Well that's quite positive - all is not lost as far as "Refelctions" Expanded is concerned - and maybe other Motown too - and Andy you mentioned revisiting "next year" - which just happens to be Motown's 65th Anniversary.
Printable View
Well that's quite positive - all is not lost as far as "Refelctions" Expanded is concerned - and maybe other Motown too - and Andy you mentioned revisiting "next year" - which just happens to be Motown's 65th Anniversary.
I am not clear as to why universal declined Reflections?
I thought the expanded editions sold well ,with some selling out..
I also tend to wonder what the thought process/strategy is, when it comes to their senior executives, green-lighting a release? I Hear A Symphony Expanded Edition was limited to 2,000 copies. I was surprised that release made it out the door, in such a small number. I would imagine it's a sardine, in the revenue pond for them. I was also surprised and happy that in light of that small 2,000 copy CD run, that we ended up getting A Go Go and Sing HDH as well, a few years later, along with Merry Christmas and Funny Girl, via Real Gone. I would imagine that the decision-makers tend to be strategic with the timing of when they are willing to greenlight any release, but I'm sure like any organization, there can be inconsistencies with that decision-making process, as well as the usual politics, which can make it all that much more frustrating for those who are trying to get their projects out the door. Having worked in the business sector myself for quite some time, I've seen this first-hand. In light of that, I also have a lot of gratitude for the work and advocating that Andy, George and their entire team does.
I've read on other forums that for quite some time now, the major labels are generally much more reluctant to greenlight projects that involve licensing their musical assets to third-party reissue labels. I get the sense there are a few things at play, one being dwindling CD sales, two being the resurgence in vinyl, three being the possibility of creating specialty subscription-based artist-specific streaming platforms in the future, and four being the eventual deaths of legendary artists. All of these factors mean that it's more financially advantageous for the big labels to time their releases differently [which sometimes means waiting years], and to limit them to specific formats. This protects the market value of their musical assets, to prevent over-exposure/over-supply and to maximize their sales potential to the fullest. However, will that strategy really work when the fan base continues to age and decline? Maybe no one really knows the answer to that, especially when the music industry has never been able to formulate a consistent long-term strategy in the midst of constantly changing technology, demographics and preferences [think of the sudden introduction of online music piracy/downloading, just as one example, and how much it affected sales]. One thing is for sure, which is that the long-term waiting game is not fun for anyone, especially for us fans.
I always say that if anyone is truly desiring more product, the best thing you can do as a fan is to buy whatever is being put out, even if that means buying something you didn't ask for, like another compilation. Every additional copy that is sold shows that there is still someone who is interested and listening. For all of the fans who like to dwell on The Supremes drama in the forums, in Facebook groups and via YouTube comments, I tend to wonder what percentage of them went out and bought Diana's Thank You album and/or Mary's Anthology? I can only hope that both albums have done well.
No. It is a slippery slope of declining return on investment that turns into a free fall and then the music is largely abandoned. I'm an avid fan of 1930's hot jazz, which is probably a fraction of a fraction of the Motown market. There is NOTHING released except the occasional [[every 5-10 year) compilation. I get excited when I find a clean shellac disc. Those are my "new releases". LOL.
In short and to be brutal about it, new people don't generally get interested in old music, even given the anecdotal "hey a young kid said they love this song". Balancing the equation between supply and demand becomes impossible when demand is too small to be measured.
I know we feel like there are lot of us willing to buy the latest releases, but in reality, there are likely not enough to even justify "charity" releases.
And the big music conglomerates are not charities; they exist to make profit. I tend to think all of our EE releases were done to be charitable to the fans and because we have an awesome team in Andy, George and all making a case for the releases. UMe may have broken even or even made a little on each release but I can't imagine the margins were great or the volume even made it on to a balance sheet.
I'm happy to be corrected on any/all of these assumptions as I'm not privy to any actual data.
while i agree much of the music of the DRATS period isn't my all-time favorite, the dorky completist nerd in me wants it all lol. for me, the top priorities are:
1. the booklet - i'm the nerd that made up the excel timeline, compiling all of the booklet info, charts, etc. so i'd love to learn more about what the girls were doing, where they were performing, etc
2. alt versions - since we have recent digital releases of the studio albums, i'm more interest in the extended versions, alt vocals, etc. Having the Stereo vs Mono is nice but usually there are only the subtlest of differences so not as fascinating IMO as the alts
3. live shows
while i do enjoy having each individual EE on each lp, at this point i'd be happy with a couple L&F. maybe 1 more from the Diana era and 1 or 2 [[wouldn't 2 be amazing!!) from the 70s.
I agree with you, thanxal, on all of the points you've made above. I'm a casual Judy Garland fan and I've noticed that the releases have pretty well dried up for years now, in a similar manner to the market you described for 1930's hot jazz. If anything comes out now, it's a budget release of material that has entered the public domain, which sometimes leaves a lot to be desired in terms of sound quality, etc. The nice thing is that there have been a few rare live broadcasts and things of that nature, that have been released by third-party labels. In those cases, it seems those releases have been financially-backed by passionate fans, and they have taken the time to restore the audio to the best form possible [ie. charity releases]. Other than that, there was a small handful of Judy Garland vinyl reissues, all of which I suspect were only put out because of the Renée Zellweger movie, otherwise there would be nothing at all. It's sadly inevitable that we'd be heading down this same road with The Supremes and many of our favourite acts from that era.
Having mentioned Judy Garland, we of course still get tons of releases on Ella Fitzgerald. I suspect that Marvin Gaye will continue to get the same treatment, far into the future. It's unfortunate, as it seems that only certain artists tend to be celebrated for their genius, by the industry and general public.
Just as I was writing this post, I discovered that 10 Judy Garland albums were reissued on CD in Japan last year, to celebrate her 100th birthday. God Bless the Japanese. They are true appreciators of yesterday's music.
Did you see this????? It is OUTSTANDING!
It's funny you mentioned it because I just found out about it this week! This specialty label isn't all that far from my home, and it's amazing to see them putting out these recordings. I had bought the Swan Songs and First Flights 3 CD set some years ago, but have been meaning to get this latest title, as well as their latest remaster of her final concert in Denmark and the Carnegie Hall album. Did you buy this lost Vegas show release, thanxal? I've read that it's a long lost recording that fans have been searching for, for years, and it was recently unearthed. I think I will need to place an order! :)
I did and the version of "Lucky Day" alone is worth it. This concert is in her "old" style, e.g the Palace style, not the later more polished Carnegie style. There is a lot of dialog and lots of back ground singers [[probably the Andantes, LOL). "Rainbow" is unique, but the sound quality is off.
<<Sorry for the tangent everyone>>
Hey Carlo, SDE posts about the Judy releases all the time!
https://theseconddisc.com/2023/04/10...miere-release/
https://theseconddisc.com/2022/08/23...al-cd-formats/
https://theseconddisc.com/2022/07/15...gital-formats/
Thanks Jack! Yes, those were live recordings I was referencing in my earlier post above. :) It's nice that this label HDTT Tracks has picked up the ball and has been able to put out some great releases on her. They are a Canadian label [the one that I referenced as being not far from where I live, in my previous post]. :) I believe this label is run by a passionate audiophile who finances everything himself. I like that he prioritizes the sound quality and dynamic range to the highest level possible, utilizing the best methods to complete his analogue transfers from the tapes. It also gives that extra incentive for music fans to re-buy the same music again, if they know it's a true improvement over earlier releases that were edited and/or badly compressed in the remastering process. That's when you have the potential to draw in extra sales from the audiophiles.
It's encouraging to know that there are still little guys out there who are willing and able to pick up the ball from the big labels, who can no longer be bothered, when it comes to certain artists and their catalogue. You'd definitely have to be very passionate and devoted, as I can't imagine it's an easy situation to navigate and turn a profit from.
But at some point shouldn’t it be just as much about preservation and celebration as it is about profit? Especially for a massive mass media company that is surely not hurting for money?! I know, I know…I’m a dreamer…
Why not just license the album to Real Gone Music like UM did with the groups EE Christmas album and the Funny Girl expanded album?
Andy, George
Anyone interestedin a Q@A to discuss Motown ,supremes releases etc
I second the request. Perhaps we could establish a thread where we post questions that the guys could visit whenever their schedules allow and answer the questions, as permitted. I have a question about 60s recordings that I'm dying to ask about. [[And no, it has nothing to do with the Andantes.:rolleyes:)
I'd love this as well. I also have a non-Andantes question.
i wonder in we could get the interviews Andy, George and team did with Midnight Johnny [[i think i got the dj correct). this was the guy that would do these interviews shortly after the EE were released. I believe unfortunately he has passed away. but the interviews were great, entertaining and often had tidbits of info that wasn't included in the EE booklet.
A lot Midnight Johnny's interviews that he did on his show Nightlight, can still be heard via WOMR's archives...
https://womr.org/podcast_category/night-flight/
Andy, George
anyone WE could email to help get things up and running
Just rediscovered a song Slow Down ,apparently an out take from Go Go.
I think it would have fit well here on Refections in place of lesser songs,....Up Up and Away.
I think a song I vaguely remember also little Breeze would be a good fit.
Any thoughts.
I like side 1 ,but side 2 seems weak to me.
Include the Happening in place of What The world Needs
Imo
Any thoughts
The released tracks may have been completed on the same day, but the vocals were not. The first version of "The Happening" was done in February. The second, single version was recorded in March, both track and vocals. "Reflections" I think didn't get vocals until May.
When you consider how prolific the Funks- in particular- were in the studio, with producers scheduling sessions often, it shouldn't come as a surprise, but it is interesting to run across the various recording dates of songs that were cut on the same day that have such diverse sounds.
i've made several playlists attempting to be "producer" for the Reflections album. Breeze is a great song that should have been included. I'm sort of ok with Up Up Away, especially given that tunes like In and Out and Going All the Way were "sunshine pop" as was the 5th Dimension tune.
a few other tunes that were recorded in time that might have worked were:
Can't shake it loose
Stay in my lonely arms
Let the music play
Slow Down
Put yourself in my place [[since i did a revised A Go Go album, this song could have gone on Sing HDH or Reflections)
Wasn't "Heaven Must Have Sent You" from this time frame also?
yes i think they recorded that in fall of 67.
but i've never included it on any of my Reflections playlists, even though it was from that time. i love the song and they did a great job on it but it doesn't "fit" IMO. I have the Some Things You Never Get Used To album as a playlist too and i put it on there. along with a lot of the outtakes from A Go Go