|By LG Nilsson (18.104.22.168) on Monday, March 03, 2003 - 05:25 pm:|
I have got a question I cannot answer. Can anyone here? Question is: What Motown/Tamla/Gordy/Soul/VIP single was the first to be released in STEREO?
... and what single was the last in MONO?
... and was it differences between US and UK issues?
|By David Meikle (22.214.171.124) on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 04:32 am:|
An interesting question Lars.
Let's hope we can get an answer.
|By Davie Gordon (126.96.36.199) on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 08:38 am:|
As far as I can remember the first stereo UK
single was the Jackson 5's "I Want You Back"
- the matrix numbers in the dead wax usually
had a number like YTMG724 - the "Y" denoting stereo.
|By John Lester (188.8.131.52) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 06:40 pm:|
It's a bit late here I know and my brain normally needs a good kicking at this hour but I dont recall "I Want You Back" in stereo at all.
Without checking, the first UK stereo 45 on TMG 715 was The Onion Song...the last mono 45 is not really an easy one to answer...Motown continually re-issued old tracks in mono..
|By Bob Olhsson (184.108.40.206) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 08:11 pm:|
The DJ copies were mono long after the "street" copies were stereo. There were also some DJ copies with mono on one side and a stereo version of the same song on the other.
|By John Lester (220.127.116.11) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 05:13 am:|
....and don't we know it.....I was sure that it was a ploy by Mr Gordy to make me spend ALL of my allowance on second copies.........and it worked!!!!!
|By Davie Gordon (18.104.22.168) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 03:18 pm:|
You could be right about "I Want You Back" - I no
longer have the single to check and my memory
might be playing tricks on me.
|By g-wiz (22.214.171.124) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 03:23 pm:|
i say it was shop around
my man smokie
|By Ritchie (126.96.36.199) on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 04:43 am:|
I don't think there was a stereo mix of Shop Around..?
|By dvdmike (188.8.131.52) on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 06:55 am:|
Reg Bartlette, author of "Just For The Record" would likely know. I'll e-mail him this weekend and ask him.
|By LG Nilsson (184.108.40.206) on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 08:06 am:|
I have just been in contact with Reg about this yesterday and will present what we have found out so far... I'll let you know in a couple of hours when I get home to my singles... for final check...
Lars (just now at heavy radio work)
|By dvdmike (220.127.116.11) on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 08:44 am:|
|By Edgar (18.104.22.168) on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 08:49 am:|
The first stereo single that I had (don't know if it was the first ever) was The Supremes and Temptations' "The Weight".
|By LG Nilsson (22.214.171.124) on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 02:42 pm:|
This was a hard one...
I have got some info from Reginald Bartlette but when I checked it out... it was not correct. I have to go back to him again and check. Maybe he was just looking at master numbers... What I did was actually listening to the singles. Mono!
Let's start with the Gordy label. Reg told me "Way Over There" by EDWIN STARR Gordy 7078 from 1968 was the first stereo release on Gordy. Maybe it was mixed in stereo and mastered in stereo but it was pressed and released in mono. I'll let you now after talking to Reg again.
The reason I didn't answer the question the first time was... I was lazy. I didn't have the time to check myself. Well now i'm back again to answer my own question! 1972 seem to be the magic year here...
Up to ERIC & THE VIKINGS 7116 everything seems to be mono. Also FESTIVALS Gordy 7120 is mono. But Gordy 7122 UNDISPUTED TRUTH is A-side mono B-side Stereo! ERIC & THE VIKINGS 7132 is a stereo release and everything after sounds like stereo. It looks like the Gordy label changed pressing plant around number 7120. If "Papa Was A Rolling Stone" Gordy 7121 by Temps was stereo on the 45 it must be the first one... I have not got the single release on that myself... so let me know.
I'll be back soon with the Soul label...
|By Edgar (126.96.36.199) on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 08:32 pm:|
You may find this interesting (from www.oldiesfun.com):
The topic of "first stereo single" is apparently open to debate... here are a few comments received from OldiesFun visitors about this:
Regarding the "first stereo" single factoid, I do believe it's NOT "Color Him Father" from the Winstons although that is certainly a wide stereo copy of that song. (Metromedia blue label). The very first non reissue stereo 45 to the best of my knowledge is "Goin' Away" by Jimmy Gilmer and the Fireballs. I purchased it in May of 1968. It's on Atco and was marked as "Stereo Compatible". The Winstons didn't chart until 1969. Others from that time period are "Get Together" by the Youngbloods (second time around in '69) and "In The Year 2525" by Zager & Evans. The only other 45's I recall in stereo prior to 1968 are promo issue only. One of the earliest is "Three Bells" by the Browns in 1959. Stereo itself came into mass production around 1958. Songs like "Don't Let Go" by Roy Hamilton, "Summertime, Summertime" by the Jamies and "Born Too Late" by the Poni Tails are a few of the early recordings. If you have a promo copies of these, hang onto them!$!$!$ In general pre-1960 stereo is tough to find. Bill Shannon.
In other board, someone mentioned James Brown's "Say It Loud" (1968), as the first stereo single he owned. My question is why should Motown (or Tamla/Motown) wait until the 70's to release stereo singles?
|By KevGo (188.8.131.52) on Friday, March 07, 2003 - 09:42 pm:|
The first Motown stereo single I purchased was Michael Jackson's "I Wanna Be Where You Are" (early 1972).
The Rascals' "A Beautiful Morning" was an Atlantic Stereo-Compatible single (1967).
Good question regarding Motown's switch to stereo singles. Maybe Mike McLean & company can chime in on this.
Kevin Goins - KevGo
|By Edgar (184.108.40.206) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 12:20 am:|
Kevin, I am sure, positive, certain, seguro, firme, cierto, afirmativo, that "The Weight" was stereo. It may not be the first, but by 1969 Motown had released at least that one.
|By LG Nilsson (220.127.116.11) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 05:49 am:|
I have looked for the first stereo issue on the Soul label. The first I found was Soul 35094 Gladys Knight & The Pips "Help Me Make It Through The Night" from March-72. All before that is mono in my collection, except a few stereo/mono single sided promo copies. But the commercial singles were all mono.
Back again with Motown soon...
|By LG Nilsson (18.104.22.168) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 07:16 am:|
well... I have to wait with Motown... somewhere between 1201 (mono) and 1206 (stereo)... so far... all release dates in May or later 1972.
First Tamla stereo single I found was Tamla 54222 Eddie Kendricks "If You Let Me" August-72. Marvin Gaye Tamla 54221 "You're The Man" is a mono release.
There are no stereo releases on the VIP label. The last single released on the label was the Eddie Kendricks produced group Posse on VIP 25069 (in mono) from February 1972
So the answer to the original question "What was the first Tamla-Motown stereo singe?" is....
Gladys Knight & The Pips "Help Me Make It Through The Night" from March-72 on Soul 35094.
... but still, I have to wait for some more info from Reg. It can be possible that some stereo pressings were produced on other Motown record plants a bit earlier... that I don't own.
|By John Lester (22.214.171.124) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 07:30 am:|
Am I missing something here.....The Onion Song was issued in the UK in stereo in October 1969
|By LG Nilsson (126.96.36.199) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 07:49 am:|
That was the second part of the question..."was it differences between US and UK issues?"
It certainly looks like that! I have just listened to the US releases so far. I don't have that many UK TMG singles myself.
|By John Lester (188.8.131.52) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 07:55 am:|
Clearly I was missing something............who's pinched me glasses..........lol
Surely you have a TMG 720 and 867.........!!
|By LG Nilsson (184.108.40.206) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 08:16 am:|
Nope! I have got Gordy 7090 & Motown 1242 instead! Same thing!
|By Ritchie (220.127.116.11) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 08:56 am:|
Very sneaky, John.... both unissued! :o)
|By Edgar (18.104.22.168) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 09:00 am:|
Lars, I will die affirming my "Weight" 45rpm was stereo, even if you ignore my "Latino claim", if you know what I mean... It WAS stereo!
|By John Lester (22.214.171.124) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 09:03 am:|
Ritchie...I bet Lars will have them..cos I do and it used to be a joke years ago that if Lars didn't have them, then they didn't exist!!
|By John Lester (126.96.36.199) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 09:05 am:|
Oooops, I didn't see that Lars......
Lars - I have a spare 867....I might even have a spare Love Fire on Syreeta too.....
|By Ritchie (188.8.131.52) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 09:23 am:|
(Sigh..) I should know by now - you can't bluff a bluffer :o)
|By Davie Gordon (184.108.40.206) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 11:00 am:|
First stereo singles of any genre ? - I've no idea
what the first one was but stereo singles were
being issued as far back as '59. They were in the
main stereo versions of songs that were already
on the Billboard Hot 100 - the Billboard charts of that time used to list both the mono and
stereo catalogue numbers. I might be wrong about
this but I believe the Falcons "You're So Fine"
was issued in stereo by Unart
|By Ritchie (220.127.116.11) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 11:33 am:|
British Decca's London-American label had a special (and very short-lived) series of stereo 45s "for export" in 1959. Only four titles were issued in the SL-4000 series: by Duane Eddy, Pat Boone, the Fleetwoods and Martin Denny. All were US recordings.
|By LG Nilsson (18.104.22.168) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 01:01 pm:|
Thanks for the offer, John. As I said before, I have already got the material and the Syreeta tracks I have got on albums... That's good enough for me. But if you have Hattie Littles on Gordy 7004 I'm listening... Would be included in some future Motown collection I hope...
Edgar, do you mean the US Motown single 1153 "The Weight" or some other release. I have been listening to US singles all day, (It,s been great, but my wife is wondering what's happening... "why don't you play CD's as normal people!") but around that time (1969) everything is mono. I have not got "The Weight" on single myself so we have to wait for confirmation by someone else here... the album track is of course stereo...
UK Motown was far ahead with stereo releases, so was "The Onion Song" the first there?
|By douglasm (22.214.171.124) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 02:34 pm:|
....ran across a reference to Dolton releasing a Fleetwoods song on a stereo single in the US in 1959.
Wasn't there a problem with "compatable" stereo, that is, if played on mono equipment it would loose its "stereo", or was that just a rumor?
|By Ritchie (126.96.36.199) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 02:44 pm:|
I think that's a question better answered by the experts, but briefly, stereo records could not be played on mono record players without damage to the grooves. (As I understand it, the mono stylus ploughed through the stereo record's groove, whereas a stereo stylus could move imperceptibly left-and-right to trace its path.) The problem was resolved with "compatible" stereo pressings - 45/45 angled groove rather than the previous cutting method - but in 1959 they were some years in the future.
|By Edgar (188.8.131.52) on Saturday, March 08, 2003 - 03:17 pm:|
Lars, at last!!! Yes, I mean US Motown single 1153 "The Weight". We only fabricated Panamanian singles here by that time, all the others were imports. "The Weight" was an import. I was 18 years old when I bought, I don't have it now, but I remember we had a similar argument in one Supremes board, when trying to find out which was the first Supremes single in stereo. It was indeed "The Weight", someone who had it, checked it and it was in stereo.
|By Bob Olhsson (184.108.40.206) on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 01:00 am:|
Our normal procedure for singles was to always come up with a mono mix that was taken as far as we could and then to create a stereo version based on the balance and track muting decisions that had been made for the mono version. I understood it was done this way because the most important stations for us were still mono. Frankly you also couldn't count on music directors or distributor promo people having both speakers hooked up in their office. Getting the best possible mix to everybody who could help a record was very important. Stereo never really folds down to mono without compromising one or the other version.
|By LG Nilsson (220.127.116.11) on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 03:09 am:|
Many thanks for your information on this subject. After checking hundreds of US singles I have found out that 1972 was the year Motown in the USA switched from mono to stereo. We also know that Motown in the UK used stereo releases years earlier. Is it possible that Motown USA released a few commercial stereo singles in the late 60's and then waited until 1972 to do a major switch? It doesn't make sense to me.
|By MEL&THEN SOME (18.104.22.168) on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 07:28 am:|
According to Paul Pellieters book on Tamla Motown and the various us Labels he has 'The Onion Song'down as the first Tamla Motown Stereo single,as John Lester mentioned.
But going on my previous record relating to old books for info etc,dont quote me. John Lesters and Lars word says it all for me.
|By LG Nilsson (22.214.171.124) on Sunday, March 09, 2003 - 03:51 pm:|
I just found out the answer to what single was the last in MONO!
It is not released yet of course! I am lookong forward to "A cellarful Of Motown Vol 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 etc" with lots of original single mono mixes.
... and I'm quite sure this is the first Tamla/Motown in mono: