June 3rd: Get ready for an Ike Turner "Unsung"...

[midnightman]

Since Ike Turner's history can't be fully condensed in one hour, TV-One's "Unsung" will try to do it [[plus commercials) on June 3rd.

I have my issues with Ike but I want to tune into this. Ike's history has never been fully told, I don't think.

[robb_k]

Ike was operating his band from the late 1940s. - long before he hired Tina.

[RobertZ]

I will also watch; he was talented, influential, and a monster. I personally saw Tina with visible bruises. The "hired Tina" remark is uncalled for.

[midnightman]

^ Yeah there are people who have horror stories of seeing Tina all bruised up during performances. It'll be interesting to see what spin Unsung gives this.

[jboy88]

What I'd like to know is why are they doing an "Unsung" on Otis Redding? He might of been unsung prior to his death, but he's a revered legend now! right up their with Hendrix, Elvis, etc! I would of gone with Sam & Dave or Joe Tex personally. Or, produce a spinoff telling the stories of artist who have maintained notoriety outside the R&B world.

[imnokid]

Ike Turner was at the forefront of rock n roll, and a musician's musician. There would never have been a Tina Turner if not for Ike. He put their entire show togethere.

[marv2]

Ike Turner was at the forefront of rock n roll, and a musician's musician. There would never have been a Tina Turner if not for Ike. He put their entire show togethere.

I can almost guarantee they are going to try to make him look like an asshole. I hope not, but...............

[midnightman]

What I'd like to know is why are they doing an "Unsung" on Otis Redding? He might of been unsung prior to his death, but he's a revered legend now! right up their with Hendrix, Elvis, etc! I would of gone with Sam & Dave or Joe Tex personally. Or, produce a spinoff telling the stories of artist who have maintained notoriety outside the R&B world.

I guess the producers of TV One feel, like the O'Jays, that Otis don't get enough credit. *weird shrug*

That one confused me too.

[Guy]

I can almost guarantee they are going to try to make him look like an asshole. I hope not, but...............

I think he WAS an asshole. Many people who he worked with and around would testify to that. It is not unheard of that a person's massive talent and ingenuity could be eclipsed by their despicable conduct and depraved heart.

[midnightman]

Ike Turner was at the forefront of rock n roll, and a musician's musician. There would never have been a Tina Turner if not for Ike. He put their entire show togethere.

I don't know if you or anyone on Soulful Detroit ever got a chance to read about a friend's thoughts on Ike. His name is Steve Leigh and he was a keyboardist for the I&TT Revue off and on for seven years between 1969 and 1976.

http://www.sl-prokeys.com/ike/iketurner.htm

What he shares is very interesting, including the only incident he recalled seeing Ike being abusive to Tina [[spoiler: no physical violence but a lot of verbal name calling).

He's got like four pages on Ike, you have to read it carefully though. Lots of info. I wonder if he'll be on the show? He was white btw.

[Roberta75]

I think he WAS an asshole. Many people who he worked with and around would testify to that. It is not unheard of that a person's massive talent and ingenuity could be eclipsed by their despicable conduct and depraved heart.

Ike Turners a despicable pig and I hope he made peace with his maker before he left this here earth. Any man that beat a woman to a pulp is pure scum. He may have been a great musician and made great music but hes a real low down coward imo just like Pedro Ferrer and any other man that beat a woman to a pulp. and I hope Pedro ferrer ask the Lord above to forgive what he did to Mary Wilson.

Roberta

[marv2]

I think he WAS an asshole. Many people who he worked with and around would testify to that. It is not unheard of that a person's massive talent and ingenuity could be eclipsed by their despicable conduct and depraved heart.

I know what you mean. It is the exact same case as with Diana Ross!

[midnightman]

To be fair, I think the reason Ike's mistreatment of women gets looked more than James Brown's, for instance, is because of the woman Ike mistreated was another famous singer [[one he helped to make famous but still). And the fact that Tina described such graphic details in the book, no wonder Ike is looked on as some kind of Beelzebub...

[phil]

You're right Midnightman, and the movie didn't arrange things.

Marv : "I can almost guarantee they are going to try to make him look like an asshole. I hope not, but.............."

I agree marv, Unsung always insist on the tragedic and sensational, it's their trademark.

[supremester]

They need to go for the drama to get an audience, but guys who beat women, or anyone who bullies IS an asshole. Maybe a talented asshole, but, more than anything, a chickenshit asshole. I hope Unsung just concentrates on the music career but has a crawl at the bottom calling him a rotten, wife beating asshole so everyone will get what they want.

[marv2]

They need to go for the drama to get an audience, but guys who beat women, or anyone who bullies IS an asshole. Maybe a talented asshole, but, more than anything, a chickenshit asshole. I hope Unsung just concentrates on the music career but has a crawl at the bottom calling him a rotten, wife beating asshole so everyone will get what they want.

Like when Diane tried to run over Gladys Horton of the Marvelettes and that little blind boy named Lee. Or when she picked and picked with Lala Brooks until Lala jumped up to beat her behind?

[Roberta75]

Like when Diane tried to run over Gladys Horton of the Marvelettes and that little blind boy named Lee. Or when she picked and picked with Lala Brooks until Lala jumped up to beat her behind?

Everybody please please please dont answer him. In his own sick head he thrive on attention so lets not buy into it.

thank you

Roberta

[glencro]

Looking forward to the episode

[midnightman]

They need to go for the drama to get an audience, but guys who beat women, or anyone who bullies IS an asshole. Maybe a talented asshole, but, more than anything, a chickenshit asshole. I hope Unsung just concentrates on the music career but has a crawl at the bottom calling him a rotten, wife beating asshole so everyone will get what they want.

That's probably what they'll do but I think they're going to go into the movie aspect. But to be fair, a lot of our musical geniuses have mad issues. Then again, it's not easy to predict how this will turn out.

[midnightman]

As I mentioned before, Steve Leigh presents some unknown stories about what he saw behind the scenes between I&TT, from what he described in this e-mail, all that went on was a verbal argument between the Turners, of course this was just one incident:

Steve Leigh says:

In the 1970s, we were in the studio cutting rhythm section tracks. Few people know that Ike was out of his head when he got coked up in the studio. Actually, we all were. By that I mean we HAD the song, but he'd change parts, redo things that were already fine, snort more, and after 38 different clavinet parts [[for example), we'd RECUT the same Goddamn part that was the original. I can't easily portray the environment - there was always an ounce or two of coke at the end of the recording console, and we dipped in constantly - CONSTANTLY. Everything made sense, yet recording was unreal. It was as if Ike could not stop searching for "that part". Jackie [[Clark - guitar) would record a part. Ike loved it. 20 minutes later, Ike wanted to change it just a little, so Jackie changed it. Within an hour, the original part felt better, and Ike wanted to recut the original part. Soko [[Richardson - drums) had to deal with the same uncertainties. I remember one session when Soko disappeared. He might have gone upstairs to get some sleep, I don't know. Ike came out of nowhere - he wanted a hi-hat [[open/close thing) - so I played it. But this was crazy - we weren't doing drum or percussion parts at the time, we were doing *keyboard tracks*. Maybe I'm saying Ike's mind - musically - flew around like a jet. If it came into his head - no matter what it was - we had to get it on tape instantly. Am I making any sense?

So back to the story. Most of the band had been in the studio for about 3 days. I don't think we ate any food, but a lot of coke keeps you from getting hungry. Maybe we all had a few sodas, but somebody might have gone out and brought back $100 worth of hamburgers, that's how Ike was in the studio. He was focused on a song, and sent somebody out to get something if we got hungry. The point is, once we were "flowing", we lived that song for however many days it took. Try and imagine yourself inside this bubble of intensity. Nobody knew if it was day or night - no windows in a studio, no clock. It might be Wednesday or Thursday. Who cares?

Enter Tina:

Tina came into the studio. "Ike, I just made up some soup. You want some?"

First of all, that was a mistake, and everybody in the band knew it. Sessions with Ike were like surgery in an operating room: DO NOT DISTURB, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, FOR ANY REASON.

Everybody knew that, Tina did, too.

Ike: "No."

But it didn't stop.

Tina: "Ike you haven't eaten for 3 days. I'll bring some soup down here for you and the guys."

Ike: "No."

Tina: "It won't take but a few minutes, y'all can have some fresh soup. Jackie? Sandy? You want some soup?"

By now, everybody in the band is looking at walls and the ceiling. Something is happening here, somebody is stepping across the line.

After another 4 or 5 tries, Ike finally exploded. By now, we'd all forgotten the groove we were in, and the Goddamn song might as well have been called "Soup".

Ike got up, went face to face with Tina, and called her every name in the book. [[This is where I'm leaving out the words. You just imagine the worst, and add 100) Then he invented some names. She tried backtalking him and he threw her [[not physically, but threateningly) out of the Goddamn studio.

THAT IS *THE* MOST VIOLENT EPISODE I EVER REMEMBER with Ike and Tina. But if you've read this far, then let me explain a fact or two.

Tina craved attention. She couldn't stand it when we were in the studio and she was ignored for a few days at a time. She'd do anything for attention - good, bad, or whatever. If one of us went out of the studio to the bathroom, she'd start talking - not wanting us to go back in the studio. She NEEDED attention all the time.

This caused a lot of problems.

Take what I write seriously.

Steve "Sandy"

[RobertZ]

I don't know if you or anyone on Soulful Detroit ever got a chance to read about a friend's thoughts on Ike. His name is Steve Leigh and he was a keyboardist for the I&TT Revue off and on for seven years between 1969 and 1976.

http://www.sl-prokeys.com/ike/iketurner.htm

What he shares is very interesting, including the only incident he recalled seeing Ike being abusive to Tina [[spoiler: no physical violence but a lot of verbal name calling).

He's got like four pages on Ike, you have to read it carefully though. Lots of info. I wonder if he'll be on the show? He was white btw.

I never saw my mother and father have sex; does that mean I don't exist?

[midnightman]

People have had different stories about I&TT. Either they were violent equally, violent one-sided [[i.e., Ike) or just cordial. Their story is very complex but obviously it was too volatile for either one's own good.

[marv2]

People have had different stories about I&TT. Either they were violent equally, violent one-sided [[i.e., Ike) or just cordial. Their story is very complex but obviously it was too volatile for either one's own good.

Look, only the most naive would take the film "What's Love Got to Do with It" [[1993) as the Gospel truth about the lives of Ike and Tina Turner. I will be blunt. Tina was not a punk! People with nerve would ask, " Why did Tina stay with him for so long?" The answer is because she was just as gangster, just as tough as Ike Turner was [[talk to some of the former Ikettes if you want an ear full,...).

Tina knew Ike was super talented and she was learning from him. I knew many girls, women when I was growing up that were hardcore alley cats [[including more than a few from Detroit that these guys are still fawning over). Tina once actually dared one of Ike's girlfriends that was holding a gun on Tina to SHOOT! Tina dared her to "do it"! The woman shot herself in the head instead committing suicide right there and Tina barely batted an eye!

[midnightman]

^ That woman was allegedly Lorraine Taylor, the mother of two of Ike's eldest sons, Ike Jr. and Michael Turner, whom Tina later became stepmother to. According to Tina, when Lorraine confronted her with the gun, she did as you said she did. When Lorraine saw that Tina wasn't gonna back down, Lorraine allegedly told her "you ain't even worth the bullet" and shot herself instead. In the film version, they made Tina the fraidy cat and Lorraine went into a room to shoot herself. Ike rushed to see Lorraine bleeding and picked the gun but immediately dropped it because he was afraid the East St. Louis cops [[and we know how racially motivated some cops can be) would think HE had something to do with Lorraine being shot. Luckily, for all involved, Lorraine survived her attempted shooting. She remained in Ike Turner's house after that and even patched things up with Tina. After I&TT moved to California, Lorraine sent the boys to live with them and Tina's son Craig and I&TT's son Ronald.

Speaking of the Ikettes, one of them [[I think it was Ann Thomas, who later married Ike after the divorce from Tina; they didn't stay married long) said that when the Turners had that fight with the Black Panthers in Oakland, Ike was getting his a$$ whooped and Tina stood in front of Ike to protect him, they ended up snatching her wig off and all that mess...

The Ikettes [[and Ike) used to say Tina would go to bat for any of them. If one of them was out of line with Ike, Tina would often be the one to throw a beatdown to them. Staying with Ike for 18 years [[1958-1976) taught Tina a lot. But I also think growing up in the outskirts of Tennessee also helped. Both I&TT were street smart folks.

[brother_love]

I watched this episode several times over the weekend and was wondering if anyone can fill me in on when Linda Williams was an Ikette, I never heard of her? It was good to see Claudia Lennear on the show at least there was one Ikette was representing that I was familiar with.

[midnightman]

^ I'm anxious to see it tomorrow. We have to remember that after a certain amount of time, the Ikettes became a revolving door of singer-dancers [[after the original Ikettes left; Robbie Montgomery, who later did that OWN Reality Show whose name escapes me now, was an original Ikette). It probably wouldn't surprise me if she wasn't on it. She was one of the ones Tina turned to when she ran from Ike in July 1976 [[Tina finally showed her gratitude to what Robbie did for her during the Oprah interview).

What I'm interested in is how they're gonna depict Tina and Ike as individuals...

[reese]

I watched this episode several times over the weekend and was wondering if anyone can fill me in on when Linda Williams was an Ikette, I never heard of her? It was good to see Claudia Lennear on the show at least there was one Ikette representing that I was familiar with.

Linda Williams was an Ikette in the mid70s, I would say. She is pictured on the cover of the Ikettes' GOLD AND NEW album. She can also be seen in a Midnight Special appearance where the Revue performed I CAN'T TURN YOU LOOSE and WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM MY FRIENDS.

[midnightman]

It's revealed here that the two men who introduced coke to Ike in Vegas were Redd Foxx and Elvis:

http://blackamericaweb.com/2015/06/0...im-to-cocaine/

[brother_love]

Reese, the Ikettes that were on that cover were [[l-r) Ann Thomas, Debbie Wilson & Linda Sims. The lady on the show is not one of those girls. Maybe she's one of the girls in the small b&w photo you see on the cover. lol

Linda Williams was an Ikette in the mid70s, I would say. She is pictured on the cover of the Ikettes' GOLD AND NEW album. She can also be seen in a Midnight Special appearance where the Revue performed I CAN'T TURN YOU LOOSE and WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM MY FRIENDS.

[brother_love]

No Robbie is not on t his show and is only seen in photos and a video clip from Hollywood a Go Go doing Fool In Love. Claudia Lennear was the only well none Ikette on the show.

^ I'm anxious to see it tomorrow. We have to remember that after a certain amount of time, the Ikettes became a revolving door of singer-dancers [[after the original Ikettes left; Robbie Montgomery, who later did that OWN Reality Show whose name escapes me now, was an original Ikette). It probably wouldn't surprise me if she wasn't on it. She was one of the ones Tina turned to when she ran from Ike in July 1976 [[Tina finally showed her gratitude to what Robbie did for her during the Oprah interview).

What I'm interested in is how they're gonna depict Tina and Ike as individuals...

[marv2]

^ That woman was allegedly Lorraine Taylor, the mother of two of Ike's eldest sons, Ike Jr. and Michael Turner, whom Tina later became stepmother to. According to Tina, when Lorraine confronted her with the gun, she did as you said she did. When Lorraine saw that Tina wasn't gonna back down, Lorraine allegedly told her "you ain't even worth the bullet" and shot herself instead. In the film version, they made Tina the fraidy cat and Lorraine went into a room to shoot herself. Ike rushed to see Lorraine bleeding and picked the gun but immediately dropped it because he was afraid the East St. Louis cops [[and we know how racially motivated some cops can be) would think HE had something to do with Lorraine being shot. Luckily, for all involved, Lorraine survived her attempted shooting. She remained in Ike Turner's house after that and even patched things up with Tina. After I&TT moved to California, Lorraine sent the boys to live with them and Tina's son Craig and I&TT's son Ronald.

Speaking of the Ikettes, one of them [[I think it was Ann Thomas, who later married Ike after the divorce from Tina; they didn't stay married long) said that when the Turners had that fight with the Black Panthers in Oakland, Ike was getting his a$$ whooped and Tina stood in front of Ike to protect him, they ended up snatching her wig off and all that mess...

The Ikettes [[and Ike) used to say Tina would go to bat for any of them. If one of them was out of line with Ike, Tina would often be the one to throw a beatdown to them. Staying with Ike for 18 years [[1958-1976) taught Tina a lot. But I also think growing up in the outskirts of Tennessee also helped. Both I&TT were street smart folks.

So you understand when I say that Tina Turner was no shrinking violet to put it mildly. I've been to where Tina grew up outside of Memphis. I use to date a girl from there.

[midnightman]

Thanks for clarifying, brother_love. Didn't think she would, heard she didn't like Ike one minute. Robbie must've been the inspiration behind the "Jackie" character in What's Love.

[midnightman]

So you understand when I say that Tina Turner was no shrinking violet to put it mildly. I've been to where Tina grew up outside of Memphis. I use to date a girl from there.

Knowing her parents had an abusive relationship and her family was sometimes volatile, I'm sure she was used to it. Remember, Ike actually saved her from Raymond Hill after Hill kept beating her up. I'm told the reason Hill's leg was broke in that fight that led to him going back to Clarksdale to heal was because Ike and several Kings of Rhythm musicians confronted him about it and in turn gave him a horrific beating. Ike also allegedly pistol-whipped Raymond during the fight. Tina was too familiar with it, maybe that was one reason she got the heck out of Dodge in July 1976. She knew that life for 36 years.

[reese]

Reese, the Ikettes that were on that cover were [[l-r) Ann Thomas, Debbie Wilson & Linda Sims. The lady on the show is not one of those girls. Maybe she's one of the girls in the small b&w photo you see on the cover. lol

Looking at the Linda Williams on the UNSUNG Black Panther clip, and the woman on the GOLD AND NEW album cover, I think they are the same person.

By the 70s, Ann was working wardrobe, I believe, but had not been an Ikette since she gave birth to Ike's child in the late 60s.

[midnightman]

Yeah, I don't think Ann rejoined the Ikettes after she had Mia Turner in '68. Linda Williams might've been going by the name Linda Sims at the time since she probably wasn't married when she joined the Ikettes.

And the I&TT Revue got the Panthers-organized gig in Oakland around '69-'70 [[I forgot the exact year, but I think it was before they released Proud Mary).

It should be noted that Ike Turner himself came from a terrible background. Obviously life for a black boy raised in the Deep South in the 1930s and 1940s is gonna include a lot of ugly episodes:

*Seeing your father at the age of 5 getting beat mercilessly by whites all because you was with a white woman.
*Being molested three times between ages 6 and 12 by much older women [[and trying to make it seem like you consented).
*Having to see your stepfather abuse your mother and your only option was to hit a brick at him.

And whatever else went on that shaped Ike to what he became once he and Tina [[or Anna Mae Bullock when she met him) met in 1958.

I don't know how much they'll cover in an hour but I have a feeling I'm gonna enjoy it regardless of my personal feelings that he shouldn't have hurt the people closest to him [[i.e., Tina).

In fact, from what I gather from I&TT's Revue members, Tina was a ride and die chick for a long time until she can no longer take it with Ike's out of control cocaine habit.

[brother_love]

Resse, I do believe that you are correct about Linda Williams. I looked a bit closer at my LP cover and looked at her face, as I did with UnSung. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Claudia Lennear even said that she had Ann Thomas kinda looks. The other two ladies on the cover are the correct names I posted.
Have you ever notice how Linda looks like she only has one leg since she's sitting on the other? Enjoy the show and post your thoughts.

Looking at the Linda Williams on the UNSUNG Black Panther clip, and the woman on the GOLD AND NEW album cover, I think they are the same person.


By the 70s, Ann was working wardrobe, I believe, but had not been an Ikette since she gave birth to Ike's child in the late 60s.

[RobertZ]

Interesting that out of 36 replies NONE are about Turner's musicianship!

[midnightman]

I read on his Wikipedia entry that Ike wrote at least 78 hit singles for Modern Records [[or the Bihari brothers as Ike said). He was also a talent scout and helped B.B. King and Howlin' Wolf get record deals.

[phil]

Here is the program, more in Ike's favor than I feared it :

http://tvone.tv/20703/unsung-full-episode-ike-turner/

[RobertZ]

I read on his Wikipedia entry that Ike wrote at least 78 hit singles for Modern Records [[or the Bihari brothers as Ike said). He was also a talent scout and helped B.B. King and Howlin' Wolf get record deals.

I think [[as a long-time I&TT Review fan - saw them live 6 times) that a lot of Ike's accomplishments are true, and a lot are exaggerated / illusory. We hear figures like "78 known for retitling songs of others and crediting them to himself as well as re-recording his own songs under different song titles. My take is that he was a talented guy, best as bandleader and guitarist, who would have remained mostly a local hero had he not met and teamed up with one of the most dynamic performers ever.

[RobertZ]

Here is the program, more in Ike's favor than I feared it :

http://tvone.tv/20703/unsung-full-episode-ike-turner/

Cool - I'll watch. Thanks!

[marv2]

This is one of the few Unsung episodes where I feel that they did more than a decent job. Ike Turner is a legend!

[motony]

I thought it was done pretty good and focused more on Ikes' talents.I met Ike & Tina several times in late 60's early 70's and they were both always very warm & nice to me.

[RobertZ]

A whitewash and, except for the clips with Tina, a waste of time. Interesting to learn, I guess, that Ike's treatment of women was not his fault as he was sexually abused as a child by women, and his drug addiction was not his fault but rather the fault of Redd Foxx and Elvis Presley, and his relapse was not his fault but the fault of shady characters in a crack house he visited to rescue a friend. Yeesh. Closing words? "Karma's a b!t5h" !

[marv2]

A whitewash and, except for the clips with Tina, a waste of time. Interesting to learn, I guess, that Ike's treatment of women was not his fault as he was sexually abused as a child by women, and his drug addiction was not his fault but rather the fault of Redd Foxx and Elvis Presley, and his relapse was not his fault but the fault of shady characters in a crack house he visited to rescue a friend. Yeesh. Closing words? "Karma's a b!t5h" !

What about Karma? You mean because he got old and died? Guess what RobertZ? You are going to die and so will I one day. Ike was 84 years old. I hope I reach that age.

[midnightman]

I think [[as a long-time I&TT Review fan - saw them live 6 times) that a lot of Ike's accomplishments are true, and a lot are exaggerated / illusory. We hear figures like "78 known for retitling songs of others and crediting them to himself as well as re-recording his own songs under different song titles. My take is that he was a talented guy, best as bandleader and guitarist, who would have remained mostly a local hero had he not met and teamed up with one of the most dynamic performers ever.

TBH, they both uplifted each other: Ike was a local musical phenomenon and Tina was just a local girl from St. Louis by way of Nutbush and together they built an empire that led to the world discovering them and then the later career ascent of Tina.

[midnightman]

What about Karma? You mean because he got old and died? Guess what RobertZ? You are going to die and so will I one day. Ike was 84 years old. I hope I reach that age.

84? Ike was born in 1931 and died in 2007 [[76). Where you'd get 84 from?

[marv2]

84? Ike was born in 1931 and died in 2007 [[76). Where you'd get 84 from?

Maybe I got his age confused with someone else....STILL at 76, he lived a good long life bearing mind all that he went through in life. Biblically speaking we are only to expect 3 Score [[60 years) and 10 for a total of 70 years. Ike's karma is unknown to me so I can't speak on it. Robertz seems to have the inside track on what karma did to Ike.

[Roberta75]

A whitewash and, except for the clips with Tina, a waste of time. Interesting to learn, I guess, that Ike's treatment of women was not his fault as he was sexually abused as a child by women, and his drug addiction was not his fault but rather the fault of Redd Foxx and Elvis Presley, and his relapse was not his fault but the fault of shady characters in a crack house he visited to rescue a friend. Yeesh. Closing words? "Karma's a b!t5h" !

Im real glad I didnt watch this RobertZ. Beating and bruising up a woman is the lowest thing a man can do and theres NO excuse for it ever imo.

Fondly,

Roberta

[Roberta75]

What about Karma? You mean because he got old and died? Guess what RobertZ? You are going to die and so will I one day. Ike was 84 years old. I hope I reach that age.

Oh Lord your math is real off. He didnt die this year marv2. Ike Turner probably went to HELL imo unless he repented almost 8 years.

Roberta