Soulful DetroitArchives - July 2004 � Phil Hurtt Previous Next

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David Meikle (david_meikle)
5-Doyen
Username: david_meikle

Post Number: 288
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 82.1.161.230
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 6:18 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Phil

Sorry about the delay. Our package doesn't seem to like the way some words are spelled! Strange.

I'd like to ask you about your work with Ben Aiken. Beautiful music. And how did he get from Loma to Philly or vice versa (maybe that's a question for Davie Gordon).

Have a great time at SD.

David
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 421
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.232.141.108
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 5:56 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Didn't Jerry Ragovoy produce all Ben's Loma work? That was done out of Philly, right? Maybe he was always there. Loma was WB's soul outlet. They didn't have their own production. Located in L.A., they did have knowledge of a lot of L.A. product, and so picked up a fair amount. But, they also picked up a lot from NY, Philadelphia, and other parts of USA. Chicago and Detroit were noticeably absent, however.
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David Meikle (david_meikle)
5-Doyen
Username: david_meikle

Post Number: 289
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 81.130.211.124
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 8:40 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Robb
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Davie Gordon (davie_gordon)
4-Laureate
Username: davie_gordon

Post Number: 121
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.93.33.10
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 11:09 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ben Aiken ended up on Loma through Jerry Ragavoy's
work with Lorraine Ellison and Sam Bell of the
Enchanters who crop up in the writer credits of
Ben's records. Jerry was the east coast A&R director for Loma so when he got the job he signed the Enchanters and Ben to WB/Loma contracts. The main arranger for this period was
Gary Sherman so it looks as if Ben's Loma
tracks were recorded in New York.

The Philly Groove tracks are from a few years later - early seventies.

Davie
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
1-Arriviste
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 6
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 11:31 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robb/Dave,
Hi guys, i can see SDR folks are SHARP, you're going to shake up the old "gray matter".
You may have to enlighten me re:loma.
Bunny Sigler and i wrote and produced a few tunes
on Ben for Stan watson around 1970-71, one stands out as one of my favorite songs written by Sigler and i in the "Mad House" a ballad "When the bottoms falls out. I believe that most if not all of Ben's recording was done in Philly.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1080
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.35.84
Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 11:38 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep.
When the bottom falls out was one of my fave Ben Aiken songs.
He is one of Phily's unsung soul heros.
BTW,I believe that Ben is presently a custodian at Philly's city hall.
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Davie Gordon (davie_gordon)
4-Laureate
Username: davie_gordon

Post Number: 123
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.93.33.10
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 5:11 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Phil,

Thanks - there's a few of us on the forum who
try our best to pass on some knowledge of all
those hundreds of great unknowns. We're all grateful to people like Bobby and yourself
who can chime in and tell us where we get it wrong
and shine some personal light on these people who are only known to us, over here anyway, from
their records.

Loma was Warner Brothers' subsidiary for their
soul artists - the label was set up in late '64
under Bob Krasnow who operated out of Warners'
offices in Los Angeles. Russ Regan who'd later head 20th Century Records took over in '66
and signed up Jerry Ragavoy to handle the East
Coast. Loma issued 105 singles between 64 - 68
including releases by the Olympics, Ike & Tina
Turner, J J Jackson and dozens of one-off releases
by acts they'd picked up in deals with independent producers from NY, LA, Chicago and Texas. Through the Jerry Ragavoy
connection they had Lorraine Ellison, Ben Aiken,
Lonnie Youngblood and the Enchanters as well as non-Philly artists like Linda Jones. Over the years, when there isn't that pressure to get on the charts the label's output can be appreciated on its own merits and there's a lot of good stuff there.
There was a 2-cd set issued a few years ago that
compiled many of the better releases which is well
woth picking up if you can find it.

I'll get my notes together and post a Ben Aiken
discography - "When The Bottom Falls Out" is one
of his Philly Groove singles.

Bobby, it's a shame that artists like Ben have no chance of getting a deal these days but looking on the bright side I'm glad he's got a regular pay
cheque coming in - and if you bump into him you
can tell him that people are still listening to his records. That should be some consolation.

I had to read your post twice - at first I read it
that he was "a custodian OF city hall" which didn't sound so good :-)

Davie
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1725
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 6:12 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Everyone,

I have that 7 volume Loma set. I though that Ben Aiken was pretty good & wondered why I had never heard of him before. I really loved his versions of God Bless The Girl & Me, Baby You Move Me.

Now, I'm about to show some real ignorance. I have a the Rhino Soul Shots LP series. They described him as a "Blue Eyed" Soul singer. Other folks said that he was Black & I thought that he was as well. Who's right here? I never heard of a Black "Blue Eyed" Soul singer. Can anyone clarify this for me??
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1094
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 70.16.130.2
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 6:24 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Juice,
Ben is a brother indeed.

Another decent Ben Aiken song was One and one is five, on Philly Groove which was penned by William hart of the Delfonics.

It appears on that Kent Philly Groove compilation.
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David Meikle (david_meikle)
5-Doyen
Username: david_meikle

Post Number: 291
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 82.1.161.230
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 6:31 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's Ben on a Collectables cd.

My fav tracks by Ben "One and one is five" by Hart/Fauntleroy and "Handle it with care" by Sigler/Hurtt.

Also "Satisfied" on the Loma label which was written by Bell/Ellison and Arr R Tee & Prod G Kerr.

Great music.
ben aiken
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1727
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 6:31 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Bobby,

I thought so & as I'd never seen a picture of Ben, I thought that perhaps I might be wrong. If you should see Ben, please be sure to let him know that he is held in high regard as one of the best "Blue Eyed" Soul men. He should get a kick out of that :-)

Where, oh where do they find these music experts from anyway???
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Davie Gordon (davie_gordon)
4-Laureate
Username: davie_gordon

Post Number: 127
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.93.33.10
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 6:37 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice, whoever wrote those notes is confusing Ben
Aiken with Ben Atkins, a Memphis based singer who is indeed a blue-eyed soulster.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 1729
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 6:44 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

David: Thank you very much for posting Bens' picture.

Davie: That would be understandable & certainly not the first time that's happened.

Thanks guys for clearing this up for me.
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Nosey (nosey)
5-Doyen
Username: nosey

Post Number: 188
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 152.163.252.200
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 10:24 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello Mr. Hurtt. My sister gave me Ava William's cd as a Christmas present two years ago. She and Ava attend the same church. I'm surprised at the lack of airplay it received on WDAS; fortunately, I listen to Gospel Highway 11, the better station in my view. My favorites are, "Called to Worship" and "I Love the Way You Treat Me". That song should have been a mega hit. That cd was huge! What happened?
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
2-Debutant
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 13
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:15 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Nosey,
Thank you for your comments, i'll pass it on to Ava she'll be delighted. What happened? In my humble 0pinion,the Gospel music industry unfortunately has learned all the "Bad Habits" of the Secular side of the industry. Yes money is very important,but it should never be more important than the Message. It also mirrors the secular side by chasing "The Hit" or who ever is hot at the time. There is a play list of approx.
20 artist who record for a few lables and are distributed by a few majors,And one organization that controls all gosple announcers,Guess who controls them? A lot of good hard work and creativity has been "lost in the sauce".
There have been complaints (hence the shake-up at a few stations), but more needs to be done.
You've heard Ava Williams so you know the caliber
of talent we're talkng about,but it's not over, I know some one who has the last word. Thank you Nosey
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Mark Speck (mark_speck)
4-Laureate
Username: mark_speck

Post Number: 92
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 63.188.113.237
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 12:55 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello and welcome to Mr. Phil Hurtt!

Just wanted to say that I am a big fan of your songwriting and production. Your name on a record is like the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval--it ensures quality soul sound.

Hope you enjoy it here--lotsa good folks, and they love the music!

Best,

Mark
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Caleb (caleb7)
2-Debutant
Username: caleb7

Post Number: 13
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 206.149.212.56
Posted on Saturday, August 07, 2004 - 1:20 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil Hurtt-coolness!!Welcome aboard!!Personal favorite record:"I'll Be Around"-Spinners.Lyric by Phil Hurtt-it's a classic!!Can you share your personal memories of the writing session with this.Thank you,Caleb
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
2-Debutant
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 17
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:58 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Caleb,
Thank you for the welcome and the kind words.
With regards to "I'll be around" there was'nt much of a writing session per se. I was in the "mad house" with Bunny working on material for the then untitled Ojays lp ((Backstabbers).
Tommy came in and ask i could help him finish
a tune. He already had the basic track laid,so we went around to his office where he walked me through the melody. Linda creed was on her honeymoon and tommy was a little pressed to finish that first Spinners lp. I took a taped copy of the track home that night. The next day i sat down with tommy and let him hear what i had .
" Hey This is Perfect Man", which was music to my ears, Tommy is a perfectionist. I'll Be Around was originally the"B" side.
By the way, when it became a "Hit", Everytime Linda saw me in the hall she would chase me yellin
" Phil Hurtt stole my song". She was a sweetheart. I would yell back "I hope the honeymoon was worth it". Those where magical times.
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
2-Debutant
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 18
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 12:06 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Mark,
Thank you for your welcome and your comments.
I can't tell you how much your kind words meant to me. I'm really enjoing SDR.
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Mark Speck (mark_speck)
4-Laureate
Username: mark_speck

Post Number: 100
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 63.188.137.23
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 12:11 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My pleasure, Phil. Glad to see you're enjoying the SDF--it's a great bunch of folks!

Best,

Mark
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1188
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.48.65
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 12:11 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Magical times times one million!
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Caleb (caleb7)
2-Debutant
Username: caleb7

Post Number: 14
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 4.250.132.56
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 1:39 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil,that's outstanding.There was another tune you wrote with Thom's brother Tony called,"Somebody's Got To Do Something"-Persauders-another classic!!Thoroughly enjoyed this in my youth.Saw where you did quite a few tunes with Tony.He was a nice talent.Was grieved hearing about his passing.Read on here where you attended Thom's surprise birthday party last year-a mighty bash!!Must of felt good to see some old friends(good for the soul sometimes).Thanks for your reply,look forward to reading more of your posts.Jesus is Lord!!Caleb
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Richard Felstead (felstead2001)
4-Laureate
Username: felstead2001

Post Number: 81
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 128.40.91.183
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 4:36 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can I also say it's a pleasure to have you on here Phil.

Your music and lyrics have kept us soul fans in the UK happy for years.

You might also be delighted to hear that your track "Giving It Back" still gets played on radio today, and to many people's ears represents the classier side of disco music.
The production and strings on that track are so cool.

Can you shed any light on the background of this tune.

Thanks in advance. :-))


Rich.
www.solarradio.com
The Home Of Soul
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
2-Debutant
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 20
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 1:14 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Caleb,
Thanks for remembering Tony, he was like a little brother to me. His daughter Angela is my god-daughter, her mother Mildred(Tony's Ex) is a wonderful and gracious lady.
That song "somebody's got to do something" was my
fave on that Lp. I had a heated exchange with a certain A/R wannabe at Atlantic. I wanted to drop "somebody..,and he insisted on releasing
"the best thing that ever happen". I warned him that the moment he did, Buddah would drop Gladys on us. Sure enough ,we got half way up the R&B charts and "here comes Gladys Knight".
Tommy's party was incredible. His sister Barbara,ask me to help with the surprise by contacting the philly family. We had a great time.
I was looking around the room, it was hard to conceive of that much talent being in one place.
I will try to post a few pictures from that evening,Tommy and I, Babbit,Bobby, Vonnie and myself.

Yes HE certianly is LORD.
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Carl Dixon (carl_dixon)
3-Pundit
Username: carl_dixon

Post Number: 67
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.153.219.170
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 1:53 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Greetings Phil from London. 'Mama never told me' - great tune, great production. Was that you Bobby on the electric effects guitar?
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1218
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.162.127.172
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 1:57 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why of course Carl!!

I think Steve Gadd was the drummer, is that right Phil.
I somehow remember Steve introducing himself to us.
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
2-Debutant
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 23
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 2:25 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Carl,
Thank you for the compliment and the greeting. Sister Sledge " Mamma never told me". That was another one that slipped thru the cracks.
Kathy was 13 when we recorded that. The UK has been good to us, we luv ya.

Bobby I do belive you are correct, Steve Gadd was the drummer. I beleive that was his first session work in Philly. I'll Check.
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Carl Dixon (carl_dixon)
3-Pundit
Username: carl_dixon

Post Number: 69
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.153.219.170
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 2:35 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thirteen. I would say that was her lucky number! That was the only Sister Sledge single I ever bought and in addition, I never earnt much in those days and rarely bought new singles. So, 'Mama never told me' and Bobby's 'Got to get you back' were both purchased brand new. I had to order 'Mama' because it had only just been released and did not make the charts first off, if I remember. The record shop kindly obliged. Atlantic had to 're-release' it again I think, and then it hit the charts. Of course, I did take my copy down to my local club where my DJ buddy played it twice that night as a new spin. It was a refreshing single with all the shoobie's!! I have the 'Disco Trek remix version on Atlantic too.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1225
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.162.127.172
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 2:38 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Carl,
Waddya doing up so late, mate??

BTW, the Sons of Robin Stone were first produced by Hurtt and Sigler and were named by them.
You knew that though!
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Carl Dixon (carl_dixon)
4-Laureate
Username: carl_dixon

Post Number: 71
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.153.219.170
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 2:40 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am on the overnight shift! Going home in about half an hour.

The Sons.... still a good story how they got their name. What was the film called?
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
2-Debutant
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 25
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 2:42 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carl,
That Disco trek issue caught me off guard,
I was pleasantly surprised. Thank you
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1227
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.162.127.172
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 2:42 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Love Machine
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Gil (gil)
4-Laureate
Username: gil

Post Number: 87
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 192.44.136.113
Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 5:32 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Youse guys dont know from late.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1243
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.25.216
Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 3:54 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil,

Do you have the Creme de la creme and You better believe it cd,s?

If not, I have copies for you.
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Caleb (caleb7)
2-Debutant
Username: caleb7

Post Number: 15
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 206.149.212.52
Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 11:36 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Phil,excellent post!!Thanks for the inside information on that Persauders classic.Have you kept in touch with Tommy since that happening bash?Any projects on the horizon musically for him?How about yourself?Have you been focusing more on gospel oriented projects now?Thanks again,Caleb
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Carl Dixon (carl_dixon)
4-Laureate
Username: carl_dixon

Post Number: 77
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.153.219.170
Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 12:27 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I must say the 'Creme de la creme' album is a nice compilation of Philly smooth grooves. For me, some of the tracks I was not familiar with before, but like are:

First Choice/I got a feeling - nice arrangement and harmonies.

The True Reflection/That's where I'm coming from - has that nice 1973/74 Philly sound, with a simpliar drum beat. The opening has the 'Look me up' drum opener too!

Clyde Brown/You call me back - When I first heard this in the seventies, I must admit, it was not one of my favourites. However, this album made me listen again and the lyrics hit me. How well written and thought out. This sunday my vinyl copy will be played at a gig I am doing, celebrating the Philly sound and how important it still is. Phil Hurtt - this is a great track!

First Choice/Yes,maybe no - A very jolly track written by those old chesnuts 'The Formations' (well two of them...)A nice arrangment from Bobby and I still keep on playing the beginning to understand the guitar slide/strings/vibes bit.

Sons of Robin Stone/Got to get you back - always been one of my favs. Great production, great voices, great hook, great musicianship. It was a mad rush to the dance floor in 74. The bar was empty....

Aristocrats/Let's stay together - Great harmonies and vocal arrangement. Again, has that early 70's feel, but the vocal makes the track special.

Dianne Steinberg/One more time - very nice, slow, sexy and late night listening.

Anglo Saxon Brown/Gonna make you mine � slick�some nice guitar coming up to 5mins in. Is that you or Norman Harris, Bobby?

Track 16 has a mistake on the credits for Thom Bell saying �L Bell/L Creed�. Apart from the excellent million sellers on the album, this is a great showcase for some of those tunes that never saw the light of day when released, well, from my perspective anyway.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1266
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.57.185
Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 12:36 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Carl,
I'll have to listen again but I think it was Norman, but I'll check.
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Caleb (caleb7)
2-Debutant
Username: caleb7

Post Number: 17
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 206.149.212.78
Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 12:43 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carl,what's the name of the tune that credits L Bell and L Creed as writers?
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Carl Dixon (carl_dixon)
4-Laureate
Username: carl_dixon

Post Number: 79
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.153.219.170
Posted on Friday, August 13, 2004 - 12:51 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Caleb - Spinners/You're all I need in life says 'L Bell/L Creed'. I assume it should be Thom bell because of his writing partnership with Linda, but I guess I could be wrong.....
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
2-Debutant
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 26
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 2:19 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Carl,
Thank you. The song "you called back" was actually written for Jimmy ruffin. He was assigned
to the "young Professionals" prod.team
at Atlantic records.
Unfortunately, Mr.Ruffin was extremely Un-cooperative in the studio.
Subsequently, he was sent back to detroit with this departing quote from Lebaron taylor," your torn contract will be back in Detroit before you will".
Tony and i actually ran into David Ruffin in
L.A. about a year later. He heard the song and
thought it would have been a great song for Jimmy.
He was shocked to hear that it was written for his brother, but somehow he was not surprised by
Jimmy"s attitude.
The Diane Steinberg sessions were nothing but
great Fun!! A tremendous talent and a beautiful lady.
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Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (weldon)
5-Doyen
Username: weldon

Post Number: 249
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.80.162.3
Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 3:28 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Phil how is Ann or do you know how to get in touch with her? hope all is well,
Weldon
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
2-Debutant
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 28
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 8:17 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey weldon,
Yes, Ann Is Doing well,hit my email and
i'll give you her #.
ph1factor@comcast.net Phil
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Vonnie (vonnie)
5-Doyen
Username: vonnie

Post Number: 265
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 149.174.164.84
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 8:42 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil, what a great Jimmy Ruffin story. Please keep posting your wonderful rememberances. We enjoy hearing about those wonderful PIR days.
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
2-Debutant
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 29
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 11:40 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Vonnie,
I almost missed your post. Thank you much, you are too kind.(smile)
Yesterday, i was looking at the pictures from
Tommy's party, you looked great. If i can
figure it out how to, i'll post a few. luv ya!
Phil
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1325
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.18.121
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 12:02 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil Diane Steinberg e mailed me several months ago and she is doing great.
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
2-Debutant
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 30
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 12:10 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobby,
Fantastic ,i sure would like to get in touch with her, maybe you can give me the info when we "DO LUNCH " this week. ( I can't believe i said that "DO LUNCH"?)OOOOOHH!
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1327
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.236.18.121
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 12:37 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow Phil, how "nouveau" of you, my friend.
Can we also have a "tete a' tete and a gastronomic laiason??
Can you just imagine cats like Kenny and Leon saying "lets do lunch'??

Maybe Lebaron, definitely not Bunny!!!
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johneflat (johneflat)
4-Laureate
Username: johneflat

Post Number: 124
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 64.12.116.138
Posted on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 12:53 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Hurtt, it is indeed a pleasure to meet the co-writer of my all-time favorite song, "I'LL BE AROUND!" Where else but SDF could this happen???
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 31
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 12:31 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Johneflat,
Thank you for the kind words.
Indeed , SDF is a great place to meet and share our Varied experiences.
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Nosey (nosey)
5-Doyen
Username: nosey

Post Number: 229
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.153.113.238
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 12:59 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Hurtt as a Philadelphian, I would like to see some form of discussion group be created for us to come together and talk/learn about the music we loved so much. My daugher asked me just last night what was the PIR sound. I couldn't answer that question. We both recognize the O'Jay's, Stylistic, Delfonic songs when we hear them but I could not give her a definitive answer. Would you and Bobby, Carl Helm, Weldon be up to creating such a group maybe on a once a month basis?
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 32
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 2:37 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Nosey,
What a great idea, if we don't preserve our history, it WILL be re-written, and the truth will be "written out". When ever the opportunity presents it's self,we should tell the children/youth of their musical heritage.
Let's talk it up. I'll speak to the guy's .
Phil
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1348
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.61.188
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 4:41 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nosey,
I have wanted to do that for the longest, so lets put the chapter together soon!
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 33
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 5:22 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Bobby,
Let's do it.
Hope we're still on for tomorrow.
I'll give you a call later this evening.
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1353
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.61.188
Posted on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 5:37 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Phil!!
Ive been up for two days and nights due to the new PBS show rehearsals and taping, so right now Im going to sleep, as I have recently gotten back home.

Tomorrow is on.
We'll touch base later for a time, sometime in mid afternoon, I hope.


BTW, more than likely , Juice of SDF who also was with us will post all the details of the show as I am just "knackered"(English for very tired)
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Richard Felstead (felstead2001)
4-Laureate
Username: felstead2001

Post Number: 101
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 128.40.91.183
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 7:26 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

:-)))) @ Bobby. Your english is just perfect.

Derived from the cockney rhyming slang to be "Cream Crackered" ie: Knackered or tired.

Cream crackers are dry biscuits that we have with cheese etc over here.

Anyway, I have a question for Phill, if I may.

I know you don't like the term disco Bobby so I'll call it dance music, but can Phill shed any info on the classy dance cut Giving It Back from the late 70's.

I would just "lose" myself on the dancefloor whenever the dj's would play that. The strings and the arrangement are "to die for".

Unlike many tracks dance tracks from that era,that have dated quite badly, Giving It Back still sounds so good.

Was that intentional ?. Was it a concious thing to write a dance track that would last and still sound good some 26 years on?.

Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks.


Rich.
www.solarradio.com
The Home Of Soul
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1458
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.163.49.189
Posted on Saturday, August 28, 2004 - 11:18 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Richard F,

Thanks for your affirmation of my expertise in English slang.

I do, however have a problem with the Mandarin and Cantonese dialects of Chinese!

BTW.. I'm giving you carte blance on the use of the term "Disco"
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Richard Felstead (felstead2001)
4-Laureate
Username: felstead2001

Post Number: 102
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 128.40.91.183
Posted on Sunday, August 29, 2004 - 6:30 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why thankyou Bobby :-)))

I was 15 yrs old when Giving It Back was released,back in 1978, and was my first introduction to the class of Phil's records.

Since then of course,It's been fun to discover the other body of work he's been involved with, but Giving It Back remains very special to me.

Who played sax on the track, as it was a great solo ?

I have it on a limited 12" and there's no info at all. I've never seen the album this single was lifted from, so I assume it must be quite rare.

Can anyone please help ?. Thanks.
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the crazy dutchman (andreas)
4-Laureate
Username: andreas

Post Number: 91
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 212.142.33.101
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 12:57 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Richard,

Nice to see you on the other side, hehe. Phil Hurtt's '12" Giving It Back is taken from his LP with the same name. It is a great debut effort with many songs that still sound fresh today. I'm positive that Dean Johnson or Soul Brothers/Crazy Beat are able to track down a copy for you. Happy hunting!

Best,
Andreas Hellingh
www.thesoulofamsterdam.com

Phil Hurtt 'Giving it Back' [Fantasy Records cat no 9552] LP USA 1978
Phil Hurtt - Giving It Back LP

Hey Phil!

I'm glad to hear that you are doing well. Many thanks for sharing your music and wonderful memories. Bless ya!!
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Richard Felstead (felstead2001)
4-Laureate
Username: felstead2001

Post Number: 104
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 128.40.91.183
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 4:36 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Andreas,
Thanks for your post my friend, I have never seen the album cover. At least I know what it looks like now.

I shall try the places you suggest.

Lokking forward to hearing from Phil as and when he can get the chance to reply.
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dvdmike (dvdmike)
5-Doyen
Username: dvdmike

Post Number: 326
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 65.208.234.85
Posted on Monday, August 30, 2004 - 8:09 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who was the fine sista on the LP cover?
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 34
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Wednesday, September 01, 2004 - 1:49 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Richard,
Sorry it's taken me so long to respond, i've been dealing with a family emergency. Thank you for the kind words re: "Giving it back".
That sax solo was none other than "the Master" Zack Zachery. Believe it or not, they are selling
that lp and my PR kit (with photo) on ebay.

DVDmike, That "FINE SISTA" on the cover was a model, Her Name is Pamela Washington.
The answer to your next question is.......no.(smile)

Hello Andreas,
Good to hear from so many good people who love
the music that so many have poured their hearts and souls into. I remember recording my first record at 15. I was Greatly influenecd by many of the artist of that time.your comments took me "way back" to the Flamingos, the Moonglows ,
the Dells and more. Now there's a young man complimenting me on my work. WOW!
Thank you my Friend, that meant a lot to me.
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Nosey (nosey)
5-Doyen
Username: nosey

Post Number: 255
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 66.153.113.238
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 1:32 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Phil, it's Nosey here. I believe the forumers believe in giving people their flowers while they yet live. I remember many things by what was "out" at that time. The PIR music is the soundtrack of my life and THANK YOU for help making those years the bomb! (The streets & clubs don't owe me nuttin!)

Still waiting to hear about a Philly gathering of the PIR devotees. I know a couple of non Soulful Detroit folks who would be interested in attending.
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Richard Felstead (felstead2001)
4-Laureate
Username: felstead2001

Post Number: 109
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 128.40.91.183
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 7:52 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Phil, thanks for taking the time to post, with the info regarding "Giving It Back".
As I mentioned before, that was my first introduction to your music.

It still gets played today along with other tracks from your huge body of work.

Much respect.

Rich.
www.solarradio.com
The Home Of Soul
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Carl Dixon (carl_dixon)
4-Laureate
Username: carl_dixon

Post Number: 98
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 82.44.203.80
Posted on Saturday, September 04, 2004 - 5:20 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard - I bought the single too, when it came out in the seventies. I played it at a gig I did last Sunday. Seemed strange to play it in a north London pub almost 25 years since it was released. Still a good record and has that quality missing off so much of todays productions.
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mel(andthensome) (mel)
6-Zenith
Username: mel

Post Number: 537
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.42.211.234
Posted on Sunday, September 05, 2004 - 6:12 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sir
I am also a big collector of your great work.
I have about 15 or so Loma white Demo's

Sat-is-fied.........
bought this about 1972 with other tracks.

Have a lot that you are featured with
be it all 60's as I am a 6T's collector.


just like to say
I am grateful to yourself plus others
for the great vibes.........

regards
mel
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 37
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 11:50 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



I just found photos from Tommy's party',thought
you might enjoy.
Babbit,Myself,Bobby & Vonnie
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 40
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 1:34 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Another party photo.
Weldon,Tommy,Louise(my wife)& Larry Gold.
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Weldon A. Mc Dougal III (weldon)
5-Doyen
Username: weldon

Post Number: 313
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.80.162.3
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 3:31 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Phill I don't remember takeing this photo,
(Smile)
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Robb_K (robb_k)
6-Zenith
Username: robb_k

Post Number: 516
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 217.232.151.178
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 7:26 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome, Phill! It's always great to have people on SD who can give us first-hand accounts of what happened in the day! Hope you'll be #round here permanently!
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Kdubya (paladin)
5-Doyen
Username: paladin

Post Number: 261
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 206.185.64.23
Posted on Wednesday, September 08, 2004 - 11:35 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Hurtt in additon to all those other gems thank you for The Chi-lites......."My First Mistake". They had a new lead singer and believe me you got the best out of his voice and you were able to calm Marshall too.....in another thread Bobby Eli remarked that when the Temptations collaborated with Mr. Bell and company that it was too much philly and not enough of the traditional Tempt sound,,,,,,,well that didn't happen with the song you did for the Chilites....I probably play that song about once a month....the intro....the vocals and the harmonies ....touched by Philly yes, but they maintained their Chi town flava....great song. Thanks from the Windy City.....

Kdubya
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 42
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 2:56 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Kdubya,
Thanks for the kind words.
Working with the chi-lites on the "Fantastic" Lp
was fun,fun and more fun. the Guys were great, they were excited to be working with the cats in philly. That new lead singer was David Scott aka "Smokey". The lead singer on "my first mistake was Robert Lester aka "squirrel".
I actually sang backup vocals with them on the lp. I called stevie while he was in town, and he was kind enough to play harmonica on "If t had a girl. A lot of artist came to philly to try to capture a bit of the magic of the time, but you are absolutley right,the music and the prodution should compliment and support the artist. Not the reverse. Very observant of you.
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Kdubya (paladin)
5-Doyen
Username: paladin

Post Number: 264
Registered: 5-2004
Posted From: 206.185.64.23
Posted on Thursday, September 09, 2004 - 4:22 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the reponse,guess you could tell that I'm real old school huh, thats what you get from trying to sing under the streetlamps and breezeways in the Windy City.....I play the LP......and its funny because of all of our many discussions about the various groups here on the forum, this is one album that no one had mentioned...and since you are here.... well...just thought I'd drop you a little note about one of my favorite cuts......peace..thanks for the photo shot

Kdubya
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 49
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 2:10 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


GUESS WHO???
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1598
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.162.127.40
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 2:15 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow Phil...what a surprise!!!
When were we at La Salle???
Wheres my ginko??
When did WHAT start??
Eh????$%^&*
That dude in the middle looks as if he just had a visit from "Jheri"!!
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1599
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 68.162.127.40
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 2:18 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now, whosoever guesses correctly really deserves a gold medal, eh?
Why am I saying "eh", Im not from Canada. eh??
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 50
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 2:23 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



One more clue,June 11th 1977.look over al's right
shoulder. (WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE)
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2300
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 2:52 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Phil,

I agree 1000% with Kdub. My First Mistake was one great jam. That was some serious vamping the brother was doing. Was that Danny Johnson??? Either way, that was one great jam, especially when the tempo kicked it up several notches. That is definitely a New York Club Classic & Larry Levan used to KILL that jam!!!

(Message edited by juicefree20 on September 10, 2004)
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 51
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 10:10 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Juice,
Thank you much. The brother vamping was Robert Lester,aka "Squirrel". Sax on the vamp Zack Zachery,
Arranged by Richie Rome. A great time was had by all. Thanks my brother.
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David Meikle (david_meikle)
5-Doyen
Username: david_meikle

Post Number: 381
Registered: 3-2004
Posted From: 81.130.211.124
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 10:40 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil

Many thanks for the images. You look in great shape in the one with Babbitt/Eli/Vonnie.

David
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 53
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 11:22 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Thanks David,
Here's one of Tommy&I, this may be the only picture we have ever taken together. Thank GOD "we're still Around". (smile)
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Eli (phillysoulman)
6-Zenith
Username: phillysoulman

Post Number: 1600
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 70.16.142.171
Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 12:30 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow Fossil, youre destroying me.
Who's wedding was it? I think that Al's reception was at Merion Caterers.
Maybe Im wrong.
La Salle?Hmmmmmm!!!!!
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 55
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 4:20 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Hey Bobby,
Maybe this will help.
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Juicefree20 (juicefree20)
6-Zenith
Username: juicefree20

Post Number: 2311
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 24.46.184.162
Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 7:09 am: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Phil,

I gotta tell you that Squirrel sounded a lot like what Jimmy Williams was doing with Double Exposure. That sounded like a run that Jimmy might have done on 10 Percent, or, My Love Is Free. So, who inspired who, if anyone??
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phil hurtt (phillyfossil)
3-Pundit
Username: phillyfossil

Post Number: 56
Registered: 8-2004
Posted From: 68.37.87.187
Posted on Saturday, September 11, 2004 - 1:26 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Juice,
We always cut tracks that could stand alone as an instrumental, i guess that's a part of the philly thing. Once we got to the vamp and Zack began to riff on the sax, i laid down a reference vocal for the guys. Squirrel was the one who really picked up on it. He really got into it.
Man, i loved Double Exposure. they were kinda the
young kids on the block,and yea Jimmy can blow.
Norman did a great job with them.
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mike s (mike_s)
4-Laureate
Username: mike_s

Post Number: 168
Registered: 4-2004
Posted From: 195.93.33.7
Posted on Thursday, September 23, 2004 - 8:46 pm: ��Edit PostDelete Post���Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phil
dug out South Shore Commission album today. Some great jams on there including Free Man...and Handle with Care (which you co wrote with producer Bunny Sigler. Some tremendous guitar plucking on that one, was it our Mr E or Norman??

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