I'm listening to this download now from iTunes and this is clearly a transfer from vinyl.
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I'm listening to this download now from iTunes and this is clearly a transfer from vinyl.
I was just listening to it. I like it. I also gave a listenn to One Dozen Roses and Flying High Together.
I just listened to it again and you're right! Disappointing to say the least. I would hope the powers that be locate the mater tapes and rectify the matter ASAP. I was so excited to finally get these releases too!
To BayouMotownMan and blackguy69: I bought all three and my copies sound great. [[I typically detest anything that's dubbed from vinyl. I didn't sense one single trace of surface noise nor ticks and pops from beginning to end. Where did ya get your downloads, BayouMotownMan? Mine came from Amazon. - Gary
I downloaded from iTunes. I have reported this to someone influential at Motown Universal and on Monday they will ck this out. Several of these tracks have clear popping from vinyl. I can't imagine it would be any different if the download came from some other source.
Thank you for alerting us to this issue. Having overseen all of the hi-res remasters, having the reference downloads in hand, and knowing that three people - including myself - witnessed or participated in the transfer of an original analog master tape, this is likely a technical issue with the audio files somewhere in the chain. Whatever needs to be done will be taken care of.
To BayouMotwnMan: All I know is that my copies of Pocketful, Roses, and Flying sound terrific, as do Smokey's Touch, Essar, and Yes It's You. You might wanna go into Amazon and check out the sound quality for yourself. Like hwume said, it has to be a technical glitch with Itunes. Motown's standards are consistently high. I'm sure they would never release anything dubbed from vinyl.
Thanks Harry for all the great work you and your team do.
Does "somewhere in the chain" mean the problem is with ITunes?
BayouMotownMan [[or anyone else), could you please give me a track and time where you clearly hear a pop? I downloaded this [[not from Itunes) a few days ago along with several other titles. I haven't listened to it yet, but I did just listen to the first track and didn't hear any pops.
Nice to hear from you, Harry. It's important to hear from you on SDF and learn from you, Andy, and George about what is really going on. We understand that there is a large corporation behind Motown and Universal releases.
Thank you for all that you do.
First of all, I didn't ACCUSE anybody of anything I merely stated that my download of Pocketful from iTunes has several tracks that are clearly mastered from vinyl. It is only THAT lp from iTunes that has this, the others mentioned are clearly from the tapes. Several people have contacted me saying they could hear it on there downloads from iTunes as well.
It is possible that iTunes was hacked in some way because I know that none of the powers-that-be at Universal would have deliberately done this. That being said, I've no doubt that on Monday this issue will be rectified.
The sound quality on One Dozen Roses, Flying High Together and Tell Me Tomorrow are exceptional. I've not yet listened to the other Smokey 80s lps yet.
correction, the Yes It's You Lady lp.
Hi BayouMotownMan, I'm certainly not saying that you accused anyone of anything. If you hear pops in the recording, you did the right thing contacting Harry, and he thanked you for alerting him to the issue. It's better for him and everyone to get the issue sorted as quickly as possible to minimize the number of customers who have a problem and complain.
I'm still wondering, is it clear that "somewhere in the chain" means the problem is only with ITunes downloads? Could you please give me one example [[track, time) where there is a clear pop?
Flower Girl and the two or three tracks after Darling Dear
To BayouMotownMan: I wasn't implying that you were accusing anyone of anything, either. And I believed you from the start, especially when somebody else said that they experienced the same problem. You would think that the downloads would be from the same source and all possess the same quality, but something has obviously changed along the way, very possibly with itunes. That's why I suggested that you might try going into Amazon and give a test listen just to compare because my downloads were right-on perfect, as were another guy's. And, like I said, Motown's standards remain consistently high. If there's a problem, Harry will make it right. Good luck. Those albums are great. You surely want them sounding their best. - Gary
I bought my download from Qobuz. Just listened to those tracks and I don't hear any pops. Yes, must be an ITunes thing, I'm sure it will get sorted out tomorrow.
Good day,
I have just paid $9.99 and downloaded "A Pocket Full of Miracles" from the U.S. iTunes Store. I hear no clicks or pops - sounds pretty good, in fact, as it's "Mastered for iTunes" [[higher resolution audio). Not a plug, just true.
BayouMotownMan and justanothermotownfan, did you DL from iTunes U.S., or are you outside the U.S.? Trying to trace the source. And can you pinpoint a track title and time where you hear the noises?
Has anyone else had this issue? It's puzzling...
HW
All of the Miracles and Smokey solo titles issued digitally for the first time anywhere on August 19 were "Mastered for iTunes" - higher resolution process - and 'standard digital' elsewhere. Below is a screenshot from the US iTunes Store showing the "Mastered for iTunes" tag, and here is a link too: https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/a-...es/id906867429
We haven't had any other emails or comments about the pops, but it would help me personally to follow through for you if I had specifics; i.e., the digital time when it happens in which track number.
Just another Saturday night!
HW
Attachment 8453
[QUOTE=Motown Andy;225616][COLOR=#222222][FONT=Times]Thank you everyone for listening.
Ryon6, I believe the Smokey/Miracles sets will continue."
I am waiting for the box set that Andy says he believes will be continued. My fingers are definitely crossed. The 'Depend On Me' box set was the best. Became a deeper Miracle fan after listening to the that box set. Anxiously awaiting volume 2!!! [["The tears of a clown")
Those "pops" in Darling Dear are mouth clicks from either Smokey, as he is singing, or the Miracles opening their mouths in anticipation of their harmony parts.
Sometimes, in mastering, we remove certain click-y noises like that, owing to the digital age where these noises become something you *really notice* instead of part of the original vibe. In this case, the clicks were so far under the mix that to remove them would have messed with the audio.
BayouMotownMan, does this satisfy your concern, or are your pops more noticeable and/or in other songs? It may be a one-off anomaly as, again, this is the only notification we've received.
So, of the main Motown artists from 1961-1972, have all albums been released digitally or on CD now? With the exception being "G.I.T. On Broadway" by The Supremes and Temps, "The Temptations Show" and "On Broadway" by The Four Tops?
I wonder if Harry gets a lot of complaints about the queen of mouth clicks in the Universal catalog, Karen Carpenter. She apparantly sang so softly and close to the mike when recording that it's really noticable when wearing headphones on those Carpenter albums.....
There is always the possibility that the clicks that the complaining poster hears was generated by their own computer. It could be a buffer issue if he had copied the files to a CD-R, or it could be a crowded hard drive, or several other explanations.
Harry, I think it is confusing and misleading to the average consumer to call "Mastered for iTunes" files "high-resolution". Hi-rez should be reserved for 24-bit pre-masters. As you of course know, the 16-bit, 44.1 kHz, 256 kbps AAC files on iTunes are prepared from hi-rez files, but the resulting files on iTunes are still lower quality than lossless. Calling everything hi-rez only confuses the consumer and is, frankly, good for Apple. Harry, please don't take this as any sort of personal attack or criticism. I think it could lead to an interesting discussion.
Having stated that, MFiT provides a positive role in getting the industry to master from better quality sources. The fact that the master has to consciously be prepared rather than just copying a CD to a downloadable format is a step forward. My opinion, and the opinion of many others, is that Apple should just lead the industry in offering redbook lossless files, something almost no one else yet does here in the U.S.. If they won't do that, they could at least increase the bit-rate of their ACC files to at least 320 kbps, coupled with MFiT. But, why go through all that when they could just give the consumer lossless? This is beyond your involvement, and is really about Apple and its agendas.
For anyone outside of the industry who wants to know more about what "Mastered for iTunes" means:
http://ppl.ug/sD7_kXK87CY/
I'm sure someone out there hates those mouth clicks, but I think they should be left in. I am a fan of cleaning up noise not inherent in a recording, like electrical clicks, but if it is a singer, or fret noise, I say, leave it in.
Philles/Gary: a lot of variables go into the quality of what is commonly called a "needle drop". There are things taken from vinyl that are so expertly done that you cannot tell. I have personally done thousands of needledrops. It is my hobby and side business.
I would agree that some things UMG has released on iTunes were from vinyl sources, but some have been quietly remastered from tape.
Harry, thanks so much for making the remaining Smokey Robinson & The Miracles and Smokey Robinson [[solo) LPs available digitally! Those had been my top requests.
Yes, there are still quite a few, even if only considering releases from 1972 or earlier [[though I guess it depends on who one considers to be "the main Motown artists"). My top requests of the LPs remaining from that period:
Jr Walker & The All Stars - What Does It Take To Win Your Love
Jr Walker & The All Stars - A Gassssssssss!
Jr Walker & The All Stars - Moody Jr.
Jr Walker & The All Stars - Rainbow Funk
Jr Walker & The All Stars - Live [[1967)*
* Note - there is a cd of Jr Walker & The All Stars Live with the cover from the 1967 LP, but the music is actually the 1970 Live LP!
The Originals - Naturally Together
The Originals - Def.I.Ni.Tions
The Undisputed Truth - The Undisputed Truth
Jimmy Ruffin - The Groove Governor
Choker Campbell - Hits of the Sixties
Ok, not Motown and mostly after 1972, but how about the Four Tops ABC Dunhill albums?
Harry, I'll be happy to send you the one I downloaded. Popping is clearly heard on the beginning of Flower Girl, the que from Track s 4 & 5 are clearly from a turntable and at the end of track 6 is a couple seconds of vinyl hissing as the needle moves away from the music.
I would love to see all of Jr. Walker's lps listed above as well as "House Party" by the Temptations
Soulster, there may be exceptions, but not everyone takes the same care that you do with their music dubbed from vinyl. A few months ago, I downloaded Johnny Mathis' second Thom Bell-produced album, "Mathis Is". I was thrilled that this Philly masterpiece was finally available from the master tapes. Ha! The bass is jacked up so high it's pathetic, and there's surface noise and distortion throughout. It was obviously taken from a vinyl record and then fed through an equalizer to fatten it up or something. I've heard close-and-plays that sounded better! Definitely NOT the digital quality that I had expected. [[It's a shame, too, because Johnny's "I'm Coming Home" album sounds gorgeous on CD.) The CD that I burned myself from the "Mathis Is" vinyl LP years ago sounds better than the download. - Gary
I've heard so many vinyl transfers on ITunes and elsewhere [[clearly audible clicks and pops) that for me personally, if a title appears as a download that isn't available as a cd - then I automatically assume it's a vinyl transfer - unless I've seen promotion to the contrary.
I forget where I found the "Mathis Is" download, as it was one of my very first downloads from a few months ago. Since then, I've been getting all of my downloads from Amazon. Fourteen of them were Motown. To my ears, they sound really impressive -- not Universal-Japan CD quality, obviously, but clean and loud. As downloads go, I'm very pleased, although, like most of us, I prefer the physical CD release.
Very true! Anyone who has heard illegal copies of albums that are posted on the internet that were made from vinyl knows how high the quality can be, and that they cannot be identified as being vinyl dubs, as such. That makes me wonder why label that puts vinyl-sourced material on a CD or on iTunes or Amazon can't do the same as the pirates. Just to be clear, I never post my stuff illegally on the net. I do my drops for my personal archives.
Quote:
The bass is jacked up so high it's pathetic...
Now you know why I refuse to buy anything from bbr. They may be made from the master tapes, but they jack the bass on their CDs.
Soulster, re MFiT: point taken.
lakedistrictlad1: "I've heard so many vinyl transfers on ITunes and elsewhere..." Any titles from the UMe/Motown catalog of which we should be aware?
calvin: thank you for the list of suggestions. Many of them I look at, and go, "of course!"
BayouMM: feel free to send me clips. You know how to reach me.
Soulster, I understood your point when we discussed it before. True, the BBR remasterings are way too bassy on some releases, but at least they have other redeeming features which make them well-worth buying [[at least for my ears) -- which is more than I can say for the cheap, vinyl, cop-out download that somebody pawned off on us for the Johnny Mathis "Mathis Is" release.
You probably think i'm joking about the glue:
http://youtu.be/_gyvipBs6Vs
I've used this on the occasional noisy record. It gets rid of surface noise quite well.
And, I can make needledrops that sound as good as the CD, or better.