http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGptF9Kf98w
Many thanks to Mactheox for the YouTube posting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGptF9Kf98w
Many thanks to Mactheox for the YouTube posting.
Were Mary and Cindy's mics at the Copa? LOL.
This live version makes me think that the Andantes were dubbed in to hit the high notes of the background on the 45.
Just like on You Can't Hurry Love live ~ the background doesn't sound the way it sounds on the 45.
Not being able to hear Mary and Cindy is a disgrace. Cindy can hit the high notes just fine.
I still think this song is about Florence leaving/breaking away from the Supremes.
Reflections is a great song. Sounds great here. Good strong vocal from Diana.
I'm not a huge fan of Reflections - although when Miss Ross does it now, I like it better. I don't hear Mary & Flo on it period - perhaps they are there, I just can't hear it and I don't like the bg arrangement or mix at all on the record anyway.
Flo is not on You Can't Hurry Love so I guess that's why it sounds different. It might be why she went over the edge as it was their biggest record in two years and she wasn't involved. Unless you are old, you won't know how huge that record was - the charting for 2 weeks at #1 doesn't tell the whole story.
I always heard that song as the woman and her female friend all hanging out with her [[lead singers) boyfriend, and then all of a sudden, the lead singer is left behind because her girlfriend has taken her boyfriend from her.
I can hear Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard on "Reflections". Mary still sings a line of her background part as a part of the lead she sings in concert now.
I totally agree with you, Ross--the "someone's missin'" of the three is the lead on the song. Any connection to it being a reference to Flo or the song being about Flo strikes me as a real stretch. A stretch that went "Pop!"
On this version of REFLECTIONS, Diana's voice is certainly much more prominent than that of Mary and Cindy. But I can still hear both clearly, and they sound great to me. But the sound level differences are apparent; could have been the mics or possibly adjustments made later in the processing of the recording. Live recordings can be dicey--but I always preferred equal time and space given to Flo, Mary, and Cindy. But the given seemed to be that it wouldn't be given. And live performances were best on those rare occasions when it was. On the 3 times that I got to attend performances by Diana, Mary, and Flo, I was there to see and hear Diana, Mary, and Flo.
Well if you think about the song Reflections, never once does the lyrics refer to a boyfriend/husband/lover, but rather the sadness and heartbreak over a broken relationship/friendship. And wouldn't HDH have known about the conflict and fights within the Supremes? The lyrics reflect on when the Supremes first got started before all the hits and fame when they were all just friends dreaming of making it big and the love that they all shared for one another. And then it was gone.
The version of "Reflections" on the "No. 1's" album has drastically improved background vocals, including the oft-excluded bridge line sung by Mary and Flo.
For a while, I thought it was the Andantes [[or at least an Andante) on the record. The back-ups don't sound like Mary and Flo [[at least not to me), and it's always bothered me that the back-up vocals were so pushed back and muddled.
It became clear to me after the 45 of Stop in the Name of Love, that the sound I thought was the Supremes was often the sound of the Andantes.
Florence Ballard you can pick out here and there; but to me, Mary Wilson and the Andantes blend together way too much and I can't separate them very well except if there are high notes; if there are high notes [[like in Love Child and a part of the background in Reflections) I now know or expect that is the Andantes and not the Supremes.
Mary Wilson is very much on "Reflections." The Andantes as a group are not on the song. There are only two women singing and one of them is Mary. The other lady is for you to decide...
History is defined in many ways. That history also could include The Andantes or Marlene Barrow. That history could just be Miss Ross as they hit #1 3 times without the public knowing anything but Ross' voice, HDH & the Funk Bros. Not all Supremes fans fell in love with all three. Some only liked Flo. Many liked all 3. Many only liked Miss Ross. I fell in love with Miss Ross first. Period. Then all three. When I first saw DMF in 1966, they were all goddesses in the round - always one facing us. Typical of Miss Ross however, by the time they got to I Hear A Symphony, she ramped it up enough that, while still wonderful, left the other two in the dust. Lots of fans only liked one or two. I didn't accept Cindy until Youtube. I was a fool not to see she was the ideal replacement. I see The Supremes as an entity of many pieces with the essentials being HDH, the Funk Bros and Miss Ross.
Brad: Is the "other lady" hitting the high notes in the background on Reflections? Is it Cindy? Or Louvain Demps?
One song I hear Mary Wilson clearly on is Where Did Our Love Go. That is one song on which I do not hear Florence Ballard, but Mary is clearly there.
I think many Supremes fans need to take a listen to the 45 of Stop in the Name of Love and relearn the voices.
Other than Diana, nothing is clear any more.
I just played 3 versions of Reflections. I believe that Mary and Flo are doing the "oooooooooo's" and The Andantes are doing the muddled, nearly indecipherable backing words. I simply cannot discern Mary there at all, and only a maybe for Flo. I know there are those who hear Mary & Flo where they are not, so who is to say. Personally, I think the worded bgs sound exactly like those on Forever Came Today - and I don't care for either.
If you had the ability to listen without prejudice, you would clearly hear Mary Wilson singing in the lower voice on this record that I and everyone else in the World has heard for 45-46 years now!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWLPnhFNqT0
And it sure sounds like Flo's high operatic soprano to me!
Louvain Demps recently said the andantes are in fact on stop in the name of love but she also could hear Florence on the song. Before you go and say "we don't know which version she heard" it was the version from the number ones which is the 45 version except it is extended.
Regarding "Reflections" I don't really care who is doing the backgrounds they sound like crap, it could be Flo...her voice wasn't holding up that well around that period neither was Diana's. Diana's vocal is the only thing about the song that I like and the funky intro.
Mary is so effective in WDOLG - impeccable. Flo fans could be having fits that Flo is buried, but don't. HDH/Motown were so adept at use of Bgs - they didn't care who was who - they wanted to make the best record possible. The grammatically incorrect slogan"It's what's in the grooves that counts" says it all.
I don't listen with prejudice, I just didn't hear it. It's funny coming from someone who has clearly shown a lack of objectivity for years and is known for it [[along with your homophobic remarks like the word "faggy" you used the other day.) I can just imagine your rant had the tables been turned. Anyway, after listening to this way-too-fast 45, I agree that I think I can hear the barely audible Mary, finally. I thank you and still don't like the bg arrangement.
Mary is singing the lower part of the harmony. The higher notes are "the other lady." It's not Cindy, but Louvain has said she didn't like "Reflections." Possibly could be her. Then again, Marlene Barrow was Florence's stand-in in concert and previous recording sessions. Could be her as well... A lot was going on at the time and a lot of tension.
I wondered if it was Louvain. I don't really know the Cindy or Marlene voice well enough to identify them but it was pretty clear to me that it wasn't Mary doing the high parts and there is a similarity in that sound to some of the background in Love Child and Stop in the Name of Love.
I, too, hear Mary very clearly and Flo ever so faintly in the background throughout ' Reflections' . And I believe it was mixed that way for a definite reason and purpose.
The track [[sans vocals) for 'The Happening', 'Reflections' and 'In And Out Of Love' were recorded in Detroit on March 2, 1967- the first 2 were used for the released versions; for 'In And Out Of Love' the music track was rerecorded on April 20, 1967 in L.A.
In "the Lost Supreme: The Life Of A Dreamgirl Florence Ballard" Peter Benjaminson quotes Flo's recollection/objection surrounding the recording of "The Happening" as regards Berry Gordy's desire to add the Andantes to the background vocal mix:
"Look, Berry, we're getting paid for doing these tunes. I'm not going to work and have these other girls singing with me. ...To me, they're not the group; they're just a whole bunch of other people.... We started off singing three together, and I think it should stay like that."
Berry did not add the Andantes to 'The Happening'.
But then, when 'Reflections' was recorded it appears that Berry honored Flo's wishes again, but used them to turn the tables on her. Mary is quite audible throughout but Flo can only be heard mixed very, very low [[in certain spots) in the background.
When released, 'Reflections' attained the #2 spot on the pop chart- a great showing considering the fact that the Supremes' backgrounds were not as audibly clear as they had been in 'The Happening'.
For 'In and Out Of Love', background vocals were recorded by Mary and Flo on June 12, 1967 and by Andantes on June 13, 1967. By the time the single was released [[October 25, 1967) Flo had been out of and Cindy in the group for 3 months- hence the strong presence of the Andantes in the background on that release- again possibly sending a message to Flo.
One possible thing that confuses listeners about this single is that we are used to hearing Flo on the top note and Mary on the bottom. Here the voices are reversed [[the tables are turned in a second way, so to speak). I definitely hear Mary ascending to a near falsetto to hit the higher notes. Flo has that bite to her voice that is so distinctive- and it is present in the lower notes where she can be heard. It wouldn't surprise me if an alternate master were found in the vaults that included a full background vocal by Flo. It appears that only bits and pieces of Flo's background vocal are added for effect and to possibly get a clear message to Flo to not challenge the boss, Mr. Gordy, so openly.
I don't know who that is, but that doesn't sound like Florence at all.
first,it is one of my favorites and I like the version on the @1's cd the best.
this was going to be the final single by the Supremes in 1967 with a farwell tour and a returning Flo Ballard. things obviously changed and the group continued with Cindy Birdsong and the song was deleted from the Greatest Hits album and replaced with Standing At The Crossroads.
I don't know who told you that, but that is not what Eddie & Brian Holland said. They both have said that they used Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard on their productions. On the hits and otherwise. They recorded them as a group! They did care to use the actual group members when recording. Frank Wilson had made a similar statement.
They weren' that devious! All this shit people on here are making up or repeating is nothing more than urban myths! They weren't sending Flo any messages. It reminds me that most of you don't even know what type of people that were at Motown. If Berry wanted to say something to Flo , he would just tell her flat out to her face and vice-versa. There were none these "covert operations" going on. Some of this makes me laugh, some of it makes me angry that people just make stuff up and post it! Everyone at Motown were not afraid of Berry Gordy Jr. These were all neighborhood people in those days. I can't explain it, but all this weird crazy talk has nothing to do with the real Motown.
It has been said that the Andantes were used because DMC were touring constantly or doing TV appearances or being fitted for costumes and it just didn't make sense to have Mary and Cindy in the studio for mere album fillers. The big money was in live appearances.
I was thinking the same thing. The "#1's" version has the extended ending with just Mary & Flo [[or Marlene, or Jane, or Susie) singing a held out "Reflections" almost a capella. I want to say it's the Andantes, but I've read too much about how it was Florence's last recording session with the Supremes. Of course, Florence and Mary could have recorded their parts and then other voices could have been overdubbed or something...but I've never heard of them doing that with "Reflections" as I have with the other known tracks.
Here's a version that someone "enhanced" the background vocals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRjCqaX2IvQ
I still can't tell LOL. If there's one thing that frustrates me, it's the mixing on the background vocals!
What I don't understand is why does every background have to be analyzed as an equation: 40% Mary, 10% Florence, 5% Louvain, 8.5% Jackie, etc. Florence and Mary were more than capable of providing background harmonies. That's why they were hired in the first place. If you listen to "Back in My Arms Again", you'll notice it's only Mary and Florence in the background and they do a bang up job!
In another area, if Lynda and Scherrie were so great, why did they need 3...count them...3...backup singers on the Return to Love tour?
Now that's something to think about!
and then you have "Baby Love" "Back in My Arms Again" and Nothing But Heartaches, that are all exclusivly Mary and Flo, as well as , My World Is Empty without you [[yes its Mary and Flo) "Love is LIke an Itching" You Keep Me Hangin On, & The Happening. All Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard, and no other background help. Which means the majority of the singles are Diana Mary and Florence only.