True. There was no way he could tolerate Diana failing. I think he would put her back in the Supremes in no time and keep her there and have her do outside projects. I wonder if Cindy and Mary could tolerate it!
True. There was no way he could tolerate Diana failing. I think he would put her back in the Supremes in no time and keep her there and have her do outside projects. I wonder if Cindy and Mary could tolerate it!
Did Berry say this in his book? It’s been a while since I’ve read it. I’ve stated what Diana said, so i’d Be curious as to what Berry said.
It would make sense for him to do that. He got a big scare on her opening night. Not many tickets sold , so he did the thing with the stack of $20 bills and tearing them in half. You know the rest of the story.Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
Where did diane say it? It must have been out of Berry's earshot.Quote:
Originally Posted by khansperac
I was just giving my opinion what Berry might do if Diane’s career didnt take off.
Yeah and im Melania Trumps Mistress.Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
That was a legit question. But too bad that I am going to have to add Klansperac to my list of "Ignore" now. LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
We are getting off topic people, the topic is the delights of the delightful Cindy Birdsong.
Feel free to make another thread on these interesting subjects, but keep on subject, boys and girls!
There's something about Cindy that is very cuddly, and not just because of her knockout curvy figure. I think even as a very young woman there was a very strong maternal/big sister vibe coming off her. You know how you just need to look at a photo of someone to know they are a good person? That's Cindy. There's just a rare, natural sweetness to her that is almost tangible. Like all of the Supremes got it as they matured from being little sweetheart girls from the Projects, but the vibe I get from Miss Cindy is that she was a reassuring gentle big sister presence to the others, a big sister to big sisters. She just has this natural glamorous but down to earth big sister vibe. I think of her beauty as being a girl next door type, but more accurately, the girl you WISH lived next door. But for her down to earth sweetness, she effortlessly cleans up nicely: she wears ballgowns like a second skin. It's only natural she would be poached for the Supremes as she had that "it girl" factor to her but has a distinct personality that would have allowed the Supremes to be equally marketable by allowing their individual personalities to resonate with different members of the audiences. Everyone has their favourite Supreme.
Personally, if I managed the Supremes, I would have played off the fact that all of our girls each brought something different to the sweet and delicious mixture. Boybands and girlbands have been doing this since time began, so I would have kept our Flo and brought in Miss Cindy and had the group become a quartet as it was before Betty and Barbara left to become stay at home wives and mothers, choosing domesticity over fame, and considering Barbera at least avoided many of the hardships and tragedies and heartaches that were to plague the three who stayed, may have made the wisest decision in terms of their own happinesses.
Now, my dream lineup would have been the original girls, but with Cindy and Jean as well, harmonising and switching leads, and giving the girls spotlight verses on songs when they are not the lead singer. I would have also have them learn instruments and songwriting, Flo wanted to write lyrics, Diana and Mary thought they were good, but Gordy trashed them naturally. But a workshop with the HDH dreamteam and Smokey would have really cultivated their talents. I am degressing, but picture you will if the original Supremes, instead of replacing Flo, had a "coronation" on Ed Sullivan with the addition of a fourth Supreme. I also think Cindy would have had an excellent balancing role on the others, especially Flo. Cindy is like the mixer in your cocktail, she has a lovely sweet flavour to herself but she makes the other strong ingredients come together and taste nice and stop overpowering each other. Then you'd have Diana "the showy one" Mary "the classy one" Flo "the naughty one" and Cindy "the sweet one" and the audience would get to pick their favourite, while having the other girls give your fave a run for her money.
I just think all four of them have such big, larger then life, iconic, loveable personalities and part of their charm was that underneath all the furs and silks and gowns and jewels, they were just young girls from the projects caught in the strange wilderness between childhood and womenhood, innocence and maturity, mischief and impeccable behaviour, glamour and earthiness, prestige and poverty, and liked all the things that adolescent girls and young women like: going bowling and cooking for boys, shopping for dresses and costume jewellery together, listening to records, babysitting and cooing over babies, squabbling over who got checked out by that boy, sighing over hearththrobs like The Beatles and Marvin Gaye together....
I love watching this video of Mary jamming away on the guitar while Flo and Diana play table tennis then mug for the camera. Flo blows bubbles and it is not Diana but Mary who slyly reaches out and bursts it with a slap, to Flo's outrage and Diana's delight. People forget how young and vulnerable these girls were, and the expensive gowns and nightclub settings don't change the fact that's why they chose to sing together. They were family when they started out.
I just wish I had been Berry Gordy, there are so many things I would have wanted to do for them and have them learn and to protect them from the seedier and more corruptive elements of showbiz and teach them how to look after themselves. If only there were more Marvin Gayes in the world and less Berry Stinkin' Gordies.
Okay I got off topic massively.
In my head I like to think of each of our girls having a specialist instrument to be taught to play, so they can really be on the same level as the Beatles or the Rolling Stones.
I would have...
Taught Diana the guitar.
Florence the piano.
Mary a violin. She is the classy one after all, or a harp maybe.
And finally just to be random, let's have sweetheart Cindy on the drums. All the Supremes know how to work a tambourine, and I bet that would translate well to them be drummers. And if Jean joins too, let's have her be the bassist. Move over Josie and the Pussycats, there's new girls in town.
I wish I had a time machine, because I would have fought to the death to give and get all that talent the respect and encouragement and tutelage it needed and deserved. But I am so very, very, very grateful for what we have. I just wish Gordy had seen the potential in each one and so many other of the Motor City heroes and heroines he saw as meal tickets, nothing more.
Back on topic. I love Cindy's hair best when it's coiled on top of her head, so we can see her lovely face. But she also looks splendid with long hair too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
you are Quite correct but I think you left out the duets with The Tempts and Tops. With or without, my point isn’t singles sales that don’t rely that much on group identity, but album sales and Tix sold do - and that’s where the huge drop off happened quickly. When I saw JMC on the bottom of a split bill in Sept 71 at Mill Run with Ray Charles, I knew things were worse than I expected. Sales for their albums had gone from 25 to 68 to 116 to 86 - when the split bill occurred. And I attribute that to the lack of star power. A year earlier, they played it alone. They closed with Exodus and it gave me chills. I gated the hits arrangements, however except they jammed with Nathan Jones. They didn’t do River Deep or EGTRTL - nor their soon to be released single, Touch. They were a good group - very good - but there were lots of those - they needed a star or a total remake in style that they could sell better. I do not buy, at all, any conspiracy theory silliness Mary made up in the 80s to explain the demise.
I loved them at Mill Run - they looked sensational and were in the papers talking about wearing hot pants. They also did a local morning show that I missed.
Cindy Birdsong on the cover of the UK's prestigious Sunday Times Magazine, March 14 1971. From The Motown Scrapbook.
Attachment 14222
Ooooh!!! Please post the rest of the article
Cindy was gorgeous. That is a very nice collector's item. Thanks TombairdFan for sharing it.
I always used to mentally beg for more Cindy Birdsong lead vocals on Supremes, but "The Sha-La Bandit" confirmed to me her strength as a harmonizer. I think she has a great voice, but it's rare when you find someone who can steal the show with a specific harmony. It took me a while to figure out it was Cindy singing the "We could beeee-" during Up The Ladder To The Roof [[when before I simply thought it was Jean's voice layered twice) but finally noticed her lip syncing it in a TV performance. Also, the way she handles the ending harmonies on "Touch" are magnificent. While I love the Lynda Laurence "Model of the Year" version, I feel like Cindy would hit those "Touuuuuch" harmonies way more confidently than Lynda did.
Good one! I'll listen for that!Quote:
Originally Posted by loganjlr
it took me years to realize that Cindy is doing lead on Bridge Over Troubled Water. I thought Mary started it and then Jean did two lines. now though I can hear the subtle differences. Cindy really has a warm, soft sexy voice. the way she can whisper a vocal and caress it. matches perfectly with her bedroom eyes. I do think she was sort of the Marilyn Monroe of the group during these years and when they did the genie segment later, that was a perfect fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by loganjlr
I wonder if some of the really soft, silky songs that Mary Wells did wouldn't have been a nice fit for cindy. Given smokey's work with Mary Well and Wanda Rogers, I'd have thought he could have done something more with Cindy on the Floy Joy set. I do love her ad libs in Sunshine and her spoken part in Wisdom.
Imagine what her hypnotic take on one of the verses in Automatically Sunshine would have been like!!
Cindy contributed a lot to the supremes that people don't realize. When i went.to the july 29 1967 show at forest hills stadium i already knew flo was gone as it.was in the papers and on the radio. But iwent to.the show anyway. It took me months to her in the group fast forward to the ed sullivan appearance on forever came today 8 months later i became sold on cindy. She eased t tension in the group kept t act going as diana ross and the supremes where she could have easily said no. Singing behind a featured headliner as a mere backup at most. When the 70s hit she really came into her own as a supreme and artist. The supremes should have been greatful they had a cindy birdsong in their act especi@lly diana and mary. Did u hear how she belted out let the sunshine in on that farewell lp.
Missing word. It took me months to LIKE her.
One thing I have always wondered about Cindy is this. On the farewell performance for Diana Ross and the Supremes I thought that Mary had one solo and Cindy also had a solo, but it was brought to my attention that Mary is actually singing both of those solos. Is that true? Did anyone see their shows in 1968 or 1969 because IÂ’m wondering if in fact each had a solo, And perhaps on the night of the final performance Cindy wasn’t up to it so Mary ended up singing both. Can anyone clarify?
I always assumed Mary got two solos because it was their final shows. To my knowledge Cindy never had a solo in the 60s Supremes.
There is a live recording of "Floy Joy" from the Merv Griffin show floating around with Mary, Jean and Cindy all singing lead imo is very good.Quote:
Originally Posted by sup_fan
Yeah, I liked how they romped right through that song. Very soulful.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod_rick
That was a pretty major change when the founder of the group is no longer there.Quote:
Originally Posted by franjoy56
She was no dumb Dolly. LOL!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by luke
The competition between the Supremes and the Bluebelles/Labelle was heavy. Probably heavier than the rivalries within Motown girl groups. Labelle's 1973 track "[[Can I Speak to You Before You Go To) Hollywood" was allegedly about Cindy. In their view, Cindy just simply forgot them and went to live a good life as a Supremes member/Motown artist. Nona and Sarah came from Trenton and Patti from West Philly, and Cindy knew how they were so maybe she knew they'd be, in Robin Harris' voice, "pissed off to the highest level of pisstivity", when they found out she had joined the Supremes so she decided to just leave them hanging, she obviously didn't mean to. Cindy had been with them for roughly six years and they all treated each other like family so Patti's, Nona's and Sarah's anger was understood.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigAl
Took Patti YEARS to forgave her. Apparently, Cindy said that when Patti was touring in Los Angeles, Cindy saw her show and Patti saw her and told her to come up and they shared a long hug and the crowd gave them a huge standing ovation. Think this was around the time If Only You Knew became Patti's first major solo hit in 1984 [[so you'd see her with the bob hairdo that was popular in black circles at the time; the one you'd see Cherrelle and a young Whitney Houston wear).
Nona and Sarah were probably hardest to break, and Nona definitely. But I think all's been forgiven since Cindy was with them when Labelle got their star in the Philadelphia Walk of Fame [[think Cindy was also there when Patti got her solo star at the Hollywood Walk of Fame).
But back on topic, Cindy seems to be the SWEETEST of the Supremes [[well her and Susaye)...
I assume Motown was prepping to make sure Diana got her star exit and then when the replacement came, Cindy would get more vocal opportunities, including some leads. Berry was something else...Quote:
Originally Posted by luke