Roger
The Common Market was the term I first remember.
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Roger
The Common Market was the term I first remember.
Yep ... that was its common name .. the official name I'm sure was "The EEC - European Economic Community" which comprised of six nations ... [[France, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and italy) .. there was also EFTA [[The "European Free Trade Area") which comprised of seven countries The UK, Ireland, Switzerland, Denmark, Norway, Iceland and one other [[probably Liechtenstein). I'm sure it is all mentioned somewhere on the net. :)
Why immigration was way oversold as the reason for the brexit from the EU...Just one of many reasons...If you really want to know WHY the UK left the EU...the 14 minute video at the end of this article will answer all your questions...
https://panampost.com/luis-henrique-...it-inevitable/
Anytime a country like Greece where people complain if they have to work more than 30 hours per week and expect 2 month holidays...then go hat in hand to countries like Germany and the UK [[where work ethics demand hard work and sacrifice for economic success) for bailouts because their economy is uncompetitive with the rest of the world is more than a small cultural difference...it's an inevitable economic catastrophe waiting to happen...
He wasn't telling you what to do, he was warning you, and he is right...for now.
I understand about sovereignty. We Americans fought you over it centuries ago, and it was probably pretty rough.
A lot of the message we are getting here about the motivation for Brexit is about your issues with immigration, largely from Mediterranean, East Asian, and Middle Eastern countries, amid worries of terrorist attacks. From what I have been reading, this has been largely blamed for the depressed economic issues. Is the rise of racial attacks on the rise a result of embolden racists who latched onto the Leaves?
Somebody posted this on FaceBook. England may as well be the US or Germany when things like this occur
Tom Bradbury
June 20 at 4:10am ·
The most perfect thing I have ever seen just happened on the replacement train bus service between Newport and Cwmbran:
White man sat in front of a mother and her son. Mother was wearing a niqab. After about 5 minutes of the mother talking to her son in another language the man, for whatever reason, feels the need to tell the woman "When you're in the UK you should really be speaking English."
At which point, an old woman in front of him turns around and says, "She's in Wales. And she's speaking Welsh."
There are some very skewed misunderstandings of the issues affecting the UK at this time. I am not interested in knowing where they are coming from but I can see who is believing them.
Attachment 11452
Exactly! Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales and The isle of Man
will all ask for referenda, and ALL vote for independence, and all summarily join The EU. UK never wanted to join, proving it, by never joining The Euro. They let Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium and France pay to incorporate the poorer countries into the money system. Sweden and Denmark did the same. How can you have an effective economic union with multiple money systems?
I work for Disney in The Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden and Germany. I live and work in The Netherlands, Germany and Denmark. I get paid in Euros in The Netherlands and Germany, and arranged it so that The Danes and Swedes also pay me in Euros, because that is more convenient. But, then I must change money when living in Denmark and working there and in Sweden. I always lose money on those exchanges. We should have one single money system. I also travel in Norway and UK, and resent having to change money in those places.
The whole point of The EU was to make a large enough economic block to compete with USA, and avoid all the tariffs and high prices, and to allow people to move more freely, and have better work opportunities. Now, I'm afraid that The Scandinavian countries may follow England's lead, fearing that their countries will be swamped with refugees sneaking in from nearby EU countries.
It's much more common for mothers [[of all skin colours) to do the complaining. I live near to a school for infants and those mothers get real stroppy when they see their own kids getting confused by the conversations of their friends in a language that is not English.
You can't have studied the results of the referendum in much detail Robb, and I would suggest that you do so by looking at the BBC website results page ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/e...rendum/results
You may be proved correct with Scotland, but in Northern Ireland the voting seemed to reflect the old Catholic/Nationalist versus Protestant/Unionist divide, with heavily Protestant areas voting "Leave" and heavily Catholic areas voting "Remain" ... I don't have exact figures but it looks to me like Catholics/Nationalists voted around 80/20 for "Remain" and Protestants/Unionists voted around 60/40 for "Leave".
Wales voted to Leave by about the same figure as The U.K. as a whole. The Isle of Man is not part of The UK and neither is it in The EU, exactly the same is the case for The Channel Islands [[Jersey and Guernsey), which you omitted to mention.
Well, when we joined in 1973 it was sold to the British public as joining a "Trading Area" and the idea that it would turn into some kind of uniform federal super-state was kept quiet, though at the time that idea did have some appeal to me.
Your enthusiasm for a single currency throughout The EU is something that I've not heard in The UK since 2009 [[though I've not had a serious conversation with any Liberal-Democrats about the issue recently). It may all sound very noble and good-intentioned but the simple truth is that in order for it to work the currency has to be used in places with broadly similar economies and cultures, within The Eurozone this is simply not the case which has led to immense strains on The Euro. Basically Greece, Spain and Portugal are in dire-straits, Italy, France, Ireland and Cyprus are struggling and even Finland is having problems.
Also, currently The UK pays much more into The EU than it gets back, so I don't understand why you think that we have not been paying to "incorporate the poorer countries into the money system". Needless to say if/when we leave the other countries that pay more into The EU than they receive back [[notably Germany and The Netherlands) will have to pick up the bill unless they too leave.
This reminds me of the sort of thing we were told was a good reason to join The Euro in The UK back in the late 1990s. We were told of a hypothetical British tourist driving through Europe on his way to holiday in Italy or Greece who changed his money each time he crossed a border, changing his Pounds for French Franks as he entered France, then into Belgian Franks as he entered Belgium, then into Dutch Guilders, German Marks etc. etc. Needless to say by the time he arrived at his destination he had little left, as he would lose 5% each time on currency exchange charges. Needless to say this is an argument that I've not heard in a while.
Which is part of the issue, strange though it may seem a large number of people in The UK actually like The Americans and have an inherent distrust of some of our neighbours on The Continent. As a result they are very wary of anything designed to "take on The Americans". I did used to be very "Pro-Europe" in the 1970s and 1980s, but the way they have imposed The Euro on countries which were clearly unsuited to it has managed to kill off any enthusiasm I used to have.
Roger
And who is gong to fund the more than generous social entitlement programs that Scotland has become so accustomed to which are currently paid for, lock, stock, and barrel by the Brits with Scottish oil sitting at a meager $50 per barrel. Does Merkel have a secret stash set aside with billions to cover those costs???...I think when faced with that reality, Scotland will think better of going it alone to join an organization which will likely get hit with a domino effect when movements like Czechout, Frexit, and the other more successful economies get tired of propping up the failed economies like Greece, Spain, etc...The EU is a socialist experiment with a few non elected officials setting policy affecting 60% of the lives of the citizens of it's member countries...Yes...the failed economies may like it for the opportunity to get bailed out by the wealthier countries...but the citizens of the more successful governments will see the negative aspects of what the EU has wrought. If they want to see the result of Socialist economies where great natural resources are present...they need to take a look at Venezuela, where the Hugo Chavez/Sean Penn style economy have Venezuelans out in the streets protesting the hunger they are experiencing due to a lack of food...and when they protest...the Venezuelan authorities handle the problem of protesters by just shooting them...All the while...sitting on one of the largest oil reserves in the world, and failing to account for the decline in oil prices through intelligent economic planning. Hugo Chavez SISTER remains the wealthiest person in Venezuela...Good luck EU...Merkel got her cheap labor...now the price tag is becoming a reality in areas of failed economic growth, uncontrolled immigration with unfettered multi-culturalism, and political upheavel...
The "distrust" between the US and Mexico [[mostly) and/or Canada are canards fabricated mostly by one megalomaniac in his quest for the presidency. To wit, there are a lot of issues in the UK with the EU, one of the most prevalent being with immigrants employed in English jobs and lowering wages. Undocumented immigrants in the US actually keep the economy afloat by taking jobs that no American wants for pay that none would accept.Quote:
Which is part of the issue, strange though it may seem a large number of people in The UK actually like The Americans and have an inherent distrust of some of our neighbours on The Continent. As a result they are very wary of anything designed to "take on The Americans". I did used to be very "Pro-Europe" in the 1970s and 1980s, but the way they have imposed The Euro on countries which were clearly unsuited to it has managed to kill off any enthusiasm I used to have.
Roger
If Trump wins, I hope he starts with all of the immigrants who work on the farms and in custodial and landscaping roles first. At a time when there is a deep divide within the Democratic party about raising the minimum wage to $15/hour [[with zero reason to believe the Republicans will be inclined to do so), can you imagine all of a sudden filling those extremely difficult $4/hour jobs with US citizens who are "suffering" through a period with 5.8% unemployment?
It won't happen. There are simply too many available jobs that pay more for less work and frequently in air conditioned environments. The anti-immigrant angst and generally xenophobic sentiment that is portrayed in the media is pure BS and nobody on television or in press is honest enough to discuss it for what it is: an economic reality, not a legal or social problem. Prices for everything will skyrocket without those workers and Donald J. Trump and every one of his shills knows it.
The rate of crimes committed by undocumented immigrants is lower than that committed by Americans in general. The fervor for building a wall and kicking them all out was kicked off solely by the fearmongering son of perdition whose true agenda is to strengthen the grips of the American apartheid that we're already experiencing and ensure that White people will remain in power after they are no longer the majority in the next 30 years.
Actually while I agree with Roberta that Trump will never be elected President...we have two real "winners" [[please detect my sarcasm) running for President this time around...Actually...a couple of crapburgers...but the Dems have the ground game and a naturally built in electoral advantage while Trump will say to many stupid things to get elected...That aside, and to Jerry's assertions...Amazing that while hundreds of thousands of people left the workforce last month, to be replaced by only about 35,000 while the so called "unemployment rate actually DECLINED should tell us that the real unemployment rate in the United States in well into the double digits and actually approaching 20%...If we reported unemployment like Canada or many other countries, that's where our unemployment rate would be. I just had major surgery and haven't worked in some time...yet according to our labor statistics...I'm EMPLOYED...So many people have given up looking for work due to the economy, yet they are also counted as EMPLOYED...and to Jerrys point...Americans real income has stagnated and actually declined in recent years...All cheap labor has done has pushed down wages in those jobs to where Americans don't want them due to people willing to perform them for bargain basement wages. If a guy is willing to clean septic tanks for 8 bucks an hour...yes...few Americans are going to accept those jobs...but if there are not people willing to do those jobs for 8 bucks an hour...then the wages for those jobs will go to 15-20 bucks an hour and plenty of Americans will find cleaning septic tanks a much more desirable employment opportunity...Simple economics...People aren't doing jobs Americans don't want...American workers are not accepting jobs that others will accept for crap wages for doing crap work...Lose every low pay and benefit worker and I guarantee you...septic tanks will be cleaned because Americans know their shit...
SutBass, I'll go further than that: Lose those jobs and we'll go from that double digit real unemployment rate to a state of overemployment. If jobs become a buyers' market from the standpoint of the employees, then we'll have a problem with people trading jobs as well as with inflation.
The people at the top of the economic ladder know this. They've been using undocumented workers for over a century, Trump included to keep from paying market-based wages. That's the true reason why they oppose almost all paths to citizenship, even for people who have lived and worked here for decades. They breathe lies to keep the folks at the bottom from realizing that globalization is not the cause for the "good jobs going to Mexico and China", but rather their greed. They also breathe lies to make people think that they can buy a 79 cent head of iceburg lettuce with an American picking it instead of someone else.
The same economic reality that many had the day after the Brexit vote is what we would experience the day after we built a wall and kicked them all out: Our economy and way of life rests on these people. We all know it, but we won't talk about it in public discourse of the "problem". If it's about principle, then I say do; kick them all out, but they won't. The only principles involved are the economy weighed against the increasing diversity of the population.
And my only disagreement with your view is that I believe a hungry man will grab a lifeline, even if it's for $12.50/hour but I think many or most of those who have fallen out of the labor market aren't willing to work for less than they think they deserve. Even if it's enough to fulfill their needs. I can't blame them or judge them. But if I had to, I'd work as hard for McDonald's as I did for the job that I quit two years ago that paid me four times as much.
When the US lost the production and manufacturing jobs, we shifted heavily to a service-based economy and people are only going to pay for the service if it's cheaper and more convenient than if they can do it themselves. It's my opinion that the cost of service combined with a glut of people willing to perform it is what has kept wages down.
Let me give you an example which highlights your last point Jerry...not sure if it agrees or disagrees with your position...However, a person very close to me who immigrated to the United States legally after years of applying and spending tens of thousands of dollars who finally got permission to come to work with her husband...Husband a Phd was able to get a college teaching job, and she, with a masters level degree also a private teacher...Two people coming to contribute to our society and culture having to sign a statement as a condition of work permits that they would never apply for any federal economic assistance and would support themselves...Those same people had to go through all of this while watching "undocumented" or illegal people just walking across the border...some seeking work, others involved in smuggling or other illegal activities...while Los Angeles Country alone spends nearly 2 BILLION dollars per year on services and other costs directly related to the so called undocumented immigrants...Being a taxpayer in Los Angeles county...I can think of many many more pressing needs to spend that 2 Billion dollars on then people who crossed the border illegally, utilized our services, and we paid for their benefits, incarcerations, legal and judicial fees, etc...My question is...how would you feel if you waited years, spent tens of thousands of dollars to come here legally, and then just watched as people walked across the border at will and even being given taxpayer resources for their law breaking efforts???...I have many immigrant friends...most here legally, some perhaps illegally...I have financially helped a couple of them directly to be able to remain here. That said...we have a serious problem going back decades...I don't believe that calling for defined borders is racism...although some people would call anyone who wants our borders protected "racist"...I've come to the conclusion that when people just use the "racism" argument...it's like a quarterback throwing the ball out of bounds in the closing seconds of a close game...It stops the clock for any rational and intelligent discussion on the topic, usually because the accuser has run out of logical arguments...As Edmund Burke I believe stated..."Personal attack is the last refuge of the scoundrel who has nothing of substance to say"...I actually had a guy from Berlin, Germany call me a racist because I was trying to explain some of the reasons the British voted for the Brexit...I responded to this A-Hole that I was out demonstrating for civil rights in the 60's while this jerk was still in lederhosen...and he had some nerve sitting there at the epicenter of Kristallnacht talking about MY alleged racism LOL...There's even more to this story which exposes some of the problems of undocumented people coming here, but I won't go into that now...This first part of the story should end all the discussion ...
Hungry men in the UK don't work, they make much more money from begging on the streets. A guy in my apartment block would dress like a down and out and take his dirty smelly blanket to the local train station [[Old Street) at 7:00 every morning and return at about 10:00. More recently, I've seen fights when someone pinches a good patch
In London, we also have big problems with women from the former Eastern Bloc counties who walk the length of the train carriages carrying a baby that is "sleeping" [[it's actually drugged). In particular, they patrol the Heathrow airport area pouncing on tourists who will be making their way into Central London.
France has lots of begging too. However, in the south of France, the beggars have dogs because it limits the powers of the police.
The number of males from the middle east immigrating to Sweden [[especially to marry ugly Swedish women for the benefits) is becoming a major problem...Sweden guarantees them a monthly stipend, so they don't have to work to survive...That's why I say that IKEA in Sweden is literally running out of mattresses...
StuBass1
I am on the same wavelength.
Those in the "Leave" camp are now being treated disgracefully by the "Remain" camp and it's a great shame. Worse, that word "racist" is constantly being thrown into any discussion, for the reasons you stated, to stop any rational discussion. It's even been used on this thread.
As much as I hated Thatcher, this is one time when even I would have wanted her to take control. Cameron has let us down and I hope he is shamed in history books as the one that bottled out of leading his country when he was most needed.
Parliament does NOTHING but debate...they debate EVERYTHING...even Donald Trump [[LOL)...however, it means nothing, and Great Britain is NEVER going to refute the 52% of their voters who voted in favor of Brexit...It would undermine Britain's entire system of rule by electoral majority. That debate will be nothing more than a bunch of hoots, ahems, hear hear's, and OOOoooo's attempting to drown out speakers like every other controversial debate in the chambers of Parliament...
StuBass, I don't disagree with your viewpoint at all. But I'll make note of the following wherein I think we see things differently:
There is a reason why the couple you referenced aren't working in the fields. That reason is also why they went the right way about coming to the States. The problem isn't with the workers, by the way. It's with the employers willing to exploit them and the system that is willing to look the other way. They wouldn't go through that effort to pick oranges one month, apples the next, and cabbage in a state 500 miles away after that.Quote:
My question is...how would you feel if you waited years, spent tens of thousands of dollars to come here legally, and then just watched as people walked across the border at will and even being given taxpayer resources for their law breaking efforts???...
I've read that ICE schedules its raids on factories in such a way that they never impact the operation of those facilities. They give the managers advance notice and won't hit the same place again for years. The company might receive a token fine. The government and private industry are complicit in the crime, but it's the worker on whom we focus our enforcement efforts. It's like the drug war. Arresting the druggies isn't slowing down use, so maybe it should be reevaluated.
Closing the borders is not, in and of itself, racism. Racism is what you call it when instead of focusing your reasons on the truth, you describe an entire class of people as murderers and rapists as your reason for wanting to do so. The problem is not how many Mexican criminals we have to contend with; we have a ridiculous amount of Americans doing much more and worse. It's not the jobs that they take; Americans don't want the jobs that they have. The "problem" is that politicians need to stoke the flames to get voters excited and whether they are racist or not, race plays a HUGE role in politics.Quote:
That said...we have a serious problem going back decades...I don't believe that calling for defined borders is racism...although some people would call anyone who wants our borders protected "racist"...I've come to the conclusion that when people just use the "racism" argument...it's like a quarterback throwing the ball out of bounds in the closing seconds of a close game...It stops the clock for any rational and intelligent discussion on the topic, usually because the accuser has run out of logical arguments...
By the way, it'll cost a lot of money to maintain the wall [[forget trying to get Mexico to pay for it). You might want to evaluate how much of your tax dollars are being spent on services for illegal immigrants compared to how much will be spent to keep them out. By the way, the vast majority of them actually work for a living, so whether they are paying taxes or not, their employers are. Consequently, they are actually footing the bill for a lot of those services in Los Angeles and elsewhere.
As the link I posted above clearly points out...The UK was out and out lied to when they initially agreed to join the EU...The EU turned into a bunch of unelected bureaucrats making the decisions which affect about 60% of the day to day realities of British life as well as many of the legal and judicial realities in the UK...In other words...Brits gave away their sovereignty under false pretenses to an organization consisting of career politicians...many of whom are only in their positions because they lost elections in their home countries...Their military is a complete joke, so any mutual defense pacts are ridiculous as was clearly illustrated in the Balkans crisis when NATO had to move in...and the UK is certainly entitled to continue their free trade policies...EU or not...That said...the UK can now decide how it will assist countries like Greece who through their own irresponsibility went belly up, and what to do in their own country about immigrants and who will enter their country and under what circumstances...In other words...The UK reclaimed control of their every day lives and returned to a system that served them well for close to 1,000 years...
Please click the link below. You'll find an American tourist in Manchester being harassed on a tram. "You're a dirty little immigrant. Get off back to Africa." Consider the fact that the person was neither an immigrant nor from Africa and explain to me why the people doing the yelling are not racists. Anybody who makes an assumption [[positive or negative) based on race and acts on that assumption is a racist. It may not describe you, but do not pretend that race is not a significant reason for the sentiment.
http://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2016/...abuse-american
Just as it was in the earlier example of someone being told to speak English in the UK when they were speaking Welsh in Wales. Had the person not had Islamic clothing and probably a darker complexion, that conversation would not have occurred. People who deny racism exists are the ones who perpetuate it, not those who see it and call it out, even when you don't think it is warranted.
Jerry...I absolutely agree that employers exploiting illegal immigrants and the system should be subject to not only fines...but jail terms in some cases. I can say that as someone who employed many people in Los Angeles, that the paperwork and documentation necessary to legally employ ANYONE is quite cumbersome to prove legality to work.. Obviously, there are forged documents and some employers who ignore the law, and they should be penalized...and heavily...Funny to me also that from people I'm aware of who claim to be the anti-racist and pro-immigrant leftist types that many of them are the ones who will utilize illegal immigrant labor in their fancy homes in a heartbeat...Our immigration system is broken and needs to be fixed, but we can't just throw our hands up in the air and ignore the vital need for extensive and secure border enforcement...
Yes ... so I found out a couple of days back. Hilarious isn't it!! :)
Mind you, there are still forces out there that want to declare the result of the referendum invalid for various reasons ... not enough people voted [[even though a turnout of 72% is very high by the standards of UK elections), people didn't know what they were voting for, the "Leave" team lied [[apparently we are supposed to believe that all the claims of the "Remain" side were 100% true), a lot of people only voted "Leave" as a joke, people who voted "Leave" weren't properly educated, a similar vote today might give a different result .... etc. etc. etc.
As I've previously mentioned, The EU has had a long and shameful history of ignoring national referendums when it suited them, so until Article 50 [[the formal divorce notice) is actually invoked I'm still prepared for some legal hiccup.
Roger
I would never condone any overt racist act anywhere, anecdotal or not...But with tens and hundreds of millions of people in any given country...I'm not going to look at the actions of a few moronic knuckleheads and assume that they represent an entire political movement [[although I'm all for dealing harshly with those individuals), anymore than I look at the idiots from PETA or Code-Pink , or other fanatical far left idiots and assume that they represent all left of center thinking here in America...
Lets see...Dow Jones up 250 points today and the S&P set a 4 month record increase...So goes that economic calamity caused by Brexit we've been warned about :p
Jerry
I'm not denying that there are racists in the UK but I do not consider race to be a significant issue of Brexit. I also do not consider religion to be a significant issue of Brexit but there are some media folk who would want me to believe it is. That is just my personal opinion.
On my bus ride back from Islington today [[the home territory of Boris Johnson), a mother was shouting at the younger of her 2 little boys in Turkish in a way that made me suspect she must be scolding him. I have no idea why - they were on the bus when I got on. One woman and her friend clearly did not approve as they were making glib comments. Eventually, the mother could hear that they were calling her out. The scolding stopped when both mother and son turned to focus their attention on the two women. The woman who started making the comments was dark skinned but her friend was a much lighter complexion. The Turkish mother had all of her hair fully exposed and was not wearing any religious clothing.
John,
Boris Johnsof has disassociated himself with one of the Leave campaign posters because he considers it racist.
I agree that focusing on immigration is not in itself racist; but it has the unfortunate effect of encouraging extremists to jump on the bandwagon. There has already been an increase in racist graffiti since the result.
The biggest factor promoting increasing racism is unfettered immigration into countries where people believe that their way of life, traditions, and institutions are under assault. One in five Germans are now of migrant origin and in 2014 rose an astonishing 3%. Add in the problem of so many of todays immigrants refusing to integrate and assimilate into the societies they are flocking to. That's where you get the so called "no-go" zones where even police and other authorities are afraid to enter as these societies within a society create their own institutions and laws...whether based on Sharia or just what we here would refer to as the wild wild west...Certainly immigration was a key factor in the recent Brexit vote, but absolutely not the only factor. The belief by many Brits that they are losing control of their nation with the most important decisions affecting their lives being made by career politicians from other countries in a foreign capital is still the primary reason for the Brexit vote...Back to immigration and racism or ethnocentrism...I have been warning for several years now that this free flow of immigrants into Europe was going to explode at some point. Controlled immigration is not the problem, has never been the problem either here in the U.S. or in Europe...however, when several European countries, in their quest for cheap labor actually encouraged the multi-culturalism that has impacted so many parts of Europe and when the EU stood idly by as waves of immigrants came by land and sea in the tens of thousands at a time and facilitated them while giving so called "host countries" little to no say as to how many immigrants, refugees, and suspected infiltrators they would help enable to enter the various EU member countries regardless of how the citizens of those countries felt about it...the racism and division we see today was bound to happen. NO great nation, society, culture, or even Empire going back centuries has ever survived multiple cultures, languages, traditions, or political boundaries for long without integration and assimilation by those new immigrants entering it...The closest I can think to that is Canada, where the French and English speaking factions have found a fairly stable accommodation, however, their cultures are quite similar and their laws and values are largely the same...Not like the recent immigrants to Germany, France, the UK, Sweden, etc...My biggest fear quite frankly is Germany where Merkel is the biggest proponent of the multi-cultural approach...much like Von Hindenburg as their leader in the 20's and into the 30's was quite friendly to the Jewish population there and allowed them to thrive and neither Jews nor the outside world imagined in their wildest dreams what the German people and government were capable of if convinced that their culture and way of life was under assault. Von Hindenburg then...much like possibly Merkel in a few years, could possibly give way to far right facist types who will point to the ever increasing number of assaults on women by middle eastern immigrants, a dramatic increase in crime rates in major cities, and one or two major terrorist attacks along with a serious economic crisis could likely in my opinion push Germany over the edge...After all...we've seen it there before and it's apparently in their national DNA...Until stability returns first of all to the middle east and northern Africa, decreasing the need for massive immigration, and the EU decides to crack down on the unfettered immigration we've seen in recent years and countries learn to provide their own workers by increasing wages within their countries...I do fear what will eventually happen...When a significant and growng percentage of Americans can nominate a candidate like Donald Trump for the highest office in our land based significantly on fears of more illegal immigration, multi-culturalism, and a decline in traditions and values...then it can happen anywhere. It's just a shame that the only alternative to Trump this time around is Hillary Clinton for reasons I'll not get into at this time...
Stocks surging again today...All the Brexit hysteria fears turning into rubbish...Dow up close to 300 and NASDAC up almost 100...and S&P up about 35 points... :)Predictions from the anti-Brexit leaders were nothing but scare tactics...Markets will rise and fall...Brexit notwithstanding...That has already run it's course as an issue in our markets...
I have been let down by Boris since the result and I'm now looking at Andrea Leadsom. I dont believe that a former REMAIN campaigner has total commitment to take us forward.
I agree that focusing on immigration does have an unfortunate effect but it needs to be tackled and not glossed over. Every debate that I saw had that topic on the agenda.
If you look again, the Dow plunged again. You're a little too quick with this. Step away from Fox news...LOL!
The markets are still very volatile because of this, and you're not going to see a lot of stability. The attack in Turkey probably didn't help, but don't get too smug.
I heard someone put forward this hypothetical question in a debate.
How would America react to being told that it is now going to be run from Mexico, in a lavishly built office to be paid for by the American people. The rules will be made by unelected officials and there will be free movement of people between America and Mexico. The dollar will be replaced by the peso.
You should look again Soulster my friend...While I agree that smugness is never a characteristic any investor should employ...DJ is up well over 100 points today, as are all the other exchanges, as we speak...It's on a three day recovery...Markets are always volatile...if they weren't...I'd take all my money and throw it into the exchange as would everyone else and we'd all get very wealthy :rolleyes:...Doesn't work like that, but over time, history has shown us that the market will always be on an upward trajectory and market investments should be based on a ten year growth pattern...not based on day to day fluxuations, except the losses on Friday made investing on Monday very favorable...That said, the scare tactics some here in our country, including some leaders in our government, tried to use to convince us to convince our British cousins to vote with the remain faction failed,and quite frankly...some of those arguments put forth were admittedly quite foolish...like we will have another country to have to negotiate with???...So freaking what???... And now those same politicians are backing down from their claims...I don't consider it any of my business to tell the British what to do with their government, except to say that centralized governments, expecially a model where politicians from other countries become the ruling party for the politics and policies of another country can never be a good thing any more than we would accept 60% of our governments policies being made in Canada and Honduras being at the epicenter of our judicial system which is exactly what the UK was dealing with... Illegal immigration is a problem in our country...Due to the policies of Merkel and the EU...LEGAL immigration became the huge problem in the UK...The electorate there just said...enough is enough...I doubt they'll be the last...The EU has turned into Merkels great experiment...