A writer friend of mine wants to interview a big fan of Ike's music for an upcoming article in conjunction with Ike's pending birthday.
Please IM me or SDF or email me if you're interested.
Thx....
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A writer friend of mine wants to interview a big fan of Ike's music for an upcoming article in conjunction with Ike's pending birthday.
Please IM me or SDF or email me if you're interested.
Thx....
Hi!
The other side of the story:
http://sl-prokeys.com/ike/iketurner.htm
Best regards
Heikki
That is a very disturbing link. This guy has the gall to call Tina a liar just because he never saw anything and exalt Ike to saint level. Delusional bias from someone living in their own fantasy world.Quote:
Originally Posted by heikki
Ike was always real nice to me on the several occasions I got to hang with them after shows.From what I saw, Ike was nice to all the fans[[unlike the movie).
From what I hear, Tina is not all that she appears to be now and to the media. Tina was pretty "gangsta" herself back in the day. She had to be to hang with guys like Ike Turner all those years. LOL!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by antceleb12
Hi!
Although slightly off-topic, I put that Ike link over there four days ago secretly hoping that it might stir a lively conversation.
The relationship between Ike and Tina has occupied my mind a lot, from the media manipulation point of view - a demon vs. virtuous princess.
My argument is that Tina's book and the big-budget movie based on it have made us believe that the story portrayed in those pieces of work is absolutely true. How many of you have had even the slightest doubt that perhaps they don't reflect the real course of events?
However, it's only her side of the story. The other side has been pushed back. For instance, only a few people took interest in Ike's book titled "Taking my name back."
What if it didn't go that way? Or it was the other way around? Or it was just a carefully planned career move? Perhaps each one of us can now today stop for a minute and think about the impact of the book and the movie in terms of us locking it in our minds as the gospel truth. I know it happened to me, until I started reading opposite views. It's not only that Steve Leigh fellow in that link, but some other blues artists, who had worked with Ike in the 60s and 70s and have since come to defend him.
I'm not saying that Ike was a saint; far from it. Coke harmed him a lot. But most of the veterans in the business can tell you that he was immensely talented and one of the fore-runners in our music, especially in the 50s and 60s. Please have a look at the discography on the last page of that link. He taught Tina almost everything she knows in show business.
Don't get me wrong. I like Tina's music a lot and I have most of her recordings, both as a duo, and solo - including the latest ones. However, my absolute favourites are some of her mid-60s ballads. [["Tell Her I'm Not Home" etc.).
These thoughts are not meant to provoke. They're only food for thought, because, as I stated above, this matter has been bothering me for a long time.
Best regards
Heikki
Heikki, once again, I owe you a great,big THANKS! I was being as polite as I could be in my above response! hehehehehehehehe.......Quote:
Originally Posted by heikki
I too had to question Tina's version of events in recent years and it is true that there are many people still around that know the real deal which was not portrayed in the movie or in her book.
The first question anyone should ask is......."If Ike were beating her up so badly and for so long, then why did she stay with him for decades?"! I am going to leave that question out here for a little while to see what others think.
Marv
Heikki and Marv, I'm with you ! I always thought the movie was into exageration and I didn't like it.
Another intelligent comment can be found in the great Bettye Lavette's book "A Woman Like Me" :
"I hated how Hollywood pictured Ike as a sadistic ogre. There was much more to the man than the movie revealed. Without Ike, there would be no Tina. He created her, reshaping her to become another person. Offstage he called her Ann. Onstage she was Tina. Through her long years with Ike, hundreds of men wanted Tina. Hundreds of men would have whisked her off in a hot minute. Tina could have left Ike at will. She chose to stay because she wanted to learn the lessons he had to teach. And those lessons resulted in her becoming a millionaire many times over."
^^That is not an intelligent comment.
For the record, I too believe the book and movie were exaggerated. It was Tina's side of things. On the other hand, those here acting like they don't understand why an abused woman might stay with her abuser, you need to do some research.
Nope! I understand everything! Some abused women stay because they are weak. Tina Anna Mae Bullock Turner was not a weak woman! Do you think she never did anything to Ike?Quote:
Originally Posted by skooldem1
We don't know. To my knowledge, Ike has never said so or countered her story. Therefor, I have no justified reason to believe otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
I hate that kind of question. It comes from a deep lack of understanding of abuse, both physical and emotional. For one, the whole mental and emotional connection to one's abuser is so great and so complex that no one - not even the victim themselves - can truly understand why one would stay with their abuser. It's not for us to say they are "weak." Abuse can make an otherwise "strong" person "weak," in that it can damage one's psyche, emotional strength, and mental strength. Secondly, if one were being abused, what's to stop that abuser from doing worse if the victim left or spoke out? Unless you have walked a mile in an abuse victim's shoes, no one should pass judgement or question one's decision to stay with their abuser. Tina was not the first, and certainly not the last victim to stay with one's abuser. There is a clear trend in this kind of victim behavior.Quote:
The first question anyone should ask is......."If Ike were beating her up so badly and for so long, then why did she stay with him for decades?"! I am going to leave that question out here for a little while to see what others think.
Who knows whether or not Tina's story is exaggerated? Could it be that years of abuse have psychologically damaged Tina? Could she be remembering things a little differently? Possibly. However, to call her a "liar" or saying she is purposefully twisting or making up her story is wrong. I have seen enough women go through intense abusive relationships to know that making allegations and judgements is damaging and hurtful.
Ike used hard drugs. Those drugs can cause violent behavior in those who otherwise don't exhibit those behaviors. It could be possible that Ike, who I believe already possessed a temper and potential for erraticism without drugs, became violent and abusive on drugs. There is no doubt he contributed greatly to music, but that doesn't mean he's exonerated from the charges.
It seems a lot of victims of abuse are questioned heavily for their story's validity. Not a lot of people can fathom that such events could actually transpire. Until someone shows me evidence of Ike HIMSELF telling his story, rather than the biased, clearly subjective angle based off of personal friendship with Ike, then refuse to cast a shadow of a doubt on Tina's story.
I do not believe Tina Turner and yes, Ike has countered her claims in several interviews that are up on Youtube.
Ike Turner Interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPNEEm1vRGc
Arsenio Hall Show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7iVooeR5HE
Arsenio has no love for Tina.
Australian Interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ciVKPTnLAQ
On Howard Stern.........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFspacipJBY
Yeah, well what did Tina do to cause that?Quote:
Originally Posted by skooldem1
There is something very off with him in this interview. Around 1:00 you see a glimpse into his potential violence. Why would he slap her for being sad? So what Tina says is a lie and what Ike says is true because...?Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
He hasn't outright denied anything. The subject of abuse was rather lightly touched upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
Nah, they cancel each other out! I don't have to believe Tina or Ike, although Ike appears more forthcoming with the truth because he admits that he was not perfect then or now. Tina does not incriminate herself in anyway.........that in itself makes her suspect in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by antceleb12
He just admitted to hitting and punching her.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
Tina's testimony here is crucial. She didn't see or have anything to do with the movie, so whatever may be exaggerated about the movie is not of Tina's doing.
How so? Tina has said [[even in one of the interviews posted) that she knew going into it that Ike had his ways with women. She never once said she was totally innocent going into it. She knew, and she admits that.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
She didn't tell that it was she that seduced Ike in the first place............. Tina has beat up other women that Ike had been involved with.Quote:
Originally Posted by antceleb12
So using your inane logic one could say that Tina Turner manufactured every slap, punch, kick, cut and bruise. Please correct me if I am wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
I cannot and will not sit back while you pat the late Ike Turner on the back when in reality, Tina Turner is lucky she got away from Ike Turner alive and healthy.
Can you even comprehend that domestic abuse is not simply a "momentary loss of temper." The batterer makes a conscious decision to batter and stores up anger and frustration all day to specifically take it out on their target. it is anger very well managed. It is a repetitive and ongoing technique used by the abuser to enforce control over their partner or spouse through the use of fear of future or continued violence.
Battered women are often seriously injured. Over 30% of the women seeking care in hospital emergency rooms are there because they have been injured by their spouses or partners. Battered women are more likely to suffer miscarriages or to give birth prematurely.
Are you aware that many victims and survivors of domestic violence are killed by their partners even after they have left the abuser?
Just remember this next time you dismiss a battered woman's claims Marv2. Domestic violence is never a one-time occurrence, and usually escalates in frequency and severity over time, and could result in death
CE
Look, we are not here to argue amongst ourselves or to prove that Tina Turner is a World Class liar. We are only stating opinions based on observations and real life experiences of people we have actually met. So your statistics mean nothing when it comes to this discussion. I personally do not believe that Ike did all that she said he did and I also believe that she was not innocent at all to anything that went on between them. Tina Turner was more of a rough neck than her public could ever imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystaledwards
So Tina Turner is a "World Class liar" and a rough neck? Your words, not mine. Don't you think your views are warped and rather misogynistic?Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
I am basing my observations on women I know who have been abused and beaten by violent men like Ike Turner
Most decent people are emphatic about ending violence against women. I guess you are in the minority.
CE
You are not honest or can't read and comprehend at the same time. I SAID that we are not here to prove that Tina Turner is a World Class Liar. And yes, I believe Tina Turner was a rough neck , a good ole fashion alley cat. I also have ZERO f%^ks to give about what you think of me.............Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystaledwards
I think most here are aware that honesty and you have never shared a pillow Marvin. You clearly implied that Tina Turner is a world class liar. If you didn't want to make that implication you would simply have stated that you didn't believe her story. Your use of "Alley Cat" and "rough neck" speaks volumes about your apparent indifference towards battered women.
A lot of men learned to disrespect women because of what they have seen from their own parents or grandparents. If a young boy constantly sees women being castigated or slapped before him, they then derive the opinion that this is just how women should be treated. I have no idea how Ike Turner was raised, but clearly the late Mr. Turner didn't have any respect for women.
The effects of demeaning, abusing and disrespecting women in our society sends significant and disturbing messages to young girls everywhere and is detrimental to our society at large. Men must confront the sexist and cultural stereotypes that have been indoctrinated in them from the time they children. Needless to say, the media must also do its part in helping to dispel dangerously pernicious myths associated with women.
Ike Turner may have been a great musician but any man who beats a woman to a pulp is low, worthless and evil.
CE
We have no proof that he ever beat a woman to a pulp! Why did women, all the way to the end of his life continue to gravitate towards him? hmmmmm?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystaledwards
You know this kind of reminds me of how so many people tried to jump on Bobby Brown and blame him for Whitney's problems. They just assumed he was the cause of everything.
For those who wonder why women stay in abusive relationships [[and aren't die in the wool misogynists) the Domestic Abuse Project compiled a list based on focus groups with women who eventually were able to get out of such relationships.
http://www.domesticabuseproject.com/...ns-women-stay/
Fortunately, your words hold little weight. You appear to have this archaic belief that an abusive action is somehow justified because of how the woman acts. Tina Turner was demoralized and demeaned by her former husband. She was probably far too frightened to report him to the authorities and even though cuts and bruises heal, Ike’s repeated beatings probably stripped away her pride and forced her to compromise her own self-worth and self-respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
When Ike Turner was confronted by an Australian reporter about beating up Tina, he didn’t seem in any way ashamed or remorseful, in fact he seemed rather proud. He intimated that the punching, slapping and abuse shaped Tina for stardom.
Marvin, thankfully you are in a very small minority of men defending abusers. Maybe you want that validation for your own warped point of view, which is astonishing and disturbing. Either way, you are betting the wrong pony pony in this race.
CE
Hopefully Marvin will read this and change his superannuated views on domestic violence.Quote:
Originally Posted by smark21
CE
You are talking about a woman that would go on stage, in front of large crowds of strangers shaking her ass while barely wearing anything as far back as the mid -1960s! Oh I'm sure she felt demoralized, huh! Give me a break! LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystaledwards
Tina Turner was not frightened of anything. She once dared one of Ike's girlfriends who had a gun pulled on her to pull the trigger! Nah, Anna Mae was no shrinking violet and you have been duped into believing she is akin to Poor Polly Sweetbread.........hehehehehehe....
Ike should never raise his hand to her or any other woman. My problem with all this is that I do not believe things went down the way they protrayed them in the movie or how Tina wrote them in her book! I heard Ike had written a book. I am going to research to see if it was ever published. If so, I am going to get it and read his side of things because I know that there are woman that will make life a living Hell for some guys knowing all along that the law and societal norms with back them up! Look how long it's taken with Jodi Arias ?!
If it does not say that woman also contribute to domestic violence, then I have no reason to read it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystaledwards
Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
It is amazing how twisted and warped your logic can be.To most decent people it is inconceivable that a man would systematically victimize his wife or partner. The monstrousness of it renders it unimaginable for most, but apparently not for you Marvin. In this discussion of Tina Turner's husband abusing her, you immediately and even instinctively assume that in some fundamental way Tina is to blame, that her perception is suspect, that she’s exaggerating or even downright lying. You proudly point out that Ms. Turner would go on stage, in front of large crowds of strangers shaking her ass while barely dressed. How could this woman ever be demoralized you incredulously ask? Using your logic, is a woman in a short skirt walking alone at night partly to blame if she is raped?
Is it beyond your comprehension that most abusers are masterful manipulators.Wife abusers are sociopaths. They could talk the stink off a skunk. So you go ahead Marvin,research the angelic Ike Turner and keep believing that Tina provoked Ike and is partly to blame for her years of violent abuse. I hope every woman In Detroit, Toledo and Long Island avoids you like the plague.
CE
Thanx to the original poster for giving me incentive to play a bit of an Ike & Tina marathon.
As for the converstaions regarding their private lives,none of you win because none of you were there.
You all need to be slapped! haha
Oh Kev, come on! hehehehehehehehe....................Quote:
Originally Posted by imnokid
We've been down this road before but I'll say this again:
Ike Turner was NOT the first, last or only iconic musical figure to ever physically assault a women whether she be his wife, girlfriend, lover or even just a groupie. But, and this is a
big but, he seems to be one of the only ones that almost nobody ever forgave or looked at
aside from his transgression. James Brown, Jackie Wilson, Billy Eckstein among others all got
a pass and whenever their names are mentioned everybody and their momma chimes in
on their greatness but say Ike Turner and immediately: That's the guy who beat up Tina Turner. Do I believe What's Love...depicted their lives accurately? No. No biopic ever has.
Do I believe Ike ever struck Tina? Yes, and I'm sure more than once but that was their relationship at that time, he's gone, she's moved on and it's over. I still enjoy his contributions to the music and wish for more focus on that. I was pissed that the library
here in NY refused to stock his book...O well...