The myths of motown-vol-1

[arr&bee]

No not the title of a book, but just recollections from anyone about stories down through the years..like diana's fued with gladys horton and diana almost hittng her with the car,gladys says it never happened,what cha got?

[Philles/Motown Gary]

I remember reading [[most likely in Martha's book "Dancing In The Steet : Confessions Of A Motown Diva") that when Martha recorded "The Hurt Is Over" from The Vandellas' "Natural Resources" album on Gordy, Berry showed up at the recording session and told Martha to "Sing It Like Diana!" [[Ouch!)

[kenneth]

I remember reading [[most likely in Martha's book "Dancing In The Steet : Confessions Of A Motown Diva") that when Martha recorded "The Hurt Is Over" from The Vandellas' "Natural Resources" album on Gordy, Berry showed up at the recording session and told Martha to "Sing It Like Diana!" [[Ouch!)

I would tend to believe that one, as when "Black Magic" came out it was also reported [[in GQ as I recall) that the songs had originally been intended for Diane and Martha said something like, "Evidently she didn't like them." GQ gave the album a lot of press though at the time it was previewed, it was announced as "Black Lace."

[bradsupremes]

Did Oma Page / Oma Heard get canned from Motown because they wanted her to lose weight and put her on a diet yet someone found her snacking on chocolate bars??

Did Florence really demand Berry Gordy to remove the Andantes' vocals from "The Happening?" Did the Andantes even record their vocals on the track?

And of course the infamous, could be its own thread.... Valerie Simpson singing for Tammi Terrell, but we know the truth on that.

[arr&bee]

Legend has it that when the supremes needed chorography for[stop in the name of love]melvin franklin gave em some moves,but it was actually paul.

[luke]

Isn't it odd that with Cholly around the supremes were going to walk out on British tv without choreography,?

[jboy88]

As stated in the "Where Did Our Love Go" thread, Lamont Dozier has stated that the song was intended for the Marvellettes, but Brian Holland denied the claim on the latter's Unsung doc.

[luke]

I can't keep track of who denies it and who affirms it! One of HDH has said it's true. Wanda Young quoted as saying it's true and katherine Anderson said no!

[bradsupremes]

Gladys Horton also said "Baby Love" was meant for the Marvelettes.

And didn't Cal Street or one of the Velvelettes say they were asked to record "Where Did Our Love Go?"

[motony]

over the years it went back & forth whether it was WDOLG or Baby Love. I think it was WDOLG.

[robb_k]

Did Oma Page / Oma Heard get canned from Motown because they wanted her to lose weight and put her on a diet yet someone found her snacking on chocolate bars??

Did Florence really demand Berry Gordy to remove the Andantes' vocals from "The Happening?" Did the Andantes even record their vocals on the track?

And of course the infamous, could be its own thread.... Valerie Simpson singing for Tammi Terrell, but we know the truth on that.

That would have happened in late 1963 or early 1964. And yet, she was still with Motown on an artist contract in 1965, when she was trying out to be Marvin Gaye's duet partner. So, why did she stay around Motown so long [[almost 3 years), if they wanted her to lose weight, and she didn't? It was said that one of the reasons her VIP single was "called back" [[and thus is so rare) was problems with her contract [[perhaps a weight clause?).

[TomBairdFan]

From 'The Hit Factory' article by Philip Norman in the Sunday Times Magazine, 1971 [[courtesy of The Motown Scrapbook):

''Another of Gordy's innovations - which has since lapsed - was a school within Motown to instruct his artists in manners and nice ways generally. One of the most distinguished pupils was Stevie Wonder, who has been with Motown since the age of 12. One of the failures, according to a Motown writer, was a fat girl named Oda Barr. ''She was in Vegas and they had the tapes on her in Detroit and went wild about her. They brought her up here and she weighed like 240 pounds but still they put her on a diet, they even sent her to reduction parlours. The one day someone was sent up to her hotel to get her and in her room she had... a whole box of Hershey bars. She ate herself right out of that contract.''

Myth debunked?

[jobeterob]

Mickey Stevenson says in his book that Lon Fontaine taught the Supremes their moves and that Diana stayed late, late and later ~ when the others had gone home; she learned better, faster and more.

Mickey also says there were Andantes singing background on the "behind the curtain microphone" on the Motortown Reviews and that the Vandellas helped out on the backgrounds after their set. He also says the Andantes were the best.

[robb_k]

From 'The Hit Factory' article by Philip Norman in the Sunday Times Magazine, 1971 [[courtesy of The Motown Scrapbook):

''Another of Gordy's innovations - which has since lapsed - was a school within Motown to instruct his artists in manners and nice ways generally. One of the most distinguished pupils was Stevie Wonder, who has been with Motown since the age of 12. One of the failures, according to a Motown writer, was a fat girl named Oda Barr. ''She was in Vegas and they had the tapes on her in Detroit and went wild about her. They brought her up here and she weighed like 240 pounds but still they put her on a diet, they even sent her to reduction parlours. The one day someone was sent up to her hotel to get her and in her room she had... a whole box of Hershey bars. She ate herself right out of that contract.''

Myth debunked?

I remember that story now, and the name, "Oda Barr". It makes more sense that Oda Barr was the person from the real incident, and her name "Oda" got confused with "Oma" of Oma Heard/Page. THAT is the most likely, as Oma Heard/Page lasted with Motown at least 3 years.

[arr&bee]

Remember the story of flo and berry crossing swords, when he told the primettes to come back after high school and flo took excecption,well it never happened according to jeannie bradford.

[arr&bee]

How's this for a myth buster...according to the holland bros.[and they should know]the supremes first million seller[where did our love go]the one that was turned down by the marvelettes,well guess what it was never meant for them eddie and brian say that it was written for the supremes all along although as everyone knows they had mary in mind for the lead...well how about that!!!

[Ngroove]

I believe this one I've previously asked some time ago was just as answered some time ago - but I still believe what's been told time and again, that after Mary Wells left Motown, Berry Gordy's pressuring against the radio DJs from the playing of Mary's subsequent singles, just so they don't have any "competition" - is kinda vindictive and jerkish.

[arr&bee]

But the dj's had the last laugh when some years later certain motown songs didn't get played,because the black dj's felt that berry had sold out.

[midnightman]

I believe the Holland brothers when it comes to WDOLG. They were so passionate about the song as if they knew it would be a smash.

[daviddesper]

Did Florence Ballard's story about being served steak tartar really happen?

[arr&bee]

According to mary it did,and it's very funny.

[luke]

Lol. I also thought the story about Flo telling Mary she'd better call her Miss Flo and Mary saying you'd better call me Miss Mary and don't you forget that honey which I read in two books..is hysterical.

[supremester]

I believe Lamont when he says it was meant for The Marvelettes. I believe him that he had Diana sing it in Gladys' key. No one has ever said it was written for Mary - only in her book did she say Eddie suggested her on it in the studio, but Briana and lamont said no. No one would have written for Mary because Gordy had already said Ross was the sole lead vocalist. Mary simply did not have a radio friendly sound for 1964.

How's this for a myth buster...according to the holland bros.[and they should know]the supremes first million seller[where did our love go]the one that was turned down by the marvelettes,well guess what it was never meant for them eddie and brian say that it was written for the supremes all along although as everyone knows they had mary in mind for the lead...well how about that!!!

[supremester]

I'm sure Berry would have tried if he could to slow Mary down, but he had no clout in 1964. Zero. A year later - yes. 2 years later, definitely. Plus, Mary's records were just so/so - there was nothing to hold back. As Jerry Wexler said, everyone tried to get a hit on Mary but no one could find a sound for her except Smokey Robinson. If the man who made Aretha The Queen Of Soul says Queen Mary was hard to produce, I believe him.

I believe this one I've previously asked some time ago was just as answered some time ago - but I still believe what's been told time and again, that after Mary Wells left Motown, Berry Gordy's pressuring against the radio DJs from the playing of Mary's subsequent singles, just so they don't have any "competition" - is kinda vindictive and jerkish.

[bradsupremes]

I believe Lamont when he says it was meant for The Marvelettes. I believe him that he had Diana sing it in Gladys' key. No one has ever said it was written for Mary - only in her book did she say Eddie suggested her on it in the studio, but Briana and lamont said no. No one would have written for Mary because Gordy had already said Ross was the sole lead vocalist. Mary simply did not have a radio friendly sound for 1964.

Actually in the Band of Gold / Invictus-Hot Wax documentary on YouTube, Eddie Holland states he wanted Mary to sing it.

[bradsupremes]

And where did Jerry Wexler say that?

[arr&bee]

Whoa...i'm talking about-mary wilson brian wanted to use her on the lead,but eddie reminded him of berry's orders.

[bradsupremes]

Whoa...i'm talking about-mary wilson brian wanted to use her on the lead,but eddie reminded him of berry's orders.

Maybe it was Brian... Oh it was one of them.

[theboyfromxtown]

It was Eddie and not Brian that wanted Mary to sing WDOLG. Here is the proof from Eddie's own mouth at about 5:00

http://www.windycitylive.com/episode...olland/9545787

[theboyfromxtown]

Legend has it that when the supremes needed chorography for[stop in the name of love]melvin franklin gave em some moves,but it was actually paul.

Melvin came up with the suggestion to adopt the policeman road control hand signal "Stop!".

[arr&bee]

Legend has it that when jr.walker first walked into the hitsville office he was almost thrown out,because he looked too country.

[motony]

I don't buy that about Jr. Walker, the Gordys already knew him as he was on Harvey & Gwens label that merged with Motown.

[Ngroove]

On my tour of the Motown Museum / Hitsville USA building, the tour guide, in the tiny Gordy Family living quarters, pointed to a couch that has been "slept on by Marvin Gaye", for the ladies.

[arr&bee]

I didn't say i believed it,but it was said some years back in an interview.

[144man]

There seems to be a generally held view that the subject of "I'm Living In Shame" is the same person as in "Love Child". Is there any reason to believe this myth?

[midnightman]

^ Maybe it's because the lyrics were similar??? IDK...

[midnightman]

Martha loves telling the story of how she had recorded Dancing in the Street and she thought she had aced it only to be told by Mickey Stevenson that he forgot to hit record which led Martha to angrily re-record the vocal, which is what we hear today.

But I often wonder if Martha exaggerated the story and that Mickey did record the first version but told Martha to re-record them because he felt it was too chipper?

[supremester]

I believe it also cos it has an old HDH feel about it that I can see Gordy would have wanted on it. Actually, I think he was right.

I had no idea GQ covered Black Magic - do you recall anything it said? I LOVE that album, and I certainly believe a lot of those tracks were cut for Ross. We know Bless You was written and produced for Martha, but I can see No One There, Benjamin and most of the others intended for Diana. I'm so glad Martha cut them - her vocals are killer on the entire album.

[arr&bee]

Benjamin was pure martha[it wouldn't have worked with diana]if not martha then[dionne]just listen!!

[arr&bee]

Aren't legends fun...like the one about[marvin gaye iii]legend has it that his birth mother is one[denise gordy]anna's niece, who has the scoop on it,maybe i'm late to the party..hip me!

[marv2]

Whoa...i'm talking about-mary wilson brian wanted to use her on the lead,but eddie reminded him of berry's orders.

That is true that Brian Holland originally wanted Mary Wilson for the lead on "Where Did Our Love Go?". They compromised in a way as the finished record always sounded like a duet of Diane and Mary to me.

[midnightman]

Aren't legends fun...like the one about[marvin gaye iii]legend has it that his birth mother is one[denise gordy]anna's niece, who has the scoop on it,maybe i'm late to the party..hip me!

The myth is that MG was the son's biological dad but someone at the MG board opened up about Denise having a teenage boyfriend at the time she got pregnant with MG III. Everyone around Detroit knew MG III had a different daddy when MG, Jr. and Anna adopted him and named him after Marvin.

The only books indicating MG was the father was Steve Turner's Trouble Man and Eric Michael Dyson's Mercy Mercy Me, which really regurgitated Steve's book. Others clearly state MG III was adopted and wasn't MG, Jr.'s and Anna's biological child.

[arr&bee]

Guess we'll never really know.

[marv2]

Guess we'll never really know.

Marvin III was a Gordy on his biological mom's side.

[midnightman]

Yeah Denise is his mother. But MG is not the dad [[adopted father, yes).

[144man]

My two favourite Motown Myths: Myth Brenda Holloway and Myth Kim Wethton.

[johnny_raven]

Call her Myth Ross

[westgrandboulevard]

I wouldn't have Mythed any one of them, for the world