1983 Supremes re-grouping question

[blueskies]

I was re-reading the liner notes in the "Let Yourself Go...final sessions". I don't know how I missed this the first time around, but, it jumped out at me this time. It stated that in 1983, Motown approached Mary to re-group with Scherrie and Cindy...but, basically a deal couldn't be reached. It didn't elaborate. Does anyone know anything about that? Wonder what happened? That could have been interesting as music had changed quite a bit by 1983. I've never heard this particular topic discussed here.

[reese]

In her second book, Mary wrote that the idea came about after the Tempts reunion the year before. Suzanne dePasse had plans for an album and a tour. One condition that Mary had was that she wanted to sing some leads. Motown wanted Scherrie to do all the leads.

A meeting was set up at Berry's house, with Mary, Berry, and Shelly Berger. Shelly didn't show up, and Berry wore a bathrobe. The meeting was cordial, and Mary asked what Berry's thoughts on the reunion were, as it wouldn't really get off the ground if he wasn't involved. Berry said that someone else had brought the idea to him and basically admitted he wasn't all that interested.

[blueskies]

Thank you Reese, I wasn't aware of all this. Interesting.

[reese]

At the time, I remember seeing a blurb in JET about it. It also mentioned that Cindy was hoping to get a gospel contract through her company Joy Enterprises.

[blueskies]

At the time, I remember seeing a blurb in JET about it. It also mentioned that Cindy was hoping to get a gospel contract through her company Joy Enterprises.

What was Cindy's company....Joy Enterprises? I've never heard about that, either.

[reese]

What was Cindy's company....Joy Enterprises? I've never heard about that, either.

I have no idea. I just remember that being mentioned in the blurb that JET printed.

[daviddh]

I thought that Mary backed out of it?? not sure

[BayouMotownMan]

The reunion in early 83 that dePasse had in mind was Diana Ross and the Supremes, with Mary and Cindy. Ross shot this down fast but Mary ran with it. When this failed to materialize Mary brought Scherrie and Cindy to the table and we know the outcome. The Temptations Reunion tour was a costly nightmare for Motown and that also killed interest in a Supremes package. Gordy had wanted to rid himself of the Supremes post-Ross for a long time. For years he had, therefore this was not something he embraced.

[marv2]

The reunion in early 83 that dePasse had in mind was Diana Ross and the Supremes, with Mary and Cindy. Ross shot this down fast but Mary ran with it. When this failed to materialize Mary brought Scherrie and Cindy to the table and we know the outcome. The Temptations Reunion tour was a costly nightmare for Motown and that also killed interest in a Supremes package. Gordy had wanted to rid himself of the Supremes post-Ross for a long time. For years he had, therefore this was not something he embraced.

"Gordy had wanted to rid himself of the Supremes post-Ross for a long time."


Which is why they stopped promoting the Supremes records...............

[REDHOT]

i do remember this,but from what i heard, it was some money on the table,some of The Supremes got paid,and then Diana backed out,and the ladies didn't have to give back the money,yes Mary wanted Cindy Birdsong and Scherrie Payne,it would been worth a try anyway.

[captainjames]

The reunion in early 83 that dePasse had in mind was Diana Ross and the Supremes, with Mary and Cindy. Ross shot this down fast but Mary ran with it. When this failed to materialize Mary brought Scherrie and Cindy to the table and we know the outcome. The Temptations Reunion tour was a costly nightmare for Motown and that also killed interest in a Supremes package. Gordy had wanted to rid himself of the Supremes post-Ross for a long time. For years he had, therefore this was not something he embraced.

This is how I remember it as well and funds were tight for the girls - Diana was no longer with Motown and BG was probably still a bit hurt. Three years later [[or 2) we got DREAMGIRLS, My Life As a A Supreme !!!!

[midnightman]

I personally feel the Supremes reunion didn't get off the ground because the Temptations' reunion a year before turned out to be a big bust especially concerning David Ruffin, who kept missing gigs to his troubling coke habit [[Dennis Edwards practically admitted some of the other Tempts - him, David and a few others minus Otis, Melvin & Eddie - were using drugs though the others showed up except David). Berry didn't want the hassle of organizing a reunion that if failed would cost him more money issues. Plus he wasn't that keen on having Diana join a reunion because they had a beef [[even if they did embrace during Motown 25, that's what you call PR, folks lol) and he surely wasn't too excited with reuniting a 1970s version of a group most in the mainstream only remembered for their 1960s work/lineup.

[marybrewster]

The movie "The Big Chill" was huge that year; the soundtrack [[or was their two?) was virtually Motown 101. This brought a lot of renewed interest in groups like the Temptations; the Supremes.

There was never a question that Diana would reform with Mary and Cindy. The next logical step was to bring in Scherrie. Rumor does state that Mary asked Berry for his "blessing"; when he came across as disinterested, Mary dropped it.

Interesting enough, it was just a few years later that Jean, Scherrie and Cindy were approached by Superstar Records to create the FLOs. When Cindy dropped, Lynda joined.

[luke]

As I recall this all happened in 1982 NOT 1983. Cindy's comment was in a 1982 Jet magazine. Mary said Diana returning to the group was "out of the question."

[marv2]

As I recall this all happened in 1982 NOT 1983. Cindy's comment was in a 1982 Jet magazine. Mary said Diana returning to the group was "out of the question."

Luke, that is right. It was in 1982 .

[marv2]

The movie "The Big Chill" was huge that year; the soundtrack [[or was their two?) was virtually Motown 101. This brought a lot of renewed interest in groups like the Temptations; the Supremes.

There was never a question that Diana would reform with Mary and Cindy. The next logical step was to bring in Scherrie. Rumor does state that Mary asked Berry for his "blessing"; when he came across as disinterested, Mary dropped it.

Interesting enough, it was just a few years later that Jean, Scherrie and Cindy were approached by Superstar Records to create the FLOs. When Cindy dropped, Lynda joined.

It was Scherrie alone who was approached by this start up Superstar Records. She approached Mary and Mary said no.

[jobeterob]

Was the Temptations reunion and tour a disaster because many or most of them were using drugs and not applying themselves to their work?

Or was there little interest in them at that stage in their career and it wouldn't have mattered if they had been working hard?

[midnightman]

^ A mixture of both. Sure, there was interest when the reunion began to take shape but it quickly evaporated once the tour got off the ground.

[Jimi LaLumia]

it was the MTV era, the world had moved on..The Tempts needed 80's stars Rick James, and then Hall & Oates, to draw mainstream attention to them, which still didn't help once the smoke cleared..

[smark21]

And the coke was snorted off the table.

[supremester]

Anyone who thinks that Suzanne DePasse would suggest Miss Ross return to The Supremes in the early 80's when she was, with The Stones, perhaps the hottest touring act in the world, is nutzipoopoo. It's absurd to even type it. Since signing with RCA, in 24 months she had 3 gold albums, 2 platinum albums and #1 for 9 weeks and 3 other top 10's. Additionally WDFFIL was an international smash as was the album. She was on fire. No way she would do a Supremes tour and Depasse, of all people knew it.

Suzanne is a packager. She knew Mary had not really launched as successfully as many thought, and no other Supremes were doing much either, so it made sense. Motown, contrary to what some people who choose not to use logic think, Motown's record division, floating in and out of red ink was not looking to rid themselves of any groups - especially The Rossless Supremes. With Pedro gone and Mary's solo aspirations brought into reality, it seemed a good time to resurrect the biggest group in Motown history: Motown needed the income, The Supremes could use the work, and the public would get another crack at Supremes Grouping #6 and it would definitely be a strong attempt at keeping the legacy alive as The Tempts were able to do so well. A successful album and single would be worth a fortune in bookings and they could have done some occasional, high profile gigs with The Tempts. It was perfect except Mary wanted to sing leads and Motown still felt Mary was not a lead singer. It's too bad that it wasn't tried, might have saved the world a lot of grief and kept The Supremes alive instead of a memory.

[smark21]

There were people in the late 70s who thought Mary Wilson had a serious shot at solo stardom?

[jobeterob]

Well..........Pedro............and.............um, you know

[marv2]

There were people in the late 70s who thought Mary Wilson had a serious shot at solo stardom?

Yes! and she is a solo star.

[vgalindo]

Yes! and she is a solo star.

Really? In what country? hehehehe LOL

[Jimi LaLumia]

I actually thought she could be, and I enjoyed a good deal of the solo album.. but Red Hot was a horrific choice for the single, there were much better choices, and that first single was the make or break..

[supremester]

Yes and I was one of them. Contrary to what some like to spew, Mary's Motown solo album launch had a lot of publicity. Magazine ads, album posters in stores, the 12" played in clubs - everything short of TV appearances that was done back in the day, was done. There were pics of her club debut with Miss Ross...... it seemed that Mary had launched. I thought the album was weak, but I didn't like lots of stuff that hit, so no biggie and I still don't think it's a bad album [[like Flo's), just weak and a lot of her vocal riffs don't work. It came out while The Boss was everywhere and a smash and it was often promoted together. Mary seemed to be on her way because of the high visibility of her album. It got more attention than the MSC/MSS stuff, so I assumed she was working a lot but just not around here. What I couldn't understand was why she was doing Hal Davis dance tracks because that was not her forte. So the album and singles didn't hit or chart. Martha wasn't charting with much better product, Cher had a high profile album that didn't or barely charted - it didn't mean they were going to work at Fotomat. A few years later, Mary came to Portland with......gulp...."The Supremes" opening an oldies tour and they were awful and not well received - I felt sorry for her. Most people had no idea who she was until the book came out. That's when her solo "career" happened.

There were people in the late 70s who thought Mary Wilson had a serious shot at solo stardom?

[marybrewster]

Mary's debut LP IMO had too many "aowwwe's" and "woo-wee's". Disco was pretty much over in 1979; her LP should have come out two years earlier, or, a different concept should have come out two years later. The single "Red Hot" wasn't exactly great material either; I think "Midnight Dancer" should have been the single.

Motown never had any intention of making Mary a star. Her release came as a result of a lawsuit. When they held up their end of the bargain, they dropped her. She should have skipped the recording and gone for the cash.

[Glenpwood]

Very solid point Mary, here's what I said a few years ago on this forum regarding the solo album and career in general...

There's a lot to take into consideration with this subject...

As cold as this sounds but this applies to any artist: DONT SUE YOUR RECORD LABEL THEN EXPECT THEM TO FIND YOU HIT SONGS AND MARKET THEM TO PLATINUM STATUS. The only artist I can think of from that period that succeeded after suing their label was OliviaNewtonJohn but it took a drastic image change and a starring role in Grease to turn her career around. I'm not saying Motown did no wrong with Mary while she was a Supreme but remember her solo deal was a settlement to get her to drop a lawsuit against them. If the contingency of the agreement had been we can stop the suit if you get me a gold album that might have helped. There was also Pedro still in the mix as manager who according to most accounts I've read was more about ambition and demands than skill at his job so he didn't possess the tools to get Mary the right appearances and media attention. She did work with Hal Davis on the first album who did have a hit touch but by the time the album streeted the Disco Sucks backlash had begun and people were blowing up their records at baseball games so even with strong marketing it probably wouldn't have gotten far. I've never heard the bootlegs of the initial sessions for album two that Motown rejected before dropping her but Mary describes them as having a rockier Tina Turner approach which fits in with the whole Rock or New Wave sound that came next so she was again being malleable to the then current marketplace. I think the stigma of the whole lawsuit might have been in the back of record executives minds when Mary shopped for a new deal. The record industry's ageism also came into play by this point since artists traditionally hit 40 then stop having major hits and won't even consider signing most veterans. She should have agreed to Motown's proposal of a Scherrie/Cindy/Mary reunion and used any positive buzz to get the solo career going again but she had Dreamgirl underway and probably believed the success of that would be enough to get a new deal instead.

In closing, Mary Wilson has been filling concert halls for decades now as a solo and been successful as an author, radio personality, actress, and humanitarian. The record sales may not have been there to match but she has had a great career and survived and thrived. The people who enjoy bashing the post Supremes solo careers because they didn't have a string of gold records and 12 number one singles need to realize all the ladies accomplished great feats that made some folks parameters of success irrelevant to them....

[marv2]

In closing, Mary Wilson has been filling concert halls for decades now as a solo and been successful as an author, radio personality, actress, and humanitarian. The record sales may not have been there to match but she has had a great career and survived and thrived. The people who enjoy bashing the post Supremes solo careers because they didn't have a string of gold records and 12 number one singles need to realize all the ladies accomplished great feats that made some folks parameters of success irrelevant to them....

These are all facts and are true.

[bradsupremes]

It's a shame Motown dropped Mary before she completed her second album with Gus Dudgeon because she was certainly onto something with him. The four tracks he produced for her were perfect for the time and really brought out her best. I believe if "Love Talk" or "You Danced My Heart Around The Stars" were released as singles they would have been hits.

[captainjames]

i agree, she should have took the money and ran. Motown at this point was not going to roll out the red carpet. She said no to BG on Jean and no on the Scherrie/Cindy regroup and then sued his company. She was not bankable to him.

Mary's debut LP IMO had too many "aowwwe's" and "woo-wee's". Disco was pretty much over in 1979; her LP should have come out two years earlier, or, a different concept should have come out two years later. The single "Red Hot" wasn't exactly great material either; I think "Midnight Dancer" should have been the single.

Motown never had any intention of making Mary a star. Her release came as a result of a lawsuit. When they held up their end of the bargain, they dropped her. She should have skipped the recording and gone for the cash.

[supremester]

The record sales may not have been there to match but she has had a great career and survived and thrived. The people who enjoy bashing the post Supremes solo careers because they didn't have a string of gold records and 12 number one singles need to realize all the ladies accomplished great feats that made some folks parameters of success irrelevant to them....[/QUOTE]

Mary has done very well for herself. She's a survivor and tenacious and will do what's necessary to get what she wants. Considering that she has had no records out as a solo, basically, she may be one of the most successful singers of her class ever. She has always had talent and beauty and has become a great personality on TV interviews. Bashers are usually responding to the bashing from one person who spends hours every day spreading hate. I imagine there would be no rhetoric at all like we see if he hadn't created and perpetuated the issue. He agrees with you about the above statement, yet bashed Ross for not having the same success she had in those 6 big years with The Supremes. LOL.

[vgalindo]

The record sales may not have been there to match but she has had a great career and survived and thrived. The people who enjoy bashing the post Supremes solo careers because they didn't have a string of gold records and 12 number one singles need to realize all the ladies accomplished great feats that made some folks parameters of success irrelevant to them....

Mary has done very well for herself. She's a survivor and tenacious and will do what's necessary to get what she wants. Considering that she has had no records out as a solo, basically, she may be one of the most successful singers of her class ever. She has always had talent and beauty and has become a great personality on TV interviews. Bashers are usually responding to the bashing from one person who spends hours every day spreading hate. I imagine there would be no rhetoric at all like we see if he hadn't created and perpetuated the issue. He agrees with you about the above statement, yet bashed Ross for not having the same success she had in those 6 big years with The Supremes. LOL.[/QUOTE

Exactly. He always says Diana hasn't had a hit in the last 30 years but fails to realize Mary has never had a solo hit ever and It sure has been a hell of a lot longer since Mary has been on any hit. What something like over 38 year ago was her last top 40 with the Supremes. It seems to be a double standard for him.

[smark21]

Then again we have a singer like Bettye Lavette who never had a major hit, but she's an in demand singer with some critical credibility and a devoted following. There's something to be said for tenacity.

[Jimi LaLumia]

so Diana Ross hasn't had a hit in 30 years... how many 70 year old, or 60 year old, or 50 year old pop stars have had a hit in the chart in the past thirty years?..
should Cher, Elton, the Stones and Mc Cartney stop touring because they don't have hits anymore?..the haters here are so desperate that they don't realize how zany and inane their 'arguements' actually are!..like the other artists listed above, Ross has plenty of hits to perform, and those hits are all hers and nobody else's , despite feeble attempts by former backup singers [[that weren't even ON some of the original recordings) to claim them as their own.. nobody falls for that, and nobody ever will..just think of it as tragic kareoke..

[midnightman]

Mary Wilson earned her legend credentials with the Supremes and she continues to do well now. You can make a name for yourself without establishing yourself as a charted artist and Mary has. She made it work with what little she was given and has continued to make audiences happy. Which is her job. She wanted to sing and be a star and she's accomplished that. She doesn't need a hit to validate herself. It would've helped but it is what it is. It's just too bad Flo wasn't able to do the same because just when she was about to do just that, she died. But Mary really doesn't need to reunite with any Supremes member, she's cool, just like Diana's cool on her own, just like Susaye, Lynda and Scherrie are cool. Of course, though, Cindy's too sick to do anything and Jean's retired but we have the memories. And as long as the two originals - Diana and Mary - and the others - Susaye, Lynda and Scherrie - are still working, the Supremes in a sense are still alive. Ain't that how it should be? All this bickering does nothing to celebrate their legacy.

[jobeterob]

Good post Glenwood, MaryB and Midnightman and Vgalindo.

I agree none of them need any reunions, particularly if Diana wants to keep her distance from Mary and if none of the Supremes particularly like Mary.

They can do what they've done and carry on.

Still, it is always sad for a fan to concede there will be no reunion of any kind.

[marybrewster]

I don't know where I'm going with this, but:

"Heritage" artists, like Diana and Mary, no longer need to prove themselves. That's why I don't understand the concept that they still need to release product that's "current." Diana was on the right track with her "I Love You" collection. Many artists [[Rod Stewart, Natalie Cole, Better Midler, Barry Manilow, Michael McDonald) have gone the way of "tribute" or "songbook" releases. That's what Diana and Mary should be doing: Lena Horne, Sarah Vaughn, Ella Fitzgerald, Della Reese.....the list is endless.

It's tough for a 60 or 70 year old to come across as "urban". I didn't care for Mary's "U" or her current "Life's Been Good to Me." Mary will never have a solo "hit." But that doesn't mean she should pack it up. She's still in fine form [[clearly a case of something that has gotten better over time) and should focus on her "Up Close" show. Diana will always have a vast library to choose from. The point is, they're still out there, wooo!, doing it!

As far as the argument of hits: I can think of plenty of amazing singers that have never had a hit. And on the flip side, can think of many auto-tuned, overproduced robots that have domiated the charts.

[marv2]

so Diana Ross hasn't had a hit in 30 years... how many 70 year old, or 60 year old, or 50 year old pop stars have had a hit in the chart in the past thirty years?..
should Cher, Elton, the Stones and Mc Cartney stop touring because they don't have hits anymore?..the haters here are so desperate that they don't realize how zany and inane their 'arguements' actually are!..like the other artists listed above, Ross has plenty of hits to perform, and those hits are all hers and nobody else's , despite feeble attempts by former backup singers [[that weren't even ON some of the original recordings) to claim them as their own.. nobody falls for that, and nobody ever will..just think of it as tragic kareoke..

I think it's been something like 33 or 34 years since Dianes had a hit. Her last theatrically released film was 36 years ago and her book totally bombed! Even Oprah couldn't get people to buy it

[honest man]

i think it's been something like 33 or 34 years since dianes had a hit. Her last theatrically released film was 36 years ago and her book totally bombed! Even oprah couldn't get people to buy it

you are so screwed up.get help please..............

[Lulu]

you are so screwed up.get help please..............

It's pointless. The worshippers made up the Grammy, The KC Honor, Christmas in Washington, and all of the numbers in attendance at the concerts: "Missing You" [[#10 Pop, #1 R&B, 1985), I Love You [[#32 Pop, 2007) and the two times "When You Tell Me That You Love Me" hit #2 in the UK [[1991, 2005). I could go on but then again, we're making all this stuff up and you can't argue with stupid or crazy.

[Jimi LaLumia]

Mary DID have a hit book, true..but of course, the book was all about somebody else, if the book had been about Mary Wilson, that would have been yet another tragedy, wouldn't it?..let's face it, Mary's entire 'career' has been writing about, talking about, and singing the songs of Diana Ross..she's almost like a one person tribute band!

[vgalindo]

Who cares. She has so many hits but for the record. Missing you was a top ten billboard hit 29 years ago [[1985) Do the math!!

[Jimi LaLumia]

true..and we're always told about the 70's Supremes topping the US Billboard Dance Charts..well, in 1995, "Take Me Higher" was #1 on Billboard's Dance Club Chart,and that was a mere 19 years ago, she was pushing 50 and still placing a #1...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_Me_Higher

[Lulu]

Mary DID have a hit book, true..but of course, the book was all about somebody else, if the book had been about Mary Wilson, that would have been yet another tragedy, wouldn't it?..let's face it, Mary's entire 'career' has been writing about, talking about, and singing the songs of Diana Ross..she's almost like a one person tribute band!

Give it 10 more years...Mary will be going to Diana Ross drag shows just like Christina Crawford does re: Joan!

[LadyLola]

I think it's been something like 33 or 34 years since Dianes had a hit. Her last theatrically released film was 36 years ago and her book totally bombed! Even Oprah couldn't get people to buy it

and of course like sunrise and sunset you open your fly trap. I agree with honest man ... get help!

[LadyLola]

Mary DID have a hit book, true..but of course, the book was all about somebody else, if the book had been about Mary Wilson, that would have been yet another tragedy, wouldn't it?..let's face it, Mary's entire 'career' has been writing about, talking about, and singing the songs of Diana Ross..she's almost like a one person tribute band!

and now we have the flip side of the coin. You're an ass

[LadyLola]

Give it 10 more years...Mary will be going to Diana Ross drag shows just like Christina Crawford does re: Joan!

Why stoop down the Marv level Lulu? I take back any complements I gave you in the past. While you're not a liar like some person, your twatish comment is well just that ... TWATISH!

[smark21]

I think Diana Ross and Supremes discussions would be a lot different around here if their fans were more like indie music snobs who are ashamed and embarrassed when their favorite act has hit records because it's a sign of selling out and appealing to the lowest common denominator.