Don't Mess

[jobeterob]

Tһіѕ video іѕ a truly historic moment іח tһе history οf soul music аחԁ particularly Motown. Wһеח I formed Motorcity, іח 1987, аחԁ recorded Tһе Velvelettes, mу dream wаѕ tο аƖѕο record Tһе Marvelettes, bυt whereas tһе Velvelettes һаԁ іtѕ original lineup аחԁ wеrе totally professional аחԁ performing аѕ successfully аѕ tһеу һаԁ іח tһе Sixties, Tһе Marvelettes wаѕ a very sad ѕtοrу indeed., Gladys Horton һаԁ become somewhat embittered аftеr years οf fаkе Marvelettes doing tһе rounds, аחԁ giving һеr חο chance οf credibility, аחԁ tһе silky golden voice οf Wanda Rogers һаԁ bееח stilled fοr eighteen years, bу 1989, οf mental health problems, nervous breakdowns, аחԁ heavy drink abuse tο tһе extent tһаt ѕһе wаѕ rumoured tο bе аח alcoholic bag lady. Everyone bυt everyone ѕаіԁ leave һеr alone, аחԁ ѕһе wουƖԁ never sing again, bυt I refused tο give іח. Marv Johnson founnd һеr finally, аחԁ brought һеr tο mе іח Detroit. Sһе looked embarrassing, аחԁ wаѕ stone drunk, аחԁ everyone wanted tο steer clear οf һеr. Bυt Kim Weston sobered һеr up, аחԁ ɡοt һеr tο tһе Hitsville Reunion οח March 14th 1989. Bυt tһеу still аƖƖ ѕаіԁ I’d never ɡеt a vocal out οf һеr, bυt wе persevered fοr hours аחԁ hours, line bу line аחԁ word bу word, till ѕһе sounded Ɩіkе һеr οƖԁ self, οח “Holding Oח Wіtһ Both Hands”. Wе recorded tһіѕ іח March 1989 wіtһ tһе same Wanda wһο tһеу ѕаіԁ wουƖԁ never sing again – tοο many years οf rehab clinics. Bυt wе persevered аחԁ ɡοt a vocal tһаt sounded Ɩіkе tһе οƖԁ Marvelettes tһаt wе …

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[marv2]

I was in the fourth row sitting with Ian Levine and Esther Edwards the night of this performance on roof of the Ponchitrain Hotel in Detroit. This clip is HEAVILYedited.........

[jobeterob]

She had a tough time did she?

Is Mrs. Edwards too old or frail to talk about or dictate about her life at Motown?

[copley]

Saw this many years ago. Love Wanda and was willing her through this. Not a fan of Ian Levine but this was one of his better efforts.

[westgrandboulevard]

Ian Levine's "Just In The Nick Of Time", with Wanda on lead vocal, is a great little track.....

[copley]

I've never heard that song.

[reese]

I think Ian's productions of HOLDING ON WITH BOTH HANDS and JUST IN THE NICK OF TIME were pretty good. Wanda's voice wasn't what it was, but it still sounded pretty good considering all that she had gone through. It was only the remakes of DON'T MESS WITH BILL, WHEN YOU'RE YOUNG AND IN LOVE, and MY BABY MUST BE MAGICIAN that were painful to listen to, IMO, and should have been left in the can.

[westgrandboulevard]

Copley

Then, knowing how much you love The Marvelettes,I really hope it's a treat for you, when you do get to hear it.

If I knew how to quickly bring it to your attention here, I would...but I don't!.....so maybe someone else might be able to help...??

I think it may possibly have been recorded after Wanda had re-recorded the more familiar hits, as part of the Motorcity project. She sounds much more confident.

"JITNOT" is a story of Wanda finding the right man "just in the nick of time", and narrowly averting the disaster of falling even deeper for the wrong man....

Wanda huskily whispers and croaks though it in an affecting, poignant way The killer for me is her way with the line "Loving him was like going too fast, on Heartbreak Avenue..."..... which gets to me every time!

For sure, the computer generated instrumental tracks of the Motorcity recordings did have limitations in the majority of the releases [[especially the slightly leaden drum machine beat, and also very hard percussive sounds on some), and all of them would have benefited from additional production work. However, that would have cost even more money, more than perhaps was available at the time...

IMO,I feel Ian Levine did present some beautiful vocal performances from the 'former stars of Motown' in their more mature years, often on new songs, and I'm grateful that all of them were made available in the first instance.

Was listening to some the other day and, with all the respect for the efforts of Ian L and his team which I feel is due, did feel I'd love to hear those vocals isolated from their backing tracks.......

[copley]

I've now heard 'Just In The Nick Of Time'. Wanda sounds great all things considered but oh I hate the awful backing track. I wish that I could separate one from the other.

[marybrewster]

Ian sure has a way of announcing his disdain for all of the former Motown artists that he once begged to work with. In [[almost) every bio for [[almost) every MotorCity track on YouTube, he comes across as gossipy and "the hero". Calling Gladys an "alcoholic bag lady" is tacky, just like his backing tracks.

[copley]

Levine called Wanda an "alcoholic bag lady"

[arrr&bee]

I've seen this video and wanda sounds good,but did anyone try to help her afterwards and where is she today?

[marybrewster]

I think the quote was "she was rumored to be an alcoholic bag lady".

He did go on to say she was embarassing and stone drunk. This coming from a "fan".

True or not, I think his remarks are embarassing and adds no credibility to his work. He's got some other "chioce" words to describe Martha Reeves and Mary Wilson. I guess he's not as professional as I once thought, if he'll lower himself to post these things publicly.

[blueskies]

I'd have to agree with you, Mary Brewster. Posting those type of comments publicly by someone who enticed these people to record .....well.....

Poor Wanda....looks like someone rolled her in a tub of glitter. Last I read she was in a nursing facility and family reported she was doing "OK". What a great voice she had. I wish her well.

[captainjames]

Does anyone know who the backgrond singers are? I can't seem to identify any of them. It is not the best I have heard but, not the worst. I loved that Ms. Edwards was there, she seems to always have a soft spot for all the artists at Motown. In my opinion she was instrumental in making Motown feel like family because she cared.

[reese]

Does anyone know who the backgrond singers are? I can't seem to identify any of them. It is not the best I have heard but, not the worst. I loved that Ms. Edwards was there, she seems to always have a soft spot for all the artists at Motown. In my opinion she was instrumental in making Motown feel like family because she cared.

In this video, I believe the background singers are the Monitors.

On THE MARVELETTES NOW album [[released by Motorcity), the background vocals are credited to the Andantes.

[marybrewster]

Are the background vocalists The Elgins? Or maybe reese is right, The Monitors?

I hope Wanda is well. She gave us a lot of great music and certainly deserves to be remembered in her prime, rather than this clip. If anyone has any updated info on her, I'm sure we'd all love to hear about what's new. Her and Gladys as well.

Funny [[?) how this one girl-group was plagued by so many mental and health issues. I'm happy to see that Miss Kat is doing so well. God bless her.

Speaking of Marvelettes, does anyone know where Ann Bogan is, or what she's doing?

[jobeterob]

I wondered why Ian made the gratuitous comments he did as well. I like seeing this alot; I've watched it many times and it was one of my favorite Marvelette songs.

There are two views of this kind of editing ~ one is that it provides an editorial opinion of history. As we know, with the famous Motown artists, it is the only thing that will sell their books. On the other hand, it often comes across as mean spirited nastiness and jealousy from those that weren't successful.

[reese]

I wondered why Ian made the gratuitous comments he did as well. I like seeing this alot; I've watched it many times and it was one of my favorite Marvelette songs.

There are two views of this kind of editing ~ one is that it provides an editorial opinion of history. As we know, with the famous Motown artists, it is the only thing that will sell their books. On the other hand, it often comes across as mean spirited nastiness and jealousy from those that weren't successful.

Ian might not have meant any harm. What he said about Wanda was almost word for word what Raynoma Singleton wrote in her book. Perhaps he was just using it to illustrate how down and out Wanda really was and the effort that it took to finally get a vocal from her.

Also, I think Ian has gotten a bad rap from some fans, and maybe from some of the performers as well. It seems that the Motorcity experience might have gotten some hopes up in a unrealistic way and when it was all over, no one was the better for it.

[captainjames]

Well, on the positve side of it I will credit Ivan with giving us Nick Of Time [[I love that tune) and for helping [[along with Kim Weston) getting Wanda back up on that stage. She had to feel good to be back up there on stage singing.

[marv2]

The background singers here in this clip are the Monitors. We had to ask Warren Harris'[[an orginal member) daughter to be quiet as she kept yelling "that's my daddy up there......." throughout the song! LOL!!!!

[jobeterob]

Good point Reese. I also think that quite a few of the artists and some committed fans saw "more hits" and when they didn't develop, there was a lot of disappointment.

Fans never stop; I can recall reading a comment from a Diana Ross fan during Michael Jackson's funeral; she said Diana needed to appear at the funeral, sing You Are Not Alone and have another #1 hit.

When the hits are over, they are over; when they never come, as they never came for many Motown artists and group members, they never came. You need to be realistic.

[captainjames]

Thanks for identifying the background singers with Wanda. I use to hear a lot about Gladys as well but, I don't hear much from her.

[midnightman]

I saw that performance. I really feel for the Marvelettes. I hope Gladys and Wanda are OK. I know Katherine is doing great.

[luke]

Gladys has retired-part of her reason for that was disgust/depression over the fake Marvelettes.

[jobeterob]

Katherine Anderson is on Facebook; you can add her, like you can many other ex Motowners. I think Martha Reeves actually does her own posts. Diana Ross has 115,000 fans or friends...........I'm sure she only looks in perhaps.

[smark21]

Well here's the Marvelettes performing during their prime and how I prefer to hear and watch them.

[davie gordon2]

To my ears it sounds as if Ian used the Motorcity studio version of "Don't Mess With Bill" as the soundtrack to that clip - that doesn't sound like the Monitors on background vocals.

[reese]

To my ears it sounds as if Ian used the Motorcity studio version of "Don't Mess With Bill" as the soundtrack to that clip - that doesn't sound like the Monitors on background vocals.

He did. So it is the Monitors onstage in the clip, but its actually the Andantes that we're hearing.

[jobeterob]

Lots of tricks in this trade! Incredible what is done in the name of a Marvelette! Amazing how a made-up name lost in a poker game can have such value or perhaps no value at all and mean so much.

[topdiva1]

Wanda Rogers is a great voice - and has never gotten the acclaim she should have enjoyed.

[marv2]

I've seen this video and wanda sounds good,but did anyone try to help her afterwards and where is she today?

Afterwards? Do you mean afterwards that night or ongoing support? I remember "Frantic" Ernie Durham [[RIP) and I took Wanda downstairs on the elevator after her performance to the "dressing rooms" where everyone else was was either coming or going. She wasn't that far gone that night as she tried flirting with me on the elevator! LOL!

The one out of all those great ,veteran peformers that everyone, including myself were in complete awe of that night after it was all said and done was Ms. Jean Terrell! She brought the house down!

I don't understand why Ian Levine never uploaded the clip of that performance [[Jean/FLOS) anywhere on the internet. I asked him that night about the videotaping and when he planned on releasing the entire show on video and he said that they would be only releasing it to foreign markets and there were no plans to put it on sale in the U.S.

[marv2]

In case anyone didn't notice, that is Robert Batemen conducting the band. He wrote "Please Mr. Postman" for Marvelettes.

[robbert]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVsW_...ayer_embedded#!

This is an even better sounding clip of DMWB.

[marv2]

Much better! My girls! Thanks Robbert

[tomato tom]

Plenty of artists have had very public drink /drug problems. Billie Holliday, Rick James.. to name a few. Wanda has had her problems. She is Human, like all of us. None of us can be perfect. Whoever thought Diana Ross would have alcohol issues, for instance?

Can we not just enjoy THAT voice, and not seem to concentrate on putting the poor woman down. Katherine said all that had to be said about the past in the wonderful Marc Taylor book on the group, and I am so glad she did. BUT, It was so nice to see that, at least, and at last that some burnt bridges have been rebuilt.

As for the Motorcity reunion. It was a miracle Wanda made a mini comeback, so to speak, and I personally was both pleased and sad at what the result was. At least she gave it a shot, thanks to Kim, Ian and others.

As much as Ians production styles may grate at times, you must remember, THIS type of sound was what was BIG in the clubs and discos of the U.K. at the time. High Energy it was called. Sounds very dated now, but that was what you danced to on a Saturday night.
..Paulo XXXX