By Patrick (68.74.13.188) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 06:02 pm:

Does anyone know of any great sessions that were recorded, but are now lost??????? Who knows, maybe someone has a tape in their attic or basement.......
This isn't really about soul, or Motown, but the Who. They did an amazing cover of Leaving Here and it was lost shortly after. In 1996, A record collector found the tape in a agrage sale for a buck. The same happened with their BBC sessions.

So, anyone into record archaeology???????

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 06:17 pm:

I was told by a Tilmon that the "Tilmon Brothers" recorded an LP at Hitsville USA, before they became the Detroit Emeralds.

He said they were led to believe Motown was going to release the gospel LP. But, Motown really wanted them to record R&B. And it was something about the contract that they couldn't agree on. He said more than likely Motown threw away the LP.

I was wondering, if Hitsville didn't want the gospel recording, then why would they go through the trouble of having it recorded, especially before the conract was finalized.

Any thoughts on that?

By Sis (68.42.209.170) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 06:18 pm:

*contract.

By Hey hey (68.74.13.188) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 06:19 pm:

They probably wanted to see how good the "Tilmon Brothers" were in the studio, then they could have been molded into something else like many of the other artists there.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.8) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 06:35 pm:

I believe that's the purpose of auditions, which don't necessitate recording a whole album...

By dvdmike (12.84.106.120) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 08:37 pm:

Billy Jackson produced Peaches & Herb at Hitsville sometime in 1966 for Date Records. But you'll have to ask Mr. Jackson for details.

By dvdmike (12.84.106.120) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 08:38 pm:

It might have been more like 1967 or 1968

By John Lester (62.49.61.57) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 03:31 pm:

The Velvelettes recorded Come See About Me but it's nowhere to be found!

BOO HOO!

Possibly also "When The Lovelight....."

By Scratcher (65.132.76.211) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 03:46 pm:

Speaking of lost Motown sessions what happened to all those tracks the Parliarment cut at Hitsvilles that were never released.

By John Lester (62.49.61.57) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 03:53 pm:

When did that happen?

By Scratcher (65.132.76.211) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 04:19 pm:

John, Parliarment was with Motown for nearly five years and recorded many tracks that were never released. Pretty common knowledge. Everybody thought when they exploded in the '70s the tracks would appear to capitalize on their success but they never did.

By John Lester (81.132.29.168) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 05:08 pm:

What name did they record under and between which years?

Did they record what they did at Histville?

By motown_david (152.163.188.68) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 05:50 pm:

I know Martha recorded in German as she once sang the songs to me backstage after a show. Somewhere there exists in the Motown vaults a German language version of "Dancing In The Street" and also its b side "Die Welt Ist Grossen Liebe." She even told me that a Berlitz teacher came in and taught her the songs phonetically in the studio in Detroit. I keep telling myself that one day.......
Sigh!
David.

By Scratcher (65.132.77.125) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 06:30 pm:

John, they recorded as Parliarment. I'm not sure where the tracks were cut. I've never heard any thing. George Clinton use to talk about this all the time in interviews. Raynoma Singleton signed them out of Motown's then New York office. As for a time frame...roughly from 1962 to 1966, prior to Revilot. The only thing to surface from Clinton's time at Motown is the odd songwriting credit, usually a B-side or album cut.

By Greg C. (209.71.79.179) on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 11:34 pm:

I'd like to hear the tracks JJ Barnes recorded for Motown. I believe one track finally was released on the Cellarful of Motown CD last year. He did a whole album's worth of material that is deep in the can somewhere and never saw the light of day. Motown politics...

I'd also like to hear Blinky's album(s) which were never released. Anyone remember "I Wouldn't Change The Man He Is" by her? That was one hot song... I understand she recorded at least two album's worth of material.

By John Lester (213.123.149.47) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 12:50 am:

Scatcher........maybe Parliament recorded in New York but not at Hitsville in Detroit...you might try and get to find out some titles that can be investigated. We already know some titles where George was gven a writer credit but would that mean that he also recorded them?

Greg C.....Clay McMurray talked about the tracks he put togther for Blinky on this very site. You might like to do a search.

By StingBeeLee (155.139.50.14) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 10:26 am:

According to George Clinton and from research, the Parliament did record at Motown in Detroit, but the records were never released. I have read this in many stories about the history of Paliament/Funkadelic. Hopefully perhaps someone at Motown during that time can shed some light on this, if it's true or not.

By Scratcher (65.132.78.119) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 11:10 am:

I'm beginning to think Parliarment's recording at Motown was a figment of George Clinton's imagination and not fact. Motown signed Clinton to a songwriting contract but there is no proof the group was signed to the label. When Clinton use to state the group recorded many tracks for Motown he was probably referring to demo tracks. None have ever been uncovered or even named by Clinton.

The story took life because Clinton clearly stated the group was signed to Motown in '70s and '80s interviews. In one, he gave the years, months and days of the "sentence." If any tracks were produced they were either destroyed, lost, or taped over cause they have never surfaced.

I posed the question because I thought someone could shed some new light on the subject.

By HW (68.37.221.153) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 03:36 pm:

'The Parliaments' were signed to Golden World and recorded sessions in Detroit. They issued one single, "Heart Trouble" b/w "That Was My Girl," in 1965. There are a couple of outtakes as well as a George Clinton-sung demo or two. Not sure which if the Funks were moonlighting on those sessions, but we do know some of them played on the Parliaments' later hit, "(I Wanna) Testify," issued on Revilot.

During the Grammy weekend festivities the Funks ran into George and it was a wonderful moment.

By Ritchie (62.254.0.10) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 04:08 pm:

Parliaments 45s:

Golden World 46
PARLIAMENTS
THAT WAS MY GIRL
HEART TROUBLE

Revilot 207
PARLIAMENTS
(I WANNA) TESTIFY
I CAN FEEL THE ICE MELTING

Revilot 211
PARLIAMENTS
ALL YOUR GOODIES ARE GONE
DON'T BE SORE AT ME

Revilot 214
PARLIAMENTS
LITTLE MAN
THE GOOSE (THAT LAID THE GOLDEN EGG)

Revilot 217
PARLIAMENTS
LOOK WHAT I ALMOST MISSED
WHAT YOU BEEN GROWING

Revilot 223
PARLIAMENTS
GOOD OLD MUSIC
TIME

Revilot 228
PARLIAMENTS
A NEW DAY BEGINS
I'LL WAIT

By Scratcher (65.132.78.222) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 07:19 pm:

I forgot but George Clinton states Parliarment signed with Motown as recently as the book: George Clinton and P-Funk an Oral History (1998), edited by Dave Marsh. In the interview format book Clinton says he signed with Motown as a songwriter in 1962 and with his group Parliarment in 1964. Nothing was ever released.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 08:37 pm:

Ritchie - During those releases is when I was a Parliaments fan. I'm looking at my 45 of "Look at What I Almost Missed." Now, I have to find my "I Wanna Testify."

By John Lester (213.123.121.110) on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 02:35 am:

Scratcher.......It's a question that I would like to think is worth pursuing. Somehow we need to pin George down and get him to be more specific. Anyone able to ask him directly?

The only info most of us know for certain is what Ritchie listed in his listing above in this thread.

By Scratcher (65.132.79.3) on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 12:03 pm:

John, the records released on Parliarment is not the issue. Complete discographies of Parliarment have been around for years. They recorded prior to Golden World, and as early as the '50s ("Poor Willie"). It's the unreleased Motown tracks that mystifies Parliarment fans. Clinton has said many times that Parliarment recorded a lot tracks during their Motown stint that were never released. He's been saying it for years. Maybe Dave Marsh can contact Clinton and get the story.

By HW (12.110.192.128) on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 03:56 pm:

GC may be confusing Motown with Golden World since many of the same musicians played on both labels' sessions, and Berry Gordy as we all know purchased the GW masters. Clinton did record some demos for Jobete and that may also be what he is talking about.

By Scratcher (65.132.76.245) on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 04:32 pm:

HW read the previously mentioned book edited by Dave Marsh where GC again says that Parliarment signed with Motown in 1964. It's out of print but most public libraries should have a copy.

You're correct in that he mixes GW with Motown, he calls "Heart Trouble" a Motown song because the Funk Brothers played on it. I too believe he's talking about demos; he also says the Funk Brothers played on most of GW sessions.

Nobody has pinned Clinton down on what Parliarment recorded at Motown since he first made the public aware of it more than 30 years ago. But, then again, I don't think anyone has pressed him for the info. He says it...and it goes unchallenged.

By HW (12.110.192.128) on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 06:01 pm:

You said it in the second graph - he confuses Motown with Golden World. Parliaments signed with GW in 1964, not Motown. There are no Motown masters by the Parliaments, only Golden World masters owned by Motown/Universal Music.

By HW (12.110.192.128) on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 06:01 pm:

I guess this means I am challenging his statement.

By RD (63.188.32.168) on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 07:02 pm:

I heard about Parliarment being on Motown too so I did some research and came up with this from a Parliarment/Funkadelic site.

1964
Parliaments
I'll Bet You
I'm Into Something, I Can't Shake It Loose
I Misjudged You

Notes: These were demos recorded for Motown that weren't released, but were all later recut. "I Misjudged You" came the closest to being cut, with a release number set for the VIP label, but it never came out.

http://www.duke.edu/~tmc/motherpage/pfaq.html

By HW (68.37.221.153) on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 07:24 am:

It's likely these are demos for Jobete Publishing.

By John lester (62.49.61.57) on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 08:12 am:

anyone got that goldmine interview to hand....

By R&B (138.238.41.143) on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 08:41 am:

RICK JAMES HAD A GROUP THAT I THINK RECORDED SOMETHING AT HITSVILLE,YEARS BEFORE HE WAS FAMOUS.

By Scratcher (65.132.77.179) on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 10:50 am:

James recorded as a member of the Mynah Birds at Motown.

John, if you can locate any George Clinton interview you'll find his assertion that Parliament was signed to Motown. He's always the one who brings it up, not the writer/interviewer.

By John Lester (62.49.61.57) on Friday, February 28, 2003 - 03:07 pm:

Scratcher........my filing is a bit haphazard. However, I will look.

I am convinced of the history tht you relate. It's just hard to find more detailed information.

By Jerry Hipkiss (195.188.41.154) on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 07:43 am:

Only trouble is, recent history tends to show that if any of us says categorically that he did/did not lay down anything for Motown, it's likely to turn round and bite; e.g. Patrice Holloway, J.J. Barnes and others that the average soul fan never knew recorded for them. On balance, though, I think I agree with the idea that they were Golden World tracks. Standing by to be proved embarrasingly wrong..........

By J5Collector (66.188.85.73) on Monday, March 31, 2003 - 08:01 pm:

I've read that in the mid-1970s Stevie Wonder wrote and produced some songs with the Jackson 5 that have never been released. There was supposed to have been a whole J5 album produced by Stevie. One song, intended to be a single, was called "Buttercup."

By Sly fan (63.207.60.81) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 01:27 am:

J5collector: WOW!! I wish I could just hear it!! J5 and Stevie??!!

George Clinton still talks about Motown to this day...I only wish they would put The Parliaments material out. That would be something!!

R&B: Rick James did record with a group (the name escapes me but I have the album) its on Micheal Viner's PRIDE records. Rick also was a writing partner with Neil Young in the early days.

By FrankM (81.152.61.41) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 02:56 am:

Was it The Mynah birds?

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 04:14 pm:

That Rick James band were on Lion ( not Pride, but
verrry close) - they were Great White Cane.
A pretty duff album from what I vaguely remember

By Michael/Cleoharvey (160.79.83.208) on Tuesday, April 01, 2003 - 04:23 pm:

Mentioning Stevie Wonder, legend has it that there are 5 cuts that Stevie produced on Barbara Streisand that have never been heard. She fell in love with his songwriting after doing All In Love Is Fair on her the Way We Were album and started to work with him on an album. After a while the two Taureans did not see eye to eye and the project was shelved.

Also, there are supposed to a couple of cuts that Stevie did on the Supremes around the "Bad Weather" period for an album. But Jean Terrell left the Supremes not long after and the cuts were shelved. Maybe someone knows whether this is true. Bad Weather was such a great cut it would be wonderful to hear any other songs Stevie might have produced on the Supremes.

By LG Nilsson (212.247.9.242) on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 06:58 am:

I met Stevie Wonder a couple of times in the beginning of the 80's. He was talking about his then new label "Wondirection". Gary Byrd was released as a 12-inch single "The Crown" on that label (also scheduled for release as a 45 on Tamla 54324 but never released).

I also met his backup singers "Wonderlove", I have no member names at hand now. They were recording material for an album on Wondirection and were excited about that. Stevie was the writer and producer. That album was never released. Would be nice to hear today!

Lars

By John Perrone (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 02:03 am:

From what I understand, Stevie Wonder also wrote and produced the Supremes' (JML) "Soft Days".
John

By Davie Gordon (193.122.21.42) on Thursday, April 03, 2003 - 12:09 pm:

Lars,

Re Wonderlove - I seem to remember that one one of them was Gloria Barley. Linda Lawrence was
a member for a time. The third member was Lani
Hall who'd been in Sergio Mendes and Brasil'66
and was, I think, Mrs. Herb Alpert.

Don't take any of this as gospel - I'm not a huge
Stevie Wonder fan. As far as I can see he started
going downhill the more the rock press told him
he was "a genius"

By WaltBaby (205.188.209.109) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 04:00 pm:

Maybe you meant Lani Groves. Also Angela Winbush was a member of Wonderlove before joining with Rene Moore as Rene & Angela.

By LUKE (68.42.209.170) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 05:42 pm:

HW - Marcus Belgraves informed me he cut three LP's for Motown never released, possibly Jobete in the 60's. Is there a way to check?

By John Lester (217.40.235.49) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 05:51 pm:

Were they cut at the Graystone rather than the studio at Hitsville USa

By Eli (64.12.97.7) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 06:58 pm:

It was Lani Groves . Deniece Williams as wel.

By RD (63.188.32.221) on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 07:12 pm:

Lynda Tucker's sister Sundray a.k.a. Cindy Scott sang with Wonderlove too. That's her on "Ordinary Pain" with Stevie.

By LUKE (68.42.209.170) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 03:09 pm:

John Lester - All of the sessions were done at the Graystone.

By Randy Russi (169.139.180.100) on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 03:33 pm:

Stevie Wonder also produced Martha Reeves, but
the company wouldn't release it. He said in
interviews how much he liked the stuff he did
with Martha and was disappointed it wasn't
released--around 72 or 73, I blieve.

You know after King Floyd hit on the Chimneyville
label (distributed by Atlantic/Atco) with "Groove
Me", Motown issued a whole LP on him, maybe on
the VIP label.

By Handsome (170.118.157.134) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 04:49 pm:

Greg C: I remember that song by Blinky. Great song! Her unreleased albums were M712-Sunny & Warm, and M770L-Softly. What a shame they weren't released. They would make a great Motown 2fer on CD! Hint Hint HW!

By 1Wicked (24.126.64.120) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 08:05 pm:

Wasn't Shirley Brewer (or Brewster) a member of Wonderlove at some point ??

By Vandelron (24.44.20.172) on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 11:55 pm:

Michael/Cleoharvey--didnt the Supremes do a whole album with Stevie-Promises Kept--that got shelved?JL--was Come See about me a possible single release for Velvelettes or album?

By John Lester (81.132.13.53) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 12:01 am:

Vandelron

It seems unlikely. I am led to believe that Cal's vocal was wiped from the tape when Diana recorded over it (boo hoo!!)

By MotownForever (152.163.252.68) on Wednesday, June 18, 2003 - 08:03 am:

Valderon:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I recall a post on the MBB where Harry Weinger stated that there was no track listing in the vaults for "Promises Kept."

There is, however, one other unreleased track that was recorded & produced by Stevie for the Supremes during the "Bad Weather" sessions entitled "Soft Days."