By Ken Sands (65.59.42.226 - 65.59.42.226) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 04:26 pm:

We would like to hear from all our Deroit studio friends.

By M.McLeanTech (64.236.243.243 - 64.236.243.243) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 04:33 pm:

Hi Ken,

Check out the "Technical Discussion with Mike McLean" thread in the archives.

Wired any XL connectors lately?

Mike McLean

By M.McLeanTech (64.236.243.243 - 64.236.243.243) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 04:35 pm:

Ken,

Oops! That thread in not in the archives yet. It is below in the forum.

Mike McLean

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 05:34 pm:

Ken Sands,
Ralph Terrana here. What the hell you up to these days pal. Good to see you here!

By Millie (166.90.228.145 - 166.90.228.145) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 06:04 pm:

Hi Ken! Millie Bostick here...I worked for Ralph Terrana at Motown in the early 70's. I remember you but do you remember me? If not, it's okay!

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 06:42 pm:

Hi Millie,
What's going on sweetie?? Why don't you come out to California to visit me.You and Marge are always on my case about coming to the D.

For those of you who don't know....Ken Sands, besides being a top Motown engineer also spent a considerable amount of time working for United Sound.So if anyone has any questions, I'm sure Ken can answer them for you.

By john lester (213.122.203.185 - 213.122.203.185) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 07:52 pm:

Ken

Hi there and welcome to the Forum......we here all want to learn more about those great sounds that came out of Detroit - and you were part of it. Perhaps you would like to give us a little insight to the songs that you were involved with so that people will have more of an idea.

Let me start by saying that my notes indicate a check letter S and I start my mentioning two songs to you..

It Should Have Been Me and Loves Gone Bad (Underdogs)

By LTLFTC (12.245.225.79 - 12.245.225.79) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 10:44 pm:

Ken also worked at Artie Fields' and worked on many a fine Westbound release (Funkadelic's "Take it To the Stage", Catfish Hodge, The 1st Junie Morrison lp etc) and has a stellar reputation.

By harryweinger (24.130.48.112 - 24.130.48.112) on Tuesday, May 07, 2002 - 11:37 pm:

HEY KEN - welcome!

Ken Sands is one of the recording engineers on WHAT'S GOING ON. How is that for a start? I am sure he can fill in a few more.

By Ken Sands (65.56.189.118 - 65.56.189.118) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:30 am:

Hi Mike,
Can't believe you remembered about the XLR connectors, boy was I embarrassed! I've wired quite a few since then building both recording and radio studios. But mostly working on major sporting events...Red Wings..Tigers...Lions etc. Will check out the "Technical Discussion" asap. Do you still have that funky red beard or has it all gone gray? What are you doing these days? Sure miss you and the Motown gang, you're all like family to me.

By Ken Sands (65.56.189.118 - 65.56.189.118) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:34 am:

Hi Millie! Of course I remember you. The prettiest lady in the recording engineering department! Have you heard from Diane lately?
What are you up to these days?
Ken

By Ken Sands (65.56.189.118 - 65.56.189.118) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:41 am:

Yo Ralph,
Really great to hear from you! Are you still in the "biz?" I am a TV sports audio mixer and part time chief engineer of an AM radio station. Sure would like to get back into recording. I'm a grandpa now. Julie has two daughters and Brian is expecting a son in July. Time sure flies!
Ken

By Millie (65.56.184.236 - 65.56.184.236) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 01:47 am:

Hi Ken! What radio station do you work for? Are you still in Detroit? I've been in radio since '83 and have been with the CHUM Radio Group for over 3 years...we own 89X, 93.9 Literock, 580 Memories CKWW, and CKLW. Congrats on being a grandfather! Oh, thanks for the compliment!

By Ken Sands (65.56.189.118 - 65.56.189.118) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 02:00 am:

John,
Thanks for the welcome...this is a wonderful opportunity to hook up with all of my "old" co-workers and friends. Yes, those were great sounds and I was honored to be a part of it.

The Underdogs were a good group, but unfortunately, I did not record those tunes, Sid McCoy had the code letter "S" before 1967.

The first hit that I worked on was "For Once in My Life" by Stevie Wonder, I put his lead vocal and harmonica on one of the 8 tracks.

Also worked on...Love Child, Don't Let the Joneses Get You Down, What's Going On, My Cherie Amour (Album), Runaway Child, Get Ready (Rare Earth), Indiana Wants Me, Midnight Train to Georgia (Buddha Records), Where Peaceful Waters Flow (Buddha Records), and a whole bunch more...

Had a real musical education at "Motown College" working with some of the best in the business.

By Ken Sands (65.56.189.118 - 65.56.189.118) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 02:06 am:

Hello Harry,
Thank you for the CD. I've listened to it a lot. Sure do miss Marvin, I still can't believe he's gone. Your project certainly has brought back those "magic days" working for Motown. Keep up the "luv."
Ken

By Ken Sands (65.56.189.118 - 65.56.189.118) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 02:11 am:

Hi Millie,
I used to be chief engineer at WOMC and WKRK. I'm now chief for WDEO in Ann Arbor on a part time basis. Really enjoy listening to your stations. What do you do for CHUM?
Ken

By Ken Sands (65.56.189.118 - 65.56.189.118) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 02:17 am:

Thanks, LTLFTC, for the compliment.(Who are you?) Really enjoyed working for Armen Boladian and "Bernie."
Artie Fields was certainly a talented man to work for as well. I remember also doing Gladys Knight's "Where Peaceful Waters Flow" and "Midnight Train to Georgia" for Buddha Records.
Ken

By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 02:25 am:

Hi Ken,
I'm a grandfather also. how did all this happen? We were so young once. Yes, I'm still in the business. I have a small production company, Powerhose Productions. Still working on pianos also.Glad to hear things are going well Ken.

By acooolcat (61.222.95.58 - 61.222.95.58) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 03:32 am:

Ken, a warm welcome from a Detroit music fanatic living in Taiwan.
Can you remember any recordings that you were involved with at United Sound?
Best wishes, Graham

By John Lester (213.122.196.95 - 213.122.196.95) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 07:57 am:

Ken

OOOooo...you worked with Hank Cosby..PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me about working with him...

He's my idol.

Also, if you have time, can you check out a Motown check letter conversation that I started ages ago and tell me if you spot anything that was incorrect.....could you also add your interpretation on how this system changed in 1967..was it on 1st January 1967 and why did it change

By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 02:54 pm:

Hi Ken!

I can offer a little explanation about the use and evolution of the DM number codes.

The purpose was to co-ordinate individual original master tapes of mixes with the safety copies, acetates and master lacquers that were subsequently made from them. The earliest ones I dealt with from before my time, consisted of a letter code for the producer and a number which indicated the reel and the position on the reel of duplicated safety masters. By the time I arrived, the recording engineer and mixing engineer codes had been added to the prefix.

In 1965 it worked like this.

1. An engineer was assigned songs to mix by the quality control department.

2. the engineer turned the mixes into the disk room

3. the disk room cut a "rundown acetate" and turned it into quality control

4. quality control reviewed the rundown and ordered 10" 45 RPM acetates (that were cut hot as if they were masters) and "Duplicate Masters" or "DMs" of the mixes they considered worth keeping as contenders for a release.

5. The disk room then leadered the mixes that were to be kept, trashed the rest and created a reference slip filling in the mix engineer code, the temporary number from the rundown acetate and the settings chosen to create a 10" 45 master disk. This reel and the acetates were turned in to quality control. Quality control added the producer and recording engineer codes and sent the reel to be duplicated in the studio.

6. In the studio a recording engineer made a copy of these reels of masters. In 1965 this was at 7.5 i.p.s. on one or two tracks of a three track machine. This engineer filled in the numerical portion of the DM number which consisted of a "DM" reel number, the track numbers of the three-track and the position on the reel. {The reason this low quality format was chosen was because it was assumed that a new first-generation mix would be created matching that on the tape if an original master was lost and no acetate of it was available to serve as a guide.)

6. Quality control then evaluated the ten inch 45 rpm acetates and generally ordered "remasters" which were new mixes incorporating their suggestions. Occasionaly this would extend to ordering changes in a vocal or even additional background vocals or instruments.

7. This process continued until quality control was convinced we had the best possible performance, arrangement and mono mix of the song.

8. For stereo albums, this "ultimate" mono mix would be used as a guide to create a mix in stereo.

Later on, we switched from using the 1/2" 3-track duplicate masters to 1/4" duplicates at 15 i.p.s. and the numbering was changed to indicate if it was mono or stereo using the letters M and S. The formula became:

producer code-

recording engineer code-

mix engineer code-

reel number-

mono or stereo code-

position on reel

By John Lester (213.122.201.46 - 213.122.201.46) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 09:27 pm:

BOB

THAT GOES IN MY FILE FOR EVER MORE....THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

By Ken Sands (63.212.148.148 - 63.212.148.148) on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 11:15 pm:

Hi Bob,
Good to hear from you...you are right about the DM codes...I inherited "S" in 1967 when I joined the studio engineering staff. How have you been?
In the business???Where?

By Ken Sands (63.212.148.148 - 63.212.148.148) on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 12:50 am:

Hank was the first producer I worked with at Golden World(Motown Studio B) on "For Once in my
Life",(lead vocal and harmonica). "Cos" was very
kind and "even handed" when we worked with Ron Miller the writer on Stevies vocals for the album.
Being a young white session engineer at the time, I was a little nervous, to say the least...Hank
showed me friendship when I needed it...As powerful as he was in the A&R department, he took time to befriend me.

By Bob Olhsson (68.53.120.100 - 68.53.120.100) on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 05:00 am:

I never learned to do anything else!

I moved to San Francisco in 1972 and lived there until we moved to Nashville TN about a year ago. I did everything from live jazz broadcasts to nearly ten years working for a couple of the original San Francisco rock bands. For the past ten years I've primarily been doing CD mastering and wrangling computers for a couple sound editors in the film business.

We moved to Nashville because of the remarkable number of top songwriters and musicians who are now located here. Where else can you hear Bob Babbitt play a bunch of Motown tunes on an upright bass behind a woman who could easily hold her own with Aretha Franklin?

Most of my mastering work came with me so it's going even better here than I had hoped for.

By M.McLeanTech (63.212.133.80 - 63.212.133.80) on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 05:34 am:

Bob,

How does your wonderful wife like Nashville?

Mike McLean

By john lester (213.1.132.169 - 213.1.132.169) on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 07:39 am:

Ken

Did you work on Stevie's Xmas album...."Someday At Christmas"

Do you recall working on "Give Your Love" on My Cherie Amour LP

By M.McLeanTech (63.212.137.138 - 63.212.137.138) on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 08:18 am:

Dear Ken,

Thank you for your warm response. Sorry that I brought back such memories.

I remember sitting with you in a car and talking about alternators and big selenum rectirier stacks of plates on the fender wells of police cars, and amature radio "moble" operators.

Can you help me? What became of Vincent J. Shensky?

I understand that he worked at Motown.

Cheers,

Mike McLean

By Keith Rylatt (195.92.194.18 - 195.92.194.18) on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 06:12 pm:

Ken A big welcome to the site. Can you or anyone out there help me locate Arnell Carmichael??? PLEASE!! As you may know Arnell was part of Raydio along side his brother and Ray Parker JR. But of more importance to me - his father was the late, great Mike A Hanks. I desperately need to contact Arnell. I have spoken to Ray Parker and he has lost contact. Thanks Keith.

By bobby lewis (68.41.162.143 - 68.41.162.143) on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 02:10 am:

hi ken, bobby lewis here
i wrote you a substanial message a few days ago
but i thought i had sent it but i think after
preview, you have to hit send again. which i didn't do. i'm new to this stuff. anyway, glad
you have surfaced on this forum. i have many happy memories of your enginnering skills when we
recorded the band at cloudborn studios. i am still working a lot these days. mostly festivals
and park concerts. this is a very interesting
site,and i'm sure your background will add a lot to it. well thats it. just wanted to say hey.
if you get a chance, say hey back on the bobby-
lewis headliners site on this forum.
take care ken bobby lewis