fire Don't Burn
Sweet Summertime Lovin