http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6376210.html
You aim a gun at police, you get shot. This shouldn't be news.
They don't need an excuse. This would only be news if the kid actually had a gun. The cops killed a man in Beavercreek, Ohio who was talking on a cell phone while holding a BB gun that was pointed toward the ground. Didn't even give him a chance to put it down. They killed a kid in Cleveland 2 seconds after arriving and seeing him with a [[wait for it...) BB gun without advising him to disarm. Another was shot after reaching into his car for identification after the cop pulled him over for not wearing a seat belt. Then another was tasered three times because he didn't want to produce ID. This all happened in the last few months.
You're 100% correct to state that it shouldn't be news. But this story IS news because there is increased attention being paid toward the police whenever deadly force is used. And although you may wish to believe the word of the officers, there has been enough legitimate incidents to question them every time a gun is drawn. Nothing should ever be taken for granted any more.
You need to learn how to gather facts before making your analysis. There's security footage that has been released. I'm not saying there shouldn't be increased attention toward police not doing their jobs, or abusing their power, but this incident has absolutely nothing to do with that, and that's why it shouldn't be news.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Oz
You need to gather facts before responding. There was security footage in each of the incidents I referenced and it didn't make much difference did it? If you read my post, I agreed with you that it shouldn't be news but I explained to you why it is.
Well there was a full length crystal clear video of the NYPD choking Eric Garner to death and guess what? The Grand Jury chose not to indict Daniel Panteleo, but decides to indict, Ramsey Orta the young man that videotaped the incident!
http://live.huffingtonpost.com/#r/hi...39154441568823
I agree. This all looks like a good shoot. But, the people are rioting anyway. They don't see the circumstances, they are generally angry. If the police hadn't engaged in such mistreatment of young Black people, there would be no controversy. If the police didn't have a "warfare" mentality, with anyone who isn't a middle/upper class WASP, there would be no controversy. We also need more minority cops.Quote:
Originally Posted by thomas96
Black people want police protection, but the police have to remember that they are there to protect ALL people. If a cop can't identify the good from the bad, they shouldn't be cops.
I agree. The question I ask when I hear that police are exonerated is not whether the action was appropriate, but whether it was necessary. Deadly force should be used to protect someone's life, but as the first option to de-escalate a situation. I guess they're busy.
Well there was a full length crystal clear video of the NYPD choking Eric Garner to death and guess what? The Grand Jury chose not to indict Daniel Panteleo, but decides to indict, Ramsey Orta the young man that videotaped the incident!
http://live.huffingtonpost.com/#r/hi...39154441568823
I do not believe or take any the Police say at face value from what others I know have experience with police fabricating stories ,planting guns, drugs and other illegal items on innocent people or people they have tried to arrest but did not have enough evidence to make the arrest.
I am also curious to know how many young white Americans have the police shot and killed?
Neither do I, but there are surveillance videos, and another set to come out any time now.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
Shhhh! You know it's racist to talk about that sort of thing!;)Quote:
I am also curious to know how many young white Americans have the police shot and killed?
I don't think it is racist to ask the question at all. I think the question and the answers need to be made public to determine if all of these killings of young black men are racially motivated.Quote:
Originally Posted by soulster
Are race relations really worst or is it the 24 hour news era we live in? Sadly, having been 1 of 4 black students that integrated my high school in '68 and called the "n" word everyday throughout my entire freshman year....race relations really seem to be worsening. I naively thought the day after President Obama was elected, after I shared election night with my best friend of 43 years who happens to be white....that America was a different place. [[Now I have to stop myself from wondering what some non people of color truly think and say).
You're not the only one who believed that we were moving towards a "post racial America"Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokiluis
as some like to call it. Some of my favorite authors and folks I admire in various fields of
the entertainment business also expressed that idea and though I still dig 'em and agree
it's a beautiful dream, I've never believed it. None of the social ills of our society will
ever completely disappear, at least not in any of our lifetimes because the seeds have been
planted too deep and sewed far too long. Individual people from different spheres may
come together, entire families may overcome biases but as far society as a whole the
contamination will linger, fester and swell in some places, erupt in others. We're just too
messed up. Too caught up in "versus" games and believe me it's not all white vs black or
black vs white.... it's endless...
Anyway, for what I'm seeing so far they're saying the kid was armed though the video
footage is shoddy. I'm of the thinking that if I point a gun at a cop I'm asking to be shot
and I couldn't see people protesting about it. JMO...
I have to agree with you though I haven't watched the video close enough. And even though I have been blessed to have the same very best friend for over 40+ yrs., I still have to deal with comments like, "well, you're not really Black". It's reached the point that I no longer even try to respond to such nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by splanky
We certainly have to take responsibility for our behavior sometimes. But a gypsy can come to America from the wilds of Romania and somehow think they are superior to black people.
Unfortunately, when we lost Dr. King, we have yet to recover having a voice that could lead us.
The promise early hip hop from intellect like KRS-One, Public Enemy, etc. has lost a lot of their impact as we have given way to endless party hip hop/rap.
Do colleges even offer Black History courses any longer? At least that helped me understand more of our legacy when I was in college.
And finally, there have been psychological analysis of the type of person usually drawn to the police force. More often than not, it is because of power complexes rather than an honest desire to protect and defend all peoples.
I still believe that in my personal relationships, color is not a factor.
But I would be even more foolish to think from a societal point of view, there DOES NOT remain an ugly false hierarchal structure designed to oppress.
I am a child of the 70s and I do not inherently trust the police.
Don't you know sarcasm when you see it?Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
Even having had family friends and relatives as cops I've never trusted the police. Still, I
consider them necessary evils in any attempt to form a civlized society. But that's the thing;
civility as I used to know it seems to rapidly vanishing all across every faction of American
life. People don't care about how their actions affect and influence others they just go
for themselves. "You do you, I'ma do me" is the standard today and even though I've always
been a champion of a person's right to his or her own unique individualism I've never
meant at whatever cost to those around us.
And BTW, I'm sure there are still colleges teaching Black History, I just wonder how many
black kids are actually signing up for courses. With the internet there are plenty of places
one can learn it, in fact I even enjoy reading the Little Known blog on Tom Joyner's
blackamericaweb.com. Still as much as I dislike these growing incidents of police
shooting or otherwise killing black men the activities of some of our brothers [[and sisters)
in the neighborhoods disgust me as much. There are not a people on this planet without
some baggage they need to let go of or tradition they need to dismiss...None...
I deal with that all the time from both Black and White people, as if we have to be some kind of monolith.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokiluis
Why the hell do we need a voice that could lead us? Again, we are individuals who are totally capable of thinking for ourselves. People like Charles Barkley and Dennis Rodman are allowed to have their opinions no matter how fucked-up I think they are. It's quite insulting to think that Black people need a "leader". I think Black America is beyond the need for a central spokesman.Quote:
Unfortunately, when we lost Dr. King, we have yet to recover having a voice that could lead us.
Remember that rap started out as party music before KRS-One, Public Enemy, or some others ever came on the scene. Remeber?Quote:
The promise early hip hop from intellect like KRS-One, Public Enemy, etc. has lost a lot of their impact as we have given way to endless party hip hop/rap.
When I was about eight years old, my father was concerned that, me living in the "White world", wouldn't know about the experience of Black people in America, so he made sure that I knew about our history, American history, and those who played a role in it. I'll say one thing: it sure offended a lot of my White friends all the way through college!Quote:
Do colleges even offer Black History courses any longer? At least that helped me understand more of our legacy when I was in college.
Can you link to some of those studies? A lot of people who enter civil service professions, and become lawyers, enter it with a desire to serve, defend, and protest all people. But, I have no doubt that some people become cops because they have secret control issues. This is where the psychological screening process comes in, if there is one. I have a feeling that this process is bypassed because many departments are hard-up for more police on the force and will take almost anyone who manages to graduate from an academy without thoroughly vetting them. Let's not even get into how easily military veterans are shooed in.Quote:
And finally, there have been psychological analysis of the type of person usually drawn to the police force. More often than not, it is because of power complexes rather than an honest desire to protect and defend all peoples.
I always become suspect when I know that the background of a friend has no Black people in it, that I am their only exposure to Black people. That doesn't have to be a bad thing, though.Quote:
I still believe that in my personal relationships, color is not a factor.
Of course there is! That is why we do not live in a post-racial society, whatever that is supposed to be. That nonsense came from Whites who probably hoped that the initial election of Barack Obama would change all of that. And, you know, it possibly could have happened if he hadn't had so much resistance from the tea-baggers, and others who object to his presence in the white house.Quote:
But I would be even more foolish to think from a societal point of view, there DOES NOT remain an ugly false hierarchal structure designed to oppress.
I'm also a child of the 60s and 70s, and do not trust the police. I especially don't trust them because my father was one.Quote:
I am a child of the 70s and I do not inherently trust the police.
We don't need leaders so much as we need a unified agenda to move forward. It was easier to identify in the '50s because Jim Crow laws were seen by 99% of Black folk as something that needed to be eliminated if we were to survive. Dr. King and Minister Shabazz were natural leaders thrown into the right time and place to focus millions on the target and the strategy to attain it. It's hard for people to get on board if they all want to do their own thing and the power structure is aware of it.
The reason the Occupy Movement and the Don't Shoot/My Hands Are Up/I Can't Breathe protests are doomed to fail are because nobody knows what they want or how to get it. If you don't work as a collective to strike at a societal choke point, all your marching, chanting, and rioting is going to peter out and nothing will get done. There are really only two ways to get what you want as far as societal change are concerned: 1) Unified election strategy to get the people in office [[who can gum up everything like the Tea Party did) who will enact legislation of change and 2) Cohesive economic strategy designed to force the supporters of the current system to capitulate and demand change.
If you're not willing to vote to get what you want and you're still giving your money to people who would sooner piss on you than pull you out of the gutter, then you're going to get what you have. And right now, there's neither a strategy for change nor anyone who is pulling people together to advise them on an agenda for putting it together. Democrats and Republicans are basically the same, all out to keep what they have. It serves both for 97% of us to fight each other instead of the system that permits 3% of the citizens to control 33% of the wealth.
THIS! Again, not a guidance, but the movement needs organization. Demonstrations will indeed go nowhere. It needs people who are willing to step up to the plate and get into politics. Don't fight the system from without, change it from within. Like the conservatives/tea-party, the "Hands-up, Don't shoot" movement needs to get serious. I am not talking about getting yourself two minutes on CNN and MSNBC, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Oz
The problem with the left is that they do not learn from the right. They refuse to play dirty, but don't understand that nice guys do finish last, and that the bad ones get their nut off first.
The two party system has failed America miserably. It worked as long as people with like minds could work together across the aisle but that's forbidden now. To suggest that a socially progressive/fiscally conservative Republican can't work with a socially progressive/fiscally conservative Democrat is ridiculous. It becomes an all-or-none proposition and as you see, it's none for everybody since nobody wants anyone [[read: President Obama) to take credit for anything that will help the country.
But look at who's affected the most and see their reactions to the bullshit that's going on. Poor people register in lower and lower numbers and don't vote. Hispanics are mad at the president for not doing more and they don't vote. Keep in mind, he's doing something whereas nobody else has done anything. Somehow, white people who have benefited the most from the president's policies blame him for the country's ills and the few who did vote last month voted to smack at the hand that's feeding them. In 20 years, white people will represent a minority of the population but it won't matter because everybody else either doesn't care or is unwilling to work together to achieve common goals.
What I want to know is is 27,000 cops ever came to the funeral of a slain Black or Latino killed at the hands of a cop? I would say...no.
That's because there has never been an unjustified police-involved homicide.
They didn't even send a message of condolence to the funeral of Eric Garner.Quote:
Originally Posted by soulster
In their warped minds right? I am sure that is what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Oz
Of course I was being sarcastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
I thought so Jerry. I knew you were cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Oz
Remember 'Cornbread, Earl and Me'? The same stuff is still going on 40 years after little Larry Fishbourne had the balls to stand up to the cops who killed his friend. Cops did the same intimidation of witnesses back then that they're doing more. Somebody should remake it while the topic is still hot.
I was 15 and saw it in the theaters. I remember it well. A good example of that same thing is the indictment of Ramsey Orta the young man that videotaped Eric Garner's murder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Oz
I agree. Curiously, the national media is staying away from that. A lot of people also don't know about the LAPD Rampart scandal or the fact that when Christopher Dorner went nuts a couple of years ago, it was because he tried to do the right thing by reporting bad cops and the department and the union railroaded him. That tells you as much as you need to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by marv2
it does say it all and it also makes it tough for me to view all of these tragedies with a one sided view. Lots of people have suffered because of the actions of the police. The police have suffered some casualties at the hands of criminals. Still they want you to forget their sins.