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  1. #1
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    Why was Jackie Wilson Never Signed To Motown?

    considering Gordy's start in the biz.. never saw this discussed

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    I'm glad a whole lot of people didn't get signed to Motown. I didn't want everyone sounding like they came off a factory assembly line.

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    Ouch,hey soulster you mad at berry? If you think that motown had an assembly line sound just listen to some of the stuff that came out of chicago,i love curtis but some of his stuff had that sameness to it,and i would've love to have heard what[hdh]would've done with jackie.

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    I thought it was because Brunswick had a very tight grip on him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luke View Post
    I thought it was because Brunswick had a very tight grip on him.
    Very tight. Jackie was managed by Nat Tarnapol [[who also took over the reins at Brunswick) whom Berry Gordy had previously worked for as a songwriter. Jackie was Nats flagship artist. Nat was very well connected [[if you know what I mean), and neither Berry nor Jackie thought it would be a good idea to try to mess with Nats meal ticket. Plus, Jackie did pretty well financially with Nat, although many of the songwriters had their royalties diverted or outright stolen. Unfortunately, Jackie did not plan for the future with the money he was making, lived a costly lifestyle, and blew through a lot of money. When he hit with a couple of hits in the late 60's, it temporarily shored up his finances, but by the time he he fell ill, suffering a heart attack on stage, he was again struggling financially and never recovered his money or his health...
    Last edited by StuBass1; 01-30-2016 at 08:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StuBass1 View Post
    Very tight. Jackie was managed by Nat Tarnapol [[who also took over the reins at Brunswick) whom Berry Gordy had previously worked for as a songwriter. Jackie was Nats flagship artist. Nat was very well connected [[if you know what I mean), and neither Berry nor Jackie thought it would be a good idea to try to mess with Nats meal ticket. Plus, Jackie did pretty well financially with Nat, although many of the songwriters had their royalties diverted or outright stolen. Unfortunately, Jackie did not plan for the future with the money he was making, lived a costly lifestyle, and blew through a lot of money. When he hit with a couple of hits in the late 60's, it temporarily shored up his finances, but by the time he he fell ill, suffering a heart attack on stage, he was again struggling financially and never recovered his money or his health...

    Great post Stu!

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    Here is a good YouTube posting of a 20/20 story from years ago:


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    Quote Originally Posted by marv2 View Post
    Great post Stu!
    When Nats mother died, Nat came to Detroit to be raised by his mothers sister who also happened to be my Great Aunt. Nat worked for a bar owner named Al Green. Jackie was being managed by Al Green, but on the day Jackie signed his Brunswick contract, Al died and Nat moved in and took over. As I mentioned, Nat gave songwriting credits to himself and family members. I remember as a kid looking at the credits on "Doggin Around", and noticed my Aunt Lena listed as the songwriter, I'm sure as a sort of payback for raising him... It took years for the actual writer, Alonzo Tucker to get his credit back on that song. When Nat moved to New York, he got so big and so well connected there that he was actually rumored to be the guy who was going to buy the New York Yankees before Steinbrenner. Reggie Jackson was a regular hanging out at Nats Brunswick office.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockhartgary View Post
    Here is a good YouTube posting of a 20/20 story from years ago:

    Great clip thanks. Mary looks gorgeous.

  10. #10
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    Simple. He couldn't leave Brunswick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arr&bee View Post
    Ouch,hey soulster you mad at berry?
    Not at all, man. But, I like a variety of sound, and there were lots of it in the 60s. Not only that, many artists that were on Motown got lost in the shuffle. Some tried to branch out and succeeded, while others failed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StuBass1 View Post
    Very tight. Jackie was managed by Nat Tarnapol [[who also took over the reins at Brunswick) whom Berry Gordy had previously worked for as a songwriter. Jackie was Nats flagship artist. Nat was very well connected [[if you know what I mean), and neither Berry nor Jackie thought it would be a good idea to try to mess with Nats meal ticket. Plus, Jackie did pretty well financially with Nat, although many of the songwriters had their royalties diverted or outright stolen. Unfortunately, Jackie did not plan for the future with the money he was making, lived a costly lifestyle, and blew through a lot of money. When he hit with a couple of hits in the late 60's, it temporarily shored up his finances, but by the time he he fell ill, suffering a heart attack on stage, he was again struggling financially and never recovered his money or his health...

    A side note is that from all I have read, Nat Tarnapol was also a bit of a racist, as were many record moguls.

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    It probably was just as simple as he was already in a contract and the company wanted to keep him and Jackie wanted to stay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soulster View Post
    A side note is that from all I have read, Nat Tarnapol was also a bit of a racist, as were many record moguls.
    Hello Soulster...I don't know about that. Certainly my Aunt Lena, who raised Nat from the age of 12 didn't have a racist bone in her body...She was a Russian immigrant who married another Russian immigrant, my Uncle Nate who became quite successful as the owner of the Detroiter Hotel [[he was my Grandfathers brother who got all of his brothers including Nate on the road to success before being take down by the market crash of 1929). Uncle Nate ultimately took off with a younger more attractive woman, and Aunt Lena remained very "old country" and even welcomed a young Jackie Wilson to stay in her house from time to time. Anyways, as pertains to Nat...he immersed himself at a young age in the black community of Detroit, especially his love of R&B music. He was also an avid baseball fan and when he made his move to New York, it was not uncommon, according to many reports, that Reggie Jackson and other ballplayers would hang out at his office. Nat was supposedly responsible for bringing Reggie to the Yankees. Louis Armstrong its been said also used to hang out in Nats office and smoke weed with him and a young Al Sharpton was a frequent visitor at Brunswick. That said...Nat was by all accounts, a real hard ass businessman...and while one may hear of stories of Nat taking advantage of some black music business associates...he took advantage of as many white business associates [[the way he forced himself into the Presidency of Brunswick and then got them to release the pressing and distribution back to him in a reversal of the original deal was real hardball stuff), but Nat also helped many black artists, songwriters, and producers such as Gene Chandler, Eugene Record, Kenny Gamble Tyrone Davis,,and many others break into the business...got Brusnwick [[before he took over) to advance Jackie Wilson a quarter of a million dollars he needed [[an enormous sum of money in those day and 5 times more than Sun Records even advanced Elvis). I believe that Nat had a deep affection for Jackie, yet Jackie's lifestyle and spending habits did Jackie in more than anything else. Nat orchestrated the [[bogus) story of the woman who shot Jackie in a so called "attempted suicide" to virtually save Jackie's career at the time. Nat was known to buy many people, ballplayers and entertainers Mercedes...black and white folks, just for being his friend. So I don't know about Nat's being a "little bit" racist any more than how one becomes a "little bit" pregnant...but Nat was always looking to have the upper hand in ANY and ALL of his business dealings, regardless of the persons race or religion.
    Last edited by StuBass1; 01-31-2016 at 05:21 PM.

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    I don't think he was racist but he still did Jackie dirty in the end...

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    yikes..where's the movie? I know that Michael Jackson was prompted to pay attention to him, and didn't MJ pay for his funeral, or part of it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by midnightman View Post
    I don't think he was racist but he still did Jackie dirty in the end...
    I agree that one could reach that conclusion, however, remember that following Jackie's heart attack and years in a virtual coma, It's said that Nat paid to keep Jackie in the nursing home for several years. That despite financial downturns for Nat due to a huge federal payola case Nat was charged in along with Kenny Gamble and several record company execs. Nat actually filed a lawsuit against the Nixon administration for the prosecution which was overturned, and died right when the legal papers were filed. Also, Nat just missed out on having the CD market available for distribution of his catalogue which would have made him a fortune. As I stated...Most of Jackie's financial problems were similar to many young, uneducated performers who spent the money they made faster than it was coming in and mistakenly believed that the money would always keep flowing. Had Jackie lived well, not blown tons of money on all sorts of things from women, children, drug abuse, and unbridled generosity, he could have had a very comfortable lifestyle secured for many years. Perhaps Nat should have been more controlling of how Jackie spent his money, but then again...your star want's something, you generally give it to them to avoid the headaches that come with an unhappy artist. Much the same with Edwin Starr who loved the idea of going to Ed Wingates house at all hours of the day or night for bundles of cash out of Ed's shoebox. Starr was happy with that arrangement and never liked the way Motown paid on a standard paycheck with taxes withheld, etc...Perhaps that's just the record business as has been mentioned here...but Nat didn't cause Jackie's heart attack, nor the risky lifestyle that led up to it...Just very sad that the music world lost such a great performer before his time had come...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    yikes..where's the movie? I know that Michael Jackson was prompted to pay attention to him, and didn't MJ pay for his funeral, or part of it?
    No Michael did not pay for Jackie's funeral. He paid for David Ruffin's funeral. He came to the funeral home a few hours before we were there.
    Last edited by marv2; 01-31-2016 at 09:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimi LaLumia View Post
    yikes..where's the movie? I know that Michael Jackson was prompted to pay attention to him, and didn't MJ pay for his funeral, or part of it?
    There was Jackie Wilson bio musical produced by the Chicago Black Ensemble Theater. I saw it at New York's Apollo Theater and it was excellent. It deserved to be on Broadway. Where is the movie???

    If my memory did not fail me, I remember reading recently that Berry Gordy bought the rights to the Jackie Wilson Story for the sole purpose of shelving it so no one could do it.

    Both Sam Cooke and Jackie Wilson have interesting stories that would make great movies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    If my memory did not fail me, I remember reading recently that Berry Gordy bought the rights to the Jackie Wilson Story for the sole purpose of shelving it so no one could do it.
    I found it. I read this article last wee and it was mentioned in the article.

    https://jackiewilsonlover.wordpress....ie-wilson-bio/

    Many note that Jackie Wilson’s life is an obvious choice for a feature film, but even documentaries have not materialized, in part because producers have had little success in securing the rights to use Wilson’s music, rights always held by Harlean Harris or the Tarnopols. According to Tony Douglas [[see below) Harris at one point planned a film, but Berry Gordy Jr quietly bought the rights to the project and immediately shelved it.

    Read the whole article . It was informative

  21. #21
    thomas96 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by milven View Post
    I found it. I read this article last wee and it was mentioned in the article.

    https://jackiewilsonlover.wordpress....ie-wilson-bio/

    Many note that Jackie Wilson’s life is an obvious choice for a feature film, but even documentaries have not materialized, in part because producers have had little success in securing the rights to use Wilson’s music, rights always held by Harlean Harris or the Tarnopols. According to Tony Douglas [[see below) Harris at one point planned a film, but Berry Gordy Jr quietly bought the rights to the project and immediately shelved it.

    Read the whole article . It was informative
    Wow, that's pretty ridiculous. Hopefully at some point if BG decides to do something with it, or after he passes, a film can be made. I think it would be a fantastic project to get Wilson and his legacy more well-known to the general public, and youth of today.

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