The Manhattan Transfer - "Where Did Our Love Go?"

[marv2]

Manhattan Transfer, one of my favorite jazz vocal groups of all time give "Where Did Our Love Go?" the treatment here in this great 1978 clip! Theyare just so talented the way they mix the Donnie Elbert's lead with the Supremes background. Check out how dry the "ultra" conservative audience's non-response to them........

[thommg]

The lead singer in that video is Alan Paul. The other guy is Tim Hauser and the ladies are Janis Siegel and Cheryl Bentyne.

[marv2]

The lead singer in that video is Alan Paul. The other guy is Tim Hauser and the ladies are Janis Siegel and Cheryl Bentyne.

Yes! All great singers!

[thanxal]

I can clearly hear the Andantes in the background.

Seriously, their album "Swing!" is outstanding. Hearing this, I'd love it if they had done a Motown cover album.

The audience? Boring white people with no souls. The woman at the end of the clip in the white blouse with black trim looks positively horrified to hear "black" music.

[honest man]

I can clearly hear the Andantes in the background.

Seriously, their album "Swing!" is outstanding. Hearing this, I'd love it if they had done a Motown cover album.

The audience? Boring white people with no souls. The woman at the end of the clip in the white blouse with black trim looks positively horrified to hear "black" music.

Love the Pastiche album.

[marv2]

I can clearly hear the Andantes in the background.

Seriously, their album "Swing!" is outstanding. Hearing this, I'd love it if they had done a Motown cover album.

The audience? Boring white people with no souls. The woman at the end of the clip in the white blouse with black trim looks positively horrified to hear "black" music.

I don't get it. I don't get it at all! It was 1978 the height of the DISCO era and they couldn't even tap their foots or snap their fingers. Manhattan Transfer were not even performing a disco song but a light, rhymic soul/pop song.

My favorite albums by them were "Mecca For Moderns", "Extensions " and "The Manhattan Transfer" from 1975.

[marv2]

How many of you remember this fro '87.....

[edafan]

Some people just don't recognize good music

edafan

[thommg]

They recorded a wonderful version of Helpless on their album Coming Out.

[marv2]

They recorded a wonderful version of Helpless on their album Coming Out.

I am going to have to look that one up. I haven't heard it yet. Thanks.

[roger]

The audience? Boring white people with no souls. The woman at the end of the clip in the white blouse with black trim looks positively horrified to hear "black" music.

Well yes ... but they were actors and they were on set!!

Here are MANHATTAN TRANSFER singing "Chanson D'Amour" from the same show with the boring white people getting into the groove .... LOL



Roger

[carole cucumber]

There is no location listed for the performance of "Where Did Our Love Go" Does anyone know where this occurred? It may have been taped in an area/country where a certain reserve is protocol/expected.
Some of the comments expressed here are harsh and judgmental. They exhibit a phase of racism.
The girls to whom Alan Paul sings when he comes offstage may well be sitting with their parents [[to their left). One of the girls has a subtle smile when Alan is singing to her.
The woman at the end of the clip in the white blouse with black trim seems to have had her attention diverted by whatever is happening to her right- notice that at least five other members of the audience are also looking in that direction.

[carole cucumber]

I noticed that in the comment section for "Chason D'Amour" on YouTube that someone posts a connection to German tv. Perhaps that is where this was taped and shown.

[marv2]

Those people in the "Where Did Our Go? clip were dead with their eyes open. What a waste!

[carole cucumber]

It's quite revealing that you present yourself as being in their hearts and souls to know exactly what they were thinking and feeling during and after that performance since they did not express themselves in the fashion that you expected or the manner in which you, yourself, might have. Were you on the way home after the show with any/several of them to listen in on their conversations as they shared their comments and opinions away from the confines of the social behavior expected in their culture?
I'm terribly, terribly thankful that none of us is God. What a even sadder world it would truly be!

[carole cucumber]

Those people in the "Where Did Our Go? clip were dead with their eyes open. What a waste!

It's quite revealing that you present yourself as being in their hearts and souls to know exactly what they were thinking and feeling during and after that performance since they did not express themselves in the fashion that you expected or the manner in which you, yourself, might have. Were you on the way home after the show with any/several of them to listen in on their conversations as they shared their comments and opinions away from the confines of the social behavior expected in their culture?
I'm terribly, terribly thankful that none of us is God. What a even sadder world it would truly be!

[calvin]

Roger is right, these "audience" members are on stage and it is part of the show. It could be that some members of the "real" audience were also chosen to sit up there to fill out the stage, but many of them are actors.

In "Chanson D'Amour", at 1:25, you see a man walk towards a table with a younger and older woman - he intends to dance with the younger woman but the older one quickly stands up to dance with him. That's supposed to be a bit of humour! This little sketch of "dance partner selection" then continues with others getting involved.

The man at 1:25 is Rudi Carrell, he was a Dutch entertainer/comedian who made his career on German TV from the mid 1960s. This program is from before the period I lived in Germany, but he was still popular on German TV when I lived there.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudi_Carrell

[marv2]

It's quite revealing that you present yourself as being in their hearts and souls to know exactly what they were thinking and feeling during and after that performance since they did not express themselves in the fashion that you expected or the manner in which you, yourself, might have. Were you on the way home after the show with any/several of them to listen in on their conversations as they shared their comments and opinions away from the confines of the social behavior expected in their culture?
I'm terribly, terribly thankful that none of us is God. What a even sadder world it would truly be!

I said they look dead and they will always look that way, frozen in time in this video clip. They mean nothing to me, so I am not breaking a sweat analyzing them like you are.

[carole cucumber]

I said they look dead and they will always look that way, frozen in time in this video clip. They mean nothing to me, so I am not breaking a sweat analyzing them like you are.

Your "What a waste" comment reveals much more than you can now attempt to disguise and divert away.
If they mean 'nothing' to you, why comment about them at all?

[marv2]

Now here they are that same year, 1978 on "Top of the Pops" with a much "livelier and more appreciative" audience singing "Where Did Our Go?" ! My faith in humanity has been restored hehehehehehehe........

[marv2]

Your "What a waste" comment reveals much more than you can now attempt to disguise and divert away.
If they mean 'nothing' to you, why comment about them at all?

Because I can?

[zani57]

Manhattan Transfer, one of my favorite jazz vocal groups of all time give "Where Did Our Love Go?" the treatment here in this great 1978 clip! Theyare just so talented the way they mix the Donnie Elbert's lead with the Supremes background. Check out how dry the "ultra" conservative audience's non-response to them........

Marv, I am just wondering if you are able to read back the way you talk about groups of people on here and the way you write to other people on here.
And I am curious. If it were an audience of predominantly African-American people would you call them "stupid black people"? I do not believe that would be tolerated.
I went back to read Ralph's statement about will and won't be tolerated. Does this only apply to The Supremes?

" I can play a little hard ball with anyone who creates a problem. Even the slightest. I will immediately delete the thread and PERMANENTLY ban the instigator.

I'm tired of the constant and senseless bickering that arises from these threads. Why this happens is beyond my understanding. I may not be able to understand it, but I can most certainly stop it.

....

hope we understand one another, because I am not kidding on this. All this bullshit stops now. don't believe me? Try me out. "

I truly am curious. We are supposed to all say only nice things about Florence, Mary, Diana, Jean, Lynda, Scherrie, Susaye..... but Mary Wells is fair game? Martha Reeves? Donnie Elbert? White people?

[roger]

Hmmmm ....

I'm thinking that some of the people who are contributing to this thread still haven't understood that that unresponsive audience in Marv2's original clip were not actually the audience but part of the act. The "real" audience can be seen at the beginning of the "Chanson D'Amour" clip that I posted and I am sure that they would have been tapping their feet etc. in a way that we would consider to be normal!!

The MANHATTAN TRANSFER version of "Where Did Our Love Go" was a medium sized hit in the U.K. and reached #40 on the chart, hence that "Top Of The Pops" appearance. And I'm totally in agreement with Marv2 in that the styling of the lead vocal was based on the 1971 version by DONNIE ELBERT rather than the 1964 version by THE SUPREMES.

Perhaps my favourite record by the group was the very thrilleresque "Spice Of Life" in 1984 which has STEVIE WONDER popping up in the middle with a harmonica solo ...

Here is a clip of the group performing "Spice Of Life" .... unfortunately they are lip-synching and so Mr Wonder doesn't appear in it .... fortunately there is no studio audience [[fake or otherwise) for us to discuss ....



Roger

[calvin]

Yes Roger, you are right. I lived in Germany for many years and as I posted above, I recognize one of the "audience" members as a famous personality [[Rudi Carrell) from German TV. And some of the "audience" members do a little comedy sketch in the middle of "Chanson"!

You also have to consider the setting of the show. The young people in Top of the Pops are *expected* to dance for the show, while the "real" audience in the German show [[seen at the beginning of the "Chanson" clip") are much older and are seated close together to *watch* the show - which was likely a variety show with comedy, music, etc. What are they supposed to do, get out of their seats to go up on stage and interfere with the performance?

[carole cucumber]

Hmmmm ....

I'm thinking that some of the people who are contributing to this thread still haven't understood that that unresponsive audience in Marv2's original clip were not actually the audience but part of the act. The "real" audience can be seen at the beginning of the "Chanson D'Amour" clip that I posted and I am sure that they would have been tapping their feet etc. in a way that we would consider to be normal!! ......
Roger

Roger,
Please look again. The real audience at the beginning of ''Chason D'Amour" is the same real audience at the end of the first posted video of "Where Did Our Love Go" - same people, same clothes, same seats.
Yes, I understand that the onstage dancers & sitters in the "Chason D'Amour" clip are part of the act.

[zani57]

Above, it was mentioned that "Spice of Life" had a "Thriller-esque" quality to it. I believe Rod Temperton worked with Michael Jackson on the sound of "Thriller." And he worked on "Spice of Life" from the MT's "Bodies and Souls" album. He also wrote a song first sung by The Manhattan Transfer that was later recorded by Anita Baker --- "Mystery."

One of my personal favorites by The Manhattan Transfer is "Ray's Rockhouse" from "Vocalese." Here is the official video --

[splanky]

Geeze!...
That the Manhatten Transfer performed a Motown song, especially one associated with the
Supremes, sure shreds folk's wigs, doesn't it? I don't know the circumstances that formed the audience but I really don't think it matters that they were white or even that most weren't exactly thrilled by the performance. They could have been Swing Dance fans for all
we know...Another thing I thought is that I think MT could have benefitted from a thread of their own, outside of the Motown Forum and perhaps in reference to other jazz vocal groups
like Lambert Hendricks and Ross before them and The New York Voices after, but I guess
that's just me.....

[Methuselah2]

The Manhattan Transfer/HELPLESS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U42nF9GvxJE

Thanks to Thommg for the tip to this one, and to AuntieSoul34 for the YouTube posting.

[roger]

Roger,
Please look again. The real audience at the beginning of ''Chason D'Amour" is the same real audience at the end of the first posted video of "Where Did Our Love Go" - same people, same clothes, same seats.
Yes, I understand that the onstage dancers & sitters in the "Chason D'Amour" clip are part of the act.

I have to admit that I hadn't noticed the "real" audience at the end of the first clip [[all two seconds of it) until you pointed it out Carole, but surely the rather silly comments that have been made about the "unresponsive audience" refer to the "fake" audience [[all two minutes of it). The "real" audience seeem to me to be responding in exactly the way I would expect a variety show audience to act.

Anyway, it seems that some people around here aren't aware of the DONNIE ELBERT version of "Where Did our Love Go", which surprises me as it was a huge international hit in early 1972 .... #6 R&B/#15 Pop in the U.S. and #8 in the U.K. Here it is so that people can compare the vocal performance of Mr Elbert and MANHATTAN TRANSFER ....



Roger

[marv2]

Marv, I am just wondering if you are able to read back the way you talk about groups of people on here and the way you write to other people on here.
And I am curious. If it were an audience of predominantly African-American people would you call them "stupid black people"? I do not believe that would be tolerated.
I went back to read Ralph's statement about will and won't be tolerated. Does this only apply to The Supremes?

" I can play a little hard ball with anyone who creates a problem. Even the slightest. I will immediately delete the thread and PERMANENTLY ban the instigator.

I'm tired of the constant and senseless bickering that arises from these threads. Why this happens is beyond my understanding. I may not be able to understand it, but I can most certainly stop it.

....

hope we understand one another, because I am not kidding on this. All this bullshit stops now. don't believe me? Try me out. "

I truly am curious. We are supposed to all say only nice things about Florence, Mary, Diana, Jean, Lynda, Scherrie, Susaye..... but Mary Wells is fair game? Martha Reeves? Donnie Elbert? White people?

You are referring to Post #4 by Thanxal. That is not my comment. I made no such comment. Thank you.

[ralpht]

Geesh, I have to wake up to this? I've read the entire thread and from what I'm seeing, Marv is being goaded by a couple of you. I couldn't read any problem from him initially, but I did read statements that would accelerate a problem for me. So do me a favor gang and quit quoting me and stick to the content of the thread.

[marv2]

The Manhattan Transfer/HELPLESS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U42nF9GvxJE

Thanks to Thommg for the tip to this one, and to AuntieSoul34 for the YouTube posting.

That sounds authentically "Motown"! They sound great. Janis tears it up.

[thanxal]

You are referring to Post #4 by Thanxal. That is not my comment. I made no such comment. Thank you.

And I stick by that 100%. It was a comment about the lifelessness and the mean look on an audience members face. It had nothing to do with anyone here, was not an attack on anyone here and was a comment about how that audience had no reaction and even an obvious negative one. I did not say "all white people are soulless", just the ones in that audience. Marv2 simply agreed with me. I've religiously avoided these fights, but this one is simply ridiculous.

[marv2]

And I stick by that 100%. It was a comment about the lifelessness and the mean look on an audience members face. It had nothing to do with anyone here, was not an attack on anyone here and was a comment about how that audience had no reaction and even an obvious negative one. I did not say "all white people are soulless", just the ones in that audience. Marv2 simply agreed with me. I've religiously avoided these fights, but this one is simply ridiculous.

I did not believe you meant to sincerely offend anyone. This little ruckus began when Carolcucumber decided to tell me that I should not have THAT opinion, [[the opinion I had of the audiences lack of response to the Manhattan Transfers performance...). She proceeded to tell me that I should consider whatever personal issues the audience, in Germany had back in 1978! I merely stated my opinion on what I saw in the 2:16 minute clip I posted for everyone's enjoyment. Later it was discovered that the audience closest to the stage and group were made up of actors, other performers which to me still does not excuse their behavior. In fact, it has been my experience that other performers are generally more animated when viewing the performances of fellow performers. This was much ado about nothing!

[thanxal]

I did not believe you meant to sincerely offend anyone. This little ruckus began when Carolcucumber decided to tell me that I should not have THAT opinion, [[the opinion I had of the audiences lack of response to the Manhattan Transfers performance...). She proceeded to tell me that I should consider whatever personal issues the audience, in Germany had back in 1978! I merely stated my opinion on what I saw in the 2:16 minute clip I posted for everyone's enjoyment. Later it was discovered that the audience closest to the stage and group were made up of actors, other performers which to me still does not excuse their behavior. In fact, it has been my experience that other performers are generally more animated when viewing the performances of fellow performers. This was much ado about nothing!

Nothing in our earlier conversation was an attack on anyone. I'm not sure why the lecture followed our posts, but I agree with Ralph that it was unnecessary.

Let's all move on now.

[ralpht]

Like your name says, Thanxal

[smark21]

I think the performance is really cheesy, especially the histrionics of the lead singer, and deserving of a cool reaction.

[144man]

I'm really surprised that MT's version of "Helpless" isn't better known.

[roger]

This was the first song I ever heard by MANHATTAN TRANSFER back in 1976 ... still sounds great to this day



Roger

[marv2]

This was the first song I ever heard by MANHATTAN TRANSFER back in 1976 ... still sounds great to this day



Roger

I love that record! That was a good one. I think the first thing I remember hearing by the Manhattan Transfer was " Operator" also from around 1975! They are much like many of the classic Motown groups in that they REALLY knew how to sing and perform which gave them their longevity. They are a class act .

[Methuselah2]

Have always loved this one:

TWILIGHT ZONE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVm6ZEQt71c

Thanks to AuntieSoul34 for this YouTube posting.

[stephanie]

I love Chanson and the Twilight Zone. I never became a fan of this group I guess because I always attributed them to being broadwayish and New York like. Very talented but I am not aware of any personnel changes or things that when on with the group they were faceless to me. Not blaming them I dont own any of their records but I know their music. Were there a lot of personnel changes?

[marv2]

I love Chanson and the Twilight Zone. I never became a fan of this group I guess because I always attributed them to being broadwayish and New York like. Very talented but I am not aware of any personnel changes or things that when on with the group they were faceless to me. Not blaming them I dont own any of their records but I know their music. Were there a lot of personnel changes?

Stephanie the original Manhattan Transfer began in 1969 and out of that group only Tim Houser remains. The group that's out there now and the one that most people know came together in 1973 and have had only one personnel change with Cheryl Bentyne joining in 1978. The current four members have been together since 1978.

[LuvHangOva]

I think the performance is really cheesy, especially the histrionics of the lead singer, and deserving of a cool reaction.

Actually the lead singer is doing almost a note for note inflection for inflection imitation of the Donnie Elbert version of Where Did Our Love Go from the late 70's. I always liked that version too...a little campy and somewhat over the top but still fun

[splanky]

I never really got much into Manhatten Transfer's disco stuff, prefering the jazz related
material. Enjoyed their shared stage work with The New York Voices on Weather Report's
Birdland quite a bit...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCytxcavaEA
Janis also still does great solo work, still has her chops intact..

[Methuselah2]

Loved the MT/NYV BIRDLAND video, Splanky. Just wonderful. Thanks very much for posting.

[marv2]

I never really got much into Manhatten Transfer's disco stuff, prefering the jazz related
material. Enjoyed their shared stage work with The New York Voices on Weather Report's
Birdland quite a bit...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCytxcavaEA
Janis also still does great solo work, still has her chops intact..

Yeah the New York Voice are another very talented group. Ever hear Manhattan Transfer version of "Gloria"?

[PhillyKen]

Tim Hauser started out singing doowops in Asbury Park,NJ with a group called The Criterions from late 50s.He loves all music but his roots were doowop and soul he heard growing up in Asbury Park area .No wonder his group can still get "soulful".