| Author | Message | ||
  Alain Nguyen (soulgems) 1-Arriviste Username: soulgems Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 65.166.187.218 |
I wonder if someone out there could shed some light on this topic. What makes a Philly record? I noticed many people refer to a song as Philly even though it was not recorded in Philly but only features similar strings or vocals arrangements to the ones recorded in Philadelphia. Can these records called Philly? Is it a song that was recorded and mixed in Philadelphia with Philadelphia session players? Is it the label that makes a Philly song,for example is everything under the P.I.R. label considered Philly? Is it because it uses the same core of musicians, producers and sound engineers? Are songs recorded outside of Philadelphia by Philly producers considered Philly, specifically Bobby Martin,Bobby Eli, T.Life, John Davis? Are songs recorded by Vince Montana or BHY on Salsoul considered Philly or ar they part of the Salsoul era? (Message edited by soulgems on August 06, 2004) | ||
Manny (manny) 5-Doyen Username: manny Post Number: 318 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.52.30 |
Hello, Soulgems and welcome! Of course, here are a couple of Philly masters who can apporting much more Light in thsi topic. (Bobby Eli, Weldon McDougal III, Phil Hurtt, Charlie Ingui,...). IMHO, the common denominator in all Philly produced or outside produced or phillysound imitations tracks are the "big-band / hall of sound" contrasting with soulful voices and funky bass-lines, and the "classically" strings. Those things are omnipresents in every sides of Salsoul, PIR, WMOT, Philly World, etc. More recently, have some things with the Phillysound Tag as Roy Ayer's "Sweet Tears" or some Incognito's CD's (as "100� And Rising"). Peace and Soul Food | ||
Robb_K (robb_k) 6-Zenith Username: robb_k Post Number: 425 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.232.129.70 |
If it's recorded in Philadelphia, or written, produced and sung by Philadelphia residents and released on a Philadelphia label, or sung by a female horse! | ||
Soulaholic (soulaholic) 5-Doyen Username: soulaholic Post Number: 385 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.40.105 |
If it sounds Philly it is Philly. | ||
Vonnie (vonnie) 5-Doyen Username: vonnie Post Number: 231 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.138 |
Robb, LOL, if it's sung by a female horse  . | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 423 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.249.240.166 |
For some reason, I always thought of the Philly sound as the works of Gamble & Huff., as the Motown sound was the work of HDH or Smokey Robinson. | ||
Carl Dixon (carl_dixon) 3-Pundit Username: carl_dixon Post Number: 63 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 82.44.203.80 |
To me, the sound was from a core of musicians and producers in the city from around 1969 to the end of the 70's. Anything recorded prior to that would be the beginnings and development of the sound we know today. For example, 'I'm gonna love you a long long time/Patti & the Emblems' was recorded in Philadelphia and is in a class of its own, but is not the Philly sound. Unlike 'A mother for my Children/The Whispers' is pure Philly to me. When �New York City� travelled to the city to cut 'I'm doin' fine', it was Thom Bell and all involved who gave it that special Philly treatment. Just look at Elton Johns recent Philly smash � recorded in Seattle!! I may be wrong, but that�s what I think. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1112 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.162.120.248 |
Medusa, Gamble and Huff were a mere fraction of what the Philly sound was as there was much more to it than just them. There was Thom Bell, Norman Harris,Ronnie Baker,Vince Montana, John Davis, Stan Watson, Phil Hurtt, Bunny Sigler, T. Conway, T. Life, Bobby Eli and a host of others as well a immense contributions by 'outside" producers such a Van Mc Coy, jacques Morali and Dave Crawford. And dont forget the major contributions from MFSB and Sigma Sound and their top notch engineering staff. As far as what made the Philly sound unique, were several factors including chord voicings that came from modern jazz, the juxtaposition between Norman's octave guitar and Vince's vibes, our unique swingin string section who really rocked, the Sigma live echo chamber, Eli's sitar,the Sweeties the male background and all the unique songs which made it timeless. | ||
Chi Drummer (chidrummer) 3-Pundit Username: chidrummer Post Number: 67 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 24.15.231.212 |
Eli, can you recomend a book that accurately chronicles the people and music of that time? Also, don't take this the wrong way, but do you guys (along with Barry White)consider yourselves the inventors of Disco? | ||
Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (weldon) 5-Doyen Username: weldon Post Number: 205 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.80.162.3 |
Hi Chi Drummer, there is a book called " House On Fire, The Rise And Full Of Philadelphia Soul" by John Jackson, that will tell the Philadelphia story, it will be out in Oct,2004 (Message edited by weldon on August 07, 2004) | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1127 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.0.140 |
Chi, Disco started way before our sound did, we just improved upon the genre. Earl Young basically created the classic "disco drum groove" on The Love I Lost and continued it on Ill Always Love My Mama, but we never felt as we singlehandedly created disco as the genre started in Europe, mainly France at the original Discotheques, hence the term "disco" which I loathe by the way. To us its was and is just music you could groove and dance to. | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 425 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.79.103.110 |
Hey Weldon, welcome back. | ||
Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (weldon) 5-Doyen Username: weldon Post Number: 206 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.80.162.3 |
Hey Medusa, I did not know you missed me (smile) I have been so busy,I have been working on a new version of "Yes I'm Ready" (you wait till you here this, It's a Tom Molton remix) I did the cd cover, and I have been in the studio with my artist Shirley Slaughter, you guys are going to love her,and I have been working with John Jackson, on the Philadelphia book,they are using my photos, I will post some of the photos on SD soon | ||
GO_GET_GONE_GIRL (gogogirl) 5-Doyen Username: gogogirl Post Number: 253 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 69.1.9.65 |
All, Hey Weldon. I missed you two. Last week or so - I mentioned that I thought I had heard a new version of "Yes I'm Ready." Anyway - I wish you well on the project. Btw - a man two doors down from me hosts a show on Sunday's from 1:00 to 6:00 p.m. It is a jazz show. The station is that Jazz station I mentioned - 90.7. Isn't that something? Well - anyway he is from Philly. He is about my age. I asked him if he heard of you - and he said yes. And especially after I mentioned "Yes I'm Ready." Small world indeed. Post some photos. Post some photos. LOL! | ||
Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (weldon) 5-Doyen Username: weldon Post Number: 207 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.80.162.3 |
Hey gogogirl, whats the DJ from Philly name? and I did a new version of "Yes I'm Ready" on Shirley Slaughter about a year ago, and sent it to some of my oldies DJ friends, I guess thay are playing it, | ||
Manny (manny) 5-Doyen Username: manny Post Number: 326 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.51.55 |
Hello Submarine to all! Hey, Mr. Weldon! I'm also glad for your posts, but for some "egoist" reason (smile!): i can't waiting for see your promised PIR artists photo collection, here in SD. I'm glad also for your salutable "hyperactivity" in the music bussines. Philly Sound keep on living! Peace & Soul Food | ||
GO_GET_GONE_GIRL (gogogirl) 5-Doyen Username: gogogirl Post Number: 255 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 69.1.9.65 |
All, Weldon - I think he said Bill Bolton. He was a school teacher of band for years he said. Now he is a Loan Officer at the Dept. of Education. I don't think he Dj-ed in Philly. I was going to the dentist office on Thursday morning for a root canal. It was a few minutes after 8:00, and he was watering the grass. We introduced ouselves - and then got to talking. Matter-of-fact - I was almost late - fooling w/him. LOL! He and his wife have no children - but do have two bassett hounds and three birds? LOL! Anyway - it truly is a small world when you meet your neighbor and he is into music like I am - and we are. LOL! The station is broadcast out of Alabama State. He said that he was getting ready to put some kind of web-i-sode (?) on the Net. I'll let you know when he does - and I'll also make sure I got his last name right. Yes - I heard a newer type version of the song on "The Nothing But Motown" station. It was a little more upbeat than the original - if I remember correctly. It sounded great just the same. That song used to be one of my all time fave when it was out - along with Hpnotized. LOL! Take it easy! | ||
Don (don) 6-Zenith Username: don Post Number: 572 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.75.61.223 |
To me PIR sound is timeless, creativity, class, style, regal, earthy-ess, and more important a message & groove. Whether it be dance, midtempo or a slow groove and in some cases a mellow mood. When PIR came on the scene I was living on the westside, I admit the side of town I came up in embrassed it naturally. Until I got to the southside folks here way deep into it. Cause even when I use to visit, all I heard was nothing but PIR or anything that was heavily part of Philly, even Little Anthony & The Emperials with was into it with "Help Me Find The Way To Say I Love You", it gives me crocodal bumps to this day. The westside think they know Philly, no way, I say the southside of Chi-Town knew about their Philly. The westside may know about their various JB records, but I found out when I moved south allthat even changed. I mean, every wanna be or so-called musician was wanting that sound, Philly was somethin'. The 80's was ridiculous. PIR was off the chain and off the hook. Musically in the 80's I felt it was it for me. Teddy, McFadden & Whitehead, The Stylistics, Lou Rawls, Dexter Wansel, The Jones Girls, Phyllis Hyman, Patti La Belle and The O'jays. I even followed The O'Jays when they we're with EMI, my friends has to give me back my cassettes of O'Jay stuff, even it's got PIR production written all over it. The 80's PIR was so profound I felt was for it's lush string arrangement and powerful horns, is why why I'm so attracted to strings now, I think for me then and even now I still consider being a student and a Philly Lover I'd say was listening to all The Masters. That moodiness that nite love romantic thang even on the daliy grind wanting to be back home with the one you love, whether being at home with Family it didn't matter. I felt that the 80's so good and so great I ex-spected more to come, at least Philly World was carrying on the torch. For me that is I still think of all the 80's stuff with a smile on my face, at times someone'll ask me "What's that smile on your face" or "what are you smiling about?". If they only knew-if they only knew. Musically I never felt so subdued, quiet and so serime next to RJ. To Be True Your Favorite Person Let's Make A Baby You're Body's Here With Me But Your Mind Is On The Other Side Of Town Stair Way To Heaven I Know How To Make You Mine Love T.K.O. You Got Your Hooks In Me Hurry Up This Way Again The Sweetest Pain Nights Over Eygpt Baby Get Ready etc, etc, etc, etc. A Devotee Philly Lover To The End Don | ||
Soulaholic (soulaholic) 5-Doyen Username: soulaholic Post Number: 387 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.40.105 |
In my humble opinion only: Philly is not just songs recorded on Philadelphia International Records. Philly is a certain sound that when you hear it you know it is Philly. These groups had Philly Tunes and some are not on PIR or from Philly. Yet that unique wonderful sound that ever flowing, harmonic pulsating groove that the boys in Philly created captured these artist, their musicans and producers and allowed them to create some of the finest examples of Philly ever pressed to wax. This is just a small, small list of great Phiily tunes. Sons of Robin Stone - Got to get you Back Universal Mind - Something Fishy is Going On Modulations - Can't Fight Your Love Philly Devotions - Just Can't Say Goodbye Rock Glazers - I believe in Love Executive Suite - When the Fuel Runs Out Four Below Zero - My Baby Got ESP Fantastic Johnny C - Waiting for the Rain Major Harris - Each Morning I Wake Up Five Specials - The More I get to Know You Free Spirit - Mr. Fix It Man Blue Magic - Welcome to the CLub Ace Spectrum - Don't Send Nobody Else Bingo - Can't Get Enough Hypnotics - Beware of the Stranger Whispers - Mother for my Children Chocoalte Syrup - You got a lot to Give Ujima - I'm not Ready Brothers Guiding Light - Getting Together Realistics - How can I forget you Double Exposure - My Love is Free Choice Four - Hook it Up Dells - Bring Back the Love of Yesterday Dramatics - A Thousand Shades of Blue Intrepids - After you had your fling, get down to the real thing Jimmy Ruffin - Fallin in Love with You Sister Sledge - Cream of the Crop The Joneses - Sugar Pie Guy Love Committee - One Day Of Peace Manhattans - Searching for Love Persuaders - Sure Shot Purple Reign - Love Shortage Trammps - Where Do we go From Here Voices of East Harlem - Wanted Dead or Alive First Choice - Player Trumains - Sore Loser Reggie Garner - Half a Cup Skip Mahoney & the Casuals - Janice These are Philly tunes and were all made between 1972 till about 1978 Philly is not just PIR. The people responsible for the Phiily sound could not and would not be contained by just one lable or studio. It was just to good a groove to be only from Philly. Ask Bobby or Weldon how many frequent flyer miles they earned during the 70's!!!! The number one reason why I collect 45's is to find every Philly tune pressed. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1133 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.0.140 |
Hey Brian, Thats some list you've got there. Talking of frequent flyer miles, we would have enough to start an airline of our own. As you had said, it wasnt just PIR and Sigma. The amount of sessions at Virtue and later, Alpha was staggering. We would studio hop quite a lot too and squeeze in sessions in between other sessions. I would often have Sigma 1 and 2 going at the same time. Maybe do a track upstairs while a mix was being set up downstairs. It was crazy, but loads of fun. Personally, I preferred a closed session with my stuff, but sometimes some of the other guys sessions would be rather chaotic at times. All in al, they were the best times of our lives. | ||
Soulaholic (soulaholic) 5-Doyen Username: soulaholic Post Number: 388 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.40.105 |
Bobby: A couple of those tunes are just a little bit better than the rest WINK WINK!!! | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1135 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.0.140 |
Thanks Thanks Brian! I have got to try and get back to Detroit soon to make one of your record get togethers. | ||
Soulaholic (soulaholic) 5-Doyen Username: soulaholic Post Number: 389 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.40.105 |
COOL | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1138 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.0.140 |
PS.. Im sorry I missed the one you had while I was there this past April, but I'll make it up to you!. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1756 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Bobby, Manny, Don & Carl, I couldn't have explained it any better. You guys hit the nail right on the head! | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1140 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.163.25.17 |
I suppose that we were all just at the right place at the right time. Its so uncanny how we all wound up in that aggregation . I suppose that Herb Johnson(RIP) was at the root of it all, and thru him I met Kenny, and Ronnie wound up at my house one day upon the recommendation of a young lady(I believe) from his old neighborhood, and I got him his first session with Lee Garrett(Linda Sue on Van Dyk) and Norman was Ronnie's girlfriends brother, and Earl was a last minute replacement for a drummer who never showed up at a session. The original vibe guy was Nick D'Amico and when he couldnt continue, then vince came in thru Don Renaldo's reccomendationlarry washington just appeared on the scene one day and never left, and Lenny pakula came in thru the "hippie connection" and as a reccomendation by Huff who I actually met about a year before Kenny at the Roxy Ballroom and Camden with the Lavenders.. Roland and Karl Chambers came thru Kenny and the Romeos. Man, that kind of hookup was a once in a lifetime thing AND we all fit like a glove. | ||
Juicefree20 (juicefree20) 6-Zenith Username: juicefree20 Post Number: 1766 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.46.184.162 |
Bobby, By the way, the other day I got the It's Rough Out Here LP on ebay for $9.99. Now that LP definitely had the Philly flavor. Then again, I have to consider the names of the musicians. Do you remember the instrumental jam, Share What You Got, Keep What You Need? Now, I know it's been almost 30 years but, what made them choose to put that on a vocal LP? That is a pretty ballad & should have gotten some play! | ||
Manny (manny) 5-Doyen Username: manny Post Number: 330 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.52.197 |
Hey, Don! I'm feel so identificate with you with your comments about PIR music in the 70's and the 80's...! I remember in the 80's, PIR was for me one of the little sources of good surprises in soul music. Practically all was so insipide and many soul greats were in a sort of "hivernation" status during the whole decade. Some others, did some very bad disco music. But, from Philly appears many soul and gospel flavoured gems as "Let Me Touch You" (O'Jays) or Patti Labelle ("The Spirit Is In It"), the last LP's from Teddy ("Heaven Only Knows"), etc. Hey, Mr. Electronic, I think appart from your sitar-tag, drumms by Earl and another "trademarks" of your sound you have mentioned, there was also the rock guitar riffs by TJ Tindall (in K-Jee for example) or alto sax by Zack Zackery or Lenny's organ. About the brothers Chambers (not The Chambers Brothers, smile!), I read that Roland was musical director for Marvin Gaye & Tammie Terrell. Also, i'm wondering about the reason why one very good fusion act as Yellow Sunshine (with Karl, Roland and Dexter Wansel) not had more success and more albums. Peace & Soul Food | ||
~medusa~ (~medusa) 6-Zenith Username: ~medusa Post Number: 431 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 68.249.245.127 |
Hey Weldon, I did hear the one you sent me, it was nice. I hope all works out for you, the best and the highest. | ||
Chi Drummer (chidrummer) 3-Pundit Username: chidrummer Post Number: 69 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 24.14.41.34 |
Thank you Mr. McDougal. I'll be all over that book when it comes out. Mr. Eli, thanks for clearing a few things up. I've often wondered which came first, Disco or PIR. Sounds like you guys are in the same position as Chuck Berry. Berry didn't invent Rock & Roll, but you can't play R&R without playing Chuck Berry. So that I'm clear, did Earl Young come up with the open hihat on the &'s or was that lick already apart of the Disco music you heard in France? Finally, thanks for IDing your guitar parts, now I know (for the most part)who's doing what on those fabulous records. | ||
Don (don) 6-Zenith Username: don Post Number: 575 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.77.35.211 |
Hi Soulaholic, I know Philly IR didn't just happen over night. Maybe you might thought I left out some things, I didn't. However, I'am impressed with some artist being from Philly and the one's being a Philly production and or artist not being from from there. I do reconise the artist & songs, but your talking about Philly styled production here, it's cool ain't nothing wrong with that. I'm more into Philly period. Labels like Vent, Philly Grove, Gamble, TSOP and/or PIR, Philly Groove, I guess Dionn-you know more on that line. I can think of many more songs and artist and it's alot for sure. The songs that may have got overlooked, I can put those songs with the 80's stuff I enjoy most. All the same with you Philly is something that nobody or no other companies can duplicate, IMHO. Don Chicago | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1146 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.163.46.22 |
Chi, Earl "invented" that hi hat thing . The love I lost was the first one. He also came up with that "skip beat" heard on a lot of house records. Nobody does it like Earl Young as he is an original! | ||
Vickie (vickie) 3-Pundit Username: vickie Post Number: 52 Registered: 3-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.46 |
Eli playing guitar makes a Philly record. Eli writing awesome lyrics makes a Philly record. And them other fellas too, Gamble and Huff I love the Philly sound as much as I love Motown... | ||
Soulaholic (soulaholic) 5-Doyen Username: soulaholic Post Number: 390 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.41.40.105 |
Hello Don: I do understand that you are singling out PIR and it's run during the 80's as awesome tunes which they are, but some individuals get confused by what is meant by the "Philly" sound. The "Philly Style" was over by the late 70's there are a few tunes after that, that sounded Philly, but that was just tunes that where influenced by the "Philly" movement. A tune on PIR does not automatically make it a "Philly" groove. A lot of individuals are often confused by this. The roots of Philly goes back to labels like Northern, Neptune, ATCO, Janus, Golden Fleece, Philly Groove, Bell, Red Coach, Phil La Soul and many many others along with the Vent's TSOP's and PIR's of the world. Here is a list of Artist that had "Phiily" style tunes. Some would not be considered a typical "Philly" artist: Ace Spectrum Barbara Acklin Al Hudson & The Soul Partners Ambassadors Ancostia Aristocrats Thom Bell Bingo Black Ivory Blue Magic Blue Notes Bloodstone Brief Encounter Brothers by Choice Brotherly Love Brothers Guiding Light Broadway Brown Sugar Chain Reaction Jean Carn Chapter One Chapter Three Chain Reaction Change of Pace Chi-lites Chocolate Syrup Choice Four Terry Collins Continental Four Charen Cotten Creations Deblanc Delfonics Dells Detroit Emeralds Little Dooley Lamont Dozer Double Exposure Dramatics Duponts Ebonys Ecstacy, Passion & Pain Eight Minutes Eli's Second Coming Enchantments Elements of Love Eleventh Commandment Ethics Executive Suite Family Connection Fantastic Johnny C Fantastic Four Final Decisions Final Touch Finishing Touch First Choice Five Specials Four Below Zero Fourmations Free Spirit Futures Reggie Garner Kenneth Gamble Gaslights Gloria Gaynor Geminiles Ghetto Child Major Harris High n Mighty Eddie Holman Honey & the Bees Leon Huff Phyllis Hyman Hypnotics Impact Inclinations Independents Image Imaginations Instant Funk Intrepids Intruders Invitations Jermaine Jackson Jay & the Techniques Jones Girls Rosey Jones Joneses Jermaine Jackson Kaleidescope Patti Labelle Leon Lee Love Committee Love Foundation Van Mc Coy Major Lance Manhattans Masquerades McFadden & Whitehead Harold Melvin Mighty Clouds of Joy Miracles Mellow Moods MFSB Modulations Moments Monday After New York City New Censations Notations O�Jays Billy Paul Paulie 3 Shoes the Philly Don Peoples Choice Teddy Pendergrass Gentle Persuasions Persuasions Philadelphia Story Philadelphia International All-stars Philly Ambassadors Philly Devotions Persuaders Purple Reign Quadraphonics Quickest Way Out Lou Rawls Real Thing Realistics Reflection Reflections (different group w/ s on the end) Revelations Rock Glazers Dee Dee Sharp Bunny Sigler Silk Sins of Satin Sister Sledge State Department Skip Maohaney & The Casuals Sly, Slick & Wicked Sons of Robin Stone South Shore Commission Spinners Split Image Street People Diane Steinberg Stylistics Sweet Thunder Talk of the Town Tempress Theatrics Third Image T.N.J.�s Tomorrows Promise Toppiks Touch of Class Trammps Three Degrees Thymes Trumains Twenty First Century Ujima Universal Mind Ultra High Frequency Vanguards Vibrations Vee Voices of East Harlem Voice Masters Dion Warwick Ronnie Walker Whatnuts Anthony White Dexter Wansel Johnny Williams Whispers Wynd Chimes Younghearts To name a few, as you can see "Philly" was the bomb for quite a while and a lot of artist wanted to groove to the ZIP!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Message edited by Soulaholic on August 08, 2004) | ||
Chi Drummer (chidrummer) 4-Laureate Username: chidrummer Post Number: 71 Registered: 5-2004 Posted From: 24.14.41.45 |
Got it! I used to think that TSOP (The Soul Train theme) was the first one. I now consider myself better "schooled" and will pass this bit history on to my students. Thanks much Mr. Eli | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1147 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.163.46.22 |
Any time Chi! The Love I lost and.... Mama were recorded in 1972 and TSOP in '73. | ||
Destruction (destruction) 5-Doyen Username: destruction Post Number: 247 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 69.139.236.125 |
Soulaholic, Quite a list, but I see where you're going and I'm witcha, but with a question. Which songs by Barbara Acklin and the Persuasions would you consider "Philly style?" | ||
Soulaholic (soulaholic) 5-Doyen Username: soulaholic Post Number: 393 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.251.9.20 |
Hello Destruction: Good observation The Persuasions an all time great accappella group, doing Philly??? Guess I was typing and not thinking on that one. B. Acklin - "I'll bake me a man " classic club/philly/pop female choon from the early 70's Good eye D. | ||
Manny (manny) 5-Doyen Username: manny Post Number: 336 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.51.230 |
Hello Phillybusters! I admit this can be 100% subjective, but i find some "Philly Spirit" in these not produced in Philly songs: I think firsty in some songs by Chi-lites with the collaboration of Quinton Joseph wich have very Philly flavour (as "We Need Order"). And, curiously, i believe was after, Quinton come to the Sigma Sound Studios! -"Back To Earth" Cat Stevens -Some Cristopher Cross songs (the album with the flamingo illustration) -"Us", "Now" and some other tunes by Richard Tee in his "Natural Ingredients" album -Many songs by Lisa Stanfield. She have one that reminded my in Teddy's "Don't Hurt Now" -"Fountain Of Life" is, perhaps, the most "Phillysound" by Incognito I got many other than don't remember by now! (with this hot summer here in Spain, i got only a neurone by minimum service!) Peace! | ||
Keith Herschell (keith_herschell) 2-Debutant Username: keith_herschell Post Number: 11 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 81.134.207.166 |
Hi All The first records that made me aware of what we now call the Philly sound was the Neptune records, particularly the O�Jays �Looky looky� and �Deeper in love�, but I don�t think it was until 'Backstabbers' and 'I'll be around� that it became apparent, and that would have been around Spring 1972. Prior to those I was aware of the recordings that were made in Philly, but were they Philly sound. All of the Delphonics recordings had a distinctive sound. Another distinctive sound was all of the �Horse� type things, the Jerry Butler recordings he did with G&H, and earlier than all of those were the Cameo and Parkway recordings. They were all distinctive, but did they have a Philly Sound. Of course, this is only the perspective as we knew it in the UK. The US experience may have been different. Keith Herschell - London | ||
Richard Felstead (felstead2001) 4-Laureate Username: felstead2001 Post Number: 82 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 128.40.91.183 |
The right ingredients which includes a whole lot of love. | ||
Alain Nguyen (soulgems) 1-Arriviste Username: soulgems Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 65.166.187.218 |
Speaking of Philly Spirit I recently found out Larry Gold a former member of MFSB did the string arrangements on Brandy & Monica - The boy is mine, Jlo - If you had my love, Musiq - don't Change, in doing so he managed to inject some "philly spirit" in modern productions. It shows how influential Philly soul was in shaping urban contemporary music. I always believed Motown, James Brown and Philly have been the major influences on today's R&B. Are you aware of similar contributions by Motown or Philly producers/musicians to contemporary music? | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1204 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.56.214 |
yes, Larry was one of the cellists in our band. he now owns "The Studio" which is the place where all the neo soul stuff is recorded, among other things. He has two SSL romms and a pre production suite as well as rooms for the Roots and Axis Music group. Its a big airy, lofty place on 7th and Callowhill right next to the Electric Factory. | ||
Carl Dixon (carl_dixon) 3-Pundit Username: carl_dixon Post Number: 65 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 195.153.219.170 |
Keith - I'll go with that. I had a number of Neptune recordings too, albeit I bought them in 1973. It was the first education I had about the roots of the Philly sound. The sophisticated Philly tracks that were turning up all over the place in the early seventies were an eye opener. Once more with feeling/The whispers for example - what a nice number. Those harmonies, high frequncies on the cymbols, and that bass drum, just wonderful (plus I was in Lorette de mar when I first heard it - Manny, where's the Sangria??) | ||
Manny (manny) 5-Doyen Username: manny Post Number: 343 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.52.5 |
Hey, Carl! You were also in Lloret de Mar when hearded for the first time MFSB's "Universal Love" album, i remember you tolds some time ago. Lloret and Tossa de Mar are two places very sophisticated for heard sophisticated music. BTW, I've heard Philly Sound and Motown in the walkmans traveling in bicycle or making trekking trough the Pyrinees Mountains: "Love (for the Phillysound) As No Time Or Place"! (Smile!) I have had many hangover because the sangria (some people make some bizarre blends!). At the Summer I prefer fresh white wine in "porr�n" or beer with lemonade ("xamp�"). Hey, Alain, Also Vincent Montana have recent collaborations with contemporary artists. He collaborated with Incognito in a nice version of Ronnie Law's "Always There", with his unmistakably vibes. Also is the author of practically all the strings arrangements in MAW's "Nuyorican Soul". Bunny Sigler is also working today with some Nu-Soul acts. Peace & Philly Soul Food | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1209 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.162.127.172 |
manny, I'd love to have an x-ample of that xampu` | ||
1wicked (1wicked) 5-Doyen Username: 1wicked Post Number: 221 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 24.126.64.72 |
Ahhhh Manny...a believer !! I never tried "xampu'"...but beer with 7-UP or Sprite used to be one of my favorite summer beverages (when I consumed alcohol). Sooooooo refreshing ! | ||
Keith Herschell (keith_herschell) 2-Debutant Username: keith_herschell Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2004 Posted From: 81.134.69.21 |
Isn't beer with lemonade what I have always called shandy. Try beer with Ginger beer. Keith Herschell - London | ||
Alain Nguyen (soulgems) 1-Arriviste Username: soulgems Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 65.166.187.218 |
Manny, Speaking of Vince Montana, I am currently working on a mix CD called "Party Vibes" It is a tribute to Vince as a musician and producer. It is meant to bridge the gap between the old and new generation and illustrate how Vince helped define dance music as we know it today, with his trademark string arrangements, uplifting vocals and happy groove! The track selection goes from Glenn Underground - Love Jazz #2 Spiller - Groove Jet Salsoul Orchestra - Runaway, You're Just The Right Size, Salsoul Rainbow, Nice N Nasty, It's Good For The soul, Ooh I Love It, Take Some Time Out Astrud Gilberto - The Girl from Ipanema Charo - Dance A Little Bit Closer Sounds of Inner City - Mary Hartman Double Exposure - Everyman Montana Sextet - Heavy Vibes Sweet Thunder - Everybody's Singing Love Songs The O'jays - I Love Music MFSB - Love Is The Message Goody Goody - It Looks Like Love Those interested let me know & I'll send you a free copy once VMJ has put his seal of approval on it. | ||
Manny (manny) 5-Doyen Username: manny Post Number: 346 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 217.124.52.1 |
Hi again, Phillybusters! Hello, Mr. "Electronic", Keith and 1Wicked, Yes, "xamp�" is a so refreshing drinking! And also easy to make: a beer (a bottle of 33 cl) and a bottle of lemonade (Fanta or Shweppes), both very cold and blended in a coup "glac�e". Also, when i traveling in bycicle i takes a bottle of "domestical Isostar", consisting in juice of natural lemon, sugar and water, very cold. Very refreshing and without alcohol. Hello again, Alain Very interesting that your explains. Are you a mixer or re-mixer as Roger S�nchez? (Smile!) I got practically all of this list. But have titles enough that i don't have for got interest. Are re-mixes, original lenght album versions...? Have you listening the cover of "Heavy Vibes" by UK acid-jazz act Vibraphonic? Here in Spain, a authentic jazz-fusion athority in the radio and newpapers, Antonio Fern�ndez, writed a article where says that Vince Montana Jr. and Lonnie liston Smith are the two underground heroes of the groove. Peace & Soul Food | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1239 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.25.216 |
Alain, That is such a wonderful thing you are doing to honor Vince and his accomplishments. Vince was even somewhat responsible for Vonnie and I to reunite, but thats a story all unto itself! I would love to get a copy of it so I can let Vince hear it. | ||
Alain Nguyen (soulgems) 1-Arriviste Username: soulgems Post Number: 10 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 65.166.187.218 |
Manny, I haven't heard the Vibraphonic version of Heavy Vibes so I'm ordering the CD as we speak. I have been a club DJ for years. Now I mainly work on mixshows and mix cds for radios in the U.S. and in France. Personally, I don't even like the word remix anymore, I think it should be called re-constructing. It does not respect the integrity of the song. This being said, in many cases, I have to re-edit songs so I can beatmatch them or create breaks or extend certain parts. You don't know how hard it is to mix 60's and 70's records until you try it! It's always been a dilema to me. How much remixing can you do before losing the integrity of the song? So, I try to stick to re-editing. For the purists out there I realize you shouldn't mess with a classic. But, in my opinion, there are instances where it was succesfully done. I can think of a few: Danny Krivit's remix of MFSB - Love is the message, Larry Levan's remix of Jimmy Castor Bunch - It Just Begun, Tom Moulton remix of First Choice - Dr Love. But the main reason I would re-edit a song is because I want to be able to play it to younger audiences making it more relevant in the context it is being played and create appreciation or interest in the music I like the most, which happens to be Motown and Philly! | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1240 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.25.216 |
Alain, I totally agree with your assessment of the term "remix" and it being a misnomer. In fact, when Tom Moulton first started in the biz, he essentially just did edits to lengthen or put breaks into as song, etc. When he started to work on the multi tracks , he did not re mix. He did the actual mix. We producers just gave him the multi's and he went at it, undisturbed. BTW, during the mix session of Dr. Love, Tom had a mild heart attack and had to be rushed to the hospital! | ||
soulseeker (soulseeker) 3-Pundit Username: soulseeker Post Number: 35 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 192.94.3.10 |
What distinguished the Philly sound IMO is the music. The backing bands were put out front right there with the vocalists. Especially on stuff by the Ojays, Harold Melvin etc. Another distinguishing attribute is their uptempto cuts were truly danceable cuts. They took soul music from the fingersnapping era or foot stomping blues era to another level. The straight out boogying era. And the artists were especially good vocalists who seemed were left to interpret songs (especially ballads) in their own way and holding nothing back in their delivery. Great stuff. | ||
Alain Nguyen (soulgems) 2-Debutant Username: soulgems Post Number: 11 Registered: 7-2004 Posted From: 65.166.187.218 |
Bobby, Vince gracefully provided some of the audio material on the CD, so I think he'll be glad to hear it. It took me a while to narrow it down to a 74 min mix. There is so much quality music he did. Some tracks I wanted to include were William DeVaughn - Be Thankful for what you got, Eddie Kendricks - Keep on Trucking, Montana Sextet - Warp Factor, MAW - Nautilus, Black Ivory - What Goes Around Comes Around, Kemo Sabe - Geronimo, that showed the mellow side of him but decided not to because they may not be true to his spirit. He might disagree. In my mind it has to be dance oriented to be of some relevance to the young generation. You're probably playing on most of these tracks too! I think you'll agree after listening to the mix, it gives the listener another appreciation of his work. It's very powerful when you put all these tracks together. Even if you know all the songs it's still better than the sum of its parts! But I want Vince to Ok the track selection and mixing sequence before going any further. I'll email you to get your mailing info so I can send you a copy. | ||
Eli (phillysoulman) 6-Zenith Username: phillysoulman Post Number: 1244 Registered: 4-2004 Posted From: 68.236.25.216 |
Thanks Alain, I look forward to hearing it! |
