70's Supremes If Whitfield Stayed

[Jimi LaLumia]

I wonder from time to time if Norman Whitfield had stayed at Motown... those songs that went to Rose Royce.. Car Wash... Wishing On A Star.. Love Don't Live Here Anymore..etc. might they have gone to the 70's lineup if he stayed?

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Jimi, Norman Whitfield's productions were hot! His unique style might very well have been the perfect musical shot-in-the-arm that The Supremes needed to put them back on the charts.

[BayouMotownMan]

Tons of names were dropped back in the 70s when it came to producing the Ross-less Supremes, but Whitfield was never one of them. I don't see his productions fitting into the Supremes style. They were elegant soul and his style was raunchy, often drug-referenced material. He did great work for sure, especially on Undisputed Truth.

There was some false promotion when it came to promoting his work on Yvonne Fair. She claimed she was the first female artist he had produced. Not true, Kim Weston was.

[sup_fan]

interesting idea. he was probably a bit too gritty for the girls. like the idea of Rick James working with Diana lolol

i think the Stevie material was strong and too bad they didn't work with him earlier and more. i think that was "funk" enough without breaking the Sup glam image too much. i know some people aren't Floy Joy fans but i do really like the lp. i think jean's lighter approach and softness is wonderful. yes she can rip it out and and tear apart a song. but not every song requires a full gospel-church approach. and when she sang something as simple as I Guess I'll Miss or some of the FJ tracks, she's delicate and lovely.

i hated that Frank Wilson didn't stay on. would love to have seen where they might have gone after Touch.

i do have to say that i don't know about Jean and disco. just like i think Jean owned Stoned Love and Ladder, i think Scherrie owns Walking, Wheel and Let Yourself Go. not sure what a Jean-led sups would have done with disco

[BayouMotownMan]

Oh I think Jean could've handled disco just fine. Case in point: That's the Way Love Grows from her solo lp. Supremes sounding mixed with disco. Then there was the recently released Drumming a Beat an Do You Believe In Love At First Sight

[marv2]

Jean Terrell could have done Disco while watching her soap operas and baking a pie! Disco would not have posed any type of challenge to Jean Terrell. She was just that versatile vocally!

[Jimi LaLumia]

I mention Whitfield in the context of his signed group Rose Royce..don't know how you all are drawing grit and funk from that.. much better songs than the 70's Sups had..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGYpc7AuQjQ

[BayouMotownMan]

I do think Billie Calvin would have made a good Supreme. She had the voice and actually resembled Jean a little. But I think she had issues that would have prevented this happening. As Whitfield's girlfriend perhaps he would have taken an interest in the group.

[Jimi LaLumia]

the string of Rose Royce hits would have been astounding Supremes material and there was nothing gritty, druggie, or anything of the other stuff listed above in these hits..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5gFAiPJhvI

[Jimi LaLumia]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EO1nfSCKrU

[jillfoster]

I agree. While Whitfield's style was harder edged, it doesn't mean the man can't tailor a song to a specific group. Who says that Whitfield didn't have a softer side that he expressed with those Rose Royce hits? I really think that "It's All Been Said Before" should have been released a single, and they needed to record an entire album with Lambert and Potter. They were hot at the time and had such an infectious pop sound.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Jimi, you’re absolutely right -- Norman Whitfield’s beautiful ballads would have been perfectly-suited to the 70's Supremes style and image.

And BayouMotownMan and sup_fan, I have to agree that some of Whit’s harder-edged tracks wouldn’t be appropriate for the New Supremes. I would never match the girls with a funky rocker like Yvonne Fair’s "Walk Out The Door If You Wanna" [[although I really love that track and always have).

But, overall, I’ve gotta go with what Marv said. Jean could sing a disco track with her hands tied behind her back. I could easily imagine Jean handling "Car Wash" with no problem at all. And I’ll bet that Jean – and even Scherrie – could tackle the Undisputed Truth’s "You + Me = Love" with no problem at all. In fact, I can hear the girls’ 3-part harmonies tearin’ up the chorus as we speak! [[In Rochester, NY, "You + Me = Love" was a floor filler for whites as well as blacks back in the day. I think the public would have accepted The Supremes’ version of that song with open arms, as well as Norman’s other productions.)

[Philles/Motown Gary]

I agree. While Whitfield's style was harder edged, it doesn't mean the man can't tailor a song to a specific group. Who says that Whitfield didn't have a softer side that he expressed with those Rose Royce hits? I really think that "It's All Been Said Before" should have been released a single, and they needed to record an entire album with Lambert and Potter. They were hot at the time and had such an infectious pop sound.

Jill, The Supremes’ [[MSC) "It’s All Been Said Before" was released as a single here in the U.S. [[Motown 1350) b/w "Give Out, But Don’t Give Up", although it was not a hit. I’m not sure it even got any airplay. It’s a shame because I love that track. And I, too, would have loved to hear a full album produced by Lambert & Potter. Their productions on Tavares and Dusty Springfield were taylor-made for those artists, as was their lone track [[that we know of) on The Supremes.

[sup_fan]

Philles - It's All Been Said was not released as a single. it was intended to be the first single from Supremes 75 but was pulled and replaced with He's My Man. apparently Pedro and Mary insisted that the singles more prominently feature Mary, which added to the angst between them and motown. Motown wanted to push Scherrie as lead.

[Philles/Motown Gary]

Philles - It's All Been Said was not released as a single. it was intended to be the first single from Supremes 75 but was pulled and replaced with He's My Man. apparently Pedro and Mary insisted that the singles more prominently feature Mary, which added to the angst between them and motown. Motown wanted to push Scherrie as lead.

By golly, sup_fan, you’re right. I thought that I had remembered "It’s All Been Said Before" being released as a single. And I even looked it up in my copy of "Heat Wave: The Motown Fact Book [[complete Motown discography) just to verify that my memory wasn’t experiencing another Senior Moment. There it was, plain as day – "It’s All Been Said Before [[Motown 1350). Now that you’ve pointed it out, however, I realize that there was no date of release listed beside it. You’re absolutely correct – "It’s All Been Said Before" was scheduled for release and even assigned a Motown number, but then canceled. I stand corrected – sup_fan AND jillfoster.

[sup_fan]

i do think it should have been released as a single. i liked the pop sound of it and some of the other tracks - You Can't Stop a Girl, Color My World Blue, etc

[Philles/Motown Gary]

i do think it should have been released as a single. i liked the pop sound of it and some of the other tracks - You Can't Stop a Girl, Color My World Blue, etc

Yeah, sup_fan -- me, too. And "Where Do I Go From Here" and "Where Is It I Belong". Overall, it was a great album.

[TomatoTom123]

Sorry for bringing up this old thread but I was reading through it and saw THIS!

I do think Billie Calvin would have made a good Supreme. She had the voice and actually resembled Jean a little. But I think she had issues that would have prevented this happening. As Whitfield's girlfriend perhaps he would have taken an interest in the group.

I had never heard that Billie Calvin and Norman Whitfield were in a relationship before...? Is this true?! I had no idea.

[Bluebrock]

Philles - It's All Been Said was not released as a single. it was intended to be the first single from Supremes 75 but was pulled and replaced with He's My Man. apparently Pedro and Mary insisted that the singles more prominently feature Mary, which added to the angst between them and motown. Motown wanted to push Scherrie as lead.

This is true. Scherrie was a far better vocalist than Mary, and Motown wanted to relaunch the group with Scherrie out in front. Understandably Mary demanded a bigger share of the lead vocals, but this caused a big rift with Motown. It is hard to say whether IABSB would have been a hit but it sure as hell was a great pop song with a terrific vocal by Scherrie. He's my man was also a great song, and Mary and Scherrie sounded good together, but i would have prefered to have heard more of Scherrie on it.

[sup_fan]

I agree. I think it would have been fine with more of a shared lead situation. And Cindy should have had some lines too. But agree scherrie should have been featured more on He's My Man. But the lyric of that song frankly are rather ridiculous. Not as bad as I'm Living in Shame but not the strongest

I do think some Whitfield might have helped rejuvenate the Jean lineup. I do like Bad Weather and think it's a great track. But I think part of the problem w the song is it's not hummable. Jean is too all over the place w the lead melody and most people can't sing along w her. That's typically the appeal of a song - belting it out in the car or at home while doing the ironing lol. When singing it live - its fine for her to go to town. But on the 45 she should have sung it more straight

[Ozmo]

I wonder from time to time if Norman Whitfield had stayed at Motown... those songs that went to Rose Royce.. Car Wash... Wishing On A Star.. Love Don't Live Here Anymore..etc. might they have gone to the 70's lineup if he stayed?

It's interesting to note that in her book 'Berry,Me and Motown' Raynoma Gordy Singleton states that when she was working for Motown in the mid 70s she signed up a young songwriter named Miles Gregory who had a song in progress which was eventually called 'Love Don't Live Here Anymore'. However, before he had time to complete the song, much to Ms Ray's disgust, his contract with Motown was not renewed. Norman Whitfield later heard the song and the rest is history!