By fayette (152.163.188.68) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 03:51 pm:

i always wondered what makes entertainers have it all then make wrong choices,how do they get to that point in life.is it the money,friends,fame,
ego,if you want to name an example feel free.
i'm a little nosey

By Ritchie (62.254.0.8) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 04:00 pm:

A few suggestions:

Bad management
Too many hangers-on and yes-men
Inadequate financial advice
Short-sighted "investments" - flashy cars and expensive gifts
Living just for today
Delusions of invincibility
Losing sight of one's original vision
Burning out, and going through the motions

By 1wicked (64.32.154.94) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 04:02 pm:

They feel that they have it all: money, "toys" & creature comforts, fame, all the women (or men) they could ever desire, "go-fers" to do their bidding.....just everything...EXCEPT someone to say NO ! You know....that one somebody who isn't afraid of missing the gravy train & will slap the taste out of your mouth when you start doing harm (physical, financial, emotional) to yourself.

By Scratcher (65.133.219.117) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 07:30 pm:

You guys put to much weight on the money and fame part. Most entertainers that make wrong choices would have made the same choices if they had never made a record or performed a gig.

Making records, however, and not getting paid may aggravate situations and make some extremely bitter causing them to resort to drugs and/or do stupid things that warrants jail time; but to say they go astray because they couldn't handle money and fame is off base.

The list of recording artists who have serve time in State or Federal prisons is a long one. But so is the list for almost any profession.

I know one guy that's been in prison more than 25 years. He was in a group that made a bunch of singles and an album; they had one minor hit. That he had been a recording artist had nothing to do with the heinous crime he committed.

James Brown served time in prison before he made one record and has served time after being annointed the "hardest working man in show business and Soul Brother #1."

Of the publicized cases there's Gene Chandler, Rick James, Major Lance, Ike Turner, Chuck Berry, Wilson Pickett, Chris Kenner, Sam Moore, Chico Debarge, Bobby Debarge, Lawrence Horn, Little Willie John, Johnny Paycheck and more that I either don't remember or never knew about.

I won't even mention the artists, songwriters, producers, etc. that most people are unaware of because their cases were not publicized. I don't profess to know them all myself...nowhere near. But I know some.

Criminals and felons come in all sizes, shapes, races, religious beliefs, professions, and economic and social backgrounds.

By Lucy (64.12.97.7) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 08:08 pm:

Getting caught up in all the hype,AND LOSING SIGHT OF WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT IN THEIR LIVES.

By Scratcher (65.133.219.117) on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 08:19 pm:

James Brown and Sam Moore served time in prison before becoming recording artists so there was no hype for them to be caught up in. Most recording artists' crimes have nothing to do with their recording/entertainer careers. An exception being David Ruffin who served time for a tax problem related to his show business income. Felons are felons, some just happen to make or have made records.

By TonyRussi (68.18.33.32) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 12:20 pm:

Being naive about the business and trusting business people to look out for their best interest seems to be a major problem especially for the female entertainers of the 60's.Also, letting husbands run things whether qualifiedor not.

By Scratcher (65.134.147.185) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 12:33 pm:

Fayette, correct me if I'm wrong, but you started this thread after you read Bobby Eli's account of a singer/writer he worked with who made some wrong choices unrelated to music and went to jail many times? I say this because of what you posted on the thread where Bobby Eli gave the account. This thread is not about making wrong choices as to contracts, management, etc., right, but wrong choices by singers/entertainers in regards to their behavior outside of music.

By Horse (159.53.238.243) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 01:04 pm:

Some People Just Don't Know How To Act..! Regardless. Like I said before.....In the words of Pacino's Scarface: "First Djou Get Day Money...Den Djou Get Day Power...!

By STUBASS (152.163.188.68) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 01:12 pm:

SCRATCHER: YOU DO MAKE A GOOD POINT...THAT A PERSONS BASIC PSYCHOLOGICAL MAKEUP BEGINS AT A VERY EARLY AGE...AND VALUES ARE ESTABLISHED THAT SHOULD CARRY THROUGH THE REMAINDER OF ONES LIFE!!!...THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN...HOWEVER...AND I HAVE SEEN THIS IN THE FIELD OF PROFESSIONAL ATHLETICS AS WELL...IS THE SOCIOLOGICAL PERSPECTIVE, AS RELATES TO HOW A PERSON DEALS WITH SUDDEN FAME...PROSPARITY...OR RECOGNITION!!!...A PERSON...OTHERWISE NOT INCLINED TO ENGAGE IN NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR...CAN BECOME INFLUENCED BY OTHERS IN SOCIETY AS TO HOW THEY SHOULD ACT...OFTEN IN THE "OTHERS" BEST INTEREST...AND NOT NECESSARILY IN THAT PERSONS BEST INTERST!!!...AN INDIVIDUAL UNPREPARED FOR SUDDEN RECOGNITION AND MONEY CAN SOMETIMES ATTRIBUTE TO THEMSELVES A FALSE SENSE OF IMPORTANCE AT THE URGING OF OTHERS...AND BEGIN TO TAKE TOO SERIOUSLY THEIR OWN SENSE OF SELF IMPORTANCE!!!...THAT IS WHY...IT IS IMPORTANT TO INSTILL IN PEOPLE...THE ABILITY TO BE HUMBLE IN VICTORY...AND DISPLAY DIGNITY IN DEFEAT!!!...STU

By Scratcher (65.134.147.185) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 01:40 pm:

True Stu, but if a person is a sociopath what do you do? Some recording artists/entertainers are sociopaths. There is no cure for the sociopath who three main traits are inflated ego, anti-social personality, and being unable to show remorse for their deeds. Lock a sociopath up for 20 years and they start committing crimes a month after their release.

To say a person goes off the deep in because they achieved fame is putting the horse before the cart. Doing something stupid when famous gets them more notoriety and the incidents became newspaper and tabloid items but to think they wouldn't have done so if they hadn't been famous is hard to swallow.

People are who they are regardless of their professions. A profession is just that, a profession, not a character trait.

Your last sentence relates mostly to pro athletes. Again, what about the pro athlete who's a sociopath? All sociopaths aren't violent or go to prison, some are extremly cunning con artists. To only pay the Ronettes $14,000.00 during their whole career and not feel any remorse about doing so leads me to believe that one who does such a deed is a sociopath.

Once sociologist define the term sociopath better and is better able to determine who is and who isn't they should be posted on websites just like sex offenders.

Participating in sports keep many out of prison who would be incarcerated for doing something stupid if not for sports. Some pro athletes make wrong choices but not because of sports and fame but because that's their makeup. If they had chose to become plumbers the same behavoir would have surfaced. What would Mike Tyson be doing if he wasn't boxing?

By Horse (159.53.238.243) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 01:47 pm:

Scratcher,

Being a musician or vocalist is not a profession. It's a passion. And being passionate about something can cause major problems when you begin believing that you have reach the point as an individual of being beyond standard morals.

By STUBASS (64.12.97.7) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 02:11 pm:

SCRATCHER AGAIN: IF IT WALKS LIKE A DUCK...LOOKS LIKE A DUCK...AND QUACKS LIKE A DUCK...WELL.....IT'S UNLIKELY THAT ANY TYPE OF SUCCESS WILL CHANGE THEIR BASIC PSYCHOLOGICAL MAKEUP...ONLY MAKE IT EASIER TO "GET A PASS" WHEN EXHIBITING THEIR NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR!!!...A QUICK "STUBASS" STORY BEFORE I GO...NOT TO BORE ANYONE...BUT IN HIGH SCHOOL...I GOT A LOT OF PASSES BECAUSE OF MY MUSICAL ABILITY!!!...ONE TIME...DURING A FIRE DRILL...A COUPLE OF MY BUDDIES AND MYSELF DECIDED TO HAVE A QUICK SMOKE!!!...MR. HOLMES...A NO NONSENSE GYM TEACHER BUSTED ME...AND BEGAN TO WALK ME TOWARD THE BUILDING AND RIGHT TO THE PRINCIPALS OFFICE!!!...IT WAS THE DAY BEFORE THE SCHOOLS SPRING CONCERT...WHERE I WAS A FEATURED PERFORMER!!!...BEFORE WE HIT THE BUILDING...WE WERE SURROUNDED BY AT LEAST 8-10 STUDENTS...WHO TOLD MR. HOLMES THAT I WAS BEING FEATURED TOMORROW IN THE CONCERT...AND THAT HE JUST COULD NOT DO ANYTHING THAT WOULD GET ME SUSPENDED!!!...TO MY UTTER AMAZEMENT...HE LET ME GO!!!...I'M SURE THAT JUST ABOUT ANY OTHER STUDENT WOULD HAVE "GONE DOWN"!!!...I ALSO HAD AN AGREEMENT WITH THE MUSIC TEACHER...TO GIVE ME CREDIT FOR "B" BAND...WHICH WAS A FIRST PERIOD CLASS WHERE I WAS SUPPOSED TO LEARN TROMBONE!!!...I DIDN'T GO TO CLASS 10 TIMES THE WHOLE SEMESTER...EITHER SLEEPING LATE BECAUSE I HAD A GIG THE NIGHT BEFORE...OR I'D BE ACROSS THE STREET IN THE COFFEE SHOP HAVING BREAKFAST!!!...WAS THIS THE RIGHT MESSAGE TO GIVE TO A 16 OR 17 YEAR OLD KID???...DEFINITLY NOT...BUT I PLAYED IT TO THE HILT!!!...FORTUNATLY...I REALIZED AT SOME POINT THAT I WAS NOT GOING TO GET THROUGH LIFE WITH AN ATTITUDE OF "LIVING ABOVE THE LAW"...BUT SOME DO CARRY THOSE KIND OF EXPERIENCES WITH THEM...AND THINK THAT SOCIETY IS PICKING ON THEM WHEN THEY ARE HELD UP TO THE STANDARDS OF THE REST OF SOCIETY!!!...FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH...STU

By TonyRussi (68.18.33.32) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 02:30 pm:

I'm sorry I guess I misunderstood the gist of the thread.Seems to me a person with self-destructive personality would have the same problems rich & famous or one of us regular Joes.

By fayette (152.163.188.68) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 03:23 pm:

scratcher you're wrong. i made that thread because
of present day happenings. there seems a lot of
celebrates on the news being accused of making
wrong decisions. alright

By Scratcher (65.132.76.211) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 03:36 pm:

Tony: you got it. And so did you Stu with your if it quacks like a duck analogy.

Fayette: Wrong decisions meaning getting into trouble with the law and being accused of things that might get you in trouble with the law. Where did I miss your point? I brought up examples of recording artists that made wrong choices in the past and some who are continuing to do so.

By fayette (152.163.188.68) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 03:42 pm:

scratcher if you scroll up you asked me if i
based my thread on what somebody else said.
and i just replied to the statement you said

By Scratcher (65.132.76.211) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 03:56 pm:

Ok Fayette, I thought you created the thread because you got the idea from the Bobby Eli/Terry Collins thread since you posted there. Collins made some wrong choices and I thought you were expanding on the theme.

I don't know Horse, I believe destructive people are destructive people no matter what their "passion," occupation or profession happens to be, or what fame or non fame they have achieved. A non destructive person won't do something stupid cause they felt they got beat or cheated, they would either resort to legal remedies or move on. Good people don't resort to "street justice."

By MEL&THEN SOME (195.219.7.87) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 03:57 pm:

Starting a thread on Bob Crewe from an item dated 1976.
mel.

By fayette (152.163.188.68) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 03:58 pm:

scratcher i didn't know who he is noway(collin)

By Scratcher (65.132.76.211) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 04:13 pm:

I didn't either Fayette. I somehow missed the whole Terry Collins' episode, but I'm interested in hearing his work now.

By Eli (151.197.37.147) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 05:45 pm:

In this day and age, fame is but a fleeting moment and if one is lucky enough to grab the golden ring, hold on to that sucker for dear life.
Ninety nine and 44/100 % of todays "artists" and their consumers need to get a life before life gets to them.
I heard a comment from one young woman who said
"I ain't gonna get wit' no n***a unless he got 22 inch rims!!"
Is that where we are heading?? Kinda scary isn't it.
As previously stated most of these "performers"
think that they are invincible and immune to the law.
In my family being book smart and having common sense were prerequisite.

Also the whole "bling bling " mentality makes me want to puke. Blecccchhhh!!!23$%^&*()_

Severalyears ago I saw a piece on MTV where raper Old Dirty Bastard had the camera folow him to the welfare ofice in his limo and he went to pick up his check!!!!
Nuff said!!!!!!

By Scratcher (65.132.77.125) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 06:43 pm:

Many rappers admit--no they brag about--being on the other side of the law prior to rapping and making records. They thought they were invincible when they were slingin' coke on the block.

Old Dirty Bastard takes the cake. Is he actually on the welfare? He should give that up, unless, of course, he really needs it.

By SisDetroit (68.42.209.170) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 06:45 pm:

Using fireworks in the club in Rhode Island causing over 90 deaths.

By fayette (205.188.209.38) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 06:51 pm:

sis i was just lookin at that,it's so tragic.
it's not safe no where no more.

By fayette (205.188.209.38) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 06:57 pm:

speaking of wrong choices i think rkelly
got a serious problem. he out of one thing
in another.

By Eli (151.197.37.243) on Friday, February 21, 2003 - 07:23 pm:

ODB wanted to show the world that he still collects welfare with no clue by the authorities as to his so called notoriety.
I think that it caught up with him as he is currently incarcerated.
No comment, except that I plead the fifth.

By Eli (151.197.37.243) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 01:44 am:

Mary Wells leaving Motown during the height of her career.

By stephanie (206.214.1.19) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 08:43 pm:

I think one of the WORST career moves ever made is when Phil Spector stopped Ronnie Spector from recording any more records. He could have had a money machine on his hands. I KNOW he was already rich but she had and still has tons of fans.

I dont think Spector should have ever stopped producing although his main issue of success is he had excellent songwriters to accompany him.
Steph

By DramaLJDiva (207.69.94.80) on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 10:05 pm:

I'll keep this short and to-the-point: They obviously can't handle success, fame, and popularity.

By Greg C. (166.84.229.179) on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 03:13 pm:

Understanding that "fame" or however you define it, is finite. There are too many horror stories out there.

Not realizing and/or understanding that it's more "business" than "show".

By Eli (151.197.37.139) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 12:31 am:

One of the biggest artistic mistakes to me was when Billy Paul followed up Me and Mrs Jones with Am I Black Enough For You.
If he wanted to go that route they could have re-released the lovely Ebony Woman, or This is your life to a mass release as it never received its just due the first time around Billy is an original and no one sounds quite like him and he would be much bigger today had they made the right choice at that time.

By dvdmike (65.208.234.61) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 07:13 am:

Billy Paul said in an interview that he literally begged Kenny Gamble not to release "Am I Black Enough For You" as a single, but to no avail. When was released, it did not do well on the R&B or pop charts and he has inconsistent chart success ever since.

By RD (63.188.33.139) on Wednesday, March 05, 2003 - 07:30 am:

Many of Billy Paul's best recordings never made it off his Philadelphia International's albums. For some reason P.I. didn't release his strongest material or just made bad choices. A few escaped as B-sides.

By Beebopman (67.38.92.60) on Thursday, March 06, 2003 - 09:54 pm:

Eli, RD, DVDMike: I would have to agree with all of you regarding Billy Paul. I would listen to each of his alblums when released and wonder how they could miss not pushing and promoting his "good stuff". Far too many to list here. I blame promotion and management for that. With a talent like him and one who appears to be a disiplined artist, it was the total combination for big success. To me Billy Paul should be known beyond the R&B category.

Beebopman