By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:33 pm:
| By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Sunday, July 21, 2002 - 08:33 pm: |
Hey Joe,
It appears your name can evoke musical conversation on a number of topics. Please stay with us. We love that you are here.
| By fenderpbass66 (151.203.9.211 - 151.203.9.211) on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 04:41 pm: |
Joe, Who played the guitar intro on The Spinners "Its A Shame"?
Also, on Fever in the Funkhouse, are you playing the back beat?
| By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 08:43 pm: |
Dennis coffey played on 'fever'and 'it's a shame'
but i am not too sure about Joe's contributions on either of these great songs,Maybe else someone remembers.
| By Russ Terrana (198.178.8.81 - 198.178.8.81) on Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 10:35 pm: |
I have to add my 2 cents in about Joe. when I was with the sunliners, playing guitar, Joe was my mentor. I was always amazed at his style and talents. When I went to Motown, I recorded Joe with the funk brothers countless times in the studio. If you look up "Great Guy" in the dictionary, you'll probably see a picture of Joe.
| By jojazz1213 (68.43.173.239 - 68.43.173.239) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 12:42 am: |
Hi Ralph, thanks againg for the kind words....
Hi fenderpbass66, I don't remember the songs that you mentioned ...
Whenever I played a session, I never knew what was expected of
me... I played a bit of everything.. What I enjoyed most, was playing
the bass line with Jamerson......Most producers wanted me to strum ala
latin style, unless a figure was needed, then they would sing the line
they wanted me to play... I think at one time or another I played
back beat for every producer at Motown... In the biginning chord
sheets were used.. As time went on we used written charts for
everything... To get a song recorded the producer had to have a
title for the song, if they were not sure of a title, they made one up for
the session..
I hope this will explain a bit of what we had to do...
Joe Messina
| By HW (68.37.217.106 - 68.37.217.106) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 01:23 am: |
I'll double-check but I believe the guitar intro of IT'S A SHAME is by Robert White
| By LTLFTC (12.245.225.79 - 12.245.225.79) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 01:45 am: |
That HAS to be two guitars on that intro, right?
Steve K.
| By Ritchie (62.254.0.6 - 62.254.0.6) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 09:28 am: |
It definitely is two guitars on the intro - on the stereo mix, they are panned left and right. On the mono single, it sounds like one incredible guitar part!
| By LTLFTC (12.245.225.79 - 12.245.225.79) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 02:04 pm: |
Yeah , I haven't heard it for years, but I remember playing guitar in a cover band, working on that intro and the singers saying "Naw , Steve, That's not quite it" and thinking "geez, these are road-tested working musicians-they can't tell that's two guitars"? I was pleased I came as close as I did to nailing it.
Steve K
| By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 05:29 pm: |
They seemed to do a lot of songs using two guitars in unison or maybe an octave apart.This occasionally sounds like a 12 string to the casual listener,i guess the idea was to make the guitar sound more substanstial.In some cases a single elecric guitar can sound quite thin without distortion. Don't forget a lot of this happened before effects pedals like chorus,phasers,flangers were readily available.
(allthough Dennis Coffey was using a wah wah pedal)
It's a tribute to the Funks that they came up with innovative techniques like these before effects pedals were commonplate.
| By Sue (63.85.105.9 - 63.85.105.9) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 05:51 pm: |
Dennis C. has "It's a Shame" listed in the discography of his book as a song he played on, so he can probably shed light on who else played on the track.
| By fenderpbass66 (151.203.3.225 - 151.203.3.225) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 07:32 pm: |
Joe,
Its always good to be able to put a face with a name. To follow, photos of SITSOM in D.C. last December of you and I and Anthony McKnight and yourself.
And thanks for addressing my earlier question.
/image{joe&me}
/image{joe&anthony}
| By fenderpbass66 (151.203.3.225 - 151.203.3.225) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 07:35 pm: |
| By john Lester (213.122.201.246 - 213.122.201.246) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 08:02 pm: |
Nearly there...keep trying....
I can tell you that you feel realy great when you see the images actually on screen!!
| By david, glasgow, scotland (62.252.128.5 - 62.252.128.5) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 08:19 pm: |
fenderbass66
In the first instance the slash command was the wrong way around.
In the second instance the size of the fikes may have been greater than 50k.
If you get stuck further e-mail me the images.
| By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 08:30 pm: |
I'm pulling for you John. You BAD!!!
| By Dennis Coffey (64.12.97.11 - 64.12.97.11) on Wednesday, July 24, 2002 - 11:17 pm: |
Hi Soulboy. I think it was me and the funks playing on It's a Shame. I think Stevie ended up playing drums. I did the intro probably with Eddie Willis. It could have also been Robert. It's really difficult to remember so far back when I played on so many sessions.
Dennis
| By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 05:43 pm: |
It still amazes me how much talent there was(is) in Guitar section.I now understand why it's difficult for people like Dennis and Joe to remember individual parts they played on,the shear quantity of music they recorded during that era was amazing.
If i have a personal favourite it would have to be 'Cloud nine' i was stunned when i first saw the trailer to film. I didn't think that guitar part could ever be re-constructed true to it's original form - I was wrong.
| By SteveS (209.219.207.4 - 209.219.207.4) on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 07:01 pm: |
Soulboy,
I'm not sure if this comes across on the trailer, but I noticed something in Cloud Nine in the movie that absolutely killed me. At the end of the stop time breaks Joe plays several bars of 16th note tremolo perfectly evenly, just as it's done on the record. He's playing way up high, perfectly in tune and with no effects to hide behind. The thing is, guitar players used to practice tremolo as a technique many years ago, but it's pretty much vanished today. I doubt if many contemporary players could match Joe's performance in the movie, and then think about the fact that he put the guitar down around 1972 and picked it up again last year to make the movie.
| By john_coe (12.2.233.107 - 12.2.233.107) on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 07:10 pm: |
HW,
I think you mentioned Robert White as the guitarist for the intro of It's A Shame on the Classic Motown Hits Compilation.
| By Dennis Coffey (64.12.97.11 - 64.12.97.11) on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 07:42 pm: |
HW. They also mentioned Eddie Willis for the intro on Just my Imagination. That was me.
Dennis Coffey
| By Gary Rosen (12.234.95.0 - 12.234.95.0) on Thursday, July 25, 2002 - 08:02 pm: |
I asked this question before, but I think it got lost in the transition between threads. Who played guitar on Shorty Long's "Devil With the Blue Dress" (later covered by Mitch Ryder)? The prominent bluesy lead guitar is very untypical (IMO) of most Motown records though I'm sure all their great guitarists were capable of that style.
- Gary Rosen
| By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Friday, July 26, 2002 - 03:03 pm: |
in my opinion that solo is played by someone with a strong jazz background. Through most of the song the guitar is like a blues guitar lead of it's day,BUT there are couple of jazz like phrases in there which suggests the guitarist is of the multi-talented variety.
I reckon it could be the same guy who played the brief solo on mary wells' 'my guy'.Is that Joe messina??
| By Gary Rosen (12.234.95.0 - 12.234.95.0) on Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 05:29 am: |
You could be right, Soulboy. The guitar in "Devil" as well as the little solo in "My Guy" has a "sharper" tone characteristic of the Fender Telecaster Messina played in contrast to the intro to "My Girl" which of course was played by Robert White. White played hollow-bodied Gibson guitars which have a mellower tone (somewhat of a generalization but not a bad one).
If you listen to the very beginning of "My Guy" you can also hear a guitar with a tone more like that of "My Girl". As we know, producers would often use all three of the main guitarists (pre-Dennis Coffey), Messina, White, and Eddie Willis, on recordings.
- Gary Rosen
| By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 11:38 am: |
Another song i should mention is 'try it baby' by the late great Marvin Gaye.The solo in that record also has a similar kind of feel, and was recorded in the same era (about 64),and once again that sounds like a telecaster.
That 'my girl' guitar sound does have a mellower tone,doesn't have the cutting edge of the Telecaster, but all same very disinctive and a nice sound. You can hear this sound on other records by the tempts. (is this the sound of Robert White?)
| By HW (68.37.217.106 - 68.37.217.106) on Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 06:21 pm: |
Dennis - thank you for the clarification on Just My Imagination - one of my faves
| By jazdrmr (64.233.238.199 - 64.233.238.199) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 02:53 pm: |
Hey Joe, what's been going on. Nothing has happening in here for some time now. Me must keep Joe Messina thread going and going and going, just like the Energizer rabbit. Joe you go man.
| By SteveS (209.219.207.4 - 209.219.207.4) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 03:11 pm: |
When you see "Standing in the Shadows" you'll probably notice that Joe probably does less talking than any of the Funks. That's Joe being Joe, but it shouldn't obscure the fact that he was at Motown longer than any of the Funks in the movie, and maybe longer than any of the Funks, period. He started in 59, before Jamerson, Eddie or Robert, and with Joe Hunter on piano, and was there till the last day, every single day there was a session. He doesn't get too involved in the "who played on what games" we are all so interested in, because it's all a blur to him, having also played on most of the commercial and TV work that was going on at the time, as well as working with his own groups and others in the clubs. In the 60's he pretty much worked around the clock on a schedule that even today's busiest musicians would find dizzying.
| By Ralph (209.240.222.130 - 209.240.222.130) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 03:29 pm: |
Steve,
I think you just summed up Joe Messina in one fact filled paragraph. Very well said.
| By soulboy (213.105.242.198 - 213.105.242.198) on Monday, August 19, 2002 - 03:45 pm: |
I'd like to know if Joe still listens to all the great music he made at hitsville all them years ago. If he has any personal favourites.