Mary Wilson: Supremes Mark a 50th Anniversary, Baby, Baby, Where Did the Fanfare Go?

[Lulu]

This one hit all the marks for me!

http://www.creators.com/lifestylefea...anfare-go.html

[milven]

Yes it did. Very nice. And Mary is right. It is a shame that more was not done to celebrate the Supremes in the same way that the Beatles were celebrated.

[jillfoster]

This article reminds me, how come no avid Supremes fan has come up with the audio of that Tonight Show where they were on right after the assassination? I'd think SOMEONE would have it. I have the 1971 Tonight Show where they sing Nathan Jones, wev'e seen Flo's last appearance in 67, but not the 1968 one.

[blackguy69]

u have the 71 show where they sang nathan jones. i did hear the audio of the the other song they sang.

[jillfoster]

u have the 71 show where they sang nathan jones. i did hear the audio of the the other song they sang.

Yes... the audio of it. I'll have to pull it out, haven't listened to it in forever.

[marv2]

This article reminds me, how come no avid Supremes fan has come up with the audio of that Tonight Show where they were on right after the assassination? I'd think SOMEONE would have it. I have the 1971 Tonight Show where they sing Nathan Jones, wev'e seen Flo's last appearance in 67, but not the 1968 one.

You know there is a good chance that it exists. They did release a performance Marvin & Tammi did from 1967 I believe.

[smark21]

Yes it did. Very nice. And Mary is right. It is a shame that more was not done to celebrate the Supremes in the same way that the Beatles were celebrated.

While race and gender play a role in The supremes not getting the same fanfare for their 50th anniversary of their breakthrough, do bear in mind that very few works that were highly popular at the time of release sustain a lasting cultural influence. The Beatles transcended the British Invasion; The Supremes, on the other hand, while the most popular act on Motown in the 60s, didn't transcend with their work, as polished, popular and well done as it was. In the end, The Supremes and Diana Ross are not larger than Motown and it will be the overall concept of Motown that will last as it was bigger than any act on the label.

[marv2]

While race and gender play a role in The supremes not getting the same fanfare for their 50th anniversary of their breakthrough, do bear in mind that very few works that were highly popular at the time of release sustain a lasting cultural influence. The Beatles transcended the British Invasion; The Supremes, on the other hand, while the most popular act on Motown in the 60s, didn't transcend with their work, as polished, popular and well done as it was. In the end, The Supremes and Diana Ross are not larger than Motown and it will be the overall concept of Motown that will last as it was bigger than any act on the label.

That was by design......ask Gladys Knight about that sometime!

[Jimi LaLumia]

a comparison to The Beatles in this case is ridiculous.. The Beatles were singer/SONGWRITERS..The Supremes, like Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, etc were entertainers/performers... the songwriters, who are never given enough credit, are, as far as the 60's is concerned, H/D/H, who delivered more hit singles in total than Lennon/McCartney could ever dream of..

[jillfoster]

You know there is a good chance that it exists. They did release a performance Marvin & Tammi did from 1967 I believe.

If your'e talkin the 1971 performance, I know that doesn't exist.... 1968, I have no clue.

[bradsupremes]

Here is the audio of the 1968 appearance of "Somewhere" and Diana's interview with Carson. Audio is not the best, but you can hear it clearly. I'm willing to bet Motown [[now West Grand Media) has footage of all of their TV appearances in their video vaults including all of the Tonight Show appearances. Sadly the original tape masters were erased by NBC.

https://m.soundcloud.com/user4223482...d-the-supremes

[midnightman]

While race and gender play a role in The supremes not getting the same fanfare for their 50th anniversary of their breakthrough, do bear in mind that very few works that were highly popular at the time of release sustain a lasting cultural influence. The Beatles transcended the British Invasion; The Supremes, on the other hand, while the most popular act on Motown in the 60s, didn't transcend with their work, as polished, popular and well done as it was. In the end, The Supremes and Diana Ross are not larger than Motown and it will be the overall concept of Motown that will last as it was bigger than any act on the label.

You also have to point out that Motown by itself has gotten bigger fanfare for existing than one group out of many in that label. It would be like wondering why the Shirelles [[who were more often or not the first all-black girl group to have a number-one pop hit) or even its own label Scepter didn't fanfare. Motown was a different experience though.

[marv2]

If your'e talkin the 1971 performance, I know that doesn't exist.... 1968, I have no clue.

I heard the story that the wipe the tape clean to reuse, but there has been no real evidence of it.

[smark21]

But Sinatra and a few other singers who didn't write [[or very rarely wrote) have critical credibility and sustained artistic influence because of the level of artistry and emotion they invested in their interpretations/singing of the songs they sung. And their fans take them much more seriously as a result. I used to belong to a Sinatra discussion group; very rarely did they talk about sales and radioplay charts or how many units a record sold, or tuxes. And there was a certain disdain or indifference toward some of Sinatra's more commercial musical endeavors such as Duets or many of his 50s and 60s singles [[albums and the songs on them were preferred topic of conversation as that is where he made his artistic/musical impact). Some drama and gossip, especially as it related to Ava Gardner or Mitch Miller, a producer who tried to get Sinatra to sing novelty songs which were popular in the early 50s. But by and large it was about the albums, interpretations of songs, arrangements and arrangers; in other words, Sinatra's work as a performer/singer/artist [[and actor).

I think Diana Ross is a great entertainer, and while she had the potential to be a great artist, I don't think she fulfilled her potential as she just didn't go deep and intense on a regular enough basis.

[Jaap]

I think Diana Ross is a great entertainer, and while she had the potential to be a great artist, I don't think she fulfilled her potential as she just didn't go deep and intense on a regular enough basis.

This is a very valid point, although one element is missing. The main cultural influence of Diana Ross seems to be not musical but visual; her stage persona, her never-ending costume changes, her hair! Although this has not my personal interest, the importance should not be overlooked, as for many people this is not fluff but instead just as serious as a lot of us take music. Watching current performers such as Beyoncé, Solange, Alicia Keys, Angie Stone, Jill Scott, and many more, you see the Ross influence of visual style -- which they often give her credit for. In fashion magazines, the Ross image is often explicitly featured in photo shoots. In his essay on Black Popular Culture, the late great scholar Stuart Hall wrote: "within the black repertoire, style–which mainstream cultural critics often believe to be the mere husk, the wrapping, the sugar coating on the pill–has become itself the subject of what is going on." In the case of Ross [[both with the Supremes and solo), I think this is definitely the case.

[marv2]

The 30th anniversary of Prince's "Purple Rain" is receiving more media coverage than the Supremes anniversary.

[Crystaledwards]

The 30th anniversary of Prince's "Purple Rain" is receiving more media coverage than the Supremes anniversary.

And deservedly so.

You seriously cannot be comparing Purple Rain, one of the greatest albums from the 80's to Where Did Our Love Go? That has to be the most stupendous comparison I have witnessed this Century.

CE

[ejluther]

Of course someone can compare WDOLG with "Purple Rain"; art is purely subjective and measurable by many, many factors. And as far as measurable cultural impact, I'd put The Supremes' career up next to his Purple Paisleyness anyday and expect them to win, no question...

[jillfoster]

I heard the story that the wipe the tape clean to reuse, but there has been no real evidence of it.

Marv, for a while, you could buy any tonight show you wanted for 100$. The first thing I tried for was that 1971 appearance. Unfortunately, they responded back to me that that episode didn't exist anymore. They said virtually everything from Mid-1973 on still exists, but before that, it's just spotty stuff here and there.

[marv2]

Marv, for a while, you could buy any tonight show you wanted for 100$. The first thing I tried for was that 1971 appearance. Unfortunately, they responded back to me that that episode didn't exist anymore. They said virtually everything from Mid-1973 on still exists, but before that, it's just spotty stuff here and there.

Hey Jill thanks. That's confirmation enough for me. There are local television appearances especially from Detroit that still exists, but the challenge would be how to go about learning about them. I know of one that Mary, Scherrie & Susaye did in June of 1976 for "The Scene" with Nat Morris. Nat posted a brief clip of that appearance on Youtube about a year ago, but has since taken it down.

[Crystaledwards]

Of course someone can compare WDOLG with "Purple Rain"; art is purely subjective and measurable by many, many factors. And as far as measurable cultural impact, I'd put The Supremes' career up next to his Purple Paisleyness anyday and expect them to win, no question...

Prince wrote, arranged, recorded and produced Purple Rain. The Supremes simply recorded Where Did I Love Go. Artistically Prince's Purple Rain wins hands down in my opinion.

CE

[ejluther]

Sure, as long as you accept that "Purple Rain" is a terrific piece of work [[which I do) - but, if you don't like "Purple Rain" or accept its artistic merits then it's easily beaten. Again, art is subjective which is why debates about it are always fun and frustrating. Since we're talking about Prince, I think "Sign O' the Times" is just about his best work...

[bradsupremes]

Marv, for a while, you could buy any tonight show you wanted for 100$. The first thing I tried for was that 1971 appearance. Unfortunately, they responded back to me that that episode didn't exist anymore. They said virtually everything from Mid-1973 on still exists, but before that, it's just spotty stuff here and there.

NBC erased most of the pre-1972 Tonight Shows. It's funny because Johnny Carson's estate posted a clip on Youtube of Marvin Gaye & Tammi Terrell singing "Ain't No Mountain High Enough" from 1967 and it appears to be straight from the master.

I'm willing to bet Motown/West Grand Media has copies in their archives of most of the Motown artists TV appearances especially the Supremes. The Supremes appeared on the Tonight Show in 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, twice in 1969, 1971, and 1975.

[juliusmaloney]

Hi Crystaledwards, so the reason that The Supremes didn't get their dues is because they are simply performers rather than "artists"?

This is as old an argument that continues to reduce the achievements often of female artists, it would have nothing to do with the fact that Motown doesn't exist in the way that EMI [[The Beatles) does as a record label. That the marketing dollars which is ussually what gets publicity out there on things like anniversaries is simply not there or focused on celebrating these milestones. I'm not sure that even the 50th anniversary of Motown was particularly celebrated or capitalised on as it could have been as a label so I'm not surprised no one worked to celebrate the anniversary of a single track [[or group).

I would contest that these artists remain culturally relevant as I would argue that Presley, Sinatra and Diana Ross continue to be touchstones, yes both visually and [[first & foremost) because of the music, beyond whether or not they wrote their songs?

[Crystaledwards]

Sure, as long as you accept that "Purple Rain" is a terrific piece of work [[which I do) - but, if you don't like "Purple Rain" or accept its artistic merits then it's easily beaten. Again, art is subjective which is why debates about it are always fun and frustrating. Since we're talking about Prince, I think "Sign O' the Times" is just about his best work...

Sign O The Times is indeed a masterpiece. I've seen Prince in concert four times, the last time being in Las Vegas last year. He rocked out Purple Rain and that in itself is worth the admission. The show was a mix of a lot of his hits: I Would Die 4 U, When Doves Cry, The Beautiful Ones, etc, and music I wasn't terribly familiar with. Oddly enough, Little Red Corvette was omitted from his performance that night. He is the most singularly talented artist of all time in my opinion. He sings, he dances, he plays guitar, he plays piano, and he is a bandleader and the consummate showman. I will definitely see him again when he tours next year.

The only thing I can criticize is his tardiness. His concerts always start 45 minutes to 90 minutes later than advertised.

CE

[Crystaledwards]

Hi Crystaledwards, so the reason that The Supremes didn't get their dues is because they are simply performers rather than "artists"?

This is as old an argument that continues to reduce the achievements often of female artists, it would have nothing to do with the fact that Motown doesn't exist in the way that EMI [[The Beatles) does as a record label. That the marketing dollars which is ussually what gets publicity out there on things like anniversaries is simply not there or focused on celebrating these milestones. I'm not sure that even the 50th anniversary of Motown was particularly celebrated or capitalised on as it could have been as a label so I'm not surprised no one worked to celebrate the anniversary of a single track [[or group).

I would contest that these artists remain culturally relevant as I would argue that Presley, Sinatra and Diana Ross continue to be touchstones, yes both visually and [[first & foremost) because of the music, beyond whether or not they wrote their songs?

Very compendiously stated juliousmaloney.

CE

[Lulu]

Elephant in the room: they're black and female...won't get the same props as Beatles/Elvis and it's sad. A friend of mine who is a big Beatles fan wouldn't even entertain the milestones of The Supremes as well as the doors they opened.

[juliusmaloney]

Elephant in the room: they're black and female...won't get the same props as Beatles/Elvis and it's sad. A friend of mine who is a big Beatles fan wouldn't even entertain the milestones of The Supremes as well as the doors they opened.

Thank you Lulu as this was my point, and despite the response I got I don't think we were acknowledging that The Supremes remain relevant as many girl groups, or female artists of the same period aren't, so no Crystaledwards I don't feel that "compendiously" this was acknowledged or addressed.

If you are male [[and more often white) you seem to have more gravitas aligned to your career and as to whether you will remain culturally relevant. While pop is most often a relationship between songwriter and artist, this makes it no less impactful or empowering than any number of singer/songwriters.

So yes it is very easy to state that WDOLG is a more powerful and a culturally more impactful musical statement than Purple Rain depending on where you stand on the "what is considered art / music" continuum.

The great thing as ejluther mentioned there are any number of current female artists that give Diana Ross [[and the Supremes) the acknowledgment deserved for a career built on both the visual and most importantly musical boundaries broken.

[skooldem1]

The Supremes hit single, "Where Did Our Love Go" and the summer of 1964

http://peconicpublicbroadcasting.org...-summer-1964-0

[midnightman]

The 30th anniversary of Prince's "Purple Rain" is receiving more media coverage than the Supremes anniversary.

Prince was one of the biggest stars of his era and Purple Rain was considered a game changer in the music industry. Why wouldn't it be celebrated?

[midnightman]

Elephant in the room: they're black and female...won't get the same props as Beatles/Elvis and it's sad. A friend of mine who is a big Beatles fan wouldn't even entertain the milestones of The Supremes as well as the doors they opened.

Maybe because the Beatles had a more personal effect on him and he hardly listens to the Supremes and probably would choose another Motown act over the Supremes. Just maybe. Yeah maybe them being black and women have to do with it too. But why haven't we celebrated it? Why again are we looking at the mainstream [[read: predominantly white) media to validate our [[black) success? That's what we do with Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Sam Cooke, Whitney Houston and Prince, but for some reason, not even black media is celebrating what the Supremes accomplished either...

[marv2]

Maybe because the Beatles had a more personal effect on him and he hardly listens to the Supremes and probably would choose another Motown act over the Supremes. Just maybe. Yeah maybe them being black and women have to do with it too. But why haven't we celebrated it? Why again are we looking at the mainstream [[read: predominantly white) media to validate our [[black) success? That's what we do with Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Sam Cooke, Whitney Houston and Prince, but for some reason, not even black media is celebrating what the Supremes accomplished either...

Has Diana Ross said anything publicly regarding the 50th Anniversary of the Supremes' "Where Did Our Love Go?"

[marv2]

Prince was one of the biggest stars of his era and Purple Rain was considered a game changer in the music industry. Why wouldn't it be celebrated?

It should be celebrated. Now insert the Supremes name for Prince and their first hit record with their era and I would ask you, why isn't that milestone being given the treatment by the media?

[Crystaledwards]

It should be celebrated. Now insert the Supremes name for Prince and their first hit record with their era and I would ask you, why isn't that milestone being given the treatment by the media?

Really!!! LOL

CE

[supremester]

Why? hopefully she is doing a TV special for the FORTIETH Anniversary of Sleepin' instead.

Has Diana Ross said anything publicly regarding the 50th Anniversary of the Supremes' "Where Did Our Love Go?"

[smark21]

I'm heartbroken Miss Ross didn't do anything to commemorate the 30th anniversary of Turn Me Over.

[jobeterob]

I'm heartbroken Miss Ross didn't do anything to commemorate the 30th anniversary of Turn Me Over.

She may be heartbroken that she didn't get Turned Over for the 30th anniversary.

[midnightman]

She missed the 35th anniversary of the release of the Ross album too.

[midnightman]

It should be celebrated. Now insert the Supremes name for Prince and their first hit record with their era and I would ask you, why isn't that milestone being given the treatment by the media?

OK, that didn't make any sense lol

[supremester]

Lack of promotion.

It should be celebrated. Now insert the Supremes name for Prince and their first hit record with their era and I would ask you, why isn't that milestone being given the treatment by the media?

[Motown Eddie]

For me; a big reason why their hasn't been a "50th Anniversary" celebration of The Supremes is the fact that Universal Music [[which owns Motown) hasn't done anything to mark the event [[like release a Super Deluxe Edition of "Where Did Our Love Go"). While Mary Wilson has done her best to remind fans, it's not going to go very far without a big push from UMG.