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Message |
 
Brian T. (mrclemma)
3-Pundit
Username: mrclemma
Post Number: 60
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 63.164.145.198
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 2:25 am: �� |   ��� |
I have two different copies of "Shop Around" by The Miracles on the Tamla "lines label". One has "L1" in the dead wax, which is fairly common. The other has "ZTSC67018" in the dead wax and my price guide doesn't list this one. Anyone an expert on this? |
Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k
Post Number: 429
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.232.128.224
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 4:07 am: �� | ��� |
I'm not an expert, but my ZTSC version has an extended and different sax in the break, and different strings?. I won't be back where it is until November, so I can't compare ZTSC numbers, or play it. If I remember correctly, the album version was a THIRD version, and I seem to remember hearing another alternate mix (possibly different version) among the master tapes. The Tamla lines 45 with the ZTSC numbers was selling at a higher price than the most common pressing, in the 1960s and early 1970s (when I knew prices). I assume that it's rarity viv-a-vis the more common pressing would have made that (then, relatively small) price gap increase over the years.
I'm making a wild guess here, that the ZTSC version was released only in the Detroit-Toledo, Northern Ohio, Northern Indiana- Indianapolis and Chicago-Milwaukee areas. And, perhaps it was only the initial release, and was pulled and replaced with the other version for most sales. I've found BOTH versions in Detroit, and BOTH in Chicago in the early sixties. The more common version must have been the National release.
(Message edited by Robb_K on August 09, 2004) |
mike s (mike_s)
4-Laureate
Username: mike_s
Post Number: 113
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.93.33.10
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 7:13 am: �� | ��� |
Hey Robb
A list I have of Motown masters has version 1 as the regional release in 9/60 (no details).
The national release was version 2 (H-55518-L1-DM001) released in 10/60. This is listed as also being on the Hi,We're the Miracles album the following year.
There is a third version listed as H-55518-A2 which was also released under the original number Tamla 54034 in 12/60.
That's the version I have - on the lines label.
Hope you followed all that!
I have played vs 2 and 3 back to back and can't spot any obvious difference |
mike s (mike_s)
4-Laureate
Username: mike_s
Post Number: 114
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.93.33.10
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 7:14 am: �� | ��� |
whoops,sorry. Msg above was really meant for Brian. |
Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k
Post Number: 437
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.232.144.3
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 8:17 am: �� | ��� |
Yes, now I remember! The A-2 version (alternate take was the different one. It had a twangy guitar solo included (extra) in the break. |
Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k
Post Number: 438
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.232.144.3
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 8:18 am: �� | ��� |
Yes, now I remember! The A-2 version (alternate take was the different one. It had a twangy guitar solo included (extra) in the break. THAT'S the one that has the greater sales value. |
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy)
4-Laureate
Username: ron_murphy
Post Number: 105
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.42.90.140
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 3:09 pm: �� | ��� |
here's the deal on "Shop Around"...there are 3 recorded versions of "Shop Around".
at the original session they recorded 2 versions 55518-A1 and 55518-A2. Gordy decided to press the A-2 version first but right after the records came back he changed his mind and decided to switch to the A-1 version, now since it took a couple weeks to print new labels they just pressed the A-1 using the labels printed with the 55518-A2 master number on them, labels were ordered for the A-1 version but these were only used for promos.
after having both versions pressed up and getting feedback from some DJ's, he knew he had a hit if he could re-record it with a different arrangment, so he called everyone back in for a 2nd session and they recorded the "HIT" version numbered L-1....once the record took off Gordy decided to press some copies at Columbia's LA plant and that's where the ZTSC copies come from, now on some of those the name Gordy in the writers credits was mis-spelled as Gordt.
on re-issues there were mistakes made of using the original stamper of the A-2 version because new employees at the pressing plant were only matching the stamper to the labels not knowing it was wrong, also in Canada the only version that was ever issued during the original release date was the A-1 version.
when Gordy got the L-1 back from the plant he drove all around Detroit trying to trade the "HIT" version copies for the 2 earlier versions. |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1164
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.48.65
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 3:16 pm: �� | ��� |
Ron,
You are TRULY a great historian and gentleman(with a great singing voice)
And, I'll say this again,it was a pleasure meeting you and talking with you this past April! |
John Lester (theboyfromxtown)
4-Laureate
Username: theboyfromxtown
Post Number: 107
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.44.165.231
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 3:16 pm: �� | ��� |
Ron
YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!!
The book...where's the book.......
..and personal appearances...where will they be held
LOL |
Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman
Post Number: 1165
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.48.65
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 3:22 pm: �� | ��� |
and..can I be your "axe man"??..of course not the "O.J." type of axe man! |
matt weingarden (mrfinewine)
1-Arriviste
Username: mrfinewine
Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 64.74.45.38
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 3:39 pm: �� | ��� |
hey, ron...do you mind taking us on a similar trip through all the variations of the contours' "whole lotta woman"? i'd greatly appreciate that!
best,
m |
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy)
4-Laureate
Username: ron_murphy
Post Number: 106
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.42.90.140
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 3:41 pm: �� | ��� |
thanks Bobby e. and John for the kind words. and I enjoyed talking with the phillysoulman while you were in Detroit, and I'm sure we'll meet up again. |
David Shettler (bigd_fortune)
1-Arriviste
Username: bigd_fortune
Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2004
Posted From: 152.163.252.200
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2004 - 6:47 pm: �� | ��� |
Ron, I second finewine's request for a little tour through Whole Lotta Woman's story.
Big D |
Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k
Post Number: 444
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.228.220.175
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 4:30 am: �� | ��� |
Thanks Ron. Personally, I like the A-1 version, with the great guitar riff in the break. I can't understand why he took it out for the "hit" version!
i don't know if I've ever heard the first version of "Whole lotta Woman". Is it available on CD? |
mike s (mike_s)
4-Laureate
Username: mike_s
Post Number: 117
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.93.33.10
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 9:08 am: �� | ��� |
Ron - wow, I leave the floor to you. Great info.
Mike |
dvdmike (dvdmike)
5-Doyen
Username: dvdmike
Post Number: 249
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.208.234.61
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 12:42 pm: �� | ��� |
If I'm not mistaken, the original version was cut in August or September and the remake which became the hit version was cut in early October. I'm sure Mr. Murphy could confirm or currect this. |
Brian T. (mrclemma)
3-Pundit
Username: mrclemma
Post Number: 67
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 205.188.116.139
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 6:17 pm: �� | ��� |
Robb, Mike S, dvd Mike and(drum roll, please)...Ron Murph: Thanks so much for your knowledge. I hope I'll be able to meet some of you at the WAB in an hour or two. |
Ron Murphy (ron_murphy)
4-Laureate
Username: ron_murphy
Post Number: 128
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.42.90.140
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 1:45 am: �� | ��� |
sorry dvdmike I lost track of this topic, yes your dates are most correct late August or early September of the 1st session and then early October for the session producing the hit version.
yes Robb K. I think it was too bad about the guitar licks not replayed on that 2nd session |