First Motown Record [[before "Bad Girl")?

[robb_k]

According to a Richard "Popcorn" Wylie discography, the follwing 2 cuts on Australia's and New Zealand's Leedon Records in 1959 were also on an unnumbered Motown 45, ostensibly before TLX2207, "Bad Girl" by The Miracles, which came out in September of 1959. Here are scans of the Leedon sides:

I looked up the record and songs on "Don't Forget The Motor City", and they weren't listed. I looked up the songs on BMI.com and ASCAP.com, and the songs weren't listed. I never saw nor heard those 2 cuts on tapes or acetates in The Motown Vault, or on any official or unofficial Motown recordings or record list. They do sound like 1959 Motown recordings, with Popcorn playing the piano, and someone sounding like Beans Bowles on the sax.

[mysterysinger]

Leedon seems to to have been an Oz/New Zealand version of a London or Stateside label. Some indication here that it was a Motown side without catalogue number....http://www.45cat.com/record/ls577

[robb_k]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5xDmOvKfbQ<a href="https://youtu.be/I5xDmOvKfbQ" target="_blank">

[marv2]

Wow! Now this is news to me! I never heard of anything recorded and released by Motown before the Miracles "Bad Girl". Thank you Robb!

[robb_k]

Leedon was Australian record label owner Lee Gordon's label. It has been surmised that Gordon, while in Detroit in 1959, visited Motown, and apparently, liked "Rumble", and leased the 2 cuts from Motown, for immediate release on his Australian and New Zealand labels [[or, he got it from promoter, Mickey Schorr, who sent him to Motown). Either he had a connection in Detroit, from whom he was referred to Motown, or while there, he heard "Rumble" played on the radio. The rumour is that a small press run of unnumbered pink Motown pressings were made to hand out to DJs. I really wonder if "Rumble" was played at all by Detroit DJs. IF so, Gordon may have heard it on the radio. Do any of you old-time Detroiters remember hearing "Rumble" by Popcorn Wylie on the radio in summer 1959?

[robb_k]

Leedon seems to to have been an Oz/New Zealand version of a London or Stateside label. Some indication here that it was a Motown side without catalogue number....http://www.45cat.com/record/ls577

I really doubt that Leedon was a subsidiary of UK London or UK Stateside. It appears that Lee Gordon was an independent Australian record company owner who operated labels in Australia and New Zealand, and leased overseas product from both The UK and USA. He may have had distribution agreements with UK labels for distributing their product in Australia and New Zealand, and his labels' releases were likely mainly leased overseas product, rather than domestic Australian and New Zealander productions.

[robb_k]

I find it interesting that neither song has rights owned by Jobete, Bengal, Fidelity, Ro-Gor, Stein and Van Stock, or any Motown-related music publisher, currently listed
on BMI.com or ASCAP.com., and even more interesting that Australian label-owner, Lee Gordon, listed himself as co-writer of the two songs [[together with Popcorn Wylie) on the pressings of his New Zealand [[and likely his Australian) releases. THAT makes me wonder if he did that as he was giving Wylie his only chance to get artist publicity and songwriter royalties, as this was the two cuts' only commercial release [[e.g. Motown never released this record).

[robb_k]

Here's the 2nd cut's video:

[keith_hughes]

Hi Robb

My only contrib to this thread is another negative. I can't find the song in the Library of Congress song catalog either! It would seem that the tune was not copyrighted at all in the USA.

I see the record at 45cat.com [[http://www.45cat.com/record/ls577) where the two sides are credited to Wylie alone [[despite the label scans showing two names)! The suggestion there that it was pressed up to test the sound at the new Hitsville studio is certainly plausible, but that it was intended in some sense as the first Motown single seems less likely to me. I don't think Gordy would have launched his second label with a completely unknown artist. The Miracles - who had had two 45s on a nationally distributed label [[End) - seem more likely candidates to me. Just an opinion.

I suspect that if anyone still around knows about this, it will be Al Abrams. I'll drop him a line and point him at this thread.

Best
Keith

[robb_k]

Thanks, Keith. I agree with you that I don't think those 2 cuts were pressed on The Motown imprint. I think they w2ere just test recordings. the interesting question is how and why Lee Gordon got a hold of them, and if he actually paid for the right to release them Down Under. Maybe Al Abrams knows a connection between Mickey Schorr and Motown, and between him and Gordon. I'm pretty sure Al will remember when Gordy bought out Bristoe Bryant's equipment, and Robert Bateman and others set up Motown's first in-house studio. It stands to reason that they would test its recording quality. The rumour may have been a misunderstanding based on people thinking that Gordy set up the studio before starting Tamla Records, and the quote about "first "Motown" record meant first Motown company record [[meaning Tamla), and guessing that these cuts were made before Tamla's first release [["Come To Me" by Marv Johnson. Perhaps they didn't know that the first Tamla recordings were made at United Sound Studios, Bristoe Bryant's and a few at others, before Bryant's equipment was bought, in late summer, 1959.

[marv2]

Thanks, Keith. I agree with you that I don't think those 2 cuts were pressed on The Motown imprint. I think they w2ere just test recordings. the interesting question is how and why Lee Gordon got a hold of them, and if he actually paid for the right to release them Down Under. Maybe Al Abrams knows a connection between Mickey Schorr and Motown, and between him and Gordon. I'm pretty sure Al will remember when Gordy bought out Bristoe Bryant's equipment, and Robert Bateman and others set up Motown's first in-house studio. It stands to reason that they would test its recording quality. The rumour may have been a misunderstanding based on people thinking that Gordy set up the studio before starting Tamla Records, and the quote about "first "Motown" record meant first Motown company record [[meaning Tamla), and guessing that these cuts were made before Tamla's first release [["Come To Me" by Marv Johnson. Perhaps they didn't know that the first Tamla recordings were made at United Sound Studios, Bristoe Bryant's and a few at others, before Bryant's equipment was bought, in late summer, 1959.

Great information Robb and thank you. I did know that some of the earliest recordings were done at United Sound. I also heard some were done at a studio in Chicago. I can't remember the name at the moment.

[robb_k]

I know that Berry Gordy sent Smokey to get strings recorded by Riley Hampton at Universal or RCA in Chicago. I don't remember them recording vocals there. Ollie McLaughlin was the major Detroit producer who recorded in Chicago.

[keith_hughes]

Until Motown engaged the services of Gordon Staples and the DSO, most Motown recordings requiring strings were cut in either Chicago or New York. But typically the artists recorded their vocals there too. Among the many were the Miracles, Supremes, Marvelettes, Marvin, Kim, and Stevie.

I'm not sure which studio in Chicago was preferred, but I have a feeling it was Universal. Bobby Rogers of the Miracles recalled working there.

[robb_k]

Until Motown engaged the services of Gordon Staples and the DSO, most Motown recordings requiring strings were cut in either Chicago or New York. But typically the artists recorded their vocals there too. Among the many were the Miracles, Supremes, Marvelettes, Marvin, Kim, and Stevie.

I'm not sure which studio in Chicago was preferred, but I have a feeling it was Universal. Bobby Rogers of the Miracles recalled working there.

I am sure that Universal was used more than any of the other Chicago studios by Motown in the early days.

[robb_k]

We have an e-mail in to Al Abrams, to see if he remembers anything about these recordings. Clearly they were just demos to test the newly acquired recording equipment, and the rumour about them being pressed on an unnumbered pink Motown 45 issued before The Miracles' "Bad Girl" is inaccurate, based on misconceptions and quotes taken out of context. I'm wondering if Wylie just sold the tapes to that Australian guy, because Gordy had no plan to use them for anything.

[keith_hughes]

I wrote to Al, and he has replied: "I knew Popcorn early on and used to hang out with him, and yes, Rumble sure sounds familiar, but I am unaware of any discussion about releasing it." So the jury is still out. I hope someone sends them in coffee and sandwiches, I kind of feel it could be a long wait ...

Meantime, check out Al's new website for his latest venture: www.motownblackwhite.com . Cool design, and it looks like there will be a very interesting exhibition to visit in 2016.

[keith_hughes]

I wrote to Al, and he has replied: "I knew Popcorn early on and used to hang out with him, and yes, Rumble sure sounds familiar, but I am unaware of any discussion about releasing it." So the jury is still out. I hope someone sends them in coffee and sandwiches, I kind of feel it could be a long wait ...

Meantime, check out Al's new website for his latest venture: www.motownblackwhite.com . Cool design, and it looks like there will be a very interesting exhibition to visit in 2016.

[robb_k]

Can we ask Al what Mickey Schorr [[Shorr)'s connection was with Motown, and the Detroit R&B and Soul music scene?

[stalebagel]

Hello Robb:
Mickey Shorr -- whose name lives on today at the ABC Warehouse appliance chain's car audio stores -- was a WXYZ disc jockey who took a real interest in furthering Detroit music. It was Mickey who sent my friend Sanford Freed and I to see Berry at 1719 Gladstone because he knew Berry was looking for someone to drive his artists to record hops. Mickey Shorr is terribly underrated as a key player in Motown history. He deserves far greater recognition. Thanks for asking about him.

[robb_k]

Thanks Al. We always like to hear from the people that were there at the tome this great music was made.

[marv2]

Hello Robb:
Mickey Shorr -- whose name lives on today at the ABC Warehouse appliance chain's car audio stores -- was a WXYZ disc jockey who took a real interest in furthering Detroit music. It was Mickey who sent my friend Sanford Freed and I to see Berry at 1719 Gladstone because he knew Berry was looking for someone to drive his artists to record hops. Mickey Shorr is terribly underrated as a key player in Motown history. He deserves far greater recognition. Thanks for asking about him.

Hey Al how are you? Marv

[robb_k]

Detroit rocker Johnny Powers [[also on Motown at one time), was managed by Micky Shorr. Lee Gordon released on his Leedon Label a 2 45s by him "Mama Rock" and "Indeed I Do" under the moniker Johnny "Scat" Brown. Flipside of both were different artist. Aus/NZ Festival distributed Leedon and later fully took over Leedon as Lee Gordon had continual money problems.

Micky Shorr was most likely the source of the Popcorn Wylie tracks, and Lee Gordon was from Detroit

Micky Shorr was a popular DJ on Detroit radio station WXYZ. He knew many of the early Motown staff and artists. He probably knew Gordon as well, and turned Gordon onto the fact that Gordy wasn't going to use Wylie's 2 demos for anything [[knowing that Gordon was trying to promote recordings, and get into the music business. Maybe he did that on behalf of Wylie, so Popcorn could get the cuts released}.

[stalebagel]

Marv: Call or email me whenever you get a chance.

Robb: Your thesis about Mickey Shorr sounds plausible especially given the lack of any concrete evidence to the contrary. But you've got to separate Mickey's activities in the then-fledgling Detroit music scene from his time as a DJ to his post-radio efforts. In other words, he wasn't an Alan Freed.

[marv2]

Marv: Call or email me whenever you get a chance.

Robb: Your thesis about Mickey Shorr sounds plausible especially given the lack of any concrete evidence to the contrary. But you've got to separate Mickey's activities in the then-fledgling Detroit music scene from his time as a DJ to his post-radio efforts. In other words, he wasn't an Alan Freed.

I will call you today!

[robb_k]

I had another thought about all this. Popcorn recorded for Johnnie Mae Matthews' Northern Records near the beginning of 1960. Berry Gordy was friendly with Popcorn, and used his band on some sessions in 1959. And, he easily could have been asked by Berry to test the new equipment he bought from Bristoe Bryant in late 1959 [[as Al Abrams has attested). But, like other recording session musicians at that time, I believe he did NOT have a contract with Tamla, or Motown, and so, was free to sell his songs to anyone he chose. Furthermore, the recordings were test recordings, and not really finished. So Berry didn't want them. And, as the main purpose was just to test the equipment, Gordy probably made the deal with Popcorn that the latter could keep the tapes afterwards, and do what he pleased with the music and the songs rights. THAT, must certainly be why those 2 songs weren't published by Jobete Music, as Gordy was very careful to keep all rights possible, after getting none or very little of the money from record sales when having his songs pressed and distributed on other people's labels [[such as George Goldner's End/Gone/Mark-X and Vega, and Robert West's Kudo, and Atlantic and Chess, etc.).

We should ask Al if, indeed Popcorn Wylie was only first signed to an exclusive artist and songwriter contract in 1960, after his contracts with Johnny Mae Matthews lapsed, and if he had only been hired by Gordy on individual projects before that, like having his band play on sessions. I don't remember Wylie having any writing credits on a Jobete song as early as 1959 [[nor any songs by Popcorn and his band or himself as a solo during 1959). I think the first [["Money") was early 1960.

[stalebagel]

Robb:
Congratulations on another highly plausible scenario.
Alas, I can't be certain about when Popcorn surfaced, although I know it was early on -- and indeed that might just be 1960. Wish I could be more specific.

[Roger Polhill]

Popcorn`s first release was Motown 1002A. "Custer`s Last Man" [[Wylie/ Gordy/Robinson) Aug. 1960, with Motown 1002B. "Shimmy Gully" [[Wylie/Cheddarsamjun)
Incidently I found that Leedon Records released Clarence Paul`s Hanover single "I Need Your Loving" as LS 557 in 1959.

[keith_hughes]

Here’s Popcorn, speaking to “Blackbeat” magazine in an interview that appeared in 1985:

I went with Motown Records in 1959, as an A&R director and band leader. I took the first Motown revues out, and did some records, backing.

We recorded on a two-track machine. I got there when they were cutting “Money”. I played on “Please Mr Postman” and “Shop Around”, playing piano, and did the backing vocals on “Bye Bye Baby”.

Janie Bradford, who co-wrote “Money” and was there on the session – at Hitsville – told us [[for TCMS) that Barrett Strong played piano on the track. The record was released in August 1959. To be fair to Popcorn, he doesn’t claim he played piano himself, only that he was at Motown when it was cut.

It’s part of the “legend” of “Shop Around” that when Berry called an impromptu 8 a.m. session to rec-cut the song [[when the original was already in the shops), the piano player didn’t show up, so he played piano himself. But Popcorn might have played on the original version.

Popcorn’s first single, “Custer’s Last Man”, was issued in August 1960. “Shop Around” and “Bye Bye Baby” were released the following month, and “Please Mr Postman” in October 1961.

[robb_k]

Yes, Keith, I KNEW that Popcorn was with Motown in early and mid 1959. What is critical, is whether or not he was a FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE of Tamla. I rather doubt that Berry had many of those before very late 1959, or the beginning of 1960.

As Popcorn recorded "Pretty Girl" for Johnnie Mae Matthews near the end of 1959, and it was released on her Northern Records in early 1960, I'm guessing that Wylie worked with Motown on a piece-by-piece basis, getting paid for each individual project. That would explain why the 2 cuts he made for Berry Gordy to test the new equipment he'd bought from Bristoe Bryant in mid 1959 were not published by Berry's Jobete music.

The fact that those 2 recordings [["Rumble" and "The Wolf Man") were so rough and sound unfinished leads me to believe that the agreement between Wylie and Berry Gordy stipulated that Wylie would keep the recordings, and rights to them, and the rights to the songs. Gordy just wanted to find out what quality sound he'd get from the new equipment. Wylie wouldn't get paid cash for his band's playing, and wouldn't get paid for singing, but he'd have the recordings to use as a demo for his band's work, and be able to publish the music of his 2 songs, and would be able to shop the 2 cuts to a record company to possibly put out a record. It seems clear that Gordy preferred to not have to pay cash to Wylie for his session, rather than own the songs and the recordings. Wylie then shopped the cuts around, probably meeting Lee Gordon through Mickey Shorr.

Gorden was a Detroiter, who had some connections to Australia, and had seen that there was a big desire and demand for "Rock & Roll" music there. He saw a big opportunity, to fill that demand with already produced American recordings, and acted as a conduit for the flow of that music into Australia. Wylie probably leased the two cuts to Gordon, who released them on his labels in both Australia and New Zealand. Naturally, they didn't produce a hit there, as the recordings were only demo quality. But, they had a decent amount of sales [[for that market), because of the dearth of genuine Rock & Roll there, which only had a few locals mimicking the American style, and went crazy over anything remotely authentic [[e.g. US recorded).

I still don't believe the rumour that there was a Motown unnumbered pressing of these 2 cuts, given that they were only demo quality, not published by Jobete, Bengal, Fidelity or Ro-Gor Music, and no one has ever seen any listing of those cuts or a 45 in any of the official records, nor even seen a tape or acetate or demo record of it in The Motown Vaults, otr anywhere in the company. I think that some collectors/fans made the assumption that that recording was made by Wylie after he had signed an artist contract with Motown, and was scheduled to record for the new Motown subsidiary. But, the recording was made in later-mid 1959 [[when Gordy bought out Bristoe Bryant's studio equipment, and while Wylie was still working for other clients [[JMM and others) and playing on sessions all over Detroit. I am sure that Berry had decided to start his first subsidiary label [[Motown), at least partly inspired by the awaited lapsing of his Miracles' contract with George Goldner's End Records, and bringing them into the fold of his own record label. He must have planned to use his most polished artists as headliners for the new label, which occurred in September, 1959.

I'd bet the farm that Wylie's recordings were made a few months before, and that he had no plans for a Wylie release before that of The Miracles. It just so happened, that Bad Girl had local sales at a critical time when Berry didn't have the cash to press enough copies to meet regional demand, and as Chess was a national distributor, he decided it was better to have a national hit on a leased record than to not even meet local and regional demand for a record to which he kept the full rights.

So, this Leedon Record, having no US release, is just a minor sidelight of Motown Apocripha. It is less a Motown record than The Velvelettes on IPG, or Wade Jones on RayBer, or late Marv Johnson releases on UA, but more a Motown record than Herman Griffin on House of Beauty.