absolutely, you are a breath of fresh air here.. Salute!
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absolutely, you are a breath of fresh air here.. Salute!
New Ways was really good except Come Together. They should have used something else but the LP was strong.alot of great tracks.think they should have dropped alot of the Broadway style songs and incorporated more of their LP cuts in to their live shows, perhaps it would have helped the album sales a bit. wasn't the track May His Love Shine On Me from this session and a few Mary led tracks, sorry I don't remember the titles as they were removed from You Tube very quickly. I think Motown was tryn to keep the 60s image or maybe Mary was and the producers were tryn to push the group forward. catch 22 maybe. but I do think the Jean led group had some good hits and lp tracks.
I really liked Now The Bitter from the FJ album .kinda funky
It's all been said should have never been cancelled as a single or life beats
well, it WAS a single in Australia..https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/5927644?ev=rb
As from the time of the High Energy album being released, a complete change of image was needed. I would have toned down some of the frantic dance choreography and had them wearing individually designed outfits as opposed to matching sparkly frocks. Show tunes would have been banished from live shows and replaced with some of the many great songs from their recent albums.
There was a lot competition from other girl groups at this time which is why i believe the group had to move a little away from their traditional glamour image to present themselves as something new. I think it might perhaps have been a good idea if they had named themselves the New Supremes from the offset to extinguish from the beginning the obligatory comparissons to Diana.
I never thought "Your My Driving Wheel" a great choice for a single. "I Dont Want To Be Tied Down" or the stunning "We Should Be CloserTogether" sound far more commercial to my ears.
frantic dance is an understatement, the routines were ridiculous to watch and take seriously.. the name Supremes was associated with elegance and there was nothing elegant about those 'escaped from an institution ' speed freak a go go moves. they should have stuck to the stand there and sing program, even for the up tempo dance songs, we knew they were dance songs, we didn't need visual demonstrations.
I agree Ollie, Driving Wheel was a poor choice for the 1st single. It's a decent enough song but not strong enough to be a major hit single. My heart sank when i heard it - not because i didn't like it but i kind of knew it all but signaled the end of the group. There were several other better potential hits on that album , even though as a whole it wasn't as strong as HIGH ENERGY.
It was indeed a very very poor choice for a lead single Bluebrock. As you say there were so many much stronger songs on the album. Bad single choices killed the album which is a great shame as there was potential there. It was great that the group had three lead singers. I wish they could have recorded a least one more album together.
Does anyone know if the group continued to record after the release of their last album, Mary, Scherrie and Susaye? Or what the last song they recorded together as a group?
I think all the songs from MSS were released. I don't think there are any other tracks left except Jean led tracks
I think the dance moves, when properly executed, worked. Problem is they were sloppy. the actual planned choreography for Let Yourself Go works very well. but you mary making mistakes, Susaye not knowing what they were doing at the end and having to keep looking over, etc. For this type of dancing to work, you have to be 100% in sync and hitting your mark.
As for It's All Been Said Before, i've not heard that story before about Mike Curb. very interesting and certainly a possibility. The story i've heard is that Mary and Pedro vetoed IABSB because it's a full Scherrie lead and they insisted on either a Mary lead or co-lead. Motown was wanting Scherrie
There may be a couple more alternate versions still in the vaults from the Scherrie years but very little from what I am told. However there remains many Jean led songs gathering dust in the vault which need to be released. Hopefully that much promised lost and found double cd will one day emerge.
I had asked Andy somewhere [[either here or FB) about the various versions of I'm Gonna Let My Heart. There's a version that the girls used on Soul Train and Amer Bandstand that's not been released. he said that they had looked into it but then discovered Susaye's amazing version so included it instead. apparently there are quite a few mixes of Walking that could be included in future releases.
Wonder if there's enough to do a "Sups" dance mixes release - group and solo. so are there additional dance mix versions of Diana songs from Ross or Boss? 12" version of Red Hot? more unreleased Sup dance tracks? Scherrie songs like Fly or others?
speaking of wrong 1st singles "Red Hot" was so wrong for Miss Wilson.. "I Love A Warm Summer Night" was such a perfect fit for her, custom made.."Red Hot' was too, for lack of a better word, goofy, she didn't sound at home with it.. there were quite a few good singles choices on that album but "Red Hot' wasn't one of them
I thought Mary's album was a stinker with just a couple of decent songs ILAWSN being one of them and "your the light that guides my way~ being the other. Mary's vocals were not good though i do believe she was pregnant whilst recording the album so that could account for that. I think Motown treated her shabbily. Give her a lousy selection of songs, fail to promote it and then drop her like a lead balloon. Mission accomplished. She deserved better than that.
agreed..lots of wrong moves all along the way, sad to say..
Red Hot seems more like a novelty song IMO. unless you're Weird Al or something, having your solo debut being something of a throwaway doesn't seem to strike me as solid career planning. But I think it was clear that the recording deal was simply part of Motown's plan to get her to throw out her law suit.
The 4 Gus Dungeon tracks are far superior to anything on that debut album
Another issue with the MSC and MSS lineups and discos. the wardrobe selections were not wise selections. Long flowing chiffon gowns [[like the green ones or the ones they wore on Tonight Show and He's My Man) are not the right design for elaborate dance moves. Those black and silver sequin 'Jesus Robes' were terrible. not good to dance in, Mary's had about 50 yards of excess material in the sleeves, Susaye looked about 3" tall in hers. The red sequin wrap gowns were much more contemporary, and suited to dancing. some of the others that MSS wore [[the brown stripped ones in the High Energy vids or the fringe Udo Live ones) were better
A GO GO is a go go but there were waiting on studio time to finish the album
[QUOTE=Motown Eddie;342171]Since we can't even get a "Deluxe Edition" for "Supremes A Go-Go" on it's 50th Anniversary, I wouldn't count on any more "Lost & Found/Deluxe Editions" for The '70s Supremes.[/QUOTE
Never say never Eddie. I am not saying they are imminent but they could well appear some day.
I agree with the sentiment; Motown gave MW a contract to "shut her up". Once the LP was released, they fulfilled their obligation and cut her loose. She should have settled for a MULTI-record deal. Coulda, shoulda.
I am surprised though, with Hal Davis producing, that the record didn't fare better. Hal had a lot of success in the 70's with the Jackson 5. I can't believe he would intentionally release a subpar product.
Someone said above that "Red Hot" was more of a novelty song. I tend to agree, with all that screeching and woo-hoos. Mary couldn't have been serious.
And can we just talk for a second on how the 45 referenced Mary "Martin". LOL. Tell me THAT was unintentional.
One more thought:
When I listen to "MSS", I hear magic.
But when I've seen clips of them singing these songs live, for example "IGLMHDTW" from the Mike Douglas Show, it comes across as a HOT MESS. Mary trying to keep up with Scherrie; Susaye blowing both out of the water. For starters, Mary and Susaye's mics are turned up WAY too high. And Mary looks like an glamazon towering over her group mates. The best part is the audience. They are dumbfounded.
I guess it's hard to recreate live what you create in the studio. And I doubt appearances like this did little to boost sales.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzbZbZ4oC5c
MaryB, you really hit the nail on the head. It's just a big...mess. Visually, Mary should have been where Susaye was, Susaye should have been where Scherrie was, and Scherrie should have been in the middle. Maybe Mary had Scherrie's mic? The vocal runs and the choreography is frenetic. The music [[whether a live house band or a pre-recorded track) is just a tad too low in volume.
The interview is fun, but Mary comes across as very...controlling. What was behind Mary's comment about Susaye [[not) getting rich off of her songs on Stevie Wonder's latest album? It was "funny"--it seemed more catty. I love Mary Wilson, but it's clear things were slightly strained in the group at that point. Vocally, in the studio, they sounded terrific...but live, such as on this Mike Douglas appearance, their blend was off, their mics not adjusted to their best advantages. Sigh.
Hasn't it been said that Mary and/or Pedro did not want It's All Been Said Before to be the single........so it was cancelled? A terrible decision.
danman-
I agree with your assessment of Mary "taking over" this interview. There are several instances you can find on YouTube where Mary acts similar. It's interesting that Mary would talk about Diana doing the same exact thing in "Dreamgirl". The only difference, I think, is that Mary wants to make sure that the audience knows this is HER group, meaning, with the "revolving door" of members, SHE is the original. In fact, many of these interviews start out with a nod that she's been there the longest.
I think what is interesting too is many have said that the 70's Supremes, especially by the MSS years, weren't promoted. From what I can tell, the Mike Douglas Show [[where they appeared several times) was a pretty big show. In fact, it won Emmy's in 1977 and 1978. The only difference I see is that, what Ed Sullivan did for the 60's Supremes, Mike COULDN'T do for the 70's Supremes, simply because it was a DAYTIME show. One could surmise that the viewing audience was seniors and housewives; hardly the "record buying public".
I think I remember reading old posts where someone said Cindy mentioned how challenging it was for them to do Stoned Love live. And listen to MJC doing Nathan Jones on Tonight Show - the band is ghastly, although the girls vocals are strong.
By the 70s, the Sup songs were heavily produced and so there's no way to approximate that sound live. multiple layers of vocals, heavy orchestration, etc.
but even with that, I think they could have done more to approximate the sound. On that same Mike Douglas they do Don't Let My Teardrops Bother You. The blend is much better and it's one of Mary's best live vocal performances of the era.
Also my understanding is that by the Scherrie years, Mary or Mary/Pedro were the primary decision makers for the group. Interviews were lead by her, decisions on gowns and song lineups for the show, etc. Although it was a group in that there were 3 vocalists, in regards to the strategic direction it appears primarily to be Mary.
Appearances like this one on "The Mike Douglas Show" didn't do much to help boost sales. Indeed while the vocal talent of the group is there, the frantic dance moves, the way that Mary towers over the other Supremes and the interview [[which shows some of the friction within The Supremes) doesn't do them any favors.
Didn't even hear "It's All Been Said Before" until the CD version of DRATS' "Anthology" in 1987 and always felt that it was just another 'missed opportunity' by Motown. If it's true that Mary and/or Pedro nixed the release of the song as a single then it's their loss. And while "I'm Gonna Let My Heart Do The Walking" was a good foray into '70s Disco, more songs like "It's All Been Said Before" [[with it's 'top 40' feel) might have been the better choice for a single.
I loved "Red Hot" the single ,album and 12" versions. Mary Wilson does "James Brown"! He got play in the clubs and on the radio in select cities. I also like with Donald Bumps did with this remix:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQSnPv3Gyko
didn't like Red Hot. thought the lp was a mess except for Warm Summer Nights and Pick Up The Pieces. they were right on for her voice. there is a single mix of Red Hot that I think is better.
iliked the 70s supremes , there were times when they were great and times when.....not so great . 'BG offered to manage the group ,once with Jean and then when HIgh Energy was doing well he offered again. MW turned him down but complained Motown wasn't helping them. MW turned down Mike Curb because she felt the songs weren't right for the supremes. hmmm I see a pattern. if you want good management,dont turn down the owner if he offers to help and if you want a pop hit , you have to sing pop songs, not disco.
sorry , I think MW killed the supremes along with her husband. I think she stated when turning BG down.....:I don't want to loose control again" but what difference did it make when she was going solo anyway.just my opinion
i Prefered to listen to this line up of the group rather than watch them. Mary demanded centre stage which you cannot really blame her for because she was the only original member, but she both Scherrie and Susaye had more natural talent than Mary and both she and they knew it. This line up was never going to last long just as the JMC or JML versions weren't. It is a pity they couldn't have got along better because they could produce magic in the studio.