Diana Ross Lost Album from The Wiz to be released Nov 27

[calvin]

For the most part, I think the points made above are valid. Those who don't want to buy it as a download shouldn't. Personally, I wouldn't buy something I don't want just to support Universal Music, they're not a charity and you can't expect them to return the favour by producing a title the fans want but on which they expect to lose money.

As for myself, I didn't like it when we were only offered lossy downloads in place of cds, but as long as we can buy lossless downloads [[which have the same sound quality as the cd), I'm ok with it. In fact, I'm almost indifferent - when I have a choice between a cd and a lossless download, I might buy the download if it's significantly cheaper than the cd [[though strangely, the lossless downloads are usually more expensive than the cds in such cases). In some cases there are still issues with downloads not being made available in the UK, which is unfortunate.

If "Funny Girl" were released tomorrow as a cd, I wouldn't buy it, as I already bought the lossless download. And I guess I'm not the only one who feels this way. So now that it's been out for a while as a download, and most people who wanted it have already purchased it, don't hold your breath for the cd.

No, it doesn't cost a lot to make a cd. The marginal cost of the first cd produced is substantial [[and probably higher at Universal than at Ace), but the marginal cost of each additional unit [[for example, the extra cost of producing 3001 instead of 3000 units) should be very small. But there are still other costs with cds that you don't have with downloads, such as storing the inventory, shipping to retailers, refunding damaged items and unsold units, etc.

Universal knows their sales figures and profits from the expanded edition cds, while we can only guess. I do know that some series were cancelled due to poor sales, for example the Smokey Robinson solo album series. [[I'm happy that they completed that series with downloads!) If Universal had been making decent profits through cd sales, they wouldn't have stopped. Apparently, in the judgement of the [[business) people making the decisions, they think that downloads are the better way to go.

At the same time, note that they seem to be experimenting with a new approach through PledgeMusic with the Motortown Revue in Paris Super Deluxe Edition. So perhaps the decision to go with downloads over cds for future releases is not final [[though it apparently is final for this particular release). So far, though, they only have about 300 pledges.

[nathanj06]

This is what will "blow us away"? That depends on which way the wind is blowing. No interest whatsoever in a download of this which seems pointless. Those who like it, go for it but I gave up on any physical CDs. Randy's comment, "That's not the stand to take" is condescending and only his opinion. As many of us have seen there are some really off the wall CD releases for example, Patty Duke of all people. Yet Universal can't continue to produce a limited run of The Supremes Expanded? I said before they could have had this done long ago the same way they are doing the Marvin Gaye albums and be done with it. Who was the bigger act? I take nothing away from Marvin Gaye but this wishy washy business with The Supremes has taken it's toll. It has taken years just to get a few sets and then...nothing. They can save the downloads and this Wiz biz. Universal practically owns everything yet they can't afford limited editions of the most famous female trio's catalogue? Save it already. Rare Earth got better treatment. For those looking forward to this Wiz download...enjoy!

[marybrewster]

Universal practically owns everything yet they can't afford limited editions of the most famous female trio's catalogue? Save it already. Rare Earth got better treatment. For those looking forward to this Wiz download...enjoy!

Nathan [[and Carlo, above), I couldn't agree with you two more.

What's amazing to me is this: outside of Elvis, and the Beatles, The Supremes were the biggest group, the biggest female group, in terms of #1 singles of the entire 1960's.

You can go online right now and find every single Elvis or Beatles CD; mastered and remastered, issued and reissued, yet we're hard pressed to even get a full catalog on the Supremes? Add to it, you can walk into Target or Walmart or Macy's or Kohl's and find t-shirts, and glasses, and hats, and posters.....of Elvis. And of the Beatles. But TRY and find something Supremes related.

It's frustrating.

[carlo]

While the Supremes are up there in history with the Beatles and Elvis, The Supremes' album sales lacked in comparison, while still impressive. The biggest sellers were Greatest Hits Vol. 1 & 2, Anthology [[1974), etc. All greatest hits packages, which continue to outsell the rest of their catalog. From what I gather, their individual studio albums have never come close to reaching the numbers that the Beatles and Elvis have. Maybe it comes down to the fact that many of Motown's albums, especially the ones released in the 60's, were mainly made up of filler material. Still great songs, but most of the "filler" only appeals to the die hards. I used to blame it all on a lack of marketing on Universal's part, which could partially be the case, but I think a big part of it comes down to the material. Back in the day, millions of copies of "More Hits By The Supremes" sold because it was the only way to obtain those three big hits that had come out at the time, without buying the 45's. These days, more casual fans who bought these LP's would likely gravitate towards buying an "Ultimate Collection" or "Anthology", versus the Expanded Edition of "More Hits".

To make matters worse, so much of the music industry's attention has shifted from the artists of yesterday. In the 80's and 90's, oldies stations were all the rage. Now they have faded away. I think the only place you can still hear Motown on the radio regularly is on some of the Sirius XM channels.

[calvin]

What's amazing to me is this: outside of Elvis, and the Beatles, The Supremes were the biggest group, the biggest female group, in terms of #1 singles of the entire 1960's.

You can go online right now and find every single Elvis or Beatles CD; mastered and remastered, issued and reissued, yet we're hard pressed to even get a full catalog on the Supremes? Add to it, you can walk into Target or Walmart or Macy's or Kohl's and find t-shirts, and glasses, and hats, and posters.....of Elvis. And of the Beatles. But TRY and find something Supremes related.

It's frustrating.

Believe me, if Universal Music thought that The Supremes' albums on cd could sell as well as The Beatles or Elvis, they'd all be out there. UM has the numbers - units sold and profit - for what was released, and apparently it was not good enough for them.

As Carlo writes, even most fans are content to have a greatest hits collection, and there are plenty of those available on cd.

[marybrewster]

To make matters worse, so much of the music industry's attention has shifted from the artists of yesterday. In the 80's and 90's, oldies stations were all the rage. Now they have faded away. I think the only place you can still hear Motown on the radio regularly is on some of the Sirius XM channels.

Our "oldies station" in the Twin Cities plays primarily 80's and 90's music. It's more of an easy listening channel, than anything else. It's a hard pill to swallow when you hear a song you used to dance to in high school.....and it's considered an oldie. LOL.

Maybe the whole problem is generational. The "young teenagers" who were of the era of the 50's and 60's are slowly fading away. Some have crossed over to the digital era, but I think the majority of the "baby boomers" are set in their ways. I see it at work. I see it with my own parents. They refuse to do anything online. They couldn't tell you the difference from an ipad or a maxipad. Which is a shame because that's perhaps the biggest generation.

[carlo]

Some have crossed over to the digital era, but I think the majority of the "baby boomers" are set in their ways. I see it at work. I see it with my own parents. They refuse to do anything online. They couldn't tell you the difference from an ipad or a maxipad. Which is a shame because that's perhaps the biggest generation.

Very true, Mary Brewster. As a result of this, it's hard to imagine that these Motown digital releases are selling more or just as much as the CD's that Hip-O Select was putting out. It seems to be a vicious cycle.

[jobeterob]

Believe me, if Universal Music thought that The Supremes' albums on cd could sell as well as The Beatles or Elvis, they'd all be out there. UM has the numbers - units sold and profit - for what was released, and apparently it was not good enough for them.

As Carlo writes, even most fans are content to have a greatest hits collection, and there are plenty of those available on cd.

I agree with what Carlo and Calvin write, particularly, if the albums sold, they'd be out there. If they sold in CD format, they'd be out there; if they sold in vinyl, they'd be out there. But they aren't out there in much anymore except digital.

And as we dwindle away and as we can't cope with change, we may be losing out in the way that Randy annoyed many people in spelling out.

I also noticed that in the best available information about album sales, Stevie Wonder was only listed as selling 35 million albums which was significantly less than I would have expected.

[Guy]

Digital-only releases facilitate music piracy. No one will pay for what they can get for free. If this product were released in CD format with deluxe packaging it could be a holiday gift.

[jobeterob]

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Rare Recordings of Diana Ross Singing 'The Wiz' Classics To Be Release


ELLE BREEZY MON, NOV 16, 2015 NEWS, R&B NEWS0 COMMENTS
image: http://cdn.singersroom.com/upload/20...e-Released.jpg
Rare Recordings of Diana Ross Singing 'The Wiz' Classics To Be Released
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With NBC’s airing of “The Wiz Live!” on December 3rd, nostalgia is building for the beloved musical “The Wiz.” What better time to release some unreleased music from the 1978 film that starred Diana Ross, Michael Jackson, Richard Pryor and more?

After filming ended, Motown wanted Diana Ross to record an album of the musical’s songs and called Diana Ross Sings Songs From The Wiz. It was slated to be released in 1979 and accompany the Quincy Jones-produced soundtrack. However, the album was shelved, but according to EurWeb, it’s being resurrected from the vault for a digital release on November 27th.

The album features a booklet with never before see photos of Ross and an essay written by the reissue’s producers Andrew Skurow, George Solomon, and Harry Weinger. The album was produced by Ross, veteran Motown executive Suzanne de Passe, and Grammy and Emmy Award-winning producer and arranger Lee Holdridge [[the arranger of Ross’ hit “Do You Know Where You’re Going To?”).

According to the album’s review, Eurweb says Ross was not in the best spirts while recording due to some disagreements she had with Motown at the time, but the recordings came out great; Holdridge says she got into the character of all the characters to perform their respective songs.

“On some of the album’s songs, like the Trio Medley including ‘You Can’t Win’, ‘Slide Some Oil To Me’, and ‘I’m A Mean Ol’ Lion’, Ross almost inhabits the characters of the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion, respectively. In other cases, like “Be A Lion” and “Believe In Yourself”, Ross outdoes her own impressive work on the original soundtrack, with the former song featuring a gospel-inspired trio accompaniment as the singer delivers a stunning vocal,” the review by Michael Coleman writes.

Ross biographer J. Randy Taraborrelli says the recordings are amazing as well. “I was blown away by them because they sounded like completely unrestricted Diana Ross performances. She didn’t have to adhere to the parameters of her character in the movie or of the Quincy Jones productions on the soundtrack, or to any parameters. That’s what fans are going to love about this album: it’s a full-on, unrestricted, unfettered Diana Ross performance that’s never been heard by the general public.”

Sounds like something special!

[DianaLove]

This is the saddest thread to read.

I'm so looking forward to this release. I understand how everyone feels about the physical releases. I feel the same way. Physical is way better. As a consumer, you vote with your dollar. Normally I would stand with all of you in agreement. However I have to say, and I'm 100% sure of this. Randy is right. He is not saying what he is saying to be mean. If 1000 people buy a re-release on physical and then they move to digital only and 400-700 people buy it. No executive is searching for those missing few hundred people. The decision has been made on physical releases and it seems final. Randy is 100% correct. If the sales dip too far, they will more likely just stop doing them all together than re-assess and go back to releasing things physically.

It also makes me sad because I know that the team that works on these releases puts an incredible amount of time, passion, and love into these releases and that they wait and wait to get them green lit by the powers that be at universal. They're like parents waiting for Christmas to surprise their kids, waiting to bring this stuff to the fans. Then the fans hear what it is, or that it's not physical and are essentially like... "eh, f@#% this, I'm not interested in that hard work you put into this. It's not how I hoped it would be, so it's worthless." Imagine being those people, who are stuck between an unmoving corporate structure that doesn't care at all about the fans, and the fans that won't support anything but getting it exactly the way they want, are very harsh and vocal about it and have no actual understanding of how this industry works. To me that seems like a really rough day at work.

I know I'm probably not changing anyone's mind, but I'm gonna keep buying these, and enjoying them. Maybe by purchasing these releases we're saying that people do still care about these releases, and those numbers may encourage a third party to license this material to release as a physical release in the future, because UNI isn't doing it either way.

[marv2]

This is the saddest thread to read.

I'm so looking forward to this release. I understand how everyone feels about the physical releases. I feel the same way. Physical is way better. As a consumer, you vote with your dollar. Normally I would stand with all of you in agreement. However I have to say, and I'm 100% sure of this. Randy is right. He is not saying what he is saying to be mean. If 1000 people buy a re-release on physical and then they move to digital only and 400-700 people buy it. No executive is searching for those missing few hundred people. The decision has been made on physical releases and it seems final. Randy is 100% correct. If the sales dip too far, they will more likely just stop doing them all together than re-assess and go back to releasing things physically.

It also makes me sad because I know that the team that works on these releases puts an incredible amount of time, passion, and love into these releases and that they wait and wait to get them green lit by the powers that be at universal. They're like parents waiting for Christmas to surprise their kids, waiting to bring this stuff to the fans. Then the fans hear what it is, or that it's not physical and are essentially like... "eh, f@#% this, I'm not interested in that hard work you put into this. It's not how I hoped it would be, so it's worthless." Imagine being those people, who are stuck between an unmoving corporate structure that doesn't care at all about the fans, and the fans that won't support anything but getting it exactly the way they want, are very harsh and vocal about it and have no actual understanding of how this industry works. To me that seems like a really rough day at work.

I know I'm probably not changing anyone's mind, but I'm gonna keep buying these, and enjoying them. Maybe by purchasing these releases we're saying that people do still care about these releases, and those numbers may encourage a third party to license this material to release as a physical release in the future, because UNI isn't doing it either way.

They need to do one on the Four Tops.

[carlo]

They need to do one on the Four Tops.

Why don't you start a discussion on the Four Tops releases you would like to see? Maybe it will help generate interest.

[carlo]

Well said, DianaLove.

I for one will continue to purchase these digital releases. I prefer physical media but I will also take whatever I can get.

[SupremeBoy]

I was bored...so I created this...

[carlo]

Fantastic work, SupremeBoy!! Love it. If you don't mind, I will use this for the cover art on my iPod, once the album is available for purchase.

[Ngroove]

I am sorry - but that's just how, who, and what - I am. Even though I usually rip them into my itunes albums for my ipod anyways - there's a certain warmth of security and somehow a feeling of superior sound and substance when I have a physical CD of it - as well as holding in my hands adorable smaller versions of formely classic vinyl albums - although am aware it may be psychologically me.

BUT, just going to digital marketplace - click on "buy", download - hour one - may have a feeling of temporary enjoyment of "listening" on its too over-easiness to obtain it to do so. Hour two - onwards - it then kicks in - the shallowness, coldness, and emptiness - maybe even feeling "wasted money" on the "just not the same" feelings as buying, listening, looking, holding, treasuring, them physically.

[jobeterob]

Great cover! You should be hired!

[calvin]

Ngroove, I think you hit the nail on the head with your post.

A couple of years ago when the downloads began, some of us complained about getting lossy downloads, with audio quality inferior to a cd. Now, most of us can get lossless downloads with audio quality exactly the same as a cd, and in some cases one can even get high-resolution audio. [[But this does remain a problem for people in countries where Qobuz and Pono are not available.)

Some complained about the lack of liner notes with downloads. Liner notes will be included with this release as a pdf file, as they were with "Funny Girl" and "Baby It's Me". [[Though they are still missing for most downloads.)

So that leaves what you write - missing that warm, fuzzy feeling of holding the cd in one's hands. Others write that they need to have this on the shelf with the rest of the collection. So it's not really about the music, the audio quality, or the information [[liner notes), it's about the packaging. That's not meant to dismiss or criticize - if buying a download gives you a bad feeling, you shouldn't do it.

There are, of course, advantages to downloads - most notably the space one saves. That's not an issue for everyone, but I live in London, where space is very expensive. I wish I had the books from The Motown Complete Singles as pdf files.

For those who hold out as a protest, hoping Universal will go back to cds, I think DianaLove is right in her post above. The few hundred sales that Universal misses out on by going with downloads might not even be enough to cover the extra expense of producing the cds, and even if it is, it's not enough to make them care. They know the sales figures and profits for the last cd releases and for the downloads, and they continue to go with downloads.

[lakedistrictlad1]

Digital-only releases facilitate music piracy. No one will pay for what they can get for free. If this product were released in CD format with deluxe packaging it could be a holiday gift.

Guy...you have nailed it with your point.

I have seen every one of the recent digital only releases on dodgy websites free to download.

They are easy to find once you know where to look.

And these kind of websites render music valueless because it's free at the click of a button.

I cherish my physical expanded CD collection. I look at the packaging even when I'm not listening to the music.

IF I was to download these digital releases for free, It would sit on my hard drive and I'd probably forget about it.

And I would never think of purchasing a digital release as a gift for someone.

Universal have completely downgraded the perceived value of their product.

[calvin]

Digital-only releases facilitate music piracy. No one will pay for what they can get for free. If this product were released in CD format with deluxe packaging it could be a holiday gift.

It's also super easy for people to rip a cd and post it online, and it's being done all the time.

One thing I've noticed with cd releases of major titles - I think there are quite a few people who buy them, rip them, and then immediately sell them used over Amazon [[and by the way, that's not legal in the UK). It's amazing - a cd is just released, say for £6.99, and almost the next day someone is listing a used copy, described as "like new", for £4 or so. I believe these people get it, open it, rip it, and then put it up for sale, effectively getting themselves a cheap digital copy. The buyer of that used cd might then do the same.

That doesn't happen with these expanded editions, though. The people buying them do seem to want to hold on to their copies. Or at least they demand more money to part with it.

Some download vendors, by the way, encode information about the purchase into the digital file. So if you let your download copy loose into the internet, unaltered [[or give a copy to a friend and it later finds its way onto the internet), it could be traced back to you.

You are absolutely right, music downloads strike me as a poor gift idea. Beyond that, Amazon [[for example) warns you that you are *not allowed* to give downloaded music as a gift, and given what I wrote above about it being traced back to you... Not a good idea any way you look at it. Nevertheless, I doubt that Universal loses many sales because of this.

[jobeterob]

I got a ripped CD of Baby It's Me as a present last year ~ a legitimate one that was paid for. The booklet is printed and it's printed on nice paper. But you can't put the booklet in a jewel case and it's just not all that convenient.

Many of us are old and picky and touchy about these things.

It's a shame because the market is so fragmented and I think what is available suffers and is reduced because of these sensitivities.

But 10 years from now, many more of the artists and many more of the fans will be gone and/or buying much less.

[greg jones]

joebeterob, you've hit the nail on the head. i read research about 2 years ago on the music industry that state that most of the profits were earned by the time a release hit 35-40 years. It was something like 95% of the profit. From 40-50 years, it was less than 5%. After 50 years was practically nothing. i'm tending to believe this when very few of the younger fans coming up today even know who these artists are. There are very few around that did hear some of the music as a kid that would be interested.

To all the people that have mentioned about iTunes not supplying cd quality lossless and high-res audio, i have heard from 2 sources at Apple that they are working on that and it will happen. When it does and you've purchased the compressed, they usually have a plan for upgrading and not re-purchasing. Part of the problem with this is that i've heard the mini headphone jack that these portable device use cannot handle the high-res, so a new headphone jack has to be designed. The truth of the matter is that with high-res upgraded audio cannot be duplicated on cd anyway and has to be on a device like USB to be distributed, so high-res will end up being a download medium.

i don't know about all of You, still being very busy earning a living, i have very little time to listen to music at home like i used to in the 60's-90's. So i do so appreciate being able to have music in something like an iPhone or iPod to be able to listen to what i want to listen to as even when artists from the earlier time periods record something new, it is rarely played on radio. I appreciate being able to take the music with me and listen with headphones while working, commuting, etc.

[calvin]

To all the people that have mentioned about iTunes not supplying cd quality lossless and high-res audio, i have heard from 2 sources at Apple that they are working on that and it will happen. When it does and you've purchased the compressed, they usually have a plan for upgrading and not re-purchasing.

i don't know about all of You, still being very busy earning a living, i have very little time to listen to music at home like i used to in the 60's-90's. So i do so appreciate being able to have music in something like an iPhone or iPod to be able to listen to what i want to listen to as even when artists from the earlier time periods record something new, it is rarely played on radio. I appreciate being able to take the music with me and listen with headphones while working, commuting, etc.

I hope you're right about Apple going to lossless. But why buy from iTunes now, hoping they provide lossless later and allow you a free upgrade, when one can just buy lossless now?

Of course, one doesn't need an iPhone or iPod for listening while on the go. Android has had native support for lossless flac since 2011. Personally, though, I like to hear the sounds of the street when I'm out and about.

[jobeterob]

One further thought ~ for me, if it is a favorite from the 60's, particularly Anybody Motown, I just prefer to have it and be able to listen period.............rather than have nothing at all.

That being said, I played one of the two Baby It's Me CDS that I got as a Christmas present for about 2 weeks and then forgot I had it ~ because it doesn't have a nice jewel case slipped in with my other CDS.

[supremester]

I'm not always 1000% on board with every word JRT writes, but I do not think he was being condescending or anything other than stating the facts as he sees them. I agree with him. It's a business. They are not seeing more profit in physical releases than downloads. Perhaps they are wrong, but, as a successful business man, I can say it isn't that difficult to track profits, trends and value quotients. I'd love nothing more than physical releases on Ross' entire career including a multi disc set of just her studio chatter - ut I'll settle for what I can get. I still want the music and tho I don't understand why fans would rather not have anything than just a download - that's their choice - and so be it. The only thing is, in instances such as this, "voting with your dollars" is simply a vote against the music you love. The market is too small, the interest too narrow, to interest MCA in spending money on physical releases - they'll simply see less interest and assume they were correct. It was dwindling sales that led them to this, they'll just see the fewer downloads as that continuing thread - unhappily.

Why does Patty Duke moaning Dona Dona Dona get a physical release? Beats the hell out of me.

[jobeterob]

Agreed.

"Like"

Re: Patty Duke: Is it because it was released on a small label given away to them for pennies?

I don't know Randy. His public persona comes off as reserved and a little bit all knowing which doesn't make someone popular. And some "fans" are jealous of him ~ because there are a very very few fans that actually made a successful career of Motown ~ and Randy and Andy are at the top of that list.

[Marcus]

I understand that Universal is a massive company that has devoured many labels over the years and has many arms. It's interesting to me that Grace Jones' 1981 Island Records album "Nightclubbing" was given an expanded multi physical format release by Universal. The product was excellent, the response from fans was great and as a result Grace's first three albums were later given the same treatment, albeit in a single package. Clearly the sales are there. Why do the Island arm recognize that physical media is still viable yet those that make the decisions relating to Motown - whose classic catalog is for the most part older than Grace Jones' Island albums and would arguably appeal to an "older" market who are accustomed to and prefer physical media - insist on trying to force their customers to consume their music in a way that they just don't want to. I also find the section in the article that basically says "Universal choose to interpret your non-purchase of these downloads as a lack of interest when we know it's really because you want CDs that we don't want to give you" is both insulting and just plain bad business. Ok, for whatever reason they don't want to give us CDs. In that case, license the material to third parties who are willing to put their own money into a physical product and that way the fans get what they want and Universal are paid for very little effort. They can even still sell the title digitally if they want to. Surely this is a better option than just choosing to let this great music languish in the vaults. Universal own an amazing catalog of long out of print music yet are licensing to third parties less than ever before. Why bother acquiring so many labels to just do nothing with them. Sony are happy to exploit their catalogs however they can. Universal's whole approach just makes no sense to me!

Oh and just because you're seeing less CDs in stores does not mean people are not buying CDs online! Yes we have changed the way we buy our music but I know I still want the album "experience" that digital only will never give me.

[jobeterob]

Agreed. It makes no sense at all to have Grace Jones release physical and Diana Ross' Wiz [[released at a time of heightened intereste) digital only.

They ARE making choices and it doesn't always seem logical or rational.

[captainjames]

Any idea when if will show up on pre-order for iTunes or Amazon ?

[Marcus]

A classic label like Motown that had its most successful period over fourty years ago seems like an odd choice to force a digital only approach. It seems like a decision was made and is stubbornly being held on to at all costs. Feedback from the people who will actually spend their hard earned money on these reissues is being ignored. As someone else pointed out catalog music is all gravy anyway and I don't believe there would ever be a loss on these type of releases. Maybe Universal need to consider what a realistic profit on these types of releases is. When you consider pulling master tapes, baking, remastering, design, production and distribution verse pulling tapes, baking, remastering and selling copies of sound files it's sadly a no brainer for a big company I guess... I am just grateful the decision makers that gave us "Nightclubbing" deluxe had a more broad and fan friendly vision!

[thommg]

That being said, I played one of the two Baby It's Me CDS that I got as a Christmas present for about 2 weeks and then forgot I had it ~ because it doesn't have a nice jewel case slipped in with my other CDS.

I find that true of all the albums I put on my mp3 player [[1,970 so far). I add them and then I forget they're there. I started reviewing my cd wall to remember what cd's I actually have so I could find them on the mp3 player. The ones that are just tracks with no physical cd are a crapshoot to find.

[carlo]

Agreed. It makes no sense at all to have Grace Jones release physical and Diana Ross' Wiz [[released at a time of heightened intereste) digital only.

The difference is that "Nightclubbing" was arguably the biggest album of Grace Jones' career.

[carlo]

I don't know Randy. His public persona comes off as reserved and a little bit all knowing which doesn't make someone popular. And some "fans" are jealous of him ~ because there are a very very few fans that actually made a successful career of Motown ~ and Randy and Andy are at the top of that list.

A lot of fans do not like Randy because of his book, "Call Her Miss Ross".

[jobeterob]

A lot of fans do not like Randy because of his book, "Call Her Miss Ross".

I guess but he pretty obviously was also a fan. And he redid his book to turn it into the ultimate biography of Diana. I suppose that it is true that he aggravated some people.

I can see that his way of speaking might bother some people. What is mostly offering is just an opinion and the opinions of several people on Soulful Detroit are just as informed; however Randy comes off as the "Ultimate" fan and authority.

Occasionally, I think he buys into some of the sensationalist gossip and as we've seen over the years, a lot of it hasn't turned out to be nonsense.

[carlo]

I can see that his way of speaking might bother some people. What is mostly offering is just an opinion and the opinions of several people on Soulful Detroit are just as informed; however Randy comes off as the "Ultimate" fan and authority.

That's true, Rob. I think some of us Diana fans can be overly zealous and when someone tries to assert themselves as "the fan of all fans", people cannot stand it. I personally could care less one way or the other, but I can also see why some are so against Randy. I like his second book much more, as it is balanced and presents the ultimate version of Miss Ross' story, to-date.

[Jimi LaLumia]

I had suggested here,years ago, that the label should get the expanded editions into physical record locations like Walmart, Barnes & Noble etc which they were not, which was just ridiculous.. then they cry about low sales figures.. I had even suggested that they advertise these editions in the Playbill booklets for Motown: The Musical which, of course, they did not, and I even suggested that they place copies for sale in the lobby where the Musical was playing and again, NO! outside of message boards like this, and an ill placed Marvelettes review in Rolling Stone [[the readers of which are more interested in Taylor swift), the label did none of these things to capitalize on sales, and the non-sell out status of MOST of these editions [[besides Where Did Our Love Go and Jean Terrell Years) is why they will not invest in physical copies anymore.. the cost of a digital placement is nothing.. the label decisions were made by morons

[jobeterob]

I had suggested here,years ago, that the label should get the expanded editions into physical record locations like Walmart, Barnes & Noble etc which they were not, which was just ridiculous.. then they cry about low sales figures.. I had even suggested that they advertise these editions in the Playbill booklets for Motown: The Musical which, of course, they did not, and I even suggested that they place copies for sale in the lobby where the Musical was playing and again, NO! outside of message boards like this, and an ill placed Marvelettes review in Rolling Stone [[the readers of which are more interested in Taylor swift), the label did none of these things to capitalize on sales, and the non-sell out status of MOST of these editions [[besides Where Did Our Love Go and Jean Terrell Years) is why they will not invest in physical copies anymore.. the cost of a digital placement is nothing.. the label decisions were made by morons

It does seem like there is a little bit of a lack of imagination.

[jobeterob]

That's true, Rob. I think some of us Diana fans can be overly zealous and when someone tries to assert themselves as "the fan of all fans", people cannot stand it. I personally could care less one way or the other, but I can also see why some are so against Randy. I like his second book much more, as it is balanced and presents the ultimate version of Miss Ross' story, to-date.

Randy seemed to drop the sensationalist bullshit the second time around; he dropped questionable sales information which would need to be updated anyway; and he dropped a lot of hearsay which is unreliable and inadmissable in Court ~ but that bullshit will sell copies when you are a "big name" and in 1989, the Miss Ross book was about a big name.

The second one is down to earth and as good a biography of her as exists.

[Jimi LaLumia]

he was also angry [[rightfully so) when she did not approve of this 'adoration' book being released..http://www.ebay.com/itm/Diana-by-J-R...p2047675.l2557
"Call Her Miss Ross" was, I believe, his "Italian" coming out,the 'revenge', something I can relate to very well.. he apparently, as we all do, eventually got over it.. I am a Randy fan..

[jobeterob]

It would have annoyed me too to have my fan book ignored. I never understood that before or forgot

[djessie]

Well said Marcus!

[jobeterob]

Anyways, it will be great to hear these new versions! Something new!

[Guy]

The difference is that "Nightclubbing" was arguably the biggest album of Grace Jones' career.

I think Marcus' point is very well-taken when you consider the lavish 3-CD "Disco" box set. It's a CD reissue of Grace's 3 'disco' LPs, which were not strong sellers and probably don't have much contemporary appeal. However, her remaining fanbase, and the musiclovers who are likely to discover her, will appreciate the beautiful packaging and the extensive liner notes. Moreover, it is a sign that the artist and/or the product has enough artistic and cultural merit to warrant a deluxe package. That alone will make it feel 'necessary' to music consumers who may not be very familiar with the artist or the product. I've bought 2 to give as Xmas gifts to folks who will love to receive it even if they don't know much about Grace Jones.

The idea of throwing PREVIOUSLY UNRELEASED music from DIANA ROSS recorded during her hitmaking prime at MOTOWN into the street by way of digital-only release is appalling. There is no rationale for it whatsoever. It's disrespectful to the artist and her fans. You cannot gift a digital download to your 68 year old aunt who doesn't have an MP3 player, rarely uses her computer but still plays her 40 year old vinyl everyday. Does someone think this project has some special appeal to consumers who buy their music digitally? No, they expect Diana Ross fans [[and fans of the "The Wiz") to buy this product. What the digital-only release signals to me is that someone somewhere determined it is a mediocre product that does not warrant a proper release.

[jobeterob]

You have a point.

Perhaps they hope that someone will make a CD for the grandmothers and grandfathers and print up the booklet for them. And they hope there are committed faithful and new lovers of the Wiz. The Wiz sure is getting an amazing amount of advertising.

But it is apparent that in some quarters, as some companies, there is not this move to digital only. And if Grace Jones can be released on a physical CD, surely virtually any Motown act should be able to.

The review by Mr. Coleman, likely a fan, was as good as you can get.

[skooldem1]

The Wiz [[the movie) will air tonight on TVone with an encore showing overnight. It will also air twice on Thanksgiving.

[midnightman]

I agree with Marcus. Universal just don't care.

[Marcus]

I think Marcus' point is very well-taken when you consider the lavish 3-CD "Disco" box set. It's a CD reissue of Grace's 3 'disco' LPs, which were not strong sellers and probably don't have much contemporary appeal. However, her remaining fanbase, and the musiclovers who are likely to discover her, will appreciate the beautiful packaging and the extensive liner notes. Moreover, it is a sign that the artist and/or the product has enough artistic and cultural merit to warrant a deluxe package. That alone will make it feel 'necessary' to music consumers who may not be very familiar with the artist or the product. I've bought 2 to give as Xmas gifts to folks who will love to receive it even if they don't know much about Grace Jones.

The idea of throwing PREVIOUSLY UNRELEASED music from DIANA ROSS recorded during her hitmaking prime at MOTOWN into the street by way of digital-only release is appalling. There is no rationale for it whatsoever. It's disrespectful to the artist and her fans. You cannot gift a digital download to your 68 year old aunt who doesn't have an MP3 player, rarely uses her computer but still plays her 40 year old vinyl everyday. Does someone think this project has some special appeal to consumers who buy their music digitally? No, they expect Diana Ross fans [[and fans of the "The Wiz") to buy this product. What the digital-only release signals to me is that someone somewhere determined it is a mediocre product that does not warrant a proper release.

Thanks Guy, that's exactly the point I was making. Do the modest selling disco albums, or Grace Jones' biggest seller, warrant a multi format physical release - "Nightclubbing" is available as a single CD straight reissue, deluxe two disc release, blu ray audio disc and vinyl - while an unreleased Diana Ross album does not? Universal had to have been happy with the "Nightclubbing" sales to follow up with the disco box. The question is, would they be happy for a Diana Ross reissue to do the same numbers?

Something I did not consider with my original post is that the Grace Jones reissues came out in the UK, NOT the US. It's clear that the decision makers for Universal in other territories still see the value of a physical release. Look at the Japanese CD market. Universal Japan are constantly churning out CDs of catalog music [[but they are rarely deluxe however).

I think if we get a CD release of lost album at all it will be as a Japanese import.

[jobeterob]

George Solomon posted on Facebook that they have not given up on getting physical releases yet.

[Jimi LaLumia]

so is this a real thing, actually happening, or what?