what if Someday HAD been Diana's lead single as a solo?

let's say No Matter What Sign [[or some other tune) had been a hit and Diana left the group in mid 69 or so.

the story goes that Berry wanted Someday to be her first solo single. of course it's a great song so i'm pretty sure it would have been a hit. So would Bristol have then produced her first album? the tone/lyric definitely talks about the past and would that have been a good thing, especially given how they were trying to move her forward?

while Reach out and touch wasn't a massive hit, it led to Mountain which became her signature song!

I'll get boo'ed, lol.

How much difference was there in Diana's sound from 1968/1969 with the DRATS into 1970/1971/1972 solo?

Many of her DRATS singles in that era could have been solo, and many of her solo singles could have been DRATS hits. Often "Ain't" is mistaken as a Supremes cut.

"Remember Me" is very Supremes sounding.
"ROAT" is very Supremes sounding.

We talk often how Mary used the "Supremes" visually into her solo career, but there's never a lot of discussion how Diana used the "Supremes" sound, well into LSTB era, and beyond.

BG played it very safe in launching Diana's solo career.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

let's say No Matter What Sign [[or some other tune) had been a hit and Diana left the group in mid 69 or so.

the story goes that Berry wanted Someday to be her first solo single. of course it's a great song so i'm pretty sure it would have been a hit. So would Bristol have then produced her first album? the tone/lyric definitely talks about the past and would that have been a good thing, especially given how they were trying to move her forward?

while Reach out and touch wasn't a massive hit, it led to Mountain which became her signature song!

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It likely wouldn't have been any different from how it actually turned out. When "Someday" hit, Johnny Bristol had the advantage to produce both Diana and the Jean-Supremes next singles, but somehow he lost out on both and frankly to better songs I might add. He cut "These Things Will Keep Me Loving You" initially for the Supremes but then reassigned the track to Diana. He kept the winning formula as he did with "Someday" and even used the same guitar lick. The thinking was it would be her first single as a solo artist, but then "Reach Out And Touch" was selected. It then got bumped to being the B-side, but then got replaced with "Dark Side Of The World."

The same happened with "Life Beats." It was earmarked as their first single with Jean and even got a mix and assigned catalog number but then "Up The Ladder To The Roof" was chosen.

Also during this time Berry had Diana working with Bones Howe along with Ashford & Simpson. I think he was trying out different folks to see where she fit best so there was no guarantee Johnny Bristol would have won out.

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Originally Posted by marybrewster

I'll get boo'ed, lol.

How much difference was there in Diana's sound from 1968/1969 with the DRATS into 1970/1971/1972 solo?

Many of her DRATS singles in that era could have been solo, and many of her solo singles could have been DRATS hits. Often "Ain't" is mistaken as a Supremes cut.

"Remember Me" is very Supremes sounding.
"ROAT" is very Supremes sounding.

We talk often how Mary used the "Supremes" visually into her solo career, but there's never a lot of discussion how Diana used the "Supremes" sound, well into LSTB era, and beyond.

BG played it very safe in launching Diana's solo career.

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see i see her A&S stuff as having the potential to have been DRATS content but, naturally, she had grown as a singer and was pushing herself and being pushed into new directions. had DMC stayed together, i agree. the group would have sounded amazing doing pretty much any of the content on DR 70, EIE or Surrender

but the singer Diana Ross was different in 68 versus 71. she was approaching the A&S material differently, as any singer would. she was 4 years old, had had new life experiences, etc. I think there are hints during 68 of what was to come - i think LC and Discover Me showed us what Diana Ross was evolving into as a singer.

it's such an amazing and fun progression

62 - let me do the right way
64 - baby love
66 - you can't hurry love
67 - reflections
68 - love child
69 - someday
70 - mountain, i wouldn't change the man he is, dark side of the world
71 - and if you see him, all the befores
72 - all of the Lady content
73 - touch me in the morning

wow!! just wow!

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Originally Posted by bradsupremes

It likely wouldn't have been any different from how it actually turned out. When "Someday" hit, Johnny Bristol had the advantage to produce both Diana and the Jean-Supremes next singles, but somehow he lost out on both and frankly to better songs I might add. He cut "These Things Will Keep Me Loving You" initially for the Supremes but then reassigned the track to Diana. He kept the winning formula as he did with "Someday" and even used the same guitar lick. The thinking was it would be her first single as a solo artist, but then "Reach Out And Touch" was selected. It then got bumped to being the B-side, but then got replaced with "Dark Side Of The World."

The same happened with "Life Beats." It was earmarked as their first single with Jean and even got a mix and assigned catalog number but then "Up The Ladder To The Roof" was chosen.

Also during this time Berry had Diana working with Bones Howe along with Ashford & Simpson. I think he was trying out different folks to see where she fit best so there was no guarantee Johnny Bristol would have won out.

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LB is a great song but yeah. in the end the Frank Wilson material was just beyond compare. Bristol did at least get the B side with Bill. but wow. talk about some wildly different productions - Life Beats vs These Things vs Bill When Are You Coming Home. all great songs but so different

I think EIE would have probably been exactly what DRATS would sound like in 1970. I'm unconvinced that most of the A&S stuff would have worked for the group, especially the Surrender stuff. I used to roll my eyes every time I heard "Mountain" on the radio credited to the Supremes, usually Diana Ross and the Supremes. It sounds nothing like a Supremes record to me, but obviously with Diana's voice being the lead voice on the hits, and thus the identifiable sound associated with the group, for some it was just the common denominator thing. I'm betting there were times [[are times) when "My Whole World Ended" is credited to the Temptations and not David Ruffin.

I'm glad things worked out like it did. Diana may have been the only Supreme on "Someday" but it really seems like a no brainer that the song signaled the end of 2/3s of the original group going their separate ways. I think "Sign" had the potential to go top 10, but I don't think it would have gone number one. "Someday" hitting number one was a perfect end.

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

I think EIE would have probably been exactly what DRATS would sound like in 1970. I'm unconvinced that most of the A&S stuff would have worked for the group, especially the Surrender stuff. I used to roll my eyes every time I heard "Mountain" on the radio credited to the Supremes, usually Diana Ross and the Supremes. It sounds nothing like a Supremes record to me, but obviously with Diana's voice being the lead voice on the hits, and thus the identifiable sound associated with the group, for some it was just the common denominator thing. I'm betting there were times [[are times) when "My Whole World Ended" is credited to the Temptations and not David Ruffin.

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but to that point Stoned Love and Nathan Jones sounded nothing like DRATS material either. with Jean, the girls definitely moved into a very new direction with their sound, as did Diana. I think that, had diana stayed with the group, they would definitely have needed a new direction. clearly a lot of the stuff we did get with DRATS wasn't all that sensational. so would the group have moved and done some of the A&S or some of the Frank things? of course we don't know what would have happened but i could see the DMC lineup still tackling some of these songs and being successful

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

I'm glad things worked out like it did. Diana may have been the only Supreme on "Someday" but it really seems like a no brainer that the song signaled the end of 2/3s of the original group going their separate ways. I think "Sign" had the potential to go top 10, but I don't think it would have gone number one. "Someday" hitting number one was a perfect end.

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Perfect exit song. A fake group singing fake sentiments.:p

A great transitional song, for sure - a look back while also looking forward with some regret and sadness. If it had been billed as DR solo, I think it would have worked fine, but sending the wrong message/approach for a first solo single. ANMHE worked so well - and should have been her first solo single - because it was a triumphant anthem about moving forward and upward. SWBT as the first solo single about something ending would have been a soggier, sadder start. I think that’s why ROAT didn’t work so well, it was too world-weary to feel like an exciting solo debut, IMO.

I like "These Things" will keep me loving you. If then released, it would have have been a hit. I don't know why Motown missed this opportunity. Here's a reworking of the song. Focus on a renaming of the song to "Keep Me Loving You". Sing "These things" on the low beat than upgrade the voice scale to "Keep Me Loving You". This song reworked can be a hit. The Kiss song: "I was Made for Loving You" was a monster hit and has similar vibe.

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Originally Posted by ejluther

A great transitional song, for sure - a look back while also looking forward with some regret and sadness. If it had been billed as DR solo, I think it would have worked fine, but sending the wrong message/approach for a first solo single. ANMHE worked so well - and should have been her first solo single - because it was a triumphant anthem about moving forward and upward. SWBT as the first solo single about something ending would have been a soggier, sadder start. I think that’s why ROAT didn’t work so well, it was too world-weary to feel like an exciting solo debut, IMO.

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you summed up much better what i was trying to say. i think the retrospective aspect of Someday would have been all wrong for a lead single for someone being billed as THE next megastar. it could almost sound like a touch of regret for leaving

excellent point ..... if you're already looking to getting back together ...why are you going then ??

Too bad the song didn't exist yet .... the perfect first "new Supremes" song would've been ............... are you ready ......... WE WILL SURVIVE


so now GO !!! walk out the door !!!!
hee haw!!

“”Someday” was the perfect song to bow out on, while “Reach Out & Touch” proved just as valuable a song despite it not being a smash.
I really wish Motown had tested the water by releasing deeper cuts such as “Dark Side Of The World” or “I Wouldn’t change The Man He Is”.
Gordy always seemed in a rush to return her to safer pop waters.

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Originally Posted by sup_fan

you summed up much better what i was trying to say. i think the retrospective aspect of Someday would have been all wrong for a lead single for someone being billed as THE next megastar. it could almost sound like a touch of regret for leaving

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Yes! That very tone of regret would have been out of place/character for her debut - not to mention how genuinely disingenuous it would have been!

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Originally Posted by RanRan79

I'm glad things worked out like it did. Diana may have been the only Supreme on "Someday" but it really seems like a no brainer that the song signaled the end of 2/3s of the original group going their separate ways. I think "Sign" had the potential to go top 10, but I don't think it would have gone number one. "Someday" hitting number one was a perfect end.

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I'm also glad it worked out as it did, the last #1 for DRATS and for the decade of the1960s. I had my doubts on first hearing SWBT, it being so different from previous DRATS singles. But it's an elegant R&B song & production, the title and sentiment were perfect for a group swan song, and radio programmers and the public embraced it all the way to #1. [I wonder how well NMWSYA would have done it if Motown had promoted it as DRATS last single. When it came out, I remember an LA DJ remarking on all the rumors of Diana Ross leaving "and yet they keep releasing new singles!"]

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I used to roll my eyes every time I heard "Mountain" on the radio credited to the Supremes, usually Diana Ross and the Supremes. It sounds nothing like a Supremes record to me, but obviously with Diana's voice being the lead voice on the hits, and thus the identifiable sound associated with the group, for some it was just the common denominator thing.

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People/friends still occasionally think ANMHE is a DRATS hit and you're right about the reasons, RanRan. :confused::rolleyes: Still, ANMHE really should have been Ross's debut single. It would have immediately claimed her spot among the top female pop superstars. [She should have won the Grammy for 1970, dammit!]

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Originally Posted by TNSUN

I like "These Things" will keep me loving you. If then released, it would have have been a hit. I don't know why Motown missed this opportunity. Here's a reworking of the song. Focus on a renaming of the song to "Keep Me Loving You". Sing "These things" on the low beat than upgrade the voice scale to "Keep Me Loving You". This song reworked can be a hit. The Kiss song: "I was Made for Loving You" was a monster hit and has similar vibe.

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It certainly had all the ingredients for another hit, far more so than the sophisticated, but far less commercial “Reach Out I’ll Be There”.
Even if not a big a hit as “Mountain”, at least “These Things” would have kept the momentum going.
I always thought Diana’s wonderfully sensual version of “Your All I Need To Get By” might have charted well.

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Originally Posted by Ollie9

...thought Diana’s wonderfully sensual version of “Your All I Need To Get By” might have charted well.

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There's only ONE version of “Your All I Need To Get By” for me, and it ain't Diana's, so NO WAY Ollie9. Wonderfully sensual NOT... just a weak and unnecessary cover version.

Well,love child is kinda a solo as is most of the DRATs era....so ..
I think the problem was BG.
He kept Diana off TV for over a year...
Out of site, out of mind.
She would have made it with our him imo .
Just like Elvis outgrew the Col.
Ross outgrew BG. At least she got away.

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Originally Posted by Starguard4

There's only ONE version of “Your All I Need To Get By” for me, and it ain't Diana's, so NO WAY Ollie9. Wonderfully sensual NOT... just a weak and unnecessary cover version.

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The thing being, the arrangements are so dissimilar it’s like comparing two separate songs.
I love the youthful exuberance of the Marvin and Tammi version, but also love how Diana turns it into something sexy, and dare i repeat sensual.
Weak cover version never. Every track on that album is a gem.

Had Someday been a Diana solo hit, she would be singing it at every concert.

No, it was a case where Motown did the right thing. Someday was the perfect final DRATS song. It wistfully has memories of someone moving on. Had it been her first single, some may have thought is she having second thoughts about going single? I would have to say Reach Out should have been the second single. ANMHE is a terrific song and rightfully went to #1. It didn't make you think about Marvin & Tammi's earlier version at all. Both Ross and the new Supremes came out with 2 very strong first albums.
Speaking of the Supremes, the last Jean song was Bad weather and they certainly hit that for 2 years. A good final song would have been 2 years prior It's so Hard For Me To Say Goodbye which echoed some of Someday's sentiments.